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BS: Liberal fairness...(sweatshirt prohibited)
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Subject: BS: Liberal fairness... From: beardedbruce Date: 22 Oct 10 - 06:06 PM http://blogs.ktla.com/news_custom_eric/2010/10/man-fired-for-wearing-bush-sweatshirt-at-obama-rally.html "(USC) -- Don't try wearing a Bush hat or sweatshirt at an Obama rally. Duane Hammond says it's what got him fired. Hammond is a union stagehand who was part of the crew that built the platform for the Obama event on campus. He came to work early this morning wearing clothing that says "George H. W. Bush". Hammond's son is in the Navy, currently serving on the aircraft carrier U.S.S. George H. W. Bush. Hammond says he was not trying to make a political statement. He says he got the sweatshirt and hat during a visit to the aircraft carrier on Family Day. The back of his sweatshirt has a large drawing of the ship. He says he wore it to show how proud he is of his son. That didn't go over well with his union supervisor. Hammond says he was told to take off the sweatshirt, or he would have to go home. He refused. They told him he was fired from the job." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness... From: artbrooks Date: 22 Oct 10 - 06:19 PM I think you missed this part from your link: "James Wright, a business representative from IATSE Local 33, says the union is still investigating what happened. "If he was sent home because of the sweatshirt, he will be paid for the day," he said." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness... From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 22 Oct 10 - 06:21 PM At any kind of political rally it'd be very stupid to allow staff to wear something so liable to stir up trouble. That would apply just as much if it was a right-wing crowd and a left-wing sweat shirt. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness... From: Greg F. Date: 22 Oct 10 - 06:35 PM Don't try wearing a Bush hat or sweatshirt at an Obama rally. You ha=fta wonder what kind of utter moron would do this, anyway, dontcha? Gotta be a member ot the TeaBagger brain dead. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness... From: beardedbruce Date: 22 Oct 10 - 06:40 PM Greg F Didn't you read the post? HE WAS PROUD OF HIS SON. The clothing were NAVY souvenirs. "Hammond's son is in the Navy, currently serving on the aircraft carrier U.S.S. George H. W. Bush." So you think that they should remove all bushes from Democratic gatherings because it might upset someone??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness... From: Dave MacKenzie Date: 22 Oct 10 - 07:02 PM Whether "HE WAS PROUD OF HIS SON. The clothing were NAVY souvenirs. "Hammond's son is in the Navy, currently serving on the aircraft carrier U.S.S. George H. W. Bush."" or not, his action would be construed as deliberately provocative by most people who saw it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness... From: Richard Bridge Date: 22 Oct 10 - 07:05 PM Funny, Jucie Brucie, don't I remember you supporting the firing of the bus driver who flipped Dubya the bird on a public street? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness... From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 22 Oct 10 - 07:06 PM Of course it's always a good idea to read the small print, as on that sweatshirt with an enormous "BUSH" and a tiny "George H.W"... Perhaps the man just felt like getting a day off with full pay. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness... From: beardedbruce Date: 22 Oct 10 - 07:38 PM Well, Dicky, NO, you do not- since I never supported any such thing. I think the BIG picture of an Aircraft Carrier MIGHT have been a hint... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness... From: Dave MacKenzie Date: 22 Oct 10 - 07:42 PM "I think the BIG picture of an Aircraft Carrier MIGHT have been a hint... " on the back!!!!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness... From: beardedbruce Date: 22 Oct 10 - 07:44 PM Never expect a liberal to look at BOTH sides, right? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness... From: Dave MacKenzie Date: 22 Oct 10 - 07:47 PM "Never expect a liberal to look at BOTH sides, right? " Sounds just like a conservative. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness... From: Amos Date: 22 Oct 10 - 07:51 PM Bruce: I think you might have learned by now that partisan categories are no guarantee of intelligence, and that stupid individuals can be found all across the political spectrum. Mudslinging is not productive. This guy should never have been fired. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness... From: Dave MacKenzie Date: 22 Oct 10 - 07:53 PM 1 Corinthians 8 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness... From: beardedbruce Date: 22 Oct 10 - 08:04 PM Matthew 23:24 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness... From: beardedbruce Date: 22 Oct 10 - 08:08 PM Amos, "I think you might have learned by now that partisan categories are no guarantee of intelligence, and that stupid individuals can be found all across the political spectrum. " Agreed- but YOU have failed to realize that Obama suffers from the same clay feet that Bush did- and is potentially causing far more harm to our economy and future. Just apply the SAME standards of criticsm to Obama that YOU applied to Bush, and I will be satisfied. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness... From: Dave MacKenzie Date: 22 Oct 10 - 08:11 PM Matthew 23:23-24 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness...(sweatshirt prohibited) From: Joe Offer Date: 22 Oct 10 - 10:23 PM OK, so here we have the case of a supervisor who doesn't like the shirt a subordinate is wearing, and apparently finds the shirt provocative; so he tells the subordinate not to wear the shirt. Whether the boss's judgment was correct or not, the boss told the subordinate not to wear the shirt. I guess I was brought up in a different time, with a different work ethic. I always thought I was supposed to do what the boss wanted me to do, unless it was wrong. I knew a lot of fellow government employees who saw their own concerns as the supreme priority when they were working, but I never bought into that. I always thought that Republicans thought it was a good thing, to do what the boss told you to do....unless disobeying the boss makes political hay, I guess. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness...(sweatshirt prohibited) From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 22 Oct 10 - 10:34 PM ***UPDATE: Duane Hammond says union officials called him this afternoon to apologize for the incident. He say they are "bending over backwards" to make it up to him. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness... From: Art Thieme Date: 22 Oct 10 - 10:36 PM This reminds me of the time in 1968 that I went to a Robert Kennedy campaign appearance in Newport, Oregon -- and forgot I was wearing a button for the rival candidate Senator Eugene McCarthy. A fellow came up to me and pointed out that he was for Bobby Kennedy because he really thought that Robert Kennedy was the only one who could win and be the president. The fellow was a friend of Kennedy's named Whittaker (I think.) He was a mountain climber, and also climbed the Oregon mountain with Bobby that was named for his assassinated brother, John F. Kennedy. --- We had a very nice talk that afternoon. Yes, even with all the differing positions and in-your-face stridency then, those were, generally, more civil times in many ways. I do recall telling Mr. Whittaker that I was for Sen. Eugene McCarthy because McCarthy was there for us when we needed him-- as an anti-war candidate. McCarthy had come out against the Viet Nam war and directly challenged Pres. Lyndon Johnson for the Democrats nominee---a big factor, I thought then, in precipitating Lyndon Johnson's deciding not to run for another term as president. As history attests, Robert Kennedy lost the Oregon primary to Eugene McCarthy. A week later, after winning the California primary, Robert Kennedy was killed by Sirhan Sirhan. That left only Minnesota Senator Hubert Humphrey, a good man, but not a winner, to run against Tricky Dickie Nixon... It was a time when liberal was not a bad word at all---in any sense. It meant having a sense of justice--socially and also compassionately. The words "bleeding heart" had not been coined yet as a prefix for the word liberal. Personally, I'm happy to be pointed out as a liberal --- no matter how the language is mutilated by the right wing. Just some thoughts tonight as generated by this thread and a wonderful harvest moon to watch as I compose this. Art Thieme |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness...(sweatshirt prohibited) From: Ebbie Date: 22 Oct 10 - 11:10 PM I can't imagine what you'd find to talk about, bb, if it weren't for partisan politics. When it says the man was 'fired from the job', evidently they are merely saying that he didn't work that day, that he was sent home.PLUS he was to get paid for the day. PLUS it wasn't anyone from Obama's crowd that objected to his wearing the sweat shirt. There is NO WAY to blame it on President Obama, now is there? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness...(sweatshirt prohibited) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 23 Oct 10 - 01:41 AM " Liberal fairness"??? Now there's an oxymoron!!! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness...(sweatshirt prohibited) From: Slag Date: 23 Oct 10 - 03:29 AM But it is such FUN Ebbie. I was in a union for a while but I didn't work for the union. I worked for the employer. It is the employer who hires and fires. The union exists to protect the workers' rights and to negotiate the best deal they can for those employees. So how is it that the union fires this guy? Farther down in the blog it says that his union was investigating the incident. I think something is not accurate in this story. Stay tune. I sense more to be forth coming! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness...(sweatshirt prohibited) From: Dave MacKenzie Date: 23 Oct 10 - 03:42 AM " Liberal fairness"??? Now there's an tautology!!! "Guest from Sanity"??? Now there's an oxymoron!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness...(sweatshirt prohibited) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 23 Oct 10 - 03:58 AM Art Thieme: "It was a time when liberal was not a bad word at all---in any sense. It meant having a sense of justice--socially and also compassionately." That was THEN....this is NOW....liberals are a different animal, at present...but not even back then, did their shallowness escape the notice of Phil Oches .......and interesting remake Something to consider!!! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness...(sweatshirt prohibited) From: Genie Date: 23 Oct 10 - 05:10 AM Perhaps the supervisor overreacted -- though I kind of agree with Joe that if a supervisor thinks something you're wearing on the job is inappropriate, most often you need to go along with their request to change your attire, and if you don't you're being insubordinate, which is grounds for being sent home. Still, I can see the "slippery slope" rationale here. Should a political candidate or party have to allow their employees to blatantly broadcast their opposition while working at one of their rallies? I think it's reasonable to expect people who are on your payroll not to be flaunting their non-support of you while on the job. And an employee being sent home, with pay, doesn't come close to comparing with non-employee rally attendees being removed from G W Bush rallies or even handcuffed and arrested for merely wearing shirts or buttons that said "Support Our Troops: End the War" or "Peace" or the like. And those things did happen. Heck, the Republican US Senatorial candidate in Alaska just had a news reporter handcuffed and detained for over 30 minutes just for trying to ask him some questions at a rally. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness...(sweatshirt prohibited) From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 23 Oct 10 - 05:23 AM This guy should never have been fired. He wasn't. He was given a day off with pay. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness...(sweatshirt prohibited) From: Ebbie Date: 23 Oct 10 - 10:57 AM "Heck, the Republican US Senatorial candidate in Alaska just had a news reporter handcuffed and detained for over 30 minutes just for trying to ask him some questions at a rally." Genie For the record, that is not quite true: It was the security detail that did it; the candidate didn't even know about it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness...(sweatshirt prohibited) From: GUEST,TIA Date: 23 Oct 10 - 11:31 AM Did NOT have to even LOOK at the thread to KNOW who started THIS one. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness...(sweatshirt prohibited) From: artbrooks Date: 23 Oct 10 - 11:56 AM Of course, it is entirely possible that the entire incident had nothing at all to do with the presumed "liberal" (whatever that word means to the OP) attitude of the foreman. It may just be that he was an Army vet who objected to pictures of Navy ships...or maybe he is just very susceptible to seasickness. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness...(sweatshirt prohibited) From: beardedbruce Date: 23 Oct 10 - 03:25 PM OK, I willl have to presume that IF a person has a penny on them, with a picture of Linclon, he can be prohibited from working at a liberal event because Lincoln was a Republican. No one seems to care that the BUSH was an AIRCRAFT CARRIER. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness...(sweatshirt prohibited) From: Joe Offer Date: 23 Oct 10 - 03:44 PM So, the Google ad at the top of this thread is a California Republican campaign ad:
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness...(sweatshirt prohibited) From: Don Firth Date: 23 Oct 10 - 03:55 PM YE GAWDs, BB!! If this is all you've got, it must be a pretty slow day where you are. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness...(sweatshirt prohibited) From: beardedbruce Date: 23 Oct 10 - 04:15 PM Don, Many days here are slow, given Obama's attempt to kill the economy. But I haven't been fired yet for being proud of a son. Maybe soon, if THIS administration has it's way. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness...(sweatshirt prohibited) From: Jack the Sailor Date: 23 Oct 10 - 04:49 PM >>But I haven't been fired yet for being proud of a son. << There are ways to show pride in a son, even a son in the Navy, without bringing George Bush into it. I've seen tee shirts that say "Navy Parent". It is difficult to believe that he was not trying to provoke. If the Democrats paid for the hall. they have a right to expect neutrality AT THE VERY LEAST from its employees. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness...(sweatshirt prohibited) From: GUEST,TIA Date: 23 Oct 10 - 04:58 PM He was not fired. He was asked to leave - *after* refusing to simply turn the shirt inside-out. And, how do we know the job foreman was a liberal? Hmm? You've got to get out of the house BB - way too much Sean Hannity is making you nuts. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness...(sweatshirt prohibited) From: Rapparee Date: 23 Oct 10 - 05:38 PM Does this mean I can or cannot wear my IWW tee shirt? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness...(sweatshirt prohibited) From: artbrooks Date: 23 Oct 10 - 05:54 PM Depends...after a few beers you are pretty wobbly. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness...(sweatshirt prohibited) From: Don Firth Date: 23 Oct 10 - 08:21 PM BB, I think there is a qualitative difference going to a political rally and carrying and displaying a gun and wearing a T-shirt that some disapproves of. I don't recall seeing anything you've posted that disagrees with the idea of packing a gun to a political rally. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness...(sweatshirt prohibited) From: Genie Date: 23 Oct 10 - 09:38 PM Ebbie, yes, it was the private security folks who handcuffed and detained the reporter. But weren't they hired by the candidate? It's not always fair, but usually people are held responsible for the behavior of their employees -- especially when they don't come forward, uncoerced, and promptly, to denounce that behavior and set things right. There have been public school teachers who have, similarly, misunderstood the First Amendment and its ramifications and flunked students or sent them home for such things as writing an essay (for an English class) with Jesus as the topic. If the school board promptly sets the record right and reinstates the student, they're not to blame for the teacher's overreaction and overreaching; if not, they become complicit in it. Bruce, sweetie, since when does having a penny in one's pocket compare to broadcasting an endorsement or opinion on a lapel button or t-shirt? "No one seems to care that the BUSH was an AIRCRAFT CARRIER," you say. OK. If Pepsi were sponsoring an event, complete with their ads, and one of the stage hands was wearing a "Coke: The Pause That Refreshes" t-shirt, would you expect them not to object? Would it really matter if the "coke" the hand was advocating was the kind that's snorted? As Jack the Sailor says, "If the Democrats paid for the hall. they have a right to expect neutrality AT THE VERY LEAST from its employees." I think rally attendees should be allowed to wear whatever slogans they like on their t-shirts, buttons, bumper stickers, etc. But paid employees at a political rally should refrain from attire that is likely to be seen as political propaganda if they're not willing to endorse the candidate/party that's putting on the rally. I'd think that's a no-brainer. TIA's point is important: "He was not fired. He was asked to leave - *after* refusing to simply turn the shirt inside-out. And, how do we know the job foreman was a liberal? " |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness...(sweatshirt prohibited) From: Jack the Sailor Date: 23 Oct 10 - 11:10 PM >>Would it really matter if the "coke" the hand was advocating was the kind that's snorted?<< or the kind used to smelt Steele? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness...(sweatshirt prohibited) From: Joe Offer Date: 24 Oct 10 - 01:18 AM I think Art Brooks deserves some sort of recognition for his "wobbly" remark - at least a groan or something.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness...(sweatshirt prohibited) From: artbrooks Date: 24 Oct 10 - 08:29 AM Thank you Joe...I just assumed that it went unnoticed in this morass of plebeian ignoramuses. :{) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness...(sweatshirt prohibited) From: Dave MacKenzie Date: 24 Oct 10 - 08:39 AM With most of us nowadays, it's not the T-shirt that's wobbly, but what it conceals. I must admit to turning up for work at Royal Mail wearing my CWU National Strike t-shirt, but it was under my uniform shirt so it didn't upset anyone. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness...(sweatshirt prohibited) From: Genie Date: 24 Oct 10 - 09:18 AM You're right, Joe. Here goes, for Art: GRRRROOOOOAAAANNNNNNNNNN!! ; D |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness...(sweatshirt prohibited) From: Amos Date: 24 Oct 10 - 10:09 AM As we go marching, marching, in the beauty of the day, A million darkened kitchens, a thousand mill lots gray Are touched with all the radiance that a sudden sun discloses For the people hear us singing: bread and roses, bread and roses. As we go marching, marching, we battle, too, for men, For they are women's children and we march with them again. Our lives shall not be sweated from birth until life closes; Hearts starve as well bodies; give us bread but give us roses. There ya go, Art. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness...(sweatshirt prohibited) From: GUEST,Ebbie Date: 24 Oct 10 - 12:39 PM "Does this mean I can or cannot wear my IWW tee shirt?" Rapaire "Depends...after a few beers you are pretty wobbly." artbrooks I noted the wobbly reference but I also thought that Art was being oh so subtle in specifying what 'small clothes' Rap can wear... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness...(sweatshirt prohibited) From: artbrooks Date: 24 Oct 10 - 12:59 PM Ebbie, have you met Rapaire? NONE of his clothes are small (not that I have any right to comment, of course). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness...(sweatshirt prohibited) From: Rapparee Date: 24 Oct 10 - 01:57 PM I spoke with the fair Ebbie when I was last in Juneau, organizing a strike at that mine on the island across the channel. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness...(sweatshirt prohibited) From: GUEST,Ebbie Date: 24 Oct 10 - 02:17 PM Rapaire is correct - but that was a L O N G time ago. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness...(sweatshirt prohibited) From: pdq Date: 24 Oct 10 - 03:32 PM It does not seem to be clear on this thread, but the man who did the firing was a union shop steward. He does not participate in the construction work. Here is what "Local 1500" has to say about the position of... Shop StewardsThe Steward's Role The shop steward holds a special place in any union. At the worksite, the steward is the union - the link between union members and management. Shop stewards are members' first line of defense, responsible for enforcing the contract and handling grievances, and for proactively ensuring worksite safety, mobilizing members for the union's political campaigns, orienting new members to the worksite and the union, and more. Your job as a shop steward is more than a list of duties, however: Your chief responsibility is building a united, organized, and involved membership at your worksite. Stewards play both offense and defense. All this gives shop stewards a special responsibility, but also a special authority that is protected by law as well as your union contract. As a shop steward, you deal with management as an equal. It is a violation of federal law for your employer to discriminate or retaliate against you for fulfilling your steward duties. Because of the importance of shop stewards, Local 1500 is making it a priority to grow and strengthen the base of stewards who populate our many worksites. What Is a Shop Steward?*A Communicator: Members need to know what's going on. You do this through worksite meetings, your union bulletin board, and most importantly, one-on-one conversations. *A Problem Solver: Not every problem is a grievance. You can prevent most problems from becoming grievances by taking appropriate actions: getting the facts, creating a plan, and involving members. *An Educator: Education comes not just through teaching, but through action. Union members learn by sharing experiences, taking action, and discussing it afterward. *A Health and Safety Watchdog: You may not need hard hats and thick gloves, but modern office technologies pose plenty of dangers. A steward helps keep his or her co-workers safe on the job. *A Political Activist: As public employees, your real bosses are your elected officials. That's why politics is part of every Local 1500 member's job. Our stewards advance our political goals by mobilizing members for phone banks, rallies and get-out-the-vote activities. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness...(sweatshirt prohibited) From: Rapparee Date: 24 Oct 10 - 04:08 PM Yeah...I remember. They were the Treadwell, 700-Foot, Mexican and Ready Bullion mines. Ebbie was working at the Red Dog in Juneau at the time, as I remember. I think she still is, but only part-time now. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness...(sweatshirt prohibited) From: GUEST,Ebbie Date: 24 Oct 10 - 04:25 PM Rap, I can only wish. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness...(sweatshirt prohibited) From: open mike Date: 24 Oct 10 - 05:31 PM well, if it was cold and the sweat shirt provided warmth i would NOT have taken it off, except maybe to turn it inside out and put it back on again....("re-don" it) clothing has practical uses as well as making a statement.. perhaps the union rep would have also taken exception if the garment was not union made.. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness...(sweatshirt prohibited) From: Art Thieme Date: 25 Oct 10 - 12:55 AM Give us bread = money But also give us cirrhosis. (Hits a where ya liver.) Art |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness...(sweatshirt prohibited) From: Genie Date: 25 Oct 10 - 01:40 AM Open Mike, I understand that the worker was given the option of turning the sweatshirt inside-out but refused. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness...(sweatshirt prohibited) From: kendall Date: 25 Oct 10 - 07:59 PM George H W Bush was the last republican I voted for when he ran against The actor" in the primaries. By the way, BB, Bush and his cronies killed the economy before Obama took over. Took them 8 years and now Obama is being crucified because he has failed to cure it in 2 years. Do you really expect those who caused this mess to clean it up? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness...(sweatshirt prohibited) From: dick greenhaus Date: 25 Oct 10 - 08:12 PM BB- How would you suggest that the economy should be fixed? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness...(sweatshirt prohibited) From: Wesley S Date: 25 Oct 10 - 08:42 PM Dick - I'm going to guess that the answer is to cut taxes. That way the rich can create more jobs. In China, India, ect.... Everywhere but America. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness...(sweatshirt prohibited) From: Rapparee Date: 25 Oct 10 - 09:01 PM One answer.... Yes, the IWW is still very much around. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness...(sweatshirt prohibited) From: Genie Date: 25 Oct 10 - 10:32 PM What Kendall just said. But I'd add that it's been only 19 months since Obama took office, not 24. And both Obama's opponents and the media in general have been calling it "two years" for at least the last four or five. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness...(sweatshirt prohibited) From: artbrooks Date: 25 Oct 10 - 10:43 PM 18 months + almost a week, actually |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness...(sweatshirt prohibited) From: dick greenhaus Date: 26 Oct 10 - 12:41 AM Interestingly (to me, at least), the use of the word "liberal" as a perjorative came from the left, originally. As in Love Me, I'm a Liberal" Now it's under attack from all directions. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Liberal fairness...(sweatshirt prohibited) From: kendall Date: 26 Oct 10 - 01:26 AM If I were a republican I would be very careful about accusing anyone else of not being fair. |
