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Tech: Fedora 12 & Ubuntu 10.04 madness...

The Fooles Troupe 26 May 10 - 07:51 PM
The Fooles Troupe 26 May 10 - 07:54 PM
The Fooles Troupe 26 May 10 - 08:19 PM
The Fooles Troupe 26 May 10 - 09:05 PM
The Fooles Troupe 26 May 10 - 09:32 PM
GUEST 27 May 10 - 12:50 AM
gnomad 27 May 10 - 05:57 AM
The Fooles Troupe 27 May 10 - 07:48 AM
Newport Boy 27 May 10 - 12:12 PM
GUEST 27 May 10 - 06:53 PM
The Fooles Troupe 27 May 10 - 06:54 PM
The Fooles Troupe 28 May 10 - 03:24 AM
The Fooles Troupe 28 May 10 - 06:53 AM
The Fooles Troupe 28 May 10 - 05:29 PM
Tootler 28 May 10 - 05:56 PM
The Fooles Troupe 28 May 10 - 07:04 PM
The Fooles Troupe 28 May 10 - 07:10 PM
Joe Offer 28 May 10 - 08:49 PM
The Fooles Troupe 29 May 10 - 01:41 AM
GUEST,Tootler on his BlackBerry 29 May 10 - 03:05 AM
Newport Boy 29 May 10 - 04:33 AM
The Fooles Troupe 29 May 10 - 06:49 AM
The Fooles Troupe 30 May 10 - 10:12 AM
JohnInKansas 31 May 10 - 06:50 AM
The Fooles Troupe 31 May 10 - 09:43 PM
The Fooles Troupe 07 Jun 10 - 05:39 AM
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Subject: Tech: Fedora 12 madness...
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 May 10 - 07:51 PM

Anyone help with Fedora 12 - I've just upgraded a box that ran ok with F9 and it's been a 2 day nightmare to get this far - the Firefox won't read Facebook or Myspace and it just fills the error console with garbage and renders the pages in text only - I haven't tried doing all the bloody 'updates' again yet - after 3 times doing that after reloading the system several times still to have the system unusable, I'm no hurry to waste time on that again....

Just love that you can spend an hour or so 'installing' to the hard drive, initial boot (from that HD) then have the system tell you it can't find the bloody HD!!!!!!! :-) Killed all that LVM and Ext4 crap - now finally have a bootable system... (but it did insist on having a ext4 / partition - only way i could get the system live was from the 'live install' CD) :-)

Love that I can get in here with no technical hassle... mostly plain html, you see :-)


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Subject: RE: Tech: Fedora 12 madness...
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 May 10 - 07:54 PM

Mudcat just gives these errors...

Security Error: Content at http://googleads.g.doubleclick.net/ may not load data from http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=129750&messages=1.

and I haven't tried anything fancy with Firefox or Selunic security yet...


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Subject: RE: Tech: Fedora 12 madness...
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 May 10 - 08:19 PM

This was the last try with F12 - I needed to get a working system running from the HD. I needed to be able to take the Live CD out - can't DO that - so I could load in a CDthat had the iso file to boot and install Ubuntu from - so I could copy that to a USB key (couldn't write to the HD!) so I could write that to the CD to boo/install Ubuntu from....

Lost you yet? :-0

but looks like the system is mostly runnable now - the hassle before was that the 'packagekit' files - needed to run Yum - the updater/installer - were broken, and you can't then DO the needed updates to fix itself.... aaaarrrggghhhh....


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Subject: RE: Tech: Fedora 12 madness...
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 May 10 - 09:05 PM

When trying to GET the 'bug fix updates'....

OK - I give up - Package kit F***** obviously unreapiarable - any hints?

Error Type:
Error Value: Error getting repository data for installed, repository not found
File : /usr/share/PackageKit/helpers/yum/yumBackend.py, line 3125, in
    main()
File : /usr/share/PackageKit/helpers/yum/yumBackend.py, line 3122, in main
    backend.dispatcher(sys.argv[1:])
File : /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/packagekit/backend.py, line 710, in dispatcher
    self.dispatch_command(args[0], args[1:])
File : /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/packagekit/backend.py, line 657, in dispatch_command
    self.update_packages(only_trusted, package_ids)
File : /usr/share/PackageKit/helpers/yum/yumBackend.py, line 1948, in update_packages
    signed = self._is_package_repo_signed(pkg)
File : /usr/share/PackageKit/helpers/yum/yumBackend.py, line 1437, in _is_package_repo_signed
    repo = self.yumbase.repos.getRepo(pkg.repoid)
File : /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/yum/repos.py, line 121, in getRepo
    'Error getting repository data for $s, repository not found' $ (repoid)


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Subject: RE: Tech: Fedora 12 madness...
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 May 10 - 09:32 PM

OK - will be trying the Ubuntu install - downloading the iso now - would you believe that the DVD I have with it on has the file as uncopyable? hahahahahaha!

may not be back untill the system is live again....


