BS: Vizsla, Anyone?

Subject: BS: Vizsla, Anyone?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 12:47 AM

I read up on all this dog breed's PR, but does anyone here have one? Telltelltell.

One is on the way to live here for a month and I am afraid I will like it, a lot. If Faulkner tells it to go to hell, will it just do that or will it argue?

An unfixed male. (Not mine to tutor.)

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Vizsla, Anyone?
From: ragdall
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 01:00 AM

Will you have to speak to it in Hungarian? ;)

rags

Subject: RE: BS: Vizsla, Anyone?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 01:03 AM

I think that is the kind of dogs that Spaw has or had. They're beautiful, quiet, and shy, in my experience.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Vizsla, Anyone?
From: catspaw49
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 01:11 AM

OFten mentioned in the same breath as my breed, the Weimaraner, they are sort of the Hungarian version, developed along the same set of goals that the Weim was. An excellent multi-purpose hunter who values human companionship to the point of sometimes showing strong separation anxiety. This type of breed was not just the field companion but expected and flourished when living with its master 24/7.

I love 'em.   Weims, GSP's, Vizlas............these are really special breeds of above average intelligence and an unmatched "velcro" factor.They have a lot of energy especially as young dogs and YOU definitely need to be the Alpha dog.

Sorry Susan......I'm still mourning my loss of Sissy, the best Weim I have had and probably the last. Hope you do well with your guest. If he was well socialized as a pup it will make a big difference.


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Vizsla, Anyone?
From: Ebbie
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 01:37 AM

There used to be one in Juneau. Tall, stately, dignified, self-contained dog with yellow eyes. He too was whole but he didn't seem on the prowl most of the time. Probably because so many females these days are fixed.

He was totally different from the mixed breed Schnauzer who lived with him. The Schnauzer could be found all over downtown and to this day one sees dogs that stem from ugly ol' Maz. (Sorry, Max!) Max lived to be 17.

Both dogs were let roam by their owner.

The Vizsla died at a fairly young age, 10 or 11. I understand they are not particularly long-lived dogs?

Subject: RE: BS: Vizsla, Anyone?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 02:28 AM

They are an HPR breed, not an all purpose hunting dog and in theory should be more interested in feather than fur. Both they and Weimaraners tend to be more robust with other dogs in play than a Pointer or GSP. Probably usually more intelligent on average than Pointers, and probably more trustworthy with children than Weimaraners. Do not over-exercise while very young. From about a year old they WILL NEED at least an hour's free running a day and I mean "running" or there will be an energy surplus that will come out somewhere so they need to be trained to come to whistle before then. They will remain immature of character (translation, crazy as a box of frogs) until about 4. They will remain lively and alert until well into veteran class (starts at 7) and vigorous until probably 10.

They can be a bit assertive, but usually not too much so.

I prefer Pointers.

Subject: RE: BS: Vizsla, Anyone?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 07:28 AM

RB, thanks! Thanks everyone, but RB told me what I needed to know-- I do not know his AGE. It's the one