BS: My New Video Commentary on Festivals

Subject: BS: My New Video Commentary on Festivals
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 07:16 AM

Here it is hot off the presses....

Humor!

Enjoy!
Grinding a few axes!
Off to the Folk Festival

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/6448999/

Conrad

Subject: RE: BS: My New Video Commentary on Festivals
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 06:11 PM

my word so much interest~! Maybe its because I did not mention Fascists
See....changing topics doesnt work.

Fascists and lefties deserve each other two sides of the same coin and no middle ground equally goofy.....

CB

Subject: RE: BS: My New Video Commentary on Festivals
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 06:30 PM

No, Konrad, it's about you.

Subject: RE: BS: My New Video Commentary on Festivals
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 23 Apr 10 - 08:05 AM

No its about festivals@@#@@#@##

Subject: RE: BS: My New Video Commentary on Festivals
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Apr 10 - 02:58 PM

The first folk festivals I ever attended were in Seattle during the 1950s. They were held concurrently with the yearly "East 42nd Street Arts Festivals." Concerts, workshops, and song fests. They were free of charge.

Then I attended the Berkeley Folk Festivals in the early 1960s. Workshops during the day, concerts in the evenings. I heard—and had a chance to meet and talk with—singers and folklorists such as Peggy Seeger, Ewan MacColl, Sandy Paton, John Lomax Jr, Archie Green, Charles Seeger, Sam Hinton, The New Lost City Ramblers, Jean Ritchie,, Almeda Riddle,, Joan Baez, Frank Warner, Jean Redpath, Marais and Miranda, Lighinin' Hopkins, Mississippi John Hurt, Mance Lipscomb, Merritt Herring, and many more. These festivals started on a Wednesday and ran though the Memorial Day weekend.. $15.00 for the entire festival. Food and drink? You were on your own. There were plenty of restaurants within a block or two of the University of California campus.

The Nortwest Folklife Festivals, held every Memorial Day weekend in Seattle since the mid-1970s are free of charge. As far as food and drink are concerned, there are concession stands on the Center grounds, or you can go to any of a number of pubs and restaurants in the area. Or you can bring your own. What you spend on consumables is entirely up to you. And if you want to purchase some of the performers' CDs, they usually cost a bit less than you'd pay for them in a record store and no on is holding a gun to your head making you buy anything. They're still going strong and they're still free of charge.

Been there. Done that. Sorry, Conrad. You're complaining about a problem that doesn't exist.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: My New Video Commentary on Festivals
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 24 Apr 10 - 04:16 AM

One word *#1 PHEASANT*

CRAP!

But then of course we all go to real festivals, so, unlike you, we know what a real festival is, I've been attending 'em since 1954, and it ain't remotely like your picture.

Thank God!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: My New Video Commentary on Festivals
From: Beer
Date: 24 Apr 10 - 07:38 AM

I enjoyed watching your work but I certainly hope this is not the case where your from. Here in Canada(Quebec in my case)I have been running festivals for 7 years and they have always been very friendly, cheap to attend, lots of food, no plastic sales at the concession stands, only hand made items. And last I would not book a musician if he/she expected to be apart from the audience. It is expected that the musician will have time to walk around and talk to the paying customers.
Beer (adrien)

Subject: RE: BS: My New Video Commentary on Festivals
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 24 Apr 10 - 08:03 PM

Sorry I guess you just have to live here (however I have heard that some of the same problems in the UK especially in regard to growing popularity of fusion)

Yes here festival bands play and leave. They always claim they have another gig except that I find that they simply hang out at the hotel pool.

Handmade items yes some but most are hand made in china if that counts.

Of course there are exceptions glad you have found them. We only have one free folk festival Washington Folk Music Society however I generally give them a $20. donation because I got started going for free when at University. Even there one of my favorite bands composed of several good friends played and vanished strange because I was there with my artcar and horn hats as a favor for them.....