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Subject: RE: Tech: Fedora 12 madness...
From: GUEST
Date: 27 May 10 - 12:50 AM

Well Ubuntu booted... but... the CD was written and said it had errors, and the the install itself crashed with indecipherable errors... but we're running live and it actually seems to be faster... :-)


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Subject: RE: Tech: Fedora 12 madness...
From: gnomad
Date: 27 May 10 - 05:57 AM

We're waiting with 'bated breath (well I am anyway) to hear how this comes out.

I've no experience of Fedora, so am unable to offer help, but I did wonder why you were going for F12 when F13 is available?

Fedora help might be a good place to try if you haven't explored that avenue already.

I've an old laptop on which I was using Mint XFCE, but I'm currently trying Peppermint which is doing well for a machine with such limited resources. I know there are other Linux users on here, but cannot remember who (Geoff the Duck may, I think, be one) It's good to hear how folks are getting on.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Fedora 12 madness...
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 27 May 10 - 07:48 AM

Arrghhhhh - the burn of the Ubuntu iso did not work because the flaky F12 Brasero (which could not be updated) did not write the disk properly, so recycle around the bootstrap loop getting a version of fedora gnome baker which DID write the Ubuntu iso (went for the AMD 64 bit X2 version - that's the processor!) properly! , and - now the Ubuntu (which even accounting for the slow CD p partition is MUCH faster) will not take on the disk prepared by F12 cause it is ext4 but Ubuntu wants an all ext3 disk and F12 defaults to a ext4 / (root) partition, which Ubuntu apparently will not reformat as an ext3......

So now will try the F13 64 bit - downloaded - will not save to the CDR.... !!!!! ... so tried again to a usb stick! and now have run out of CDs to burn onto..... :-(

I have omitted MANY steps... :-)

Such as I have watched F12 'install to completion' then boot, and Panic! cause it could not mount read the disk it had justwritten to and just booted from.... :-) no sensible error of course, so you have to go to first principles of theory to work out why....

I usually as a matter of principle now refuse to touch the latest version as I had my laptop blow away the HD (no physical damage!) after several hours of working to install F10 - the latest version - then find out weeks later that serious bugs were in there - also hassles like the 'default' size /boot needs to be increased - but all the geeks did not get this in their 'tests' as they all used larger than standard size partitions! Also F9 (then latest version) wiped the second HD as it refused to accept that anyone might have 2 HDs in their machine, so it 'dual accessed' the 2 disks simultaneously, and blew away the inode table.... :-) cause it could not deal with the fact that the 2 drives EACH had Vol000 (default) ids.... :-)


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Subject: RE: Tech: Fedora 12 madness...
From: Newport Boy
Date: 27 May 10 - 12:12 PM

Try Mepis - Debian KDE based.

I downloaded the latest Mepis 8.5 USB ISO yesterday (900+MB), used Unetbootin to make a bootable stick, wiped out Linpus and Mepis 8 from my Aspire One, repartitioned from the live USB, installed 8.5 and was up and running.

40 mins to download and burn, 35 mins to partition and install. Everything works!

Phil


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Subject: RE: Tech: Fedora 12 madness...
From: GUEST
Date: 27 May 10 - 06:53 PM

OK - lucky I DO have all that techie knowledge buried inside.... a total newbie would never have guessed...

Well I finally found parted - partition editor - it's buried elsewhere than it is in Fedora...

Reformatted the ext4 partition to ext3... and wiped all the existing partitions so we had a clean install...

Why ext4 default for Fedora? Well if you have disks that are umpty umpteen terrabytes, then you NEED it, well Linus , the father of linux uses it so he must have big disks... er, um.... most OLDER boxes - the selling point for Linux, have disks 500Gb or smaller anyway....

And then the penny dropped.... Ubuntu 'helpfully' mounts the partitions when the install fails so you can look and play with them.... you need to have them UNMOUNTED so the install can happen - fixed that and Zip!

Did the basic security installs and wow! not all there yet and the 64 bit stuff for things like image like opera plugin for Firefox etc are not available yet, but apart from the colours - red yuck, blue , (fedora) nice... and the close window button being on the left instead of the right, much bette, much faster. The basic system on install even handles most of the web formats without hunting around... nicer!
Still need to build and reload all old files for owner of PC so she is happy.... ;-)


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Subject: RE: Tech: Fedora 12 madness...
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 27 May 10 - 06:54 PM

Ah - password needed again - now it will keep the cookie.... :-)


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Subject: RE: Tech: Fedora 12 madness...
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 May 10 - 03:24 AM

Aggghhhhh - bloody Ubuntu - just as "too clever for it's own good" as Fedora - you can't run root 'easily' and it's giving me hassles in trying to restore files from the backup USB HD.... it won't let me cange permissions on dirs, etc..... aaaggghhhh!


