BS: Cervical Spine Surgery

Subject: Tech: Cervical Spine Surgery
From: DonMeixner
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 05:07 PM

Hi Friends,

I need to have some spine surgery to relieve a nerve branch on my left side. i am told it is common and most often very successful. A cervical fusion and plating.

Anyone had this experience?

Don

Subject: RE: Tech: Cervical Spine Surgery
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 05:41 PM

Whew! Good luck to you.

Subject: RE: Tech: Cervical Spine Surgery
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 05:55 PM

Look kids, don't do this at home!

I had RSI - which eventually did not need surgery.

Seriously though - all surgery - cutting into the body - does involve some degree of risk - even from the anaesthetic.

But you HAVE to trust your surgeon, and they do really want to help you - they have studied the operation and the risks, and want to minimize them.

I probably should have had fusion for my back, but my excellent GP doctor gave this partly humorous advice. There are 3 possibilities -
1) no change
2) worse off
3) improvement.

After you have decided that you can bear the situation no more, you have 2 chances out of 3 of things not getting worse!

Best wishes for you.

Robin

Subject: RE: Tech: Cervical Spine Surgery
From: Tangledwood
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 06:51 PM

A friend recently had surgery on her lower back to relieve nerve pressure. It was partly a disc problem, partly bone growth on a vertebra applying pressure to the spinal column.
The relief from nerve pain was immediate. She says it was a bit disconcerting - you expect pain to fade as things improve but this was like flicking a switch.
There is still quite a bit of discomfort from the op which will take a couple of months to ease. This is due to the extent that major muscles had to be displaced during the op. I imagine that there would a difference between neck and lower back in this regard.

Subject: RE: Tech: Cervical Spine Surgery
From: catspaw49
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 06:52 PM

Sorry Don...Although I have had back surgery, it was a laminectomy in the lumbar region and not as complex as a fusion. Besides, my specialty is Cardiology. LOL   

Seriously, I do have two friends who have had what you're contemplating and they each are much better off. Robin is right however as some don't have the same success. Even with the laminectomy, a woman whom I knew had one within a week of so of mine. Both of us were almost completely unable to walk. I came out fine but she has had problems for the past 20 years. She's better by far than she was but has problems with numbness.

I think like amny other surgical procedures, orthopedics has had a quantum leap forward in the past 20 years and every year brings on newer and better techniques.

Let us know what's happening.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Tech: Cervical Spine Surgery
From: Art Thieme
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 06:53 PM

Don,
First of all, get other opinions.

All through the 1990s I had spinal surgerys. Three of the four were cervical. Two of those involved disc replacement on 4 vertabrae--one with plating.

Before that, the numbness in my hands, back into the early 1980s, had been diagnosed as carpal tunnel syndrome. ------- In 1997 Mayo Clinic figured out I'd had Multiple Sclerosis--possibly all throughout the 20 years I'd had symptoms which the spinal surgery was meant to correct. (It din't.)

Good sir, good luck. At best, it's a crapshoot!

Art

Subject: RE: Tech: Cervical Spine Surgery
From: catspaw49
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 06:55 PM

Tangled....Your friend had a laminectomy that I mentioned in my previous post and I know exactly what she meant!! I was mean as a snake post-op until they got me out of bed and I was able to see that the pain was gone and I stood straight and could walk.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Tech: Cervical Spine Surgery
From: Art Thieme
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 07:08 PM

Between the fusion surgeries I had 2 laminectomies. One cervical and one lumbar.

A neurologist is where I should have gone first. The MS might've been found years earlier. But the carpal tunnel surgeon, before operating, figured I had something bigger going on. So he sent me to the neurosurgeons---and the rest is history. Nobody ever even mentioned MS as a possibility.

Again, good luck! It seems doctors often diagnose only with the quite narrow tunnel-vision of their own particular expertise.

