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BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)

Stilly River Sage 20 Oct 10 - 11:38 AM
katlaughing 20 Oct 10 - 12:06 PM
Stilly River Sage 20 Oct 10 - 08:22 PM
katlaughing 20 Oct 10 - 10:35 PM
Stilly River Sage 20 Oct 10 - 10:43 PM
Amos 20 Oct 10 - 11:27 PM
katlaughing 21 Oct 10 - 12:14 AM
katlaughing 02 Nov 10 - 09:19 PM
Bill D 02 Nov 10 - 09:29 PM
katlaughing 02 Nov 10 - 11:02 PM
Janie 04 Nov 10 - 10:43 PM
Janie 04 Nov 10 - 10:51 PM
Little Hawk 05 Nov 10 - 12:58 PM
katlaughing 05 Nov 10 - 02:08 PM
gnu 05 Nov 10 - 02:13 PM
Jack the Sailor 05 Nov 10 - 02:14 PM
Little Hawk 05 Nov 10 - 03:12 PM
Little Hawk 05 Nov 10 - 03:15 PM
Jack the Sailor 05 Nov 10 - 03:20 PM
Stilly River Sage 05 Nov 10 - 03:39 PM
Jack the Sailor 05 Nov 10 - 03:42 PM
gnu 05 Nov 10 - 03:52 PM
Little Hawk 05 Nov 10 - 06:51 PM
McGrath of Harlow 05 Nov 10 - 07:17 PM
Jack the Sailor 05 Nov 10 - 07:19 PM
Little Hawk 05 Nov 10 - 07:56 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 05 Nov 10 - 07:58 PM
Little Hawk 05 Nov 10 - 08:26 PM
Jack the Sailor 05 Nov 10 - 08:35 PM
Little Hawk 05 Nov 10 - 09:00 PM
Jack the Sailor 05 Nov 10 - 10:57 PM
katlaughing 05 Nov 10 - 11:23 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 05 Nov 10 - 11:39 PM
DougR 06 Nov 10 - 01:09 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 06 Nov 10 - 05:29 AM
Little Hawk 06 Nov 10 - 11:43 AM
Jack the Sailor 06 Nov 10 - 11:47 AM
Little Hawk 06 Nov 10 - 11:54 AM
GUEST 06 Nov 10 - 01:55 PM
GUEST,999 06 Nov 10 - 02:08 PM
DougR 06 Nov 10 - 02:20 PM
Little Hawk 06 Nov 10 - 02:23 PM
GUEST,999 06 Nov 10 - 02:28 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 06 Nov 10 - 02:36 PM
Jack the Sailor 06 Nov 10 - 02:48 PM
Little Hawk 06 Nov 10 - 02:57 PM
DougR 07 Nov 10 - 01:12 AM
Jack the Sailor 07 Nov 10 - 09:44 AM
Little Hawk 07 Nov 10 - 10:57 AM
GUEST,999 07 Nov 10 - 11:07 AM
Jack the Sailor 07 Nov 10 - 11:19 AM
Little Hawk 07 Nov 10 - 12:04 PM
Stringsinger 07 Nov 10 - 02:00 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 07 Nov 10 - 10:00 PM
DougR 08 Nov 10 - 12:13 AM
Jack the Sailor 08 Nov 10 - 12:21 AM
Little Hawk 08 Nov 10 - 12:30 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 08 Nov 10 - 12:28 PM
DougR 09 Nov 10 - 12:11 AM
Little Hawk 09 Nov 10 - 02:03 AM
Jack the Sailor 09 Nov 10 - 12:28 PM
Amos 09 Nov 10 - 01:54 PM
Jack the Sailor 10 Nov 10 - 12:01 PM

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Subject: US: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Oct 10 - 11:38 AM

http://lessig.blip.tv/file/4266077/

It's important, in so many ways. Lawrence Lessig has distilled his message into the most important 18 minutes you'll spend this year, if you'll take the time to listen. Please do.

This is his TED talk in San Antonio, TX on Oct 16, 2010.