High gate prices especially for families limits the numbers of people who can afford to attend A simple math problem. Once people pay for admission and food there is nothing left for cds or anything else. All the vendor prices are higher than the same thing elsewhere.
Conrad

Subject: RE: BS: My New Video Commentary on Festivals
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 24 Apr 10 - 08:27 PM

Peasant, Forgive Don First...all his posts are all about him!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: My New Video Commentary on Festivals
From: Beer
Date: 24 Apr 10 - 08:36 PM

The price thing I always insisted that it is kept reeeeeeeel low. Like $15.00 a day. Two stages of music from noon to mid night.
Maybe those reading this are not familiar with some ot these names but i have had David Francey, Ron Hynes, Bruce Murdoch, Penny Lang, Garnet Rogers, Bill Garrett and Sue Lothrop and Jessie Winchester just to name a few. So in my case it is not the money that keeps folks away. I worked all year lining up acts to get 200/300 people. No more. I now run (a long with my partner)a coffee house every Friday evening and i get at least 70 people for every performance. An audience that is truly appreciative and a fellow getting older who has found a niche that is very easy to control with a lot less work.
What the hell am I talking about. Must have a another sip of wine i guess.
ad.

Subject: RE: BS: My New Video Commentary on Festivals
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Apr 10 - 08:47 PM

(shut up, GfS) The Alaska Folk Festival is funded in its entirety by memberships (start at $15 for a basic membership) and the sale of merchandise. The merchandise is all imprinted with portions of the official annual poster and include T-shirts, sweatshirts, mugs, pins, instrument straps, trivets, posters, and other stuff.

Entry during the 7-day event is free, and only the Guest artist(s) is paid for performing. The Guest Artist's travel and room are also paid for and there are lots of perks for them, such as flight-seeing, fishing or boat excursions, whale watching, being taken home for dinner, etc. For that they are expected to perform two different 45-minute sets on stage and on Saturday and Sunday host and facilitate a workshop in their area of expertise.

I don't recognize anything #1 Peasant describes.

Subject: RE: BS: My New Video Commentary on Festivals
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 08:11 AM

Yes of course there are exceptions to everything.

Ebbbie I can point out at least twenty folk festivals here that the video is modeled after exactly.

You seem to be doing a great job.

IMHO it is also important to keep concerts within festivals small.

Keep the size of a stage capacity to 20- -30 when that fills up open another stage then another then another easy enough.

have the performers play a few sets so that when stages are full folks can catch them later at another.

Another problem for me is the dominance of entertainment over transmission. Steps can be taken- printed song sheets, etc....that actually plug the visitor into the tradition extending the experience greatly.

Small groups for celtic music and english traditional are more appropriate the personal qualities of the experience can be appreciated giving it all more meaning.

Good to hear of the membership subscription strategy. We need to get as many people in the doors of a festival without the filter caused by the admission fee. Food prices also must be attractive. If all the musicians and volunteers got together food could be cooked by them and offered at cost. This leaves money in the pockets of visitors for cds and other wares benefiting the musicians directly.

If one must have an admission fee one must try to treat the visitor to a special vending experience. Wares should be offered at prices lower than outside thus making the event even more attractive. More often the prices are higher because of high vendor fees combined with fish in the barrel profit taking.

Conrad

Subject: RE: BS: My New Video Commentary on Festivals
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 02:46 PM

GfS, you are a nincompoop.

Regarding my comments on folk festivals, I want it clearly understood that I am not just making wild guesses (like you do chronically), I am speaking from personal experience. If I didn't offer some substantiation of what I said, you'd jump my case for that!

So unless you have something intelligent to say, just bugger off!

####

Now, Conrad,

If you don't like the way folk festivals are run in your locality, do what others do. In my locality (no, GfS, this is not about me, but I did participate in the process), a couple of different "folk music" organizations refused to sponsor performances by very creditable singers of traditional songs, in one case, refusing a singer and folklorist with admirable credits because he didn't write his own songs.

Rather incensed by this, a number of people (including me—sorry, blowing my own horn again!) organized—or rather, resurrected—a folklore society that had existed in the 1950s for the purpose of collecting local traditional material, and sponsoring performances by singers of traditional material.

This resurrected organization was put together by three people:   Stewart Hendrickson (posts here occasionally as "Stewart"), Bob Nelson ("Deckman"), and (modest blush) myself.

The Pacific Northwest Folklore Society

The result is that there are now two folklore societies in this area, presenting a much broader spectrum of folk music (both "contemporary" and traditional) than existed a few years ago. And the PNW Folklore Society is making a great deal of local folk music and folklore than ever before readily available to anyone who is interested it. Browse through the web site.

At the same time, Bob Nelson is heading up the collection of a massive amount of material and is organizing, digitizing, and archiving it in preparation to make it available to, again, anyone who is interested.

