Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 02:30 PM

Its Skeggy round Grimsby and Skeg to the Yorkies in Donny...
Butlitz !
Pulseroom you go have fun there are probably more knockers on here than on Skeggy beach even in the summer.

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: GUEST,sumyob
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 02:20 PM

I can't think of a better use for a holiday camp in winter.

I know blokes who attended Butlins Bognor-as previously stated they lumped folkies in with c/w (US:Grand Ol'Opry)people-a la BBC.
Participatory certainly,as there were many fully kitted morrismen(baldricks,flowery hats),likewise westerners(stetsons,boots etc).
A performer-no name as still working,albeit in a slightly modified form and not wishing to jeopardise a return gig for them,observed
(UKers read this in Lily Savage's voice,overseas try Lennon's):

'The morris types were wandering around eyeing the westerners and muttering: Would yer just look at the state of that...'

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 02:44 PM

maybe Pontin's administrators could learn something useful here..???

.. re-site the Priddy Folk Festival at Sand Bay Holiday Camp ?????

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: Fran
Date: 02 Dec 10 - 06:18 AM

Not long now, hope the snow does not affect it too much.

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: I don't know
Date: 02 Dec 10 - 06:26 AM

Rung a short while ago & they say to ring from 9.00am Tomorrow for an update as they are expecting more snow today & overnight.

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 02 Dec 10 - 06:27 AM

' hope the snow does not affect it too much'

proof that hope really does spring eternal in the human breast.

That stretch of the A52 was always a favourite for motorbikers - seeing how close they can get to the ground as they negotiate the many twists and turns. I bet its like a toboggan run in this lot.

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 02 Dec 10 - 07:12 AM

The event is going ahead and the artists are arriving. The person at Butlins did say that Pentangle had to cancel, but the rest are fine at this point.

Butlins have said that conditions are good in Skegness.

Anybody that can't make it becuase of the road conditions, can get in touch with Butlins and they will issue a letter to confirm that and that can then be claimed against your holiday insurance (assuming you have paid for that).

If you make it, I hope you all have a great time.

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: Fran
Date: 02 Dec 10 - 07:22 AM

Pentangle not booked?

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: Pulseroom
Date: 02 Dec 10 - 01:48 PM

We will make the best of what we have, it'll be fun. My wife has just bought me The Glenlivet 15 years of age. Cold? Nah!

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 02 Dec 10 - 02:33 PM

Are you there already Pulseroom?
If so, how is it going?

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: Pulseroom
Date: 02 Dec 10 - 02:40 PM

No I'm off there in the morning Arthur, can't wait. Whoop Whoop! Bring it on.............

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 02 Dec 10 - 02:55 PM

Where are you based?

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: Pulseroom
Date: 02 Dec 10 - 03:23 PM

Mexborough Nr Rotherham/Doncaster

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 02 Dec 10 - 03:27 PM

Phew, you have a lovely journey ahead of you.

Take care and make sure you get there safely.

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: Pulseroom
Date: 02 Dec 10 - 03:30 PM

I will thanks.

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: Pulseroom
Date: 02 Dec 10 - 03:38 PM

In the chilly hours and minutes,
Of uncertainty, I want to be,
At Butlins Festival at Skeggy beside the sea.

Whooop Whooop! Bring it on.........

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: Fran
Date: 02 Dec 10 - 04:22 PM

Oysterband are there already, they have a night off and are in a chalet with booze awaiting curry.

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: GUEST,Strummin Steve
Date: 02 Dec 10 - 04:58 PM

I've got tickets but I'm not sure I can see myself getting there in view of the road conditions.

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: Pulseroom
Date: 06 Dec 10 - 08:50 AM

One word sums up this event *****Phenomenal*****

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: I don't know
Date: 06 Dec 10 - 11:34 AM

Just got back. Left Friday morning after ringing & being told roads good & yes all the roads heading north were far better than expected.
The accommodation was as expected, food good for what we paid & yes despite a few changes to the line up I have to agree with Pulseroom this event was   PHENOMENAL. For the first time ever we have booked already for next year without seeing any artist line up.
It is a shame that Butlins said approximately 800 other people were unlucky in not arriving. Hope you all consider it for 2011.

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: theleveller
Date: 06 Dec 10 - 12:19 PM

Sounds like it was a good event. We would have considered going if they'd allowed children. I can't believe that, in this day and age, there's a folk festival that doesn't allow anyone under 18. Needless to say, we won't be going until that policy is changed.

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: GUEST,erbert
Date: 06 Dec 10 - 12:23 PM

No children allowed ? right, I'm definitely booking for next year !