SRS


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Subject: RE: US: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Oct 10 - 12:06 PM

WOW!!!!!! I am sending the link to everyone I know, PLUS my Congresspeople. That is brilliant and I will be joining the organization mentioned: Fix Congress First.

Thank you so much for posting this!


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Oct 10 - 08:22 PM

This is an elegant talk, with one of the great video displays that Lessig is famous for. Back up to the top again . . .


SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Oct 10 - 10:35 PM

It is damn good and everyone who really does care needs to see it. It should be required viewing by ALL of Congress and their aides, etc. Thanks, again, SRS.


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Oct 10 - 10:43 PM

Maybe it needs a more catchy thread title. Any suggestions? "Required Viewing for Congress"?


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: Amos
Date: 20 Oct 10 - 11:27 PM

Excellent talk. Sorry I'm late!!


A


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: katlaughing
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 12:14 AM

Or, maybe "We've lost the Republic Unless YOU watch this!?" Not sure I could fit it all in.:-)


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 09:19 PM

On this, our Election Day, THIS still needs to be listened to, sent out, shared, etc., etc....for real change.

Thanks, again, SRS, for posting it.


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 09:29 PM

well..I missed it first time around. I'll watch tomorrow.


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 11:02 PM

Stick with it, Bill...past the fat kids, sugar and corn...getting the gov. back serving THE people is his ultimate message.


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: Janie
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 10:43 PM

Stilly, I watched the video the night you posted the link, but have not had time to post any comment.

Now I say thanks. I hope you don't mind, but I have posted a link to this thread (and thus, your link) to the current long running thread to which it seems most germaine.


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: Janie
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 10:51 PM

Oops. Should have said "lengthy" instead of long-running.

And although the Lessig lecture is germaine to that thread, I think it is not about this particular election, and deserves to remain a separate thread.

Again, thanks for linking to wonderful food for thought.


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 12:58 PM

That is IT, Stilly. Brilliant speech! Lessig has identified the problem accurately. It is not, as LEJ was arguing with me awhile back, a "conspiracy theory". It is not a monolithic conspiracy. It is simply a way of doing things that comes naturally to the wealthiest entities in the society, and they do it because it makes them wealthier....they buy out the government through funding campaigns and lobbying congressmen and presidents. The people have lost control of the government because the big financiers and corporations have taken over the government through the power of money.

And that is exactly what I've been saying.


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 02:08 PM

Janie and LH, be sure to see the Fix Congress thread, too. It is a direct relation to this. Thanks, again, SRS!


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: gnu
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 02:13 PM

Good stuff! Wish I could join. Maybe I can get a Canuck franchise, fixparliament.ca. Maybe I could ask Airbus for some coin to get started... (Canuck joke).


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 02:14 PM

It is funny that LH agrees with this but not with the point made by the satire on Genie's thread.

The Tea Party being angry at big government, waste, earmarks and spending but not at corn subsidies for big business is, to my mind, a perfect example of them hitting themselves in the nuts with the metaphorical tea pot.


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 03:12 PM

The satire on Genie's thread is couched in such primitive, stupid, and stereotypically insulting terms that I object to it simply on that basis. I do not object to the actual point it's making (which I agree with), but to how that point is being expressed. It adopts sleazy, hate-filled tactics which most of the people here would despise, were those same kind of tactics being used by "conservatives" to attack people who vote for the Democrats.

Yes, the Tea Party people do not understand the situation. Their anger at "big government" itself is naive, because they don't seem to understand the role of the huge privately owned business and banking forces that are controlling the government through campaign contributions and lobbying.

However, it is as silly to characterize every Tea Party supporter as a knuckle-dragging, beer-chugging, NASCAR-watching, congenital idiot called "Bubba"...as it would be to characterize every "liberal" as a tree-hugging, limp-wristed, bisexual, latte-drinking dipstick named "Virgil" who wants to send "death panels" into your home and dispose of your grandparents.