Art

Subject: RE: Tech: Cervical Spine Surgery
From: Melissa
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 08:06 PM

I had the weirdest thing a while back.
A neurologist set me up to get a batch of blood drawn and an mri.

When I went to set a date for getting blood pulled, I was told that it couldn't be scheduled because the neurologist didn't write down the diagnosis.
Hell, silly me, I'd been thinking that he probably wanted bloodwork so he could make a diagnosis!?

Same thing when I went for the mri. I was asked what he had diagnosed (and just agreed with the suggestion..think she asked if he thought I had a pinched nerve)

I'll be going to see a neurosurgeon next week.
I haven't had spinal surgery, but this thread sure caught my eye.

Good luck, Don.
If you talk to the other patients in the waiting room, you may be able to get a pretty good idea of how satisfied his patients are with the operations they got. With doctors being so specialized, most of the folks sitting there are probably there for the same thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Cervical Spine Surgery
From: DonMeixner
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 11:47 PM

The Neuro I saw said based on the MRI he would do the fusion but if I wanted I should try PT first. As I work with PTs each day I have unending access to therapy. My surgery is scheduled for May 11.

I have spoken with a couple people who have had this surgery. When asked if they'd do it again they all agreed, in a heart beat. Right now I will agree to anything that will put an end to thi pain.

D

Subject: RE: BS: Cervical Spine Surgery
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 11:49 PM

If you can find a good osteopath well-trained in deep tissue/bone manipulations you might be able to avoid surgery all together. I could barely walk for a couple of years due to damage to my feet. The foot doc wanted to do surgery; my doc and I said no way. I tried different shoes for awhile which sort of helped, but it was still very painful. Then I met Dr. W who is a magician when it comes to working on the soft tissue and bones, getting them in the right places, etc. It may take several treatments and maintenance, but OMT, osteopathic manipulation therapy (not the hard "popping" kind), can work wonders when done properly. My feet are one hundred percent better thanks to her. I am also amazed at her knowledge of muscles, ligaments, bones, etc. and the slightest adjustment to them when I've made some stupid move and pinched something off. Good luck to you, regardless, Don.

Subject: RE: BS: Cervical Spine Surgery
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 12:33 AM

Yes, I had Shiatsu massage by a brilliant lady - she had been a potter before too - which eased some pain supposedly due to spinal nerve pinch, and muscle spasm. Some slight pain, well more discomfort really, at first as she moved a few things around - slightly - but in the end much better results than any physio I have ever had.

If you can get a good lady try that. The massage therapy, I mean.... :-O

Subject: RE: BS: Cervical Spine Surgery
From: DonMeixner
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 08:05 AM

So I should ask a woman to rub me the right way?

Don

Subject: RE: BS: Cervical Spine Surgery
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 08:36 AM

Never hurt me... and then she is on top anyway, and ... oooooo, I think I hurt myself - bye!

Subject: RE: BS: Cervical Spine Surgery
From: olddude
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 09:18 AM

Unless you are absolutely sure this is the only way to go and there are no other options then yes. I had 5 operations on my back and one on my neck ... started out with a laminectomy in the 80's then 4 more in the 90's with fusion, plating and instrumentation (rods). Then late 90's full plating, fusion, on my neck with instrumentation (rods) ...

It doesn't stop me from doing anything but I do have chronic pain ... but the pain is far less then being completely disabled like I was. the short answer for me, surgery is the last resort when all else fails. Most disk problems clear up by themselves and it takes months for it to cool down. Some will not, unless there is stability issues with the spine, or floaters(broken disk fragments in the spinal canal) I am not a big fan of surgery. It will cut down the pain quite a bit but what you are left with is what you are left with forever. I lost all feeling in my fingers from the neck. Lost most of the feeling in my upper right leg from the back ... No fun at all.