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: GUEST,erbert
Date: 06 Dec 10 - 12:41 PM

http://www.butlins.com/whats-on-when/2009/Whats-on/activities-and-sports/Great-for-Grown-ups/adult-big-weekends.aspx

thank you Butlins

"On key dates throughout the year our Resorts go adults-only with our Big Weekends. No kids, no taxis, no worries....

... Just pick the kind of music you like, round up your mates, head down to Butlins and party all weekend."

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: Pulseroom
Date: 06 Dec 10 - 01:06 PM

Yes I have also booked for Dec 2nd 2011. Just £50.00 deposit secured and rest to pay in October 2011. Fantastic deal. A big thank you to Butlins from me also.

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010
From: GUEST,bigdrummergirl
Date: 06 Dec 10 - 02:17 PM

I have booked for next year and, judging by the queue at the holiday shop so have lots of others. We had a fantastic weekend.

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: theleveller
Date: 07 Dec 10 - 05:19 AM

What have you got against children, erbert? Not interested in the next generation of folk musicians? How very selfish of you. I have an 11-year old daughter who has been to every festival with us and who loves the music, plays cell and fiddle, sings and just loves the whole vibe.

Well, I'm pleased that we won't be able to go to Butlins if we have to mix with twats like erbert. Plenty more festivals that welcome children.

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 07 Dec 10 - 02:07 PM

If it included friday and Monday the children should have been in school.
FloraG.

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: Yvonne
Date: 07 Dec 10 - 02:37 PM

So tell us..why was it so good?

'Phenomenal' is just not enough.

Who played what where?
How many people were there?
What were the artists like..were they all good?
Were there any ballads sang.
Was it mainly traditional folk music or not?
Was there any 'fringe' where people could do their own thing?
Was everything perfect or were there areas that were not so good?
Was it like Shrewsbury festival or Sidmouth or Cleckheaton or was it not really like any other folk festival?

Yvonne

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: Pulseroom
Date: 07 Dec 10 - 03:35 PM

'Phenomenal' will just have to do Yvonne, because that's how much I enjoyed it because I was there.

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: GUEST,Armanaya
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 02:25 AM

WE were a little worried about the weather but travelled via Newark and Horncastle, the roads were clear and arrived at 6.30 it was very cold outside but the apartments were very warm. after a good meal (we booked the Full board package eating in the coat resurant) we went to the Centre stage concert (capacity 2500 a 3000 I think)
Gary Fletcher was OK, stand in band Pie were not to my taste so went to see the Strawbs in the second venue reds which is also very large. I really enjoyed them before returning to the Centre Stage to see the Oyster band perform a blinding set and back to the cozy apartments to bed.

Saturday started with a full breakfast (worth the price of the meal ticket alone)
The afternoon concert was all very good with Ey Duncan, Phil Cool and Richard Digence. The evening we opted for Reds and and enjoyed The Gathering, Sandy Thom very much but soon tired of Jiggerypipery and retired to bed.

Sunday afternoon opened with the Gordan Giltrap who was outstanding followed by Shindig a ceilidh band in a concert? final act in the afternoon was the new to me Nine below zero they were very good.

Before leaving to be home for work Monday we saw Kate Rusbys first set

There are some things that could be improved but overall a great good value weekend. For our party of 6 we paid £123 each including silver a accommodation and meals in the coast restaurant.

I would like to see a few more younger acts, a ceilidh or two and more open mics and will be booking for next year.

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: GUEST,erbert
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 07:03 AM

ok, theleveller, I'll try not to resort to being insulting back to you..

"We would have considered going if they'd allowed children. I can't believe that, in this day and age,
there's a folk festival that doesn't allow anyone under 18. Needless to say, we won't be going
until that policy is changed."

"On key dates throughout the year our Resorts go adults-only with our Big Weekends.
No kids, no taxis, no worries....
Just pick the kind of music you like, round up your mates, head down to Butlins and party all weekend."

well you see, that's the entire point of Butlin's "Adults-only Big Weekends"

Its a holidy camp, its a once in a blue moon weekend break specifically catering for adults to get away
from all the demands and stresses of their kids
and let their hair down for a rave up with other
temporarily care-free grown ups.

Its also a extremely rare opportunity for adult music lovers to avoid the perpetual tyranny
of self-rightious pompous middle-class parents
and their over-indulged noisy nuisance cute little spoilt brat darlings.

'Folk' is only one of many different music genre oriented Adult music weekends presented at these holiday centres.