I, in turn, am writing up a history of the folk music "scene" in this area from the early 1940s until now.

Conrad (or anybody), if you don't like the way things are going in your locality, get together with a few like-minded friends and organize your own.

C'mon! Quit complaining and get cracking!

Don Firth

P. S. By the way, GfS, what are you doing that will be of lasting value to anyone?

Subject: RE: BS: My New Video Commentary on Festivals
From: SINSULL
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 03:02 PM

Portsmouth, NH festival is free with a donationn jar making the rounds and some CD tables. The Portland Harbor festival was free. I believe the Bangor International Folk Festival is $15 per day as is NEFFA. Don't see where you are coming from, Conrad.
The most expensive event I attend is the FSGW Getaway - about $130 for three nights accomodations and three meals with snacks per day. CD tables; silent auctions.

Subject: RE: BS: My New Video Commentary on Festivals
From: SINSULL
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 03:04 PM

Local house concerts are $15 and include a hot buffet, top name talent, and a bed with breakfast if you need it.

Subject: RE: BS: My New Video Commentary on Festivals
From: SINSULL
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 03:05 PM

Don,
When is your book going to print?
SINS

Subject: RE: BS: My New Video Commentary on Festivals
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 03:57 PM

Hi Conrad,

Please list just five of the festivals you have aimed your animation at.

Don

Subject: RE: BS: My New Video Commentary on Festivals
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 04:27 PM

Easy and I could do 20!

This is simply nothing more than industral strength removal of money from pockets. Nothing wrong with it but not the kind of tea in my cup at present. Yes an entire industry people make their livings from it so therefore some people tell me it must be ok.

And yes I put on celebrations that do not involve money, fees etc. In the past people did this in the form of church suppers, covered dish dinners, barn raisings and just plain and simple gatherings. Eventually such things attracted hangers on but now its mostly vendors. Look at a festival - If you cant find the folk for the vendors there is a problem. Just look at the money put into some of these web pages. Money that is not going to "folk" musicians.


http://cssm.org/festival

http://www.marylandfaeriefestival.org/

http://www.potomaccelticfest.org/

http://www.celticfest.org/

http://www.faeriecon.com/

sorry no time for clickys must run

Conrad

Subject: RE: BS: My New Video Commentary on Festivals
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 04:35 PM

I've been plugging away on it for some time now, Sins, and I hope I can get it wrapped up within the next year or two. I could whip out a novel in about a twentieth of the time, but even though the book consists largely of my own personal experiences and reminiscences, I'm keeping it well anchored within the context of the larger picture. This involves a lot of fact-checking and consulting with friends who were also there at the time.

The first draft has run over 120,000 words so far, and I still have a way to go. When I get the first draft finished, it's going to take a lot of heavy-duty editing and cutting, because I'm doing a lot of "stream of consciousness" writing in an attempt, not only to include the facts and the events, but to capture the flavor of it all.

But there is the old dictum about a writer editing his or her own stuff that you have to spend a lot of painful time "killing your darlings." That is, eliminating those scenes that were fun to write, but don't necessarily advance the narrative. For example, I'm not sure how many people interested in the folk music scene in this area would also be interested in the encounter between Walt Robertson's dog, Smoky (half malamute, half chow), and Fred Melberg's (fully loaded) pet skunk. Or the tendency of quart bottles of Bob Clark's home-brewed beer (which he often brought to song fests) to explode in a geyser of foam at inopportune times.

There's the old story of the writer of who had a tight deadline, and he turned in a huge manuscript. The editor said, "But I only wanted a short piece!" To which the writer replied, "You gave me such a close deadline that I didn't have enough time to write a short piece!"

Soon, I hope. I already have a line on a couple of potential publishers.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: My New Video Commentary on Festivals
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 04:37 PM

Don F, I think you'll find that GfS was having a pop at me.

Same answer GfS!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: My New Video Commentary on Festivals
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 04:39 PM

Or maybe not!

It's hard to tell, as after all this time he doesn't seem to know the difference.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: My New Video Commentary on Festivals
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 04:52 PM

""For example, I'm not sure how many people interested in the folk music scene in this area would also be interested in the encounter between Walt Robertson's dog, Smoky (half malamute, half chow), and Fred Melberg's (fully loaded) pet skunk. Or the tendency of quart bottles of Bob Clark's home-brewed beer (which he often brought to song fests) to explode in a geyser of foam at inopportune times.""

