BS: Quiz: Old West Badmen and Goodmen

Subject: BS: Quiz: Old West Badmen and Goodmen
From: Rapparee
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 04:05 PM

You sing about them, you know about them: the outlaws, gunmen, and lawmen of the Old West (US Old West, that is). Now, can you supply the first and middle names of these famous goodies and baddies AND connect which nickname goes to whom? I've provided hints to their first and middle names. I'll post the answers tomorrow.

A F James                                            Billy the Kid
D A Mather                                            Dingus
W B Masterson                                            Buck
W H McCarty                                            Doc
J H Holliday                                            Mysterious
W M Tilghman                                            Duck Bill
J A Slade                                            Bat
J B Hickok                                            Jack
J W James                                            Bill
C E Boles                                            Butch Cassidy
T E Ketchum                                            Black Bart
R L Parker                                            Soapy
J R Smith II                                            Blackjack
O P Rockwell                                            Longhair Jim
T I Courtright                                            Old Port

(Sorry for the irregular column.)

Subject: RE: BS: Quiz: Old West Badmen and Goodmen
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 04:38 PM

Sometimes hard to tell the goodies from the baddies. Frank James (hmmm, I don't know his first name) never was tried and died with his boots off in 1915. Jessie Woodson James was killed by Bob Ford, but he might have dodged jail time as well, although there was a reward for him and Ford tried to collect.

Interesting name game, I have read biographies of some but can't recall full names without looking them up.

William Henry Bonney was probably the best known name for poor Billy, but Henry McCarty also has some suporters. As Bonney, he petitioned Gov. Lew Wallace, and his surviving letters are signed Bonney.

Subject: RE: BS: Quiz: Old West Badmen and Goodmen
From: Amos
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 05:29 PM

Bill Hickock, Bat Masterson, Doc Holiday. JEsse was killed while living under a pseudonym which escapes me at the moment...Nice quiz, Booqeman! :D


A

Subject: RE: BS: Quiz: Old West Badmen and Goodmen
From: gnu
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 06:12 PM

Ditto what Amos said.

I expect Rap, if he has seen this, will have all the answers by dark, my time.

Subject: RE: BS: Quiz: Old West Badmen and Goodmen
From: catspaw49
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 06:42 PM

Without Googling......

Charles Boles was Black Bart
John Holliday was Doc
Robert Leroy(?) Parker was Butch Cassidy
William Bonney nee Henry McCarty was Billy the Kid

Then there are a few already answered......

But I do know the names of all the Earp Brothers:
Wyatt
Morgan
Virgil
James
Warren
Newton (half brother)

Do I get any bonus?

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Quiz: Old West Badmen and Goodmen
From: Rapparee
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 06:42 PM

Don't forget that you have to match the guy (they're all male) up to his nickname as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Quiz: Old West Badmen and Goodmen
From: Rapparee
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 06:44 PM

You didn't get their middle names, Spaw. Bad Spaw. No bonus.

Subject: RE: BS: Quiz: Old West Badmen and Goodmen
From: catspaw49
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 06:54 PM

Geeziz....I like some old west history but knowing the middle names? And you have Billy the Kid wrong btw......

I do know one more I realized as I was thinking about the Earps. Texas Jack Vermillion (who was probably from Virginia) joined the gang of the con man Soapy Smith. Beats me what the JR part is.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Quiz: Old West Badmen and Goodmen
From: Rapparee
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 06:55 PM

You know, there were more than one person nicknamed "Billy the Kid."

Subject: RE: BS: Quiz: Old West Badmen and Goodmen
From: Amos
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 07:11 PM

Well, yeah, but all those countless goat brats don't count.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Quiz: Old West Badmen and Goodmen
From: alanabit
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 01:14 PM

And there was me thinking Billy the Kid's middle name was the...

Subject: RE: BS: Quiz: Old West Badmen and Goodmen
From: Rapparee
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 02:24 PM

"I expect Rap, if he has seen this, will have all the answers by dark, my time."

Well, yes, gnu, he had seen it and he has all the answers. Of course, Rap wrote it....