Its Butlins, a big corporate holiday and entertainment company,
not Cambridge, Sidmouth, or any of the many smaller 'Folk Culture'
family festivals and events throughout the year.

You have every other festival bending to your 'family friendly' demands:

and fair enough, to a certain extent, most people, including me,
would agree entirely with your reasons and motives..

"What have you got against children, erbert? Not interested in the next generation of folk musicians? How very selfish of you. I have an 11-year old daughter who has been to every festival with us and who loves the music, plays cell and fiddle, sings and just loves the whole vibe."

well thats fantastic, and you've every right to be proud of your folk musically inclined child.

But should that give you any right or privilege to arrogantly expect every effin folk event to cater only for your personal selfish family arrangements ?

tough, Butlins know their market, and the reasonable requirements of their target consumers;
exhausted stressed out parents treating themselves
to a weekend away from the family to just be themselves !!!

and for many other music fans, its an additional bonus that for once they can enjoy
a line up of popular performers free from the distraction and irritation of other peoples over-indulged noisy kids.

Hence, these very popular and successful Adult-Only Weekend music Breaks.

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: Pulseroom
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 07:56 AM

I don't think anyone can argue at your points there Erbert, well said. However! Isn't it a shame that you have to go to so much length to explain yourself? I chose not to answer the questions from Yvonne, I'm sure there is a lot more I can say about this lovely event. This is certainly the last message I will post on this thread. I'm sure there will be another thread for next year's event as soon as we know who the performers will be.

Be there or be square....

Bring it on........ Whoooop Whooooop!

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: mayomick
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 08:48 AM

I'm very pleased everyone seemed to have enjoyed themselves so much despite the weather . Fair play to Butlins for putting this kidless weekend on -the price was good as well. Perhaps the company is able to keep the prices down because they don't have to provide child-minding facilities .

I share Yvonne's sentiments on the younger generation of folk , and personally wouldn't like to go to an event that specifically excluded kids , but can understand how others might want to let their hair down and boogie -or whatever the folk equivalent to boogie is .

I'd like to see Butlins putting on a folk weekend that did cater for kids - perhaps with some workshops geared towards musically-inclined children . I thought that one of the big selling-points of Butlins when it was originally set-up was that it gave people with children the chance to get away from some of the responsibilities of parenthood in the knowledge that the kids were being supervised and entertained by friendly redcoats and elves .

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 09:01 AM

"But should that give you any right or privilege to arrogantly expect every effin folk event to cater only for your personal selfish family arrangements ?"

Something against kids then?????? erbert? Or do you work for Butlin's?

Must have been a pretty sad event with no kids there. Not really in the spirit of "folk" music is it?

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: GUEST,erbert
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 09:34 AM

"Something against kids then?????? erbert? Or do you work for Butlin's?"

no, not really, *
it's mainly a particularly smug conceited self-righteous type of over-indulgent parent I unfortunately tend have a problem with..
Their kids can't be held to blame for the way they are brought up to behave so selfishly in public.

Btw I'd suggest the good folk who actually enjoyed this weekend event should be the ones to address such asinine snidery as..

"Must have been a pretty sad event with no kids there. Not really in the spirit of "folk" music is it?"





[* work for Butlins ?, well I did spend a summer washing up in one of Butlins larger 'Cabaret Nightspots' when I was a student]

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 06:59 PM

As I said on another thread, one of the things I enjoyed most was the lack of children. Just about every other festival these days is family friendly so I don't see anything wrong with there being one just for adults.

I think that the prices would have been much higher if they'd had to cater for children. There wasn't much for them to do and it was very cold outside.

Before anyone starts on me, I used to take my daughter to every festival that I went to when she was a child.

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 07:09 PM

I thoroughly enjoyed the weekend but was disappointed that The Unthanks, Stackridge and Renbourn/McShee didn't show up.

Donovan was great as was Gordon Giltrap, The Strawbs, Kate Rusby. I did wonder why it was called 'The Great British Folk Festival' when there were hardly any Scottish or Irish musicians (those that were there were mostly in Kate Rusby's band) and no Welsh!

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 07:27 PM

I think the organisers' mistake was calling it a festival. Butlins do loads of these events and I don't think any of the others is called a festival. A festival leads people to make assumptions about what would be there. Perhaps they could call it a folk event, or something like that.