Hell Don, don't do away with all the anecdotes for God's Sake.

Carefully chosen stories (and I really would love to hear those) will have your readers panting through the pages looking for the next.

Non fiction can be a very dry dish, but a leavening of down home, folksy, humour makes it nigh on irresistable, and the readers will swallow it whole, as long as you choose the best and place them appropriately to the historical narrative.

I hope you make the best seller list.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: My New Video Commentary on Festivals
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 05:19 PM

Well hell Conrad,

I got admit I am with you on the five you sent to a certain degree. I didn't find them pricey from an individual attendance stand point. But then I'm 59 and my kids make more than I ever did so they can pay there way in. I am not a fan of Celtic Rock Show Bands which is what seems to suffice for most peoples ears as to what Celtic Music has come to be. But when you have Bruce Molsky at a show you are getting a hell of a musician altho I don't see the Celtic fit.

I went straight to the vendors lists and that is what I see. Vendors. People who are retail traders who buy for resale 60 - 90% of their wares. Which is why you'll never see my silver jewelry at one of these events. The price for a 10' x 10' space is as quoted from Celtic Fest.

"Prices range from $660.00 to $1500.00, based on location. An additional $150.00 deposit is also required."

As a crafter who makes 99.99% of everything I sell, I can't afford these prices. Does it come from China? Possibly, but the jewelry is more likely cast in pewter from a melt shop in Scotland or Wales with some highend stuff added to the mix for eye candy.

But like others have said, these are not anymore a folk festival that the Sterling or Florida Renn Faires are the Middle ages. Come up to Old Songs and see a festival.

The reason admission to Old Songs is higher than any of the Celtic Fests you sent me is the Celtic shows retail vendors and the show program bulletin pay for the show.

I'd pass on these shows myself.

Don

Subject: RE: BS: My New Video Commentary on Festivals
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 05:23 PM

Sounds like good advice, Don T. I am indeed reluctant to part with all that stuff because salting it through the historical events adds the sort of flavor I want to the whole thing. I think good history should read like a good story.

I doubt that there would be wide enough general interest for it to make the best seller list, but if it does, well, I certainly won't burst into tears!

Sorry if we're boring you, GfS. (But not really.)

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: My New Video Commentary on Festivals
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 05:43 PM

It is all just a giant food chain. And that keeps it from being a big covered dish dinner or barn raising or simple happening.

We are in the Baltimore Washington Corridor where there is also lots of money still..........so its what the market will bear but some things that the market will bear are simply not helpful

Subject: RE: BS: My New Video Commentary on Festivals
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 07:18 PM

Having looked at all of them, I can't say that I find them particularly out of line, considering what's being offered. Of course I'm one who would attend as a spectator, or possibly as a performer (depending), but not as a vendor.

Since these seem to be fairly specifically "Celtic," I'm not sure I would necessarily characterize these events as "folk festivals" and then condemn all folk festivals because I don't like something about the way these are handled.

I like things Celtic (except for the recent advent of PBS "begathon" specials like "Celtic Women" and "Celtic Thunder," all of which I find very slick, commercial, and a bit artificial), but I'm no fanatic about it. We have a yearly Highland Games here locally, but I've never regarded that as a "folk festival," nor, am I aware, does much of anybody else.

On the other hand, the Berkeley Folk Festivals in the late 1950s and into the 1960s, featuring the singers and folklorists I listed above and specifically about traditional folk songs and ballads, and the Northwest Folklife Festivals currently being held over Memorial Day weekend at the Seattle Center, where you can take in anything from Bluegrass to Appalachian ballads to sheep shearing to Taiko drumming, and drawing and average attendance of 200,000 to 250,000 over a four-day period, are are most definitely folk festivals. The Northwest Folklife Festivals are admission free.

The Northwest Folklife Festival, I believe, gets funding from the National Endowment for the Arts, and by selling souvenir buttons and T-shirts, and they take a percentage of the vendors' proceeds. The Berkeley festivals charged an attendance fee of $15.00 for the entire five-day event. And there were no vendors at the festival itself.

Like I said, Conrad, if you don't like the way others are doing it, organize your own.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: My New Video Commentary on Festivals
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 08:16 PM

like I said don I am already doing that

Subject: RE: BS: My New Video Commentary on Festivals
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 09:38 PM

Okay. There you go.

Don Firth