BS: Dinnertime in America

Subject: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: greg stephens
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 06:16 AM

Now, I have instructions to ring someone at dinnertime in America. Here in England, with our complex class system, dinnertime might mean 12-2PMish( mid middle class and lower) or possibly 8PMish(upper middle class and upwards. Now, what does it mean in American? When should I ring(I have figured out how to make allowance for the time zone stuff). In case there are geographical variations in usage, said person is in Minnesota I think.

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: artbrooks
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 07:21 AM

6-7 PM, +/- 1/2 hour.

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: greg stephens
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 07:33 AM

Thanks very much. Would 1PM be lunchtime then?

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: Emma B
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 07:35 AM

What Time is Dinner?

- a look at the evolution of mealtimes in the UK and US from the History Magazine

"Today we don't always agree on the names and times of our meals. Some of us have dinner at eight, while others have supper at five

The names of meals and their general times were once quite standard. Everyone in medieval England knew that you ate breakfast first thing in the morning, dinner in the middle of the day, and supper not long before you went to bed, around sundown.
The modern confusion arose from changing social customs and classes, political and economic developments, and even from technological innovations."

Personally I love the sound of 'nuncheon' eaten between dinner and supper.
Peasants were sometimes guaranteed nuntions of ale and bread on those days they worked harvesting the fields in the lengthy days of late summer and autumn, when sunset and supper came many hours after noon and dinner.

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: Jeri
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 08:44 AM

I agreed with Art before I read his post. 6-7 PM

I think it comes then because parents get home from work, kids are done with school and come in from playtime, and it's when the family can all get together. Sunday, or holiday dinners are often earlier in the day. Also, a lot of people refer to weeknight evening family meals as 'supper' interchangeably with 'dinner'.

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: maeve
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 09:06 AM

Farm families are likely to retain dinner as the big noon meal; supper as the evening meal. Of course farm families also have the option of first and second breakfast, especially during harvest time.

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: number 6
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 09:13 AM

Here in New Brunswick Canada ...

dinner is at noontime (lunch)

supper is in the evening.

back in Ontario lunch was lunch ... dinner was the meal in the evening. Supper, was, pretty well a term not used.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: number 6
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 09:17 AM

I should add ... when my wife was growing up in rural Scotland dinner was the noon time meal ... and the evening meal was referred to as 'tea'.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 09:36 AM

Jeri and Art are right, USA-wise, in general.

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: fretless
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 10:11 AM

Old blues song:

Come on and see me sometime (repeat)
Eat your breakfast 'fore you come,
Bring your dinner in your hand,
Get out before supper time.

Or maybe dinner and supper are reversed. Anyway, it's a great song. I heard it first on the Pink Anderson side of the album he cut with Rev. Gary Davis.

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: fretless
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 10:13 AM

That's Riverside RLP 12-611, by the way.

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: Becca72
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 10:19 AM

Growing up in Northern New England, "dinner" is the largest meal of the day, whether that happen at 1pm on Sunday or 6pm through the week. "dinner" and "supper" are interchangeable. "Lunch" refers to the noontime meal but doesn't always interchange with "dinner". Who knew eating could get so complicated!

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: MMario
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 10:26 AM

I'm with Becca;
weekdays we had lunch (noonish) and dinner; though it could be lunch and supper. Whether supper or dinner it was served around 5:30 ish - which was the usual time Dad got home and had showered.

Sundays we had breakfast; DINNER (after church services so about 1 pm) and then supper (in the evening - later then weekday dinners)

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 10:52 AM

Not forgetting, brunch and here in the UK ' tiffin '

Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 10:53 AM

Greg, who told you to ring this person at dinnertime? Are you sure there's no mischief afoot? Because most people I know resent getting calls at dinnertime.

Before we had the protection of no-call laws, telephone solicitors made it a point to call at dinnertime, when the probability of people being home is high. They were particularly resented for that.

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: Maurice Mann
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 11:28 AM

We always had breakfast first thing, then dinner at dinner time, tea at tea time and supper at supper time. Lunch was a snack between breakfast and dinner.

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: Emma B
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 11:51 AM

No 6 I regret to say as a regular visitor to Scotland that the ritual of 'High Tea' has all but disappeared from most hotels etc

High tea (usually served anytime from 4-5.30pm) was intended to be the main meal of the day in many houses in Scotland.
High' was the term used to denote that the meal was being eaten at the main table and not at any small side table which might have been used for breakfast or a drink of tea.

Traditionally High Tea was much better value than dinner starting as it did with continuous tea and toast well supplied with butter a main course of steak pie or fish or bacon and eggs with chips etc followed by a cake stand groaning under a mixture of scones and fancy cakes - no English tea time plate of cucumber sandwiches here :)

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: Rapparee
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 11:59 AM

Heck, I just eat from the time I get up until I go to sleep.

Saves a lot of worry about things.