Subject: RE: BS: Quiz: Old West Badmen and Goodmen
From: Rapparee
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 05:45 PM

The Answers

A F James, Alexander Franklin James, nicknamed "Buck" by his family and associates.
                                          
D A Mather, Dave Allan Mather, nicknamed "Mysterious Dave" Mather. A some-time lawman and sometime-outlaw.
                                          
W B Masterson, William Barclay Masterson, he was given the name Bartholomew when he was born, hence his nickname "Bat." Changed his name when he grew older.
                                       
W H McCarty, William Henry McCarty, alias William Antrim, alias Henry Antrim, alias William Bonney. Know as "Billy the Kid", he was born in Indiana or New York City or Cork,Ireland. His mother married a guy named Antrim, hence part of the confusion. He fought in the "Lincoln County War", killed around six (not twenty-one!) men, rustled cattle, and was killed by Pat Garrett.
                                       
J H Holliday, John Henry Holliday, a dentist, he went West because of his tuberculosis (gee, a tubercular dentist coughing and working on your teeth -- what a charming picture!). Nicknamed "Doc", of course.
                                       
W M Tilghman, William Matthew Tilgham, nicknamed "Bill." One of the better lawmen, and he stayed on the side of the law.
                                       
J A Slade, Joseph Alfred Slade, nicknamed "Jack". Born in Illinois, a great guy when sober and a mean, mean drunk, he shot Jules Beni to pieces over three days just because Beni had shot him in the stomach with a sawed-off shotgun. Hanged by vigilantes in Monatana. Mark Twain met him (see "Roughing It" for the incident).
                                          
J B Hickok, James Butler Hickok, born in Illinois, nicknamed "Duck Bill" by his associates because of his protruding upper lip -- the reason he grew a mustache. Nickname changed to "Wild Bill" by Ned Buntline for the dime novels; shot and killed in a poker game in Deadwood, Dakota Territory. NOT the husband of Calamity Jane, no matter what she said.
                                          
J W James, Jesse Woodson James, nicknamed "Dingus" by his family and associates. He didn't swear, but made up the word "Dingus!" instead, hence the nickname. DNA analysis in 1995 determined that there is a 99.9% chance that he is buried in the grave of Jesse James.
                                          
C E Boles, Charles Earl Boles, nicknamed "Black Bart", a stage robber who never harmed anyone except the Wells Fargo company. Little authoritative is known about him, except that he had a farm near Decatur, Illinois, and left his wife and children there when he went to California (they never saw him again). Name confirmed from the rolls of the 116th Illinois Volunteers, in which he served during the US Civil War.
                                          
T E Ketchum, Thomas Edward Ketchum, nicknamed "Blackjack". A miserable excuse of a train robber, when he was hung in New Mexico in 1901 the hangman botched the job and ripped Ketchum's head from his body. He did say, "I'll be in hell before you'll be at breakfast" to his executioners.
                                          
R L Parker, Robert Leroy Parker, a good Mormon boy who took the name "Butch Cassidy" after a much less famous outlaw he once rode with. There is no record that he killed anyone. Heck, you've seen the movie!
                                          
J R Smith II, Jefferson Randolph Smith II, nicknamed "Soapy" from the con he ran in Denver. Later, in Skagway he pretty much ran the town during the Days of '98 and was shot to death by irate citizens.
                                       
O P Rockwell, Orrin Porter Rockwell, known as "Old Port." Born in Vermont he was Joseph Smith's and later Brigham Young's personal bodyguard. Died with his boots on, but considered one of the most implacable killers in the Old West -- but only when told to do so.
                                       
T I Courtright, Timothy Isaiah Courtwright, nickname "Long Hair Jim." Sometimes a lawman, he was killed by Luke Short when a lucky shot by Short took off Courtright's right thumb. While Courtright tried to do a "Border Shift" to move his gun to his left hand, Short shot him five more times.

Sources:: Various books, including but not limited to, Cunningham's "Triggernometry"; "Outlaws of the Pacific Northwest", Gulick; "Badasses of the the Old West", Erin Turner, ed.; "Knights of the Green Cloth", DeArment; "Old Deadwood Days", Bennett; "Shooters", Metz.      

I include some of the sources because a lot of these have a lot of controversy.

Subject: RE: BS: Quiz: Old West Badmen and Goodmen
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 06:50 AM

I just happened on this after the answers were posted. Amos, when Jesse James tried to get out of the business he moved to St. Louis MO. and changed his name to Howard....but that dirty little coward who shot Mr. Howard...

Subject: RE: BS: Quiz: Old West Badmen and Goodmen
From: bubblyrat
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 07:54 AM

Looks like mainly Badmen to me !!
   I like middle names,and use mine all the time ; here's a few middle names of famous Americans, all Good Guys, I suppose,although it depends on your point of view !! At least,they had a lot in common.

Baird ?? Tyler ?? Jordan ?? Miner ?? Newton?? Henderson?? Augustus ??   --- I'll try to find some more !

Subject: RE: BS: Quiz: Old West Badmen and Goodmen
From: olddude
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 08:09 AM

How about Judge Roy Bean?

Subject: RE: BS: Quiz: Old West Badmen and Goodmen
From: kendall
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 09:26 AM

Tommy Lee Jones.William Randolph Hurst.

Subject: RE: BS: Quiz: Old West Badmen and Goodmen
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 10:59 AM

Kendall Jedediah "Liver-Eating" Morse,

Subject: RE: BS: Quiz: Old West Badmen and Goodmen
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 11:00 AM

And no, they're not all badmen. Many of them were lawmen at one time or another and a couple made law enforcement their career.