Get what I mean? If you resent cheap tactic being used by the other side, how can you justify using them yourself? If you are opposed to blind prejudice when it comes your way, why practice it yourself on someone else?

The people you are dealing with on the other side do not have 3 heads and come from Pluto. They don't drink blood. They're real people, just like you. If you aren't willing to deal with them as real, complex people who have a great variety of individual reasons for what they do and what they believe...they you're probably not much better than you think they are.


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 03:15 PM

And that was a philosophical statement about a great many righteous people in general on the Left and the guy who wrote the article Genie linked to, not a summary of the specific character faults of Jack the Sailor. Thought I'd better add that, just in case, so it is well understood what I had in mind.


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 03:20 PM

Little Hawk,

Maybe you can you can tell Genie that you despise the tactic rather than telling her what you hypothetically think she would do and chastising her for that?

You would still be wrong in your perception of the piece but at least there would be some logic in your wrongness.


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 03:39 PM

Lawrence Lessig is brilliant, concise, and one of those people I always sit up to listen to when I see his name turn up in the news. He spoke at my university a few years ago and it was not only riveting but smart and funny, so he really knows how to get and keep an audience.

Janie, feel free to pass along the link. I don't wade into too many of the political threads these days, except to settle a small bet with myself about who started it, but it certainly could fit in many of them. Too often now I can name exactly who started what thread based upon the title and the argumentative angle displayed. After the first few years of duking it out here at Mudcat with some of those who are here only for politics, I realized it was a total waste of time. They (conservative and liberal) don't want discuss, they want to preach. If you disagree, they go for ad hominem attacks. Maturity means learning to avoid those individuals who want only to bludgeon others with their opinions.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 03:42 PM

http://www.fixcongressfirst.org/


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: gnu
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 03:52 PM

Easy... easy...


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 06:51 PM

Okay, Jack, that certainly sounds reasonable. I shall do exactly as you advise, and say, "Genie, it is the style and the tactic of that article you linked to in your thread that I don't care for. I make no judgement on what you would hypothetically do in regards to that situation nor do I chastise you for it."

Excellent link to "Fix Congress First"! I can't take the pledge, because I'm not a US citizen, but it sounds like a hell of a good idea to me.


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 07:17 PM

Jumping from thread to thread like that, LH, could be a bit confusing to anyone who hadn't been following the other thread which contains the link to the article you're on about.


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 07:19 PM

The link is here too


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 07:56 PM

Yeah, I realize that, McGrath, so I have posted the same, plus a few more comments, on Genie's original thread where she links to the article.


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 07:58 PM

THANK YOU!!...I hope it saves me some typing. I hope Bobert sees it!
I was even scolded on here about being a 'broken record' because I've been insisting that 'corruption', and people behind the scenes, bribing either or both parties....and the Rap of the politicians was just bullshit, to allow them a seat at the feeding trough!!!!..and its BOTH PARTIES!...so, if I bitch about some of the ones in now, or the way 'health care' was passed to stuff the pockets of the medical special interests...I'm not being a right wing Nazi!!!!!! When I refer back to the Constitution, I'm not being a Tea party radical.

Jeez...thanks for the link, Stilly. I'll remind you of it, next time you jump my shit!...(wink)

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 08:26 PM

Yes, indeedy. People have to stop jumping to instantaneous partisan conclusions based on some fragment of what someone has said, and look at the entirety of what the person says. That video explains the essential problem in the USA to a "T". Just follow the money trail and you will see how the government has fallen into control of the moneyed few at the top of the feeding chain.

Election campaigns should be limited to only 8 weeks, as is the case in most western democracies. Corporate campaign contributions should not be permitted at all. Lobbying Congress should not be permitted at all. Matter of fact, there should be a public purse available that modestly funds all the candidates equally during the 8 week campaign...and that gives them all equal air time on the mass media...and a media which allows THEM to say what they want to say and to be interviewed at length in regards to that afterward, rather than forcing them to give brief answers to pre-cooked and manipulative questions asked by some jerk like that interviewer on CNN. (the guy with the beard, I forget his name at the moment, but he's there constantly, it seems)


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 08:35 PM

Lobbying Congress should not be permitted at all.