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: frogprince
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 12:51 PM

On a Minnesota farm in a previous century, we ate breakfast, dinner, and supper in that order, except for Christmas Dinner and Thanksgiving dinner at noon. Now, in small town Michigan, we eat breakfast, lunch, and dinner, with the exceptions of holiday dinners at variable times and an occasional brunch.

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 02:44 PM

In southern Minnesota in the early thirties, that midday meal was dinner, and supper was in the evening.

But about the time I was in first grade (1935), we were sent to walk home for lunch. And lunch was what it remained thereafter, both for me and, as far as I can recollect, the rest of the family.

The evening meal was supper, both before and after "dinner" at noon switched to being "lunch". But the noon meal, whether called dinner or lunch, was a light meal--a sandwich maybe, or soup, or some leftovers from previous suppers.

The word "dinner" was seldom used in our family except for those Sunday and holiday ceremonial meals which were always eaten in the early afternoon, say 2:00 p.m., unless some of our chronically tardy relatives held it up until late afternoon. In which case there was not likely to be a group meal called supper, and we kids might salve our teenage hungers with snacks on our own.

"Tea" did not exist, except as a hot beverage, alternative to coffee, or maybe iced tea in the summer. Not a meal, in other words.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: gnu
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 04:00 PM

Even the time of The Last Supper is in debate and that was a long while back. It will never end.

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: frogprince
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 04:11 PM

Uncle Dave reminded me of the detail I forgot; we school-bused to school, so had "lunch" there. I never thought until this moment about the same meal being "dinner" at home but "lunch" at school.

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 04:39 PM

I think it comes then because parents get home from work, kids are done with school and come in from playtime,

I'd call that teatime.

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Aug 10 - 06:23 PM

I have dinner after 6PM in the evening and lunch(eon) at c. midday. My wife has dinner at c. midday and supper after 6PM.
I have supper late evening.
We only agree on breakfast.
Married over 50 years and never changed what we call our meals.
She is from the south and I have parents from the north.
It's bred into the genes.

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 08:57 AM

For us dinner was at noon, supper at six, lunch was what you took to work with you. However, I do have a slightly related question..why is it in America that the main course of any meal is called the "entree"? Is the entree not the appetizer course by its very definition..entree.

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: Emma B
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 09:03 AM

The dictionaries are confused too :)

a couple of on line examples -

a. The main dish of a meal.
b. A dish served in formal dining immediately before the main course or between two principal courses.

a dish served before a main course
(Chiefly U.S.) the main course of a meal

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 11:21 AM

It does seem that only US dicts. define the opening course as the main meal however and I often wonder why that is.

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 11:41 AM

from WordWeb:
Supper:
"1.A light evening meal; served in early evening if dinner is at midday or served late in the evening at bedtime"
2.A social gathering where a light evening meal is served"

Dinner:
The main meal of the day served in the evening or at midday
""dinner will be at 8"; "on Sundays they had a large dinner when they returned from church"

So, the most common understanding seems to be that 'dinner' is usually used for the most important meal, or for 'special' meals. Some days, we neved HAD 'dinner', but only lunch & supper. Christmas & Thanksgiving were always 'dinner'.

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: Emma B
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 11:49 AM

Except when it's Sunday Lunch :)

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 12:11 PM

Re reference above to 'tiffin' in the UK [Dave H 1052 AM]: I have never in all my 78 years heard the word used of a meal in England. Chambers & Concise Oxford Dictionaries both confirm my impression that this was a word used exclusively under the British Raj in India for "lunch or a light meal".

~Michael~

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: frogprince
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 12:28 PM

When I googled "Sunday dinner", I got THIS . I think I'd rather have Sunday lunch!!

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 12:33 PM

From the handy-dandy compleat OED:
entree Citing only the references related to cookery.

2. a 'made dish' served between the fish and the joint.
First in English in Thackeray, 1850, Pendennis. "Two little entrees of sweetbread and chicken."
Sir H. Thompson, 1880, in Food & Feeding, "A family dinner may consist of soup, fish, entree, roast and sweet."

From the days when every successful man had a 'corporation' (big belly).

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: artbrooks
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 12:40 PM

Americans use a lot of words derived from French for things having to do with eating, and entree (US) comes directly from entrée (French). My Larousse only defines the one with the other...does anyone have a decent French dictionary and can tell us (in English, s'il vous plait) what the French think it means?

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 12:42 PM

Merriam Webster Collegiate Dictionary
Entree
2. The main course of a meal in the U. S.

Dunno when the difference came in, perhaps (guess) in leaner times when the average complete meal in the U. S. was cut down to appetizer (or soup), entree (main course) and dessert.

(The word also used in music, and with the act or manner of entering.)

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: Emma B
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 12:57 PM

Certainement mon cher art

En France il y a

L'Apéritif (Aperitif)
L'Entrée (Appetizer)
Le Plat Principal (Main course)
Le Fromage (Cheese)
Le Dessert (Dessert)
et
Le Digestif (Digestif)

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: artbrooks
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 01:10 PM

Mercí, mon belle Emma.

