BS: Stoned again...

Subject: BS: Stoned again...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Aug 10 - 07:41 AM

Nasty few days with a kidney stone, which involved me in a few days in hospital. So long as I wasn't hurting it was interesting enough, which with the former property developer in the next bed with horror stories about not having an NHS in Florida where he'd lived for years (great if you can pay through the nose), and about how to get the best price selling the wife's jewels when there's a cash flow problem.

And the bloke opposite told how he drives the hare on the track at our local dog racing stadium - when I asked if his driving meant he could affect the result of a race he told me it couldn't be done. "The bookies are watching too close".

I think the conversations in men's wards might be a bit different from those in women's.

Anyway, the reason I'm posting is because I hope there might be a few Catters out there who've experience dealing with kidney stones and living with kidney stones, because the CT scan showed there's still a couple lurking in my kidneys.

The doctors seem a bit all over the place in their advice. One said drink lots - and beer's as good as anything. Another said keep off the beer. One said don't take pain relief till you're hurting. Another said don't wait till you're hurting to take pain relief.

Subject: RE: BS: Stoned again...
From: Jack Campin
Date: 02 Aug 10 - 08:06 AM

Try this:

kidney stone prevention

If your stones are oxalate, beer may be a problem, but probably not a bad one (compared with spinach, say).

Subject: RE: BS: Stoned again...
From: gnu
Date: 02 Aug 10 - 08:38 AM

Ouch.

Subject: RE: BS: Stoned again...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Aug 10 - 09:09 AM

Thanks, Jack.

"Kidney Stones on the Net offers numerous links to kidney stone information available on the Internet. These links include several web pages produced by kidney stone sufferers which detail their personal experiences with kidney stones." Evidently there's whole sub-culture...

Subject: RE: BS: Stoned again...
From: olddude
Date: 02 Aug 10 - 09:30 AM

Boy those things hurt ... been there myself ... I have had about every rotten surgery you can do on a back and neck but that kidney stone .. folded me like a pocket knife ...

you have my sympathies for sure ... get better soon

Subject: RE: BS: Stoned again...
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Aug 10 - 10:09 AM

I had two...several years apart. The first was really bad (to me, anyway). Went to the hospital, where they let me lie there hurting for an hour while they tested to be sure it wasn't other things.... then they put in an IV and the nurse turned a valve.....and suddenly I felt nothing. Dilaudid! I happily counted ceiling tiles for vague amounts of time, until they took me for more tests...dye in the system to see where the stone was. Turns out the pressure from the test pushed the stone thru into the bladder. 3 days later, I 'excreted' it into a cup. It was unbelievable something that small could hurt that much! They say it's the closest a man will ever come to understanding childbirth.

Now...they said that diet could be part of creating stones, and I did have a smaller stone several years later. I don't 'think' I have changed my diet, but it's now been 9-10 years and no repeats.

They also said that serious stones too large to pass may be treated with ultrasound to gradually break them up, along with some chemical dissolvers. I never had to find out. They sent me to a specialist who said that, for money, they could do some tests to find out why my body made stones... I declined.

One interesting memory from the hospital: As I lay moaning on a gurney in one of those curtained alcoves, I heard footsteps coming down the hall. They paused outside, and a doctor pulled back the curtain, looked at me and asked: "Kidney stone?"
I gasped "That's..mooaann...what they think it is."
He nodded..."That's what it sounded like."
I guess all those tests could have been bypassed if they'd just called him.

Subject: RE: BS: Stoned again...
From: fat B****rd
Date: 02 Aug 10 - 11:12 AM

Sorry, no information MOH, but get well soon.

Subject: RE: BS: Stoned again...
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Aug 10 - 11:35 AM

A friend of mine had one. They treated it with ultrasound bombardment, from what I understand. AI think this may be what Bill D referred to. He said he was suspended in water during the process.

He also said that for the next few days he felt like he was recuperating from having been beaten to a pulp.

Subject: RE: BS: Stoned again...
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 02 Aug 10 - 12:21 PM

Here's some info from a site I like to use for general info, a site that uses the Harvard Medical School. There's lots info there on kidney stones.

Prevention

You can help to prevent kidney stones by drinking plenty of fluids so that you avoid dehydration. This dilutes your urine and decreases the chance that chemicals will combine to form stones.

After your doctor receives an analysis of the chemical composition of your kidney stones, he or she may be able to suggest a medication or changes in your diet that will help to prevent stones from forming in the future. Because certain medications may increase the risk of stones, your doctor may want to adjust your regular medications if you have had kidney stones.

If you have the most common type of stone, a calcium oxalate stone, you can help to prevent new stones from forming by eating an appropriate amount of calcium in your diet. Low-fat dairy products and other calcium-rich foods are recommended. Calcium in your diet binds oxalate inside the intestines to decrease the amount of oxalate that gets into the blood, so less spills into the urine. Although it is important to get enough calcium, too much calcium (for example, from a high dose of calcium supplements) can increase the risk of stone formation. If your 24-hour urine collection tests show that you excrete too much oxalate into your urine, you should avoid eating foods high in oxalate, including beets, spinach, chard and rhubarb. Tea, coffee, cola, chocolate and nuts also contain oxalate, but these can be used in moderation. Eating too much salt and meat can cause more kidney stones to form.

Please note those words IF YOU HAVE THE MOST COMMON TYPE OF STONE.

As for the beer, I believe alcohol dehydrates the body. Better lay off the beer.

As for the pain, I think both doctors were trying to say the same thing. Take a painkiller when the pain starts. Don't wait till it's really bad. Don't take it if you're feeling fine.

I'm sorry for your suffering. I hope it never happens again.

Subject: RE: BS: Stoned again...
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Aug 10 - 12:25 PM

Well, the info leenia posted makes pretty good sense. I have in recent years been taking moderate amounts of calcium, and have reduced my salt intake. I drink good beer, but VERY moderately. Perhaps my 'luck' is partly based on good behavior.

Subject: RE: BS: Stoned again...
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Aug 10 - 12:48 PM

Geez. I love chard and spinach. I drink several cups of tea a day. I sometimes remember to take calcium, but at least I have put some dairy products (yogurt and cheese) back into my diet after many years avoiding them. Good info, Leeneia.

I hope you feel better and stay better, Kevin!

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Stoned again...
From: gnu
Date: 02 Aug 10 - 01:40 PM

Anyone ever have parotid stones? The parotid is the large salivary gland under the ear(s). On Nov 23, 2007 my ENT tried to remove one from inside the mouth but failed and tried to break it up with his fingers. Note the dates and times on the pics.

He damaged the tissue and the accompanying infection went wild. I fell when I tried to sit in the chair in the hospital emergency room 10 minutes after the last pic.

Subject: RE: BS: Stoned again...
From: Charmion
Date: 02 Aug 10 - 03:01 PM

Geeee-zus, Gnu! That looks dreadful, and I bet it felt like the end of the world couldn't come fast enough.

I was an army medic back in the Cold War. During an exercise in Germany, I saw an MO deal with a middle-aged warrant officer's kidney stone in a delightfully direct fashion: he loaded up a syringe with morphine and gently pumped it into that big vein in the elbow until the poor fellow lay back, relaxed and smiled.

"All the diagnostic tests in the world won't do a blind bit of good if the patient dies of shock on the way there," he said.

Subject: RE: BS: Stoned again...
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 02 Aug 10 - 03:20 PM

I have had more than my share of kidney stones. Diet was part of the problem. I had advice from a Renal specialist, but he ended up giving me medication. I then had to take medication for the side effects of that medication. And then I was prescribed more medication to address the side effects of the second medication. This went on for a few months and I left that doctor. I went to an internist when I moved to a new town. After brief testing, he gave me a medication that has prevented any further kidney stones. It is important to be able to bring the doctor a stone for analysis. At one point I was getting stones multiple times per year. I suspect I still produce some stones, but they pass through my system with little or no effect.

Roger in Balitmore.

Subject: RE: BS: Stoned again...
From: gnu
Date: 02 Aug 10 - 03:23 PM

Dreadful... no. The dreadful part was that on August 17, Beer, visiting me on his vacation, watched me literally push the stone from under my ear to where that little "lump" is in the first pic. The ENT I saw on Sept 5 did not believe me and was rather arrogant about it. After an MRI on Oct 26, during my ENT visit on Nov 5, he showed me the pics on his PC and announced to me HE had discovered it was a stone. I said, "That's what I fuckin told you." The nurse left the room.

It got worse and he did a full parotidectomy on Dec 14... only after I ended up in emerg a second time.

Now... I had no where near the pain of a kidney stone. I had a full parotidectomy on Dec 14, which went fine. Much better than the partial on the right side in 2005... that was pain for months... but still not near the pain of a kidney stone.

Subject: RE: BS: Stoned again...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 11:24 AM

Thanks for all this. I'll fix u[p to see my GP in a few days and have atalk, and discuss options.

I haven't got a kidkey stone to analyse, though the CT scan showed I must have passed one. I suppose what I need to do is plan for the ones I know are there, and try to avoid any fresh ones getting laid down.

Right now my problem has been that every day or so I've been getting pains which are quite severe, and a bit resistant to pain relief, but they are diffuse rather than piercing, so they don't sound like a kidney stone on its way out. More likely damage from the stone that passed.

Could be a lot worse. That's one thing a spell in hospital brings home.

Subject: RE: BS: Stoned again...
From: gnu
Date: 04 Aug 10 - 11:29 AM

Indeed, McGrath. After I landed in the emerg (as I stated above) I was in a room with one 40ish gent who was diagnosed with stomach cancer, one 70ish gent who had a leg amputated due to diabetes, one 40ish guy who had liver cancer and was removed near death to be replaced by a 40ish guy who had gone off his methodone and had to be strapped in and watched by a large man in uniform.

I was released in reasonable condition in two days.