That is a constitutional right.


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 09:00 PM

Fine. So change the Constitution. There are provisions in place for doing that. Hold a new constitutional convention!

Another thing to consider is this: No society should necessarily tie itself to ANY documents written a very long time ago and expect those documents to suffice for present conditions.

That's what religious fundamentalists do in regards to documents like the Bible and the Q'ran. That leads to difficulties and injustices, doesn't it?

So does a fundamentalis political adherence to a document written in the 1770s when you try to apply it now to a society in the 1900s or the 2000s. Things have changed radically in 200+ years.

What really needs to be done is to repeatedly hold a Constitutional Covention and change and renew the Constitution probably every 20 or 30 years to update it regularly as society changes...and this was recommended by Thomas Jefferson! And I quote from Gore Vidal's essay: Time For a People's Convention

"Thomas Jefferson wanted to hold a constitutional convention at least once a generation, because, as he said, "you cannot expect a man to wear a boy's jacket". As it turned out, the jacket has been so re-shaped over the past two centuries that it is now a straitjacket for the people at large and satisfying to no one except those who gain election...and profits...from a most peculiar institution."

The Constitution of the United States has long become archaic. It is worded in a fashion which is now being used to betray the original spirit that it was written in. It is, in any case, largely ingnored by people, except when they focus on some small bit of it to back some specific argument they have in mind. (Just as people do with the Bible! They read it selectively to suit their momentary argument and they disregard the rest.) It must be modernized and changed or it can no longer serve the purposes for which it was intended. Its architects did not envision the kind of technological society we have today, and the Constitution they created, though very progressive for its time, is not adequate to deal with the modern world of mass communications, multi-national corporations, and large-scale urbanization of the land.


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 10:57 PM

You have plenty of audacity tonight.

One of the reasons I came here is that Constitution, so tread lightly please.

We would have to change the constitution to bar Lobbying. There is a right to petition the government. There is no right to do that publicly. I think that if all lobbying had to be done in public documents, on line or in front of C-span video cameras, the government would take huge strides toward going back to being of the people and by the people.


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 11:23 PM

It also wouldn't work to make the media give away a bunch of airtime, that is their bread and butter. In my and Rog's case, literally, as he's been in media all of his life. I do agree with limiting the spending and the length of campaigns AND where the funding comes from.


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 11:39 PM

Change the Constitution??...Hmmm...I'd be happy if some of our 'Representatives' would, at least, read it, and be held to it, or be charged with perjury, when caught breaking their oath to uphold it!

This country would NOT be waist deep in....(well, I'll be nice, this time)....waist deep in it, if they would have just upheld it, represented the people, WHO TRUSTED THEM and VOTED for them, and stop pandering to the lowest common denominator of intelligence!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: DougR
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 01:09 AM

"We've lost the Republic."

Where did it go?

Did I listen to the 18 minutes of predictible liberal ranting?

No.

We haven't lost the Republic.

The existence and influence of the Tea Parties prove that.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 05:29 AM

We haven't lost the Republic.
The existence and influence of the Tea Parties prove that.
DougR

There we go....somebody thinking it through!...Some of you might want to try it...and I bet you Doug didn't even hurt himself doing it!

Actually, that's quite liberal...in the true sense!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 11:43 AM

Interesting point, guys! Yes, if it is possible for a 3rd or 4rth party to arise now and then to challenge the great phony Duopoly that has long had a stranglehold on politics in the USA...then there IS still some hope for the Republic.

There is still the possibility of change. There is still the possibility of breaking the power of the Duopoly.

And THAT is why the media will do everything in their power to ridicule, discount, and demonize any third or fourth party that arises in the USA...whether it be on the Right or the Left...whether it be the Tea Party or the Libertarians or the Green Party or anyone else who isn't a Democrat or a Republican.