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Subject: RE: Tech: Fedora 12 madness...
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 May 10 - 06:53 AM

Got root to open a GUI - but it was locked down to be 'secure'.

Smug system - even running as root, pretends to change the permissions, then cleverly changes them back... it's all buried deep in pam security files, but no beginner (the alleged market for this 'secure' crap) should have to dig thru several levels of dir structure to edit files in which one slight typo will kill the system ... might be ok for a single user, but is basically brain dead for multi-user wanting to share files & create directories. It won't even let me (as root!) change ownership of files/dirs even those OWNED by root - or ANY file OWNED by the user who owns it. It won;t even let me CREATE dirs/files in areas I OWN...

I have played with computers since the 70s, and UNIX on mainframes & minis long before micros could even RUN any version of UNIX/linux and it is f****** unusable!


Looks like we now try F13.... but I'm too tired after 2 days fighting...


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Subject: RE: Tech: Fedora 12 & Ubuntu 10.04 madness...
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 May 10 - 05:29 PM

Bizarro universe!

I installed Speed Dial into Firefox - give a display of boxes that have piccies that you click onto access web sites - brilliant, but on this new Ububti setup, you can save the llnks, then you come back and the mongrel thing has wiped them!

Goddam useless "Security"!!!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: Fedora 12 madness...
From: Tootler
Date: 28 May 10 - 05:56 PM

I've been using Ubuntu for about 15 months, so my Linux experience is limited, but what I have found with regard to file ownership is

Files and Folders on ext3 partitions are normally owned by ~/name and you can do most things with them. You do sometimes find that you have to reset permissions which can be done either from Nautilus (Assuming you are using Gnome) or from the terminal.

Files and Folders on Windoze partitions (FAT/NTSC) are owned by root and you can't change ownership but you can change permissions but that has to be done from the terminal as root (sudo chmod...).

Maybe if you want to "get your hands dirty" and poke around in the system, you should try Debian itself rather than Ubuntu. I am very happy with Ubuntu, it lets me do most things I want to do, but I do have a dual boot WinXP/Ubuntu computer as there is a small number of Windows programs I find useful and Wine doesn't always do the business.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Fedora 12 madness...
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 May 10 - 07:04 PM

I set up all partitions as /ext3...

The parts on the USB drive may be FAT - I certainly can't touch them AT ALL as the 'owner' and even as root - EVEN WHEN I FINALLY GET ROOT TO RUN!!!!!!

I had enormous hassles setting up rational access permissions at all - I had to set up extra groups in such a way that the files can be shared as desired - but I can't change the default groups - EVEN AS ROOT!

As I age, and my micromotor coordination gets more annoying, I prefer to use the GUI - any system that insists that things that 'work' can ONLY be done from the command line is 'immature'... a real cynic might say 'puerile'... :-)

As a single user box, it might be ok, but is useless as multiuser...


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Subject: RE: Tech: Fedora 12 madness...
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 May 10 - 07:10 PM

"Maybe if you want to "get your hands dirty" and poke around in the system"

This is a 'grandma system' for a naive user (I still use Win98SE!!! - it works!) who lives several hours away by road from me and she just wants a working system... F9 broke the 'packagekit' which gave endless errors and could not be updated/fixed - and is no longer supported anyway - so we HAD to move...

I also am getting too old to have any fun spending endless time getting my hands dirty - especially since hey keep 'improving' and changing things all the time (I grew up on OSes with UNIX!!!!) 'fixing' a system I just want to 'work' that keeps getting wonderful reviews as the best thing since sliced bread... puerile is right.... :-)


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Subject: RE: Tech: Fedora 12 & Ubuntu 10.04 madness...
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 May 10 - 08:49 PM

I have my 20-yr-old stepson busy installing versions of Linux on various old computers, trying to squeeze more use out of them. It's a good way to keep him occupied during school vacation, so he doesn't become too much of a couch potato. I can't keep up with what he's learned - I just kinda wave my hand, and he makes the computer do what I want it to do.
Seems like it keeps Foolestroupe busy and out of trouble, too. Want me to wave my hand in your direction, Foolestroupe?

I maintain a number of XP and Vista computers, so I keep up on those operating systems, but I haven't had the energy to tackle Linus.

-Joe, who prefers Windows 7-


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Subject: RE: Tech: Fedora 12 & Ubuntu 10.04 madness...
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 29 May 10 - 01:41 AM

The further I dig into trying to track down Ubuntu bug solutions, the bigger the disaster I find that Ubuntu 10.04 is.

I was conned by the brilliant PR system and all those glowing (deceptive) reviews by those who installed it and dabbled for 5 minutes - it MAY work ok for single users who casually web browse, or scribble a few notes, but is useless for multiple users who want to share files....