After the surgery, the risk of a pulmonary embolism is very high, make sure you don't lay there but get up and move even though it hurts. Had that happen also, nearly killed me

Subject: RE: BS: Cervical Spine Surgery
From: olddude
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 09:28 AM

One other point, The docs never tell you that when then do a fusion with plating, you always end up with another operation in 5 + years. The fusion fixes the disk problem but puts added strain on the disks above and below the fusion. Eventually they pop, so another operation is needed to fix them, and so it goes.   I know of no one that only had one back operation from fusion. They are always multiples when the other disks go.   

Now thing have gotten much better since my last operation in the late 90's ... recovery time is far faster, techniques are far less invasive, but fusion is fusion and the other disks eventually go. Spinal surgery should be done as a last resort when all else fails. I have seen people in agony for nearly a year only to have it completely clear up ... just use some caution ...


good luck

For me it was the right decision because the stability of the spine was not there anymore. I had to ... but I now have to eat pain meds daily ... still doesn't stop me from doing anything. I hike, I fish, I play. I also pay a price but I have become use to pain ...

Subject: RE: BS: Cervical Spine Surgery
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 11:15 AM

Well Don, you were looking for the "Voice of Experience" and Dan came along to give it!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Cervical Spine Surgery
From: MikeL2
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 11:57 AM

Hi Don

There is some good advice above.

Some years ago I had back pain problems.

I saw my GP who sent me to a consultant and so on.....

Eventually before anything was actually done I had received at least three different medical diagnoses from as many consultants. I experienced scans, Xrays,prods, pricks (!!) and all kinds of other investigations. I was told my pain was caused by an old rugby injury and advancing old age...!!!!

Two consultants strongly advised surgery the other advised rest followed by an exercise regime that would be set up free at my local hospital.

I went for this choice - I was given all kinds of physiotherapy followed by hydrotherapy, again at our local hospital.

This took about a year in all but was not any more painful than I was experiencing anyway and with the therapies things started to improve.

The hydrotherapy was extremely enjoyable and productive. So much so that I recently swam 5000 metres for the hospital charity fund.

I still get very slight back-ache on occasions, especially in winter but nothing to hinder me in any way.

So my advice would be to get other opinions and try anything that seems reasonable if it avoids surgery.

Beware though - Back cases differ widely and my own may have been completely different to yours.

Hope this helps

MikeL2 - just been out walking all day !!

Subject: RE: BS: Cervical Spine Surgery
From: olddude
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 12:37 PM

One small issue if you do have the surgery, flying in an airplane is agony, there is no gentle way to describe it. I just got home from Wisconsin. The g forces from landing and takeoffs and the pressure changes always brings me to the brink. I take a bunch of pain meds so that I can sleep my way through it but I tell you that pain is special. Today it is like someone bashed my arms and legs with a ball bat. It will clear up in a day or so but I am eating pain pills like candy ... I don't say this to scare you. I just hate the docs saying wow you will be 100 % playing football again ... No .. there is some bad down sides to surgery on the spine, big time bad ... however, for me it was have the surgery or don't walk ... on the neck it was have the surgery or be paralysed ... so I had no choice. Spaw has my phone number, feel free to call anytime.   Spaw is an absolute expert on hearts and knows more than the docs about heart disease, me I am pretty good with backs since I sure have been there ...

Subject: RE: BS: Cervical Spine Surgery
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 06:34 PM

Actually TWO things that helped me come back from the brink where I was considering surgery, and reduced need for pain meds.

ONE
Weird, but since I had L5-S1 mainly, a way to 'stretch the disks'. Flat on a firm surface like a floor.
Middle of back flat on floor - push down. Knees up at first.
Take your time to get the flat of the back down first.
Now the end point is to get BOTH knees flat on floor - back of knees as far down as possible, while keeping middle of back down.
This is NOT possible at first, so DON'T PUSH IT!!!!
Try one knee at first, keeping the other bent, alternate. Remember the end point of the exercise.
Go as far as JUST pushing the limit at first. Repeat a few times a day, don't overdo it, especially at first - you are putting a massive physio traction type stretch in that L5-S1 area. The body needs time for the stretch to work, and assimilate. You can do this gently at first when you are bored - hey you are at the point of physical incapacitation by pain, so what else you want to do! ?-)
When you get to the end point, you have achieved much, so reward yourself.
Now Maintenance - repeat as often as necessary without strain.