The $ySStem doesn't want voices independent of the Duopoly to be heard. If they are heard, it doesn't want them to be taken seriously. The same people who own the mass media and who practice "divide and conquer" by putting CNN and MSNBC up against Fox, and the Dems up against the Repubs, does NOT want you voting for or believing in anyone else but the official Duopoly...the 2 party system. Depend on that. They will attack the Tea Party or any other new party simply because they didn't think of it themselves, and they don't (yet) control it.


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 11:47 AM

DougR GfS

Don't the people on say we have to "take it back?"

LOL
LOL
LOL

If WE have lost it, WE have lost it to YOU!!


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 11:54 AM

You note how the mass media is totally ignoring Chongo's APP (American Primate Party) as if it didn't even exist?

That tells you just how scared they ARE of the APP. Just wait till 2012! You WILL see a chimp in the White House.

As for the Tea Party, that scares them some, but not enough to kill it by not reporting on it at all. Besides...all the Tea Party controversy is really pushing up ratings, and the sponsors love that. ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 01:55 PM

``Did I listen to the 18 minutes of predictible liberal ranting?

No.``

Jaysus, Doug. You loaded the gun. Ya gonna shoot yer foot next?
    Guest identified as 999. -Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 02:08 PM

That was me.


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: DougR
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 02:20 PM

JTS: True, you lost it to folks like me.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 02:23 PM

He has no intention of exposing himself to anything that might corrupt him or cause any undesired doubts or changes to arise... ;-)

I can understand why Doug is like that, though. How many of us, after all, will willingly and eagerly spend our time listening to 18 minutes of Glenn Beck or Anne Coulter? Would we bother? Naw....what the hell for? It would be a waste of our time.

The fact is, most people seek out only the stuff they agree with to spend their time on, right? That is the case almost all the time. They just occasionally will take a brief look at something they disagree with, and they do that strictly so they can quote a bit of it to someone else to show how stupid and terrible it is! ;-)

I suggest, Doug, that you idly tune in to any mere random 30 seconds of the Lessig video at any point, so you can do that. It'll give you much satisfaction to quote brief fragments of Lessig contemptuously to various people who share your political opinions. You can shake your heads in disbelief, and thank God that you are still Republicans.   You'll be doing the very same thing your "liberal" foes do...dismissing the views of the other side utterly...and feeling quite righteous while you do it too.


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 02:28 PM

Beware of stupid people in groups.


From the www.

"We needed to have the press be our friend ... We wanted them to ask the questions we want to answer so that they report the news the way we want it to be reported." —Nevada GOP Senate nominee and Tea Party favorite Sharron Angle, during an interview with Fox News

"I guarantee it's one of their long-term goals, to have one sort of borderless mass continent.'' —Kentucky GOP Senate nominee and Tea Party favorite Rand Paul, on the future of North America and secret U.S. plans for a European Union-style merger with Mexico and Canada

Tea Party candidate Ken Buck, after being asked why people should vote for him for the Colorado GOP Senate nomination: ''Because I do not wear high heels. She (Buck's GOP primary opponent) has questioned my manhood, and I think it's fair to respond. I have cowboy boots, they have real bulls**t on them. And that's Weld County bulls**t, not Washington, D.C., bulls**t.''


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 02:36 PM

And beware of goofy professors, Little Hawk.


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 02:48 PM

Doug, don't waste your time with Lessig.

Comparing Republican/Tea Party promises with actual economic data and question how they plan to keep them would be far more enlightening.


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 02:57 PM

You betcha, Q. ;-) My uncle was one of those. He was a nuclear physicist on the Manhattan Project, and he was one of the biggest cranks I ever met in my life...though brilliant in his chosen field. God help the world if people like that take over!


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: DougR
Date: 07 Nov 10 - 01:12 AM

Thank you, Jack, I will take your advice and not spend a moment reading what's his names narrative.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 07 Nov 10 - 09:44 AM

Seriously Doug, Write that Republican that you just elected and ask him how he plans to cut both the deficit and taxes.