It DOES LOOK pretty though.... except some lunatic has decided that the window buttons will now be on the LEFT, instead of the RIGHT!!! Lucky I found a theme that is still usable....


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Subject: RE: Tech: Fedora 12 & Ubuntu 10.04 madness...
From: GUEST,Tootler on his BlackBerry
Date: 29 May 10 - 03:05 AM

It seems to me that getting your hands dirty is just what you are doing even if you would rather not.

On a more constructive note, have you tried the Ubuntu help forum? There is also a site called "Ubuntu Geek" Which has plenty of "How Tos"

Between them they helped me solve most of my problems.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Fedora 12 & Ubuntu 10.04 madness...
From: Newport Boy
Date: 29 May 10 - 04:33 AM

May I repeat my earlier suggestion. For the use you are describing, SimplyMEPIS would be a good solution. It's based on Debian stable, so doesn't have frequent major changes, it's rock solid in use and it has Mepis Assistants for Users and Network, which take most of the hassle out of setting up.

The download runs as a live OS, with most applications included, so you can have a thorough look before clicking the 'Install' button.

For minimum problems, try version 8.0 which uses KDE3. This is what I'm using. I've just installed the recent 8.5, which uses KDE4, on my Aspire One, and so far that seems fine.

The best thing about Mepis is the MepisLovers forum - far and away the most helpful Linux forum on the net.

Phil


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Subject: RE: Tech: Fedora 12 & Ubuntu 10.04 madness...
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 29 May 10 - 06:49 AM

The user uses Gnome, and is happy.

The help forum has nothing that I can find among the many 'protection hassles' - there are so many....

Am looking at trying F13 - with a clean disk...

The Ubuntu live disk looked great.... and I think that was the problem...


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Subject: RE: Tech: Fedora 12 & Ubuntu 10.04 madness...
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 May 10 - 10:12 AM

OK - I don't understand the madness - but it now has stopped and i can change permissions - I did some updates, maybe that fixed it....

I tracked down the latest version of Image Like Opera, so now I'm happy... well, more or less... and the 64 bit version picks up the dual processors and is much smoother... also less hassle with the various web graphics thingies...


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Subject: RE: Tech: Fedora 12 & Ubuntu 10.04 madness...
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 31 May 10 - 06:50 AM

Although I hate to interrupt with a thread drift, perhaps a reminder is in order:

Another Reason to have Ubuntu

iPhone security flaw: Using a PIN won't help
Security blogger finds 'data protection vulnerability' to user's information
By Sarah Jacobsson
PC World
updated 2:06 p.m. CT, Fri., May 28, 2010

Using a four-digit PIN to lock your iPhone doesn't really protect your data, security and IT blogger Bernd Marienfeldt has discovered. In an article describing the iPhone's business security framework, Marienfeldt has found a "data protection vulnerability" in Apple's iPhone 3GS.

Marienfeldt, working with security expert Jim Herbeck, has been able to reproduce the vulnerability on at least three non jail-broken iPhone 3GS handsets with different iPhone OS versions installed (including the latest). All tested iPhones were protected with a four-digit PIN.

Basically, he said, plugging an up-to-date, non jail-broken, PIN-protected iPhone (powered off) into a computer running Ubuntu Lucid Lynx will allow the people to see practically all of the user's data — including music, photos, videos, podcasts, voice recordings, Google safe browsing databases, and game contents. The "hacker" has read/write access to the iPhone, and the hack leaves no trace.

According to Marienfeldt, "The allowed write access could also lead into triggering a buffer overflow."

A buffer overflow could allow full write access, and full write access could potentially lead to the attacker being able to make phone calls (as far as we know, the attacker can access all of your data but they can't make any phone calls … how reassuring).

[The report is that Apple hasn't indicated any schedule for fixing this, so if you find an iphone on a bar stool somewhere it might be worth knowing.]

John


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Subject: RE: Tech: Fedora 12 & Ubuntu 10.04 madness...
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 31 May 10 - 09:43 PM

OK - brutalised the beast mostly - whatnow really annoys me is that I can't drag and drop a tab onto the desktop to make a (bookmark) link that can be treated like other file and bundled together with other files etc. YES I KNOW ABOUT THE BOOKMARKS FILE AND ACCESS TO BOOKMARKS IN FIREFOX, including writing them all out! :-)

Wonder if there is some plugin that allows that...


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Subject: RE: Tech: Fedora 12 & Ubuntu 10.04 madness...
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 07 Jun 10 - 05:39 AM

OK - now have a stable system - held up by the need to not overrun the BBand monthly allowance for the updates and addtl utilities....

Still annoyed by lack of drag and drop of bookmarks - the drag and drop just pulls that tab off Firefox and open a new window - you can drop it back on the original window - that IS cute, but not as useful as I want...


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