Lyr Req: Sally Garden / Sally Gardens

Subject: Sally Garden
From: amo
Date: 23 Aug 99 - 01:42 PM

Does anbobody know more verses of this "Sally Garden"? The two I know are:

Down by the Sally Garden,where my love and I did meet She passed the Sally Garden whith little snow-white feet She bet me take love easy, as the leaves grow on the tree But I being young and foolish, whith her did not agree.

In a field down by the river, my love and I did stand And on my leaning shoulder, she layed her snow-white hand She bet me take life easy, as the grass grows on the wears. But I was young and foolish, and now I am full f tears-

Subject: RE: Sally Garden
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Aug 99 - 01:52 PM

Hi, Amo - there's something different about the database search engine, and I'm having trouble finding all our versions. if you search for sally you'll find most of 'em.
click here for the original (?) by Yeats.
There have been some threads on this song. Search the Forum for sally
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Sally Garden
From: amo
Date: 24 Aug 99 - 11:41 AM

Thanks. I searched for "sally garden" - and coulnd't find it.

Subject: RE: Sally Garden
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 24 Aug 99 - 01:22 PM

Hi- TRouble with titles is that you have to get them exactly.
Try Sally Gardens or, better yet, Sally Garden*

Subject: RE: Sally Garden
From: SingsIrish Songs
Date: 24 Aug 99 - 07:45 PM

Even "Down By the Sally Gardens".......

Subject: RE: Sally Garden
From: SingsIrish Songs
Date: 24 Aug 99 - 07:58 PM

Amo,

The lyrics are a poem by W.B. Yeats and that was only 2 verses (the ones you have). Thus any other verses would not be "originals".

SingsIrish

Subject: RE: Sally Garden
From: David
Date: 24 Aug 99 - 10:59 PM

amo,

Yeats quite probably took the substance of his two-verse poem from the song "The Rambling Boys of Pleasure", which has four verses. According to Paddy Tunny, Yeats subtitled his "An old song resung" but that subtitle isn't in my Yeats collection. You might check that one out.

David

Subject: RE: Sally Garden
From: Mark Clark
Date: 24 Aug 99 - 11:14 PM

Does anyone know whether there is a relationship between "Sally Garden" and a song known as "Rose Connaly" or "The Willow Garden"? The meter seems the same and "Sally Garden" could certainly be sung to the "Rose Connaly" melody.

Thanks,

- Mark

Subject: RE: Sally Garden
From: David
Date: 25 Aug 99 - 02:39 AM

Mark,

I don't know the tune of the other songs you mention, but the word "sally" means willow.

David

Subject: RE: Sally Garden
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 25 Aug 99 - 09:03 AM

I started a thread on Willow Garden last year. It may give you more information. I don't know how to do a 'Blue Clicky Thing', but was able to find it by searching 365 days and Willow Garden.

Subject: RE: Sally Garden
From: alison
Date: 25 Aug 99 - 08:20 PM

Willow Garden

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Sally Garden
From: Mark Clark
Date: 25 Aug 99 - 10:16 PM

Well, if Sally really means Willow in some frame of reference I don't understand then the "Sally Garden" seems to be closely related to DOWN IN A WILLOW GARDEN.

Thanks,

- Mark

Subject: RE: Sally Garden
From: David
Date: 26 Aug 99 - 03:55 AM

Mark,

Thanks for the words to the Willow Garden. I wasn't familiar with it and it obviously has no relation to Yeats' Salley Garden except that it is set in a willow garden, has strikingly similar first two lines and is in basically the same meter.

I am confident about sally or salley meaning willow although I can't say where I learned it. further tomorrow. I do know that the scientific name for the willow genus is salix, and that might have some bearing.

David

Subject: RE: Sally Garden
From: SingsIrish Songs
Date: 26 Aug 99 - 04:55 AM

Though the Oxford English Dictionary has no mention of the Irish "derivative" (for lack of better term)...but I looked up "willow" and "garden" in my Irish/English dictionary (use it for various words in songs only--don't speak the language) and found this:

saileach (willow) nominative case-- sail

gairdín OR garraí (garden)

someone told me "willow gardens" in Irish would be
"gairdíní saileach" [willow garden = gairdín saileach]
and yet someone else said "garraí sailí", though I guess
it depends on how it is used in the sentence....

So it could very well be that Sall(e)y Garden(s) is an anglicised version of the Irish words...

SingsIrish

Subject: RE: Sally Garden
From: IanC
Date: 26 Aug 99 - 07:56 AM

Sallow is the name in English for a number of species of Willow (e.g. Yellow Sallow). These are frequently referred to colloquially as Sally due to the way the -ow ending is pronounced, certainly in East Anglia (they might be called Sally or Saller depending on the location). I wonder why we don't call willows "Willy"?

Subject: RE: Sally Garden
From: Mark Clark
Date: 26 Aug 99 - 01:00 PM

David,

Thanks for filling in the salix/salley connection. I was/am totally ignorant of the philology of the word willow.

As to there being no relation between the songs, don't you think the subjects are quite similar? Couldn't Willow Garden be an elaboration of Yeats' theme? Or, could Yeats have heard the folk material and adapted it to his own purpose?

True, Yeats' lover doesn't murder the object of his affections but that seems to be the main difference. Of course the melodies are different but they contain many of the same notes.

- Mark

Subject: RE: Sally Garden
From: SingsIrish Songs
Date: 26 Aug 99 - 01:59 PM

Other than the Willow Garden and the "young 'lovers'", I don't see much connection...the tune (according to the forum) is Rosin the Beau which is quite different from Down By the Sally Gardens. The Traditional Ballad Index [ http://www.csufresno.edu/folklore/BalladSearch.html ] has a reference (search for "Willow Garden"), but no date...a date would be interesting for comparing the timeframes of both songs.

(..however, it is no surprise that lots of the notes are the same since there are only 7 notes to work with (plus their sharps and flats..) BIG SMIRK!

Subject: RE: Sally Garden
From: David
Date: 27 Aug 99 - 02:43 AM

Mark and SingsIrishSongs,

Thanks for all the dictionary digging and lyrics looking you've done.

As far as which came first, I think it might be the other way around. As I mentioned above Yeats probably used the traditional Irish song, The Rambling Boys of Pleasure as the basis for his poem. One of the verses:

Down by yon flowery garden, where me and my true love do meet I took her in my arms and to her I gave kisses sweet She bade me take life easy, just as the leaves fall from yon tree But I being young and foolish, with my own true love could not agree.

When I first read the words to the Willow Garden song, I thought it might be a parody. But I don't know about that.

David