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Nov 10 - 10:57 AM

There is only ONE sane and practical way to cut the deficit. Cut the bloated military budget. Stop invading foreign lands, dismantle your bases on those lands, and bring your soldiers home, and start rebuilding hometown USA instead of trying to conquer the world. The military activities of the USA are unjustified, unnecessary, and criminal...and they are a total waste of money, resources, and lives.

That is the elephant in the room that your government will not even address, because the people in charge of it have no intention of abandoning their great imperial program...it is the heart of what they are all about, just like it was the heart of Rome, Napoleonic France, Imperial Japan, the onetime British Empire, and the Third Reich. All military empires act essentially the same way...and one day they bite off more than they can chew. The USA has bitten off more than it can chew, and that's why it's going broke.


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 07 Nov 10 - 11:07 AM

BINGO, LH.


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 07 Nov 10 - 11:19 AM

If we just brought those soldiers home and had them live in the US and spent the same money on domestic bases as we do on foreign ones the stimulus would be tremendous.

Or if we charged Japan and Korea and Germany and France what it costs to ensure their security.


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Nov 10 - 12:04 PM

I don't frankly believe that Japan or Germany need the USA to ensure their security. They could both manage it quite nicely themselves, and would probably be glad to if the USA would let take its people home. As for South Korea...that's a little hard to say. That war is still technically not over...it's just holding a ceasefire. Both the North and the South have strong reasons to fear a possible attack.


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: Stringsinger
Date: 07 Nov 10 - 02:00 PM

Food habits are a form of addiction. The US is highly addicted to many "drugs".
What we take into our bodies, we also put into the environment. This is the talk that
I arrived at, Stilly, when you set your site.

I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment, LH. I'd like to amplify it further by stating that there is no security in the US or any other place in the world with these foreign policies.

Osama bin Laden (a reprehensible person) made it very clear. He would not tolerate foreign troops in Muslim countries and this is his raison d'etre for his terrorist attacks. It's that simple. He is a religious fanatic. But those foreign troops are the problem. He can be defeated by creating infrastructure, schools, hospitals, and genuine concern for the people of Afghanistan and other Middle East countries. Guns, missiles, warfare won't do the job.

The Tea Party is a reactionary group that offers no concrete plan to solve our economic crises. Their offerings are the meager contrivances of their corporate masters, Dick Armey and the Koch brothers. When the Tea Partiers finally wake up and find out that they have been screwed by the corporations and the GOP that pretended to support them, then they will be either hopping mad or have tuned out of the political process.

Don't count on Bachman, Paul or any of the leaders to do anything valuable for the country other than tear Republicans apart. Let Boehner and McConnell show their true colors by shutting down the government over repealing health care.

The Republic is not completely lost yet. There are those in its midst who are willing to speak out, act out if necessary and these are the true patriots, not the phony Tea Partiers who don't know history that well or understand what the Boston Tea Party was really about.

Watch for the tax cuts for the rich to raise the debt ceiling making the GOP points hypocritical and illogical. 700 billion of lost revenue for the country.

The way we keep the Republic from being lost is to get active and express our views.

Dems need to find a message. Right now, they don't have one.

Tea Partiers are shouters. They have no logic in their message. The Fox News noise machine is simply loud and not logical. When the yelling is done, then the devastation must be assessed.

Meanwhile, the true patriots quietly work.


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Nov 10 - 10:00 PM

Jack the Sailor, who can't swim: "Don't the people on say we have to "take it back?"
LOL
LOL
LOL
If WE have lost it, WE have lost it to YOU!!"

Whether or not I 'agree' with the Tea party was NOT my point, or Doug's. The point is, they exist, and have a right to exist.
Try not to let your 'liberal open mind' get in the way, of letting other groups of people express another opinion!
So far, the 'liberals' have been a disaster! So have the 'conservatives'. As far as I see it, neither are what they call themselves!..How 'bout you?