TWO
"Half Flys"
I discovered this in the gym while doing strength training for better muscle tone, not bulk - it works the spinal rotators - in isolation, mine were so weak, but I didn't know it. It seems to hold everything together, and gave me more spinal support and reduced pain. This takes quite a few weeks to get up to considerable kilo amounts. Take it steady too!

Lie on a weight bench, feet on floor for initial support - you can improvise at home, even the floor at first. Eventually you want to get your feet off the floor and just hold yourself on the bench with your spinal rotators, even getting your arms below the level of the bench. This builds upper trunk & shoulder muscles too and is a useful part of a slight workout anyway. The flys can also be done half sitting - why the weight bench is useful.

Now - at first no weights if you want - your arms HAVE weight anyway - use no more than a kilo at first - at home you can grab soup cans, etc. I eventually got up to 3 Kg dumbbells easily - 5 Kg was an effort, but controllable. That's all you really need anyway, it's just that you can do MORE REPS in batches for better strength - and aerobic capacity too.

Hold your arms closed on your chest, then you do 'flys' - at first full flys, to strengthen your arms muscles & joints - you just open your arms out to the sides and back - try this standing too, it's good, but doesn't do much for the spinal rotators.

Now the 'half flys' - just one arm at a time! Don't fall off the bench! As your spinal rotators build, you can get your feet off the floor and build the weights - don't force or rush - you may just do more damage!

Worked for me
Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Cervical Spine Surgery
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 07:30 AM

Very interested to hear what has worked for other people as I have problems with my L5. I seem to have the disk slip occasionaly but so far it has always gone straight back into place (I did have a course of traction appointments once befoe it felt right).

Subject: RE: BS: Cervical Spine Surgery
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 07:39 AM

Strange, my last post posted itself before I finished!

Apparently I have extra growths of bone around the top and bottom of each vertebra.When I have a problem with the disk I have to take anti-inflamatories quickly or else it causes a prolonged problem.
I find that standing still for long periods causes pain in the back but walking helps. This is annoying as I'm spending quite a bit of time up scaffolding in my spare(laughs) time at the monment, re-pointing the house. I can't move around a lot up there!
My cousin has much worse problems than me, with spondulosis, so I think of myself as lucky by comparison.
Is it coincidence that I cannot hold my arms up outstretched for long? I found this out when I was dragged along to a tai chi class at Ely festival one year. Lost out on that exercise but when we were told to breath in and out slowly for twenty breaths I was only up to seven when the instructor thought that we had all finished!

Subject: RE: BS: Cervical Spine Surgery
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 07:48 AM

"standing still for long periods causes pain in the back but walking helps."

Sitting/standing = bad - moving around slowly/walking = good.

That is not uncommon.

Subject: RE: BS: Cervical Spine Surgery
From: olddude
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 08:46 AM

bbcw
what you have with the extra bone is called a bone spur. they eventually rupture the disk. Mine blew my neck out. That was the biggest reason for the neck plating, fusion and rods ... Be careful

Subject: RE: BS: Cervical Spine Surgery
From: katlaughing
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 10:51 AM

When you are standing still be sure not to lock your knees; that does more to cause pain in the lower back than anything!Also, maybe it is different for men, but as a woman I would be very careful about lying down on a weight bench with my feet on the floor...wrong kind of pull on lower back,

Subject: RE: BS: Cervical Spine Surgery
From: DonMeixner
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 11:13 AM

Thanks to everybody who has offered advice or an experience. Lots of food for thought. It is interesting to note that most of the replies are about back injuries and not cervical spine problems. The best advice is good for both problems.

Get a second opinion.

Which I shall.

Thanks everybody

Don