Subject: RE: BS: Quiz: Old West Badmen and Goodmen
From: Mrrzy
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 11:02 AM

Ah, the Law West of the Pecos, I know about him from the French comic Lucky Luke. Also about Black Bart, including the fact that he was tracked down to a mild schoolmaster, who dined at the same luncheonette as the Pinkerton or whoever detectives hired by Wells fargo to find Black Bart, hah hah, because of a laundry mark on the overcoat he wore as a disguise, and that he left poetry at with his victims (I've labored long and hard for bread, for honor and for riches, but on my corns too long you've tread, you fine-haired sons of bitches)...

Subject: RE: BS: Quiz: Old West Badmen and Goodmen
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 19 Jun 10 - 09:32 AM

The wild west existed mostly in the mind of Ned Buntline.Wyatt Earp never killed a man before the OK Corral fight.

Subject: RE: BS: Quiz: Old West Badmen and Goodmen
From: Rapparee
Date: 19 Jun 10 - 10:00 AM

The Earp brothers were known as "The Fighting Pimps." Today it sounds like a football team; Notre Dame would probably get upset though. The Earps were not pleased by that nickname, accurate though it was.

Subject: RE: BS: Quiz: Old West Badmen and Goodmen
From: bubblyrat
Date: 19 Jun 10 - 11:22 AM

No takers then ?? My list was of some US firearms inventors / manufacturers, ie :

Daniel BAIRD Wesson....Benjamin TYLER Henry....Richard JORDAN Gatling....Christopher MINER Spencer....Isaac NEWTON Lewis...Gilbert HENDERSON Harrington.....William AUGUSTUS Richardson..

Subject: RE: BS: Quiz: Old West Badmen and Goodmen
From: Rapparee
Date: 19 Jun 10 - 01:26 PM

You forgot John MOSES Browning, Hiram STEVENS Maxim (born in Maine), Eugene MORRISON Stoner, and Oliver FISHER Winchester.

Subject: RE: BS: Quiz: Old West Badmen and Goodmen
From: Amos
Date: 20 Jun 10 - 09:59 AM

Who shot Mister Howard, is what I am asking. I knew Howard was his alias.

And where have his brave children ended up?



A

Subject: RE: BS: Quiz: Old West Badmen and Goodmen
From: catspaw49
Date: 20 Jun 10 - 10:19 AM

Robert (Bob) Ford was the dlc in question. He and brother Charley were actually two of the very few people James trusted and had hired them as sort of bodyguards. Once again though, money talks and bullshit walks.....or is shot in the back for reward money.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Quiz: Old West Badmen and Goodmen
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Jun 10 - 11:13 AM

His children are in the cemetery, Amos. They'd about 130 years old now.

Subject: RE: BS: Quiz: Old West Badmen and Goodmen
From: bubblyrat
Date: 20 Jun 10 - 12:28 PM

I guess I was thinking along the lines of people from the 1800s, Rapaire ( in view of which I apologise for Colonal Lewis, although he must have been born around then )......so I wouldn't really have thought of Eugene Stoner, and John Browning was a bit late for the Wild West too, but yes, Sir Hiram Maxim (as he became) merits a place ; not sure about Oliver Winchester,though---I thought he was just a wealthy shirt-maker who put up the cash to buy Volcanic ,& hired BT Henry to do all the work ?? I happily stand to be corrected,of course !`

Subject: RE: BS: Quiz: Old West Badmen and Goodmen
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Jun 10 - 01:13 PM

John Moses Browning, January 21 or January 23,1855 – November 26, 1926, was born in Ogden, Utah. His father, Jonathan Browning, was also a gunsmith (moved the rest from Nauvoo, Illinois) and is said to have invented a repeating caplock rifle (although no examples have been found). By the way, Browning Arms was acquired by Fabrique National de Herstel in 1977.

I'll give you Stoner, but his AR-18 and AR-15 are the the prototypes of models used by police forces around the US, and his AR-7 is still produced (by Henry) and used by bush pilots and others (I have one myself and it's a great little system).

Winchester DID build upon the Henry rifle and financed the company, but was considered a gunsmith in his time -- especially by his wife, who was mentally unbalanced. Visit the Winchester Mansion in California sometime. The Volcanic line of arms was a dead end -- a lever action pistol? But it, like the Spencer and Henry rifles, showed the way.

Subject: RE: BS: Quiz: Old West Badmen and Goodmen
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Jun 10 - 01:18 PM

Let's not overlook ol' Eliphalet Remington, founder of Remington Arms, the oldest continuously producing manufacturer of anything in North America and the oldest company still producing its original product.