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: DougR
Date: 08 Nov 10 - 12:13 AM

Gee, L.H., are you SURE you want the U.S. to cut it's defence budget? Suppose Canada needs some help? Where else would it come from? I wouldn't count on Mexico.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 08 Nov 10 - 12:21 AM

Doug,

Who does Canada have to fear besides the US? Everyone else but Mexico would need an armada to get there. An armada that would have to pass close to US waters.

And Doug, the US spends 43% of the total world expenditure on the military. It could cut 3/4s and still whip any other two countries. I said whip not occupy and rebuild. Thank you for voting for Bush twice and wasting all that money.


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Nov 10 - 12:30 AM

It is as Jack says, Doug, Canada is in no danger of invasion from anyone but the USA due to our geographic position. The USA already has attempted to invade Canada in 2 wars...The American Revolution and the War of 1812...and failed both times. Canadians have no illusion about which country they must fear, Doug...it is the USA.

Yes, I am in favour of your budget being slashed by half or 3/4, because that would give you the money you need to repair your domestic infrastructure, put your people back to work, and have a happy and prosperous country again, and it would get you off the backs of the rest of the world. You live in the most aggressive and feared country on Earth, Doug, and it needs to massively disarm and stop attacking other countries. You are no protection to Canada. You are a danger to Canada and everyone else on this planet as things stand now.


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Nov 10 - 12:28 PM

And where is the U. S. of A. when Canada needs it? Russia has planted its flag on the sea bottom at the North Pole and is about to take a run along the Lomonosov Ridge into Canadian seas and is building nuclear powered bases to station around the Arctic Ocean.

Come on, U. S., dont' be chicken. Defend Canada and attack Russia now!


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: DougR
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 12:11 AM

What a relief! I like Canada, and have been concerned that Al Quieda might try to do a 9/11 there. Now I know that Canada is "protected" and Al Quieda wouldn't dare committ an act of terrorism there becaue we have been assured by L.H. and JTS that it just couldn't happen.

Rotsa ruck if they do, L.H.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 02:03 AM

Where and when did I ever assure you that Al Qaeda can't do a terrorist attack on Canada, Doug?

I have no idea what you would extrapolate that notion from, because I never said any such thing.

What I said was that "Canada is in no danger of invasion from anyone but the USA". Invasion, Doug, not terrorist attacks. Terrorists can attack anyone in the world whom they decide to with a bit of luck on their side, and sure, they might attack Canada. If they do, it will be because our stupid government acted as a flunky of the USA and put its troops in Afghanistan where they ought not to be.

The fact that the USA is armed to the teeth won't help us one bit against a terrorist attack, because terrorist attacks are not a military operation that you fight with an army, they are a criminal operation that you have to fight with espionage and excellent police work. We can do excellent police work ourselves, but it might not be enough. There are no guarantees.

You say you like Canada? Great. I also like the USA...that is, I like the land and its people. I don't like the USA government or its foreign and domestic policy, because it's practicing aggressive imperialism and treating its own population with neglect and contempt in a number of ways, specially as regards health care and the economy. Your government doesn't serve the people, it serves big business at the expense of the people. It's not your public's fault, because no matter which party they vote in, the same thing just keeps happening anyway. You don't really have a representative government any longer...just a sham government that pretends to be a representative of the people. It's an oligarchy, not a democracy.

Obama? He may mean well, but he can't change that system. If he really tried to, he'd be a dead man, in my opinion.


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 12:28 PM

>>What a relief! I like Canada, and have been concerned that Al Quieda might try to do a 9/11 there. Now I know that Canada is "protected" and Al Quieda wouldn't dare committ an act of terrorism there becaue we have been assured by L.H. and JTS that it just couldn't happen.<<

Yeah Doug, the US having enough hydrogen bombs and nuclear subs and aircraft carriers to kill most of the world a few times over sure keeps this country safe from terrorism. And yeah, it protects Canada to.


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: Amos
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 01:54 PM

If the US wades into a war with Iran in order to stimulate its economy, I shall open a shop in Halifax and take vacations in Bermuda.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: We've Lost the Republic (Lessig)
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Nov 10 - 12:01 PM

Victoria is nicer and it closer to where you live now.


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