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BS: Who Owns your Social Security?
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Subject: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Sawzaw Date: 28 Jul 10 - 05:28 PM Most of us have a Social Security account but who owns the money in that account? Does the government own it or do you own it? Is the money really there? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Ebbie Date: 28 Jul 10 - 05:34 PM Don't be dim, Sawz. Do you ask that question about the money in your savings account? The money is NOT there- it is out working. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Rabbi-Sol Date: 28 Jul 10 - 05:35 PM I could not care less who owns it. All I know is that I get a direct deposit into my bank account on the 3rd of each month for the rest of my life and as long as that keeps coming in I do not have to worry. You younger folks who are on the paying end as opposed to the receiving end will have to deal with this question in coming years. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Jim Dixon Date: 28 Jul 10 - 05:46 PM A Social Security account is not like a bank account. You can't withdraw money whenever you feel like it. You are entitled to a certain amount of money at certain times according to a complicated formula laid down by law. So the question "Is the money really there?" makes no sense. There is no "there" there. The only meaningful question is "Will the money be there when you are entitled to receive it?" So far, the answer is yes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: MarkS Date: 28 Jul 10 - 06:43 PM When money is taken out of your paycheck for Social Security, you are in effect making payments into an annuity, the deal being that at some point you will be able to receive payments from that annuity. How much is determined by how many dollars you (and your employer) paid in, and how long you live. Sadly, if, say, a young, single person (lets say 50ish) dies without spouse or children, that money is gone. It does not become part of the estate. Unlike bank accounts or investment accounts, the individual cannot direct it to go to some other entity or charity, or whatever, on their passing. I'm getting quite a Social Security education. Just turned old enough to collect something, but I am still working, so my payment would be reduced according to a formula decided by how much I still earn. If I wait till July of next year, I can get the full payment and continue to earn whatever. And for every year I hold off collecting after that, I will get an even greater monthly amount. It is a morbid lottery. I am betting the government that I am not going to die and they are giving me odds that I will. Ain't maturity great!! Mark |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Ebbie Date: 28 Jul 10 - 07:26 PM One thing I hadn't known for sure is that even after one is collecting Social Security but continues working, part time or whatever, meaning that one is still paying into SS, once a year they inform you of the accrued amount. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Bobert Date: 28 Jul 10 - 10:01 PM Who owns it??? The rich!!! Bush emptied it out with his tax cuts and all that money is now sitting idlely in the bank accounts of the upper 5%... That's where it is... Word on the street is that the rich are so flush with cash that they don't really know what to do with it... So they are going to do nothin' with it but just let it sit... They are not going to invest it in jobs... They are not going to give it to anyone to invest... They are just sittin' on it and that is what is killin' the US economy... So we know exactly where the money went... It got "redistributed" upwards... End of story... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 29 Jul 10 - 07:06 PM Top 5 Social Security Myths From what ought to be one of your favorite groups - MoveOn.org Myth: Social Security is going broke. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 29 Jul 10 - 07:18 PM Money deposited in banks is never idle. It is loaned out to businesses so that they can start up or expand, to individuals to buy houses or cars; interest accruing to the depositer pays, at the least, living expenses, and if spent, supports the economy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Bobert Date: 29 Jul 10 - 07:26 PM Wrong, Q... The bqanks are not making loans right now... Ask any small businessman or woman... I am one... I have a 800 credit score and have never been late on any payment... Not any... I've have to lay off my emplyees and shut my business down... All my friend who are in the same boat... All people with 30 to 40 year historoes of runnign successfull small businesses... Most have had to shut down and lay people off because the banks aren't loaning... What they are doing oughtta be against the law... They are gambling among themselves with that money and taking un-earned profits (if you can call it that) from bullshit dummy credit default schemes and other bullshit games that they have created with their bought-and-paid-for-Congress that insures that they will always have all fo the money... That's the real deal... This si all a ball game with the lower 95% getting screwed every which way... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Arkie Date: 29 Jul 10 - 07:32 PM Thanks SRS. There were two charts in something I received not long ago showing how federal money is spent. It showed a extremely large portion being spent on Social Security, Medicare, etc. The other chart showed the sources of federal income. An incredibly large amount came from payments to Social Security, etc and was larger than the expenditure. Social Security is not an entitlement supported by taxes. It is a service that citizens pay into which you can call a tax but is as much an insurance fee or investment and the service is provided to those registered and investing. Those determined to privatize Social Security are not doing so to protect the funds or to increase the funds. Their goals are to use those funds for investing and making profits with contributed money. They will put our protected funds at great risk and while the private managers will no doubt accumulate vast fortunes a bad market or two like we have just had and the social security funds are gone. If the privatizers get federal insurance then the payments will be made out of tax funds. On the other hand if the investments make large sums of profit they by reason the Social Security payments will be larger than expected. My limited experience is that the fund handlers will reap most of the real profits. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Bobert Date: 29 Jul 10 - 08:08 PM Exactly, ark... But the real issue is where exactly are they going to "invest" that money??? Derivitives and credit default swaps??? Sweat shops overseas??? I'll guarentee you they won't invest in one single American job... I mean, they are sittin' on $18T right now and aren't creating jobs so screw them... We've had 20 years of wealth being redistributed to the upper 5%... Let them eat cake... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Joe Offer Date: 29 Jul 10 - 10:36 PM Social Security money IS being invested - in the operations of the U.S. Government. It just wouldn't make sense to invest it anywhere else, as long as the Government is in a situation where it has to borrow money somewhere. Why pay interest to wealthy investors, when you could be paying it to Social Security recipients? Now, if the Government had a surplus, THEN it would make sense to invest Social Security and the remainder of the surplus in the commercial market - nationalize a phone company or something.... Now, I suppose you can get all paranoid and figure that government employees are good-for-nothing lumps who are out to steal your money - but if that's the case, then probably you should know that private enterprise employees are more-or-less the same. If that's the case, then buy gold with all your money and keep it in a sock - and hope that the sockmaking people are good workers. On second thought, maybe you ought to knit the sock yourself....or maybe you should elect a rich President who comes from a family of sock manufacturers. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Bobert Date: 29 Jul 10 - 10:53 PM Cheapest retirement fund of them all, Joe... Pay out a good 90%... Not lotta fees... And best of all??? NOt a lot of crooks tryin' to steak yer money... Lotta that goin' 'round... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Joe Offer Date: 29 Jul 10 - 11:01 PM Well, Bobert, Sarah Palin and her boyfriend Glenn Beck think all those Social Security bureaucrats are out to rob you blind. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Bobert Date: 30 Jul 10 - 10:41 AM Well, blind does come to mind, Joe... Both Ms. Sarah and Mr. Beck have blindspots when it comes to reality... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 30 Jul 10 - 03:36 PM Too bad, Bobert, that your collateral is not acceptable, or conditions are too bad in your area for banks to make loans. Banks are advertising for business in other areas, but of course they are being a lot more careful this time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 30 Jul 10 - 03:49 PM BMO (Bank of Montreal) is making loans of up to $500,000 under their small business plans. In the US, Bank of America is ready to loan to small businesses. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Bobert Date: 30 Jul 10 - 05:30 PM Yeah, Q... We have banks advertising here to make loans, too, but I don't know of anyone gettin' loans... They talk real nice when ya' make the application but wbhen it comes down to loaning, they write checks like man with no arms... Several of my freinds who are solid small business men have had to shut down the businesses and lay off their employees... Layin' folks off is real hard... I've been in business for myself since 1982 and never had to lay off anyone... So this is a first for me and lotta other people I know... And the Repubs say that if we don't extend Bush's tax cuts (to them( that it will hurt small business's... Geeze, the banks have allready done that... BTW most small businessmen don't make $250,000 a year.. B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 30 Jul 10 - 05:41 PM Isn't this a little bit like asking "Who owns your right to free speech"? You live in a society that has decided that its people have certian entitlements as of right. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Rapparee Date: 30 Jul 10 - 06:22 PM Like Rabbi-Sol, I don't care who "owns" it as long as the checks keep coming. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Sawzaw Date: 31 Jul 10 - 12:48 PM So the money paid in to the Social Security Trust Fund that is not pad out to recipients is borrowed by the Federal Government? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 31 Jul 10 - 04:01 PM Like Rapaire, happy so long as it keeps coming. Worked long enough in both the US and Canada to receive checks (cheques) from both. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Bobert Date: 31 Jul 10 - 05:41 PM Remember the 2000 election, Saws... Al Gore pointed out that the Trust Fund isn't as trusty as we thought and thought it would have been a good idea to put a lock on it... Lotta folks wished we'd done exactly that 'cause Bush & Co. borrowed money where ever they found it in order to try (unsucessfully I might add) fund the hefty tax cuts which went primarially to the folks who really don't ned more money... But here's an idea: How about the Repubs offerin' to at least be receptive to the idea of funding entitlements rather than saying that the onl;y solution is on the expense side??? Duhhhh??? I mean, I haven't heard too many Dems say that adjustments in the entitlements are off the table... Like how are we going to fix anything if one side stonewalls and just says "NO" to anything except what they want... Where is the compromise??? B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Sawzaw Date: 01 Aug 10 - 03:47 PM "Bush & Co. borrowed money where ever they found it" Did any other Administrations borrow the money in the Trust Fund or was only "Bush & Co." that borrowed it? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Bobert Date: 01 Aug 10 - 08:38 PM Yeah, they all did... Problem is that none of the others left the country on the brink of economis disaster... Now how about yer side sayin' it's willin' to negotiate in good faith on entitlements which means that you can't come to the table with an attitude that yer going to give nothing and get everything... Face it... We have long avided some tough choices that we ***all*** need to look at responsibly... Both sides... The Repubs say "Fix it on the entitlement side" and leave us alone on the funding side"... That is irresponsible... You and I don't run our households or companies like that... Yeah, it would be nice if I could just walk into my supplier and tell him that I don't wnat to pay $7.50 a sheet for drywall but guess what... I'd be drivin' an empty truck back to the jobsite... I mean, lets quit playing games here... You either want the country to survive and do well or you don't... Seems like the Repubs want it to fail??? What's that about??? Serously, Saws... What is that about??? B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Sawzaw Date: 01 Aug 10 - 09:08 PM "Now how about yer side" You automatically Assume I have sides. That I am an all wrong or all right person like you. It is hard for you to believe what with your inability to grasp facts that some people look at every issue as a separate issue and not necessarily married to any particular political persuasion or person. There are things that people do and say that I agree with and there are things that people do and say that I disagree with. I have told you when I agree with you. I have said when I agree or disagree with Obama or the Democrats. I have said when I agree or disagree with the Republicans or the Greens or the libertarians or Bush or the Jews or the Somali pirates. The fact is that everyone is right sometimes and they are wrong sometimes. You just have to put the tribal politics aside and study what they are saying and doing before you consider who they are. To do so is being narrow minded. Now for instance I listened to John Kerry talk about what would happen it the US vacated Afghanistan. It made perfectly good sense. But I don't believe that you are interested in right and wrong so much as you are interested in drawing up sides and declaring everything the "other side" says and does is wrong while declaring everything "your side" says and does is right. Bottom line is, nobody is wrong all the time and nobody is right all the time. You used to have a streak of humor but that streak is getting hard to find. You are pissed off and bitter about something and you want to take it out on someone else. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Sawzaw Date: 01 Aug 10 - 09:16 PM Now getting back to Social Security, do you agree that both "sides" have borrowed every penny of the surplus funds and spent it? This goes for Government Pensions, Military Pensions, Medicare and everything they could get their hands on. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Bobert Date: 01 Aug 10 - 09:23 PM Yeah, they have... You agree that we need to look at both the expense and income side of the balance sheet??? If so that might mean higher taxes in addition to some cuts... Right now the Repubs want it all to fall on the cuts side... That is unacceptable as it will raise our poverty rates thru the roof... BTW, the tax rates are lower now than they have been in 30 years... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email) Date: 11 Oct 10 - 05:00 AM The government has annouced today that it is going to weed out the scroungers in our society. Incapacity benefit claimants will today start being reassessed for their ability to work - part of the first phase of the Government's welfare reform programme. The move comes as new figures showed that almost £135bn had been spent over the past 10 years keeping two million people "on the sick". Claimants in Burnley and Aberdeen will be the first across the country to undergo the new test to see if they are fit for work. They will be given fresh medical evaluations to establish whether they should still be on it. The aim is to "migrate" a number of claimants from incapacity benefit on to jobseekers' allowance, income support or back into work. The re-assessment is designed to end the one-size-fits-all approach to those with health conditions and disabilities. The "shocking" figures of the Department for Work and Pensions' annual expenditure on benefits underlined the urgent financial need to deal with those on incapacity benefit. It's nothing short of a scandal that so many people simply enjoy a lifetime on generous benefits such as D.L.A. and Mobility costing the taxpayer almost £135bn. Over half of all benefit claimants have a "so called" mental health problem. The Government has to toughen up on benefit claimants. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Wesley S Date: 11 Oct 10 - 08:50 AM Richie - I'm not sure what that has to do with the American Social Security issue but thanks for sharing. Personally Sawzaw - I think we need to use the money in Social Security to fund drivers licences and free medical insurance to illegal forign workers. Esp the ones from Mexico. And don't forget - we wouldn't have Social Security in the first place if it wasn't for the Democrats. The Republican plan at the time was just to let the older American fend for themselves. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: artbrooks Date: 11 Oct 10 - 09:47 AM The Social Security monies are held in the form of interest-earning government securities. The most recent rate of return available (2007) was 4.656 percent - which is a whole lot better than my bank is paying. Technically, the money paid in is "borrowed" by the government, and this is the interest on the "loan". This has been true of every administration since the program began. BTW, illegal (and other) foreign workers can get driver's licenses in New Mexico, where I live. IMHO, this is vastly preferable to having people out there on the streets who have never taken a driving test - the ones who have passed the test are bad enough. If you want to have a national ID card to prove citizenship then institute one, but don't make something intended for one purpose serve another. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Ebbie Date: 11 Oct 10 - 12:00 PM When my mother was young there was no Social Security program. That came about in 1935. But not having Social Security helped the job market: my mother worked in a 'Poor Farm'. True. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Donuel Date: 11 Oct 10 - 12:03 PM Bobert it was Reagan who first mixed the SS bucket with the rest of the money spent by the goverment. Since cash in fungible it was thought it didn't matter. MO In a deficit economy it matters. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Greg F. Date: 11 Oct 10 - 12:41 PM Yeah, well, we all know Reagan was a senile idiot. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 11 Oct 10 - 12:50 PM I'm puzzled how they can announce the numbers of people who will be losing their benefit in advance of actually carrying out the reassessment which is supposed to decide whether previous assessments were right or wrong. It smacks very much of the Red Queen in Alice in Wonderland - "Sentence first--verdict afterwards." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: olddude Date: 11 Oct 10 - 01:04 PM Well from what I saw on TV the Social Security Medicare fraud is the gig the criminals want most of all. Set up a phony medical business, get a hold of some SSNO's and bill away. The law says any invoices have to be paid within 2 weeks ... wow so they seal a few million, close up shop reopen someplace else and the chance of getting caught is slim to none. Amazing how stupid the system is ... no program to verify the legitimacy of the medical supplier first before paying phony invoices ... I read that it runs the tune of 900+ billion conservative estimate a year ... there is the money for some real good if they fix it. And probably for peoples retirement also |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: pdq Date: 11 Oct 10 - 01:17 PM " ... no program to verify the legitimacy of the medical supplier first before paying phony invoices ... I read that it runs the tune of 900+ billion conservative estimate a year ..." ~ olddude But the people who created the system "had their hearts in the right place". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Greg F. Date: 11 Oct 10 - 01:18 PM Your question, Sawz, is idiotic on the face of it- there are no individual Social Security deposit accounts. Are your brains really there? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Bobert Date: 11 Oct 10 - 09:42 PM Well, what we have here in the US are two programs... The first is Social Security Disability where if you are at work and are seriously disabled from an injury you can tap into it... The second is SSI which is for folks who are unable to work because of mental illness or other disabilities unrelated to work... Yeah, reckon there are folks who got on these programs that are scamming the system but it rally ain't all that easy to scam the system as most applicants are turned down... Had a lot of SSI recipients when I was a social worker... Most were well deserving... I mean, like crazy people is like, ahhhhh, crazy and they can't help it but... ...SSI ain't much money so all these folks were living in poverty... Ya'll see these folks walkin' down the street arguing with themselves... Lotta them... All living in absolute poverty... SSI is a joke... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Sawzaw Date: 12 Oct 10 - 01:35 AM "Your question, Sawz, is idiotic on the face of it- there are no individual Social Security deposit accounts. Never said there was. But I get this letter every year thats says your Social Secuirty Statement so I gess it means I have an account. It not I sincerely apollogise for making a wrong assumption. My question is where is the money? Who has it? Who Owns it?. It says on that statement that by 2017 they will be payinhg out more than they are taking in and by 2047 the fund will be exhausted. I will most likely be dead by 2047 so I will not be affected but a lot of people are going to be pissed. I think they should start asking about it now. But if that sounds idiotic, just ignore me and don't worry about it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Joe Offer Date: 12 Oct 10 - 01:41 AM I don't trust these people who say we need to "privatize" Social Security. I expected a stable government pension that would give me a modest but stable income in my old age, but my government job got privatized, along with most of my pension. I followed the advice of people who appeared to be wise, and my "privatized" pension lost a lot of money. And somehow, the rich people kept getting richer. I think that somehow, there was a push to get the pensions of the little people into the market so all that infusion of cash would make the rich people richer. Can't say I'm very happy about it, but I'm surviving in reasonable comfort. I was a millionaire for a short time a few years ago, but that didn't last long. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Bobert Date: 12 Oct 10 - 07:57 AM Private entities have stock holders who want to make money... Privatizing Social Security will only insure that the folks who manage it will be taught a hundred ways to say "no"... Bottom line??? Millions of laws suits, appeals and a lot more folks living in poverty... I mean, the US already has the highest poverty rate on any developed western country... How far do the privatizers want to take the country down toward being a 3rd World country before they are happy??? B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Sawzaw Date: 12 Oct 10 - 10:49 AM Who are the stock holder? Is a large part of them pension funds? Or just greedy people? Pension funds are important shareholders of listed and private companies. They are especially important to the stock market where large institutional investors like the Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan dominate. The largest 300 pension funds collectively hold about $6 trillion in assets. In January 2008, The Economist reported that Morgan Stanley estimates that pension funds worldwide hold over US$20 trillion in assets, the largest for any category of investor ahead of mutual funds, insurance companies, currency reserves, sovereign wealth funds, hedge funds, or private equity. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: olddude Date: 12 Oct 10 - 10:59 AM Getting the SSI service when a person gets sick or disabled is a difficult job .. I suspect that is why all the lawyers are advertising on TV all the time. Getting paid for supplying phony medical equipment that you never supplied, via setting up a store front stealing some ssnos and just start billing is easy. I guess the big ones are home oxygen or power chairs. The gov pays them in two weeks. they cash the checks deliver nothing and move on in 2 months... so the money that should be going to people goes to criminals. Miami is the worst from what one criminal said. He was one of the few who actually got caught. In the interview he said he was getting over 300K per month. He just got greedy and stayed too long in the same place ... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Greg F. Date: 12 Oct 10 - 11:11 AM Maybe if they didn't stop "shrinking government" and cutting back and firing public employees there would be enough inspectors/investigators to address this sort of fraud. Oh, I forgot- government is the PROBLEM, according to St. Ronnie, Norquist & Co- not the solution. Right. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: olddude Date: 12 Oct 10 - 11:14 AM I could not agree with you more in regard to inspectors ... The TV show said there were a total of 12 full time inspectors nationwide ... Holy Cow does that tell ya something |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Sawzaw Date: 12 Oct 10 - 11:21 AM "the US already has the highest poverty rate on any developed western country" Sources please. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: pdq Date: 12 Oct 10 - 11:37 AM This year, Obama's head of Social Security is borrowing $41 billion to pay its obligations to our retired people. This is the first time since the system was set up that SS will take in less than it pays out. Doesn't this qualify as "broke" right now? Where is the new coverage? Imagine the hue and cry from the news media if this were happening under a president named Bush. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Greg F. Date: 12 Oct 10 - 12:13 PM Sorry, PeeDee, another shibboleth, beloved of the TeaBagger brain dead. Once the pig in the python passes, things will be back to normal. In the interim, a slight adjustment in the income cap will make the system solvent from here to eternity. Problem solved. Next? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 12 Oct 10 - 02:29 PM Social Security funds are invested. They are not just sitting there- they must acquire interest money. They are invested in interest-bearing federal securities. Who buys these? Extracted from Social Security Online; Trust Fund Data. 1. Special issues- Investment securities available only to trust funds. a. Certificates of indebtedness that are issued daily for the investment of receipts not required to meet current expenditures, and they mature on the next June 30 following the date of issue. b. Special issue bonds. Maturities from one to fifteen years. 2. Special issues available to the general public (marketable securities). Not issued at present, but they have been issued in the past, and could be again. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: pdq Date: 12 Oct 10 - 04:37 PM Q, You need to check out a book (any one of several) by Allen W. Smith, Ph.D., Professor of Economics Emeritus Eastern Illinois University. One of the titles is "The Looting of Social Security". There are other titles published since 1995 that are also relevant. He is, by the way, a Democrat and trashes Reagan whenever he gets a chance, but he does know his economics. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: gnu Date: 12 Oct 10 - 04:44 PM The rich. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Bobert Date: 12 Oct 10 - 08:51 PM Hey, we know that the so-called trust fund is being looted... That ain't like a secret... Why do ya'll think that Al Gore campaigned on putting the funds in a "lock box" that wouldn't get comingled with general tax revenues??? I mean, this shouldn't be a Dem V. Repub thing here... Both have been guilty of raiding those funds... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 12 Oct 10 - 10:56 PM pdq, you are correct and I am wrong. I thought the 1990 law was being followed. The Budget Enforcement Act of 1990 took Social Security out of the general budget and made it again what is called an "off budget" program. That law made it illegal to use Social Security for any purpose other than to pay Social Security benefits. The bill was signed by George Bush. Prof. Smith enlarged on his statements in letters to the Baltimore Sun, August 2010. Those letters are here. http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/business/consuminginterests/blog/2010/08/does_congress_raid_social_secu.html Congress has ignored the law. Senator Reid called it "embezzlement." Currently I am getting Social Security payments from the U. S. and from Canada, having worked for the required length of time in both countries. I hope Canada has better bookkeeping. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Sawzaw Date: 12 Oct 10 - 11:56 PM I agree with Bobert. ♥ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Sawzaw Date: 14 Oct 10 - 12:32 AM "This year, Obama's head of Social Security is borrowing $41 billion to pay its obligations to our retired people. This is the first time since the system was set up that SS will take in less than it pays out. Doesn't this qualify as "broke" right now? Where is the new coverage? Imagine the hue and cry from the news media if this were happening under a president named Bush. " I think we should demand to see the books. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Stringsinger Date: 14 Oct 10 - 10:24 AM Yes, the money is there but Wall Street Banksters want to steal it from you. Also, the Pentagon and private contractors for the defense industry. The money is being robbed to pay for CEO's salaries and two meaningless wars. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Bobert Date: 15 Oct 10 - 07:18 AM Yeah, Strings... There are thousands of defense contractors who have their hands in the Social Security cookie jar... Ike was right!!! B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Sawzaw Date: 15 Oct 10 - 09:27 AM FYI the government borrows it from the SS trust fund and pisses it away on turtle tunnels etc. Meanwhile they are serving $100 per pound Wagu in the White House and thousands of American kids are going hungry. The first Lady goes to the soup kitchen and helps out wearing her $450 sneakers. Brings some leftovers from the Whitehouse and lectures people on eating right There is how much crude laying on the bottom of the gulf after Obama does not follow the response plan, leaves it up to BP and says just fix the damn hole. Too busy playing golf while Michelle is on a 5 star trip to the Mediterranean with a few close friends? He did find time to order up some more reapers for attacks in Pakistan though. The elitites get more elite while the poor can't find a job and the war grinds on. Sounds like Thunderdome is already here. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: artbrooks Date: 15 Oct 10 - 11:36 AM Other than the fact that that Social Security funds are invested in US Government securities, as they have always been, does anyone have any evidence that the Feds are "borrowing" from the SS trust fund? Is somebody cashing in these bonds and spending the money? Interest on these investments earned $107.9 billion in 2009, by the way. I suppose that a reasonable alternative would be to print actual greenbacks to represent all of the SS contributions and put them into a big box under the bed of the Managing Trustee of the funds. That is the Secretary of the Treasury, by the way. Has anyone actually read the SS Annual Report? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: pdq Date: 15 Oct 10 - 11:54 AM The SS money is not invested, it is spent. Once spent, it certainly cannot earn interest. What is in the SS fun amounts to trillion of dollars in IOUs that draw interest. Trouble is, that interest is paid by the government which mean it is really paid by the taxpayers. That interest too is payed with borrowed money and adds to the National Debt. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: artbrooks Date: 15 Oct 10 - 12:26 PM Don't confuse debt and deficit. The value of government securities, whether you are speaking of the ones that the SS funds are in or simple savings bonds, certainly adds to the national debt. Debt is simply the amount owed on these securities, including interest. That debt cannot be retired unless the budget has a surplus. We used to have one, but the Bush II administration spent it on off-budget wars and the recession that we are currently (slowly) climbing out of compounded the problem. If the overall budget is in deficit, meaning that spending is in excess of income received, than certainly the interest on these securities adds to the deficit, since that interest is a line item in the Federal budget. The problem has two possible solutions - cut Federal spending or increase overall tax revenues. I suppose that spending cuts are possible, but as a former Federal employee and knowing how tight resources are, I doubt that is practical. Putting tax rates back to where they were before the Bush II cuts would certainly help; putting them back to where they were before the Clinton cuts would be even better. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: pdq Date: 15 Oct 10 - 12:42 PM You have fallen for this SS fund con game "hook line and sinker". About the tax cuts, the total federal revenue went up within a short time, not down. We have a spending problem, not a revenue problem. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Bobert Date: 15 Oct 10 - 06:55 PM Oh yeah, Sawz... Be sure to emphasize the 1/10th of 1% of the budget that gets spent on dumbass stuff so that folks won't really see that for every $1 the snail darter gets the defense contractors get a million $$$... Ya'll righties crack me up... No, pdq... We have 2 problems... Spending and revenues... See, liberals recognize this because that is reality but righties, as per usual, put it all on the spending side... BTW, other than cutting out the few bucks for snail darters and turtles, where do you propose making these cuts??? Please be clear... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Sawzaw Date: 15 Oct 10 - 09:39 PM "Interest on these investments earned $107.9 billion in 2009" Who paid this interest? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: artbrooks Date: 15 Oct 10 - 10:00 PM The same people that pay the interest on savings bonds, the salaries of soldiers and the cost of repairing potholes in interstate highways - among other obligations. That would be you, me and others. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Bobert Date: 15 Oct 10 - 10:25 PM Thank you, artbrooks... That's what it comes down to.... The righties complain about spending but won't step to the plate and tell US where they are going to make the cuts... Oh sure, they are gonna cut turtle tunnels and snail darter studies... Who cares??? All the bullshit rightie blog stuff that they offer up as the Holy Grail don't amount a pimple on a mangy dog's butt compared to the overall budget... But when it come down to cuts that's what they have to offer??? Shutting down the turtle tunnel and killing snail darter studies??? But they won't come out and say how they are going to make cuts that will truly impact the deficit... Might of fact, quite the opposite... They run from that discussion like pigs from a gun... Just watch how Sawz won't offer up his list of cuts... Normal... Righties are so entertaining... Ignorant??? Well, yeah... But entertainially ignorant... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Sawzaw Date: 16 Oct 10 - 12:40 AM Let me see. We pay interest to ourselves and some how that is a profit. One part of the government borrows money from the other part and pays interest on it. That means there is a profit. Ingenious. I never thought of it that way. Nothing flawed there. The United States public debt is presented by the United States Treasury as two calculations: "Debt Held by the Public", defined as U.S. Treasury securities held by institutions outside the United States Government, and the "Gross Debt," which includes intra-government obligations (e.g. money owed to the Social Security Trust fund). During FY2008, the government also accrued a non-cash interest expense of $212 billion for intra-governmental debt, primarily the Social Security Trust Fund, for a total interest expense of $454 billion. This accrued interest is added to the Social Security Trust Fund and therefore the national debt each year and will be paid to Social Security recipients in the future. Public debt owned by foreigners has increased to approximately 50% of the total or approximately $3.4 trillion. As a result, nearly 50% of the interest payments are now leaving the country, which is different from past years when interest was paid to U.S. citizens holding the public debt. Interest expenses are projected to grow dramatically as the U.S. debt increases and interest rates rise from very low levels in 2009 to more typical historical levels. CBO estimates that nearly half of the debt increases over the 2009-2019 period will be due to interest. We owe foreigners $3.4 Trillion? We are paying interest on $3.4 trillion bucks and that money goes offshore? The resulting surplus [money paid in vs money paid out] is accounted for in the Social Security Trust Fund. As of the end of calendar year 2008, the accumulated surplus stood at just over $2.4 trillion. Dang. We owe foreigners more than that and we have to pay them interest on it. Is that flawed? Projections are that current receipts will continue to exceed expenditures until 2017 (according to Charles Blahous, Special Assistant to the President for Economic Policy). Thereafter, there will be a shortfall that will be made up by withdrawals from the Trust Fund, although the Trust Fund will continue to show net growth until 2025 because of the interest generated by its bonds.[6] The Trust Fund will gradually be drawn upon to cover the difference between tax receipts and benefit payments. It will be completely depleted by 2042. Well I guess we better let our economic whiz [the only person in the US that knows secret location of the Lake Pontchartrain dam so terrorists can't blow it up] tell us where to make the cuts. Definitely not snail darters or turtle tunnels though. Maybe schools. Maybe food subsidies for hungry kids. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Owns your Social Security? From: Sawzaw Date: 16 Oct 10 - 12:30 PM "1/10th of 1% of the budget that gets spent on dumbass stuff so that folks won't really see that for every $1 the snail darter gets the defense contractors get a million $$$." I suppose the defense contractors burn it in big ovens rather than employing people that pay into Social Security and buying materials from other companies that employ people who also pay into social security. At least you realize that spending tax money on snail darters is dumbass stuff. Congrats on that. |