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: Joules
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 07:41 PM

I didn't enjoy this event to any great extent and I would love to know who actually organised it as I don't think they were folkies. The idea was good and I think it could be made in to a brilliant weekend if a folkie did take it in hand. It was lacking in stuff like workshops, celidh dancing, sessions, morris men and having an open mike next to the slot machines aws never really going to work. I also found the big venues to be a little bit impersonal, but I did enjoy the adult only side of it, and before anyone has a go at me I have spent years taking my 3 daughters to festivals and my eldest sings, plays and performs because of that experience ( and because she has a very good voice ) but I don't think that this sort of festival would work for children.
It was also really nice to have a proper bed, toilet and home comforts.
It will be interesting to see next years line up

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: GUEST,Guest - Betsy
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 07:56 PM

I think it was a great effort of the camp - to try to fill it, at this most unpopular time of the Year, but why - oh why - are Folkies reduced to taking 3rd best at all these promotions regarding time of the year .
For Chrisake - put IT on at a time of the year when ALL can attend - and all your performers ,when travel might be SO difficult.
Put it on a different time of year instead of in the middle of Winter -
when performers, punters and EVERYONE can turn up with no bother and in addition, we folkies will out drink any of your other theme weekends.
As for non-turnouts - if the Unthanks were at home - the same as I , my car hasn't moved for the last two weeks - the housing estate in which I live has so much snow and packed ice it is impossible to move the damn thing - impossible.
Butlins , have a look at the Calender - there IS aMarket there .

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 04:28 AM

But isn't the problem that the good-weather-months are already full of Folk Festivals and events every weekend that cater for kids and campers? Therefore, it makes sense to run the Butlins Bash at a time when there's little or no competition, and people wouldn't be camping.

Simples (to anyone who understands running a business, which is what they're doing).

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 05:11 AM

Butlins does a lot of these weekends, always out of peak season. They don't need to do them in the spring/summer/autumn as their resorts are full. It wouldn't make economic sense to them.

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: theleveller
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 06:07 AM

Well, erbert, your ridiculous typecasting of all children and their parents totally undermines your argument. And if you come on here spoiling for a fight, as you did with your initial comments, don't be surprised when you get one!

However, I wonder if we'd have artists like Kate Rusby and Eliza Carthy - and many others - if they hadn't been brought up in the folk tradition and taken to festivals from an early age.

What would be your attitude if, for example, an upper age limit had been imposed and people over 60, say, had been excluded? I think the outcry would have been rather louder.

I agree with Banjiman's comment. What a sad event - and what a sad precendent to set for folk-loving youngsters, especially when so many people are trying to encourage their participation for the future good of the music. What it says is: "bugger off youngsters - we don't want you in our ageing, elitist little folk world". It's pretty obvious that it wasn't organised by folk-lovers, but just as a moneygrubbing commercial event.

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: theleveller
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 06:51 AM

Just to clarify my position.

What particularly annoys me is that this type of event spits in the face of those of us who are fighting not only the negative stereotyping of folk music but, more importantly, the negative stereotyping of the mature generation – yet people happily go along with it!

As someone who is rapidly approaching my 62nd year, I work for an organisation that is active in the promotion of the rights, image and integration of older people. I spend much of my time battling against the idea that older people are out of touch, over the hill and objects of derision. We don't want to be sidelined and isolated – we want to be included in the activities that are enjoyed by younger people. Therefore, I will continue to actively oppose events that exclude youngsters and, therefore, also exclude those adults who have children and are not prepared to leave them behind, because they are actively promoting age segregation. It is blatant age discrimination. It is reinforcing age barriers. It is against everything that I, and many other older people, are fighting to banish from our society.

So, if you support this type of event, don't ever complain about ageism or about negative stereotypes of folk music as the domain of 'old gits' portrayed in the press. You have only yourselves to blame!

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 08:24 AM

Agree wholeheartedly, Leveller. The best events are those which are all-inclusive, and where -isms of any kind are discouraged.

However, it's undeniable that there exists a certain kind of parent whose obsession with their own children reaches such a pitch of besottedness that they are incapable of recognising when the behaviour of their children is detracting from other peoples' enjoyment of an event, and who take great exception to this being pointed out to them.

So maybe the answer is to encourage that kind of parent to recognise their childrens' failings and take responsibility for their behaviour? In that way, the objections of adults to child-inclusive events could be forestalled.

I say this from the POV of a 63-year-old parent of two boys (now adults!) who took them with him everywhere he went (and that was to a lot of places and events, of all types) but who always tried to ensure he kept firm control on them when they were wont to behave badly or in an inconsiderate manner (as, indeed, all children do from time to time).

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: GUEST,erbert
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 08:42 AM

Relax a bit theleveller , you are in danger of letting your job get to you, affecting your personality
in quite negative intolerant antagonistic ways.

Perhaps you need a weekend break ?

It is possible to be a positive ideological activist without becoming an over-defensive obnoxious combative fool,
imagining enemies and hidden agendas where they do not exist.

I am not far off your age, and equally proud of a campaigning lifetime of politicized progressive 'issues' involvement.

Sadly, I have also encountered far too many self regarding complete knobheads
who do more counter-productive harm for our causes than if they were actually working for the 'other side'.

Look at yourself and what you are saying here.

You truly begrudge one specifically Adults Only 'Folk' event
in an entire calender of family friendly Folk Festivals ?

I am personally simply sick of my enjoyment of live Folk music being constantly spoiled
by the disruptive antics of spoiled children, encouraged by selfish inconsiderate middle-class 'creative artsy hippy' type parents.

I don't care how they try to justify and rationalise their anti social attitudes and behaviour
with unconvincing glib 'pop' theories & idealism.

I, for one, refuse to be bullied pigeonholed and denigrated for stating not unreasonable opinions.

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: theleveller
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 08:55 AM

Don't try to be patronisng, erbert, it's not funny and it's not clever.

The biggest problem with trying to change people's attitudes to issues such as ageism is apathy - until, that is, they find that it is actually being used against them. Like I said before: what would your attitude be if you were excluded from an event because of your age?

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: GUEST,erbert
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 09:28 AM

I am already excluded from far too many events I'd like to attend because I'm too skint !!!
I don't expect too be invited to many other social functions because of my stubborn refusal to wear a suit and tie.

I really don't anticipate much practical difference to my social life when I retire.
In fact, it might even pick up a bit with the local U3A widows.

"The biggest problem with trying to change people's attitudes to issues such as ageism is apathy"

well no one will ever achieve much positive change in social attitudes
by hectoring and nagging, and presenting one's genuinely valid arguements
in abrasive self-defeating ways that alienate public sympathy.

Also consider how many folk music aficionados and activists are overworked overstressed teachers
and other education and social child service workers.
Please spare a thought for their leisure time relaxation requirements
in you almighty plan to save the world from 'ageism'.


Maybe a lot of active older folk would find your overzealous professional concern on their behalf
somewhat patronising.

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: GUEST,Frug
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 09:42 AM

Hmmm....Amazing how the heat on this one has cranked up more than a touch!! However it would be naive to assume that Butlins were in this for their commitment to the folk music tradition or any other philanthropic or indeed artistic motive. Nor do I believe that there is any consideration other than generating money from a resource that would remain un/under-used in out of season months of the year. In economic terms it would appear to be a sensible commercial decision to maximise potential revenue by experimenting with different forms of entertainment. The decision to make it adult only may well stem not from an exclusivity principle but rather cost effectiveness. Perhaps they feel that it is easier/cheaper to police a load of old folkies rather than to cater for younger folk. Given that this was their first attempt it seemed to work at a certain level. For the most part the music was good, the facilities good and the accommodation good. Was it a festival in the generally held sense of the word, probably not. But it was a very cost effective way of seeing some great artists in a series of concerts in a short space of time and in comfortable surroundings. Certainly there is a lot of scope for further development and that has been alluded to in a number of posts above. It would make a lot of sense if those who have strong feelings about changes to the set up articulated them to the organisers but in a constructive way rather than with some of the vitriol that seems to have crept into the analysis. Lets face it a lot of the established folk festivals receive loads of criticism all the time e.g. Cambridge, Broadstairs etc. Its abundantly clear that one size doesn't and won't fit all. Nor should they. In the same way that folk clubs, sessions etc. are constructed in different ways so festivals or mass folk events should be encouraged to have their own focus and personality. All in all I feel that any attempt to facilitate the enjoyment of music is to be encouraged and I worry when such attempts become denigrated because they don't conform to someone view of a formula. Personal tastes and preferences inform our choices. I shudder to think that all festivals throughout the year would be carbon copies of each other.......variety and spice of life etc. As to kids at festivals...that's fine as long as they want to be there and haven't just been dragged along kicking and screaming. My kids were raised on music and concerts and festivals and are both now at the stage where they are starting their musical careers.....not exactly in the folk tradition but they are bloody good at what they do and have learned a lot from listening and attending events. I feel that its unfortunate that some people posting above can't see the positives of a new initiative........there may be scope for influence and evolution but for gods sake give it a chance. I was very sceptical about the weekend initially but it was enjoyable and cost effective and potentially could become better. So lighten up folks, be positive and keep asking yourselves.......

what is a folk festival?

Frank

Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 09:44 AM

Well it certainly isn't a Folk Festival at Butlins. More like a weekend Concert

100