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: Charmion
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 01:10 PM

And don't forget les hors d'oeuvres, with which we spoil our appetite in the salon while drinking les apéritifs before the footman announces that "Madame est servie" and we all troop into the salle de dîner.

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 01:23 PM

At a buffet dinner served in a local hotel dining room recently, the horse doovrees were served in a separate room near the entrance. One offering was oysters on the half shell, another was crab on bits of toast.
I did scant justice to the rest of the meal.

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: Monique
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 01:31 PM

The Petit Larousse dictionary defines l'entrée as the dish served after the hors d'œuvre and before the meat. But this order implies that there's no fish served. So you can also have:
l'apéritif, le hors d'œuvre (hot or cold), l'entrée, le poisson (fish), la viande (meat), le fromage, le dessert, le café, le pousse-café (digestif).
So we French are not the only ones having this dinner/supper mess!

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 01:32 PM

Dinnertime in America includes 87 million cases of food poisoning per year primarily from Samonella in poultry. Only 5,000 of those cases result in death.

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: artbrooks
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 01:50 PM

Wwll, since it is now time here for le déjeuneur, I think I'll go get a burger and a beer.

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: Emma B
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 02:09 PM

only 5000?

errrrr... art, I suggest you read this après déjeuner :)

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 04:39 PM

Thanks, Emma. Salmonella is omnipresent, so nice to see use is possible for the little critter (If only in jest).

Artbrooks, I am thinking about making hamburgers for dinner (me), supper (my wife) tonight.
Angus lean ground beef, finely chopped onion, ground dried oregano, a little Hy's Steak Seasoning, a little flour, white pepper.

Served on a bun with sliced onion, tomatoes, old cheddar cheese; gherkin pickles on the side, with a vegetable salad to start. A local beer or Okanagan wine (British Columbia) to drink, followed by freshly ground and brewed Mexican coffee.

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 05:03 PM

>>Mercí, mon belle Emma.<<


MA belle Emma, svp, mon cher Art!

~Michel~

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: Joe_F
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 08:37 PM

You may be shooting at a moving target. See my blog on the subject.

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: artbrooks
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 10:06 PM

Jay regret kay mon frency ne paw bien...or are you implying that Emma is a telephone company?

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: JennieG
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 01:42 AM

In country Oz last century we had breakfast, dinner and tea.

When Himself and I entwined our lives together 36 years ago it became breakfast, lunch and dinner.

The mid-morning break used to be called "smoko" because manual workers would break for a cuppa (tea, of course - no coffee for those blokes), something to eat and a smoke.

The mid-afternoon break doesn't seem to have a name.

Cheers
JennieG

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: mousethief
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 01:55 AM

Salmonella

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 02:04 AM

greg stephens,
Is there any way to contact the person (other than the phone call) and ask for an actual time?

rags

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 02:54 AM

Dinnertime? that's the time in American when the phone solicitors call (despite the "do not call" lists). Oh, except in the rural Midwest where I'm from, where dinner is at noon.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 04:01 AM

According to Doctor Johnson, dinner is "the chief meal; the meal eaten about the middle of the day".

Nowadays, as I only eat two meals a day. I have a late Breakfast (break my fast), then have my dinner at teatime or later. I don't think I'd use the word dinnertime as it's too ambiguous.

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 01:21 PM

Years ago, My wife and I were in Leith, Scotland at our dinner time (American, about 6pm) and went into a likely looking dining room.
The food variety was large, excellent quality, and my wife and I dined well and happily. The pork chops were excellent.
They called it high tea.

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 07:04 PM

And if you'd gone into a chip shop you could have had a supper at any time of day. (fish supper = fish and chips etc)

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: gnu
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 07:24 PM

I am eating a BBQd steak as I type this. 20:25H. I call it delicious.

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 08:05 PM

8:25PM?
When I was employed, dinner with da boss or sightseers from the head office (Tranna) often was at 8PM, after drinks starting at 5PM. I would be well-sozzled by the time we sat down, until I started by having a pre-prandial dinner before the affair started.

In Spain, the evening meal was served in hotel dining rooms starting at 10:00PM or so. In the Madrid area, before tapas spread there, I was lucky to know of a so-called American cafe that served food earlier, and I would snack there.

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Aug 10 - 04:18 AM

>And if you'd gone into a chip shop you could have had a supper at any time of day. (fish supper = fish and chips etc<

... & nowadays of course we have the widespread phenomenon of the "All-Day Breakfast" ~~ surely inspired by G K Chesterton's dictum that if you want to eat well in England you should have breakfast 4 times a day.

~Michael~

Subject: RE: BS: Dinnertime in America
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Aug 10 - 02:13 PM

In N. Am, the all-day breakfast has spread widely; some restaurants serve little else. In Calgary, the Pancake House and the Egg something-or-other, among others.

One reason may be that the eatery can get by with short-order cooks (fast, simple food only). Pancakes and waffles, eggs, bacon or sausage and toasted bread are the usual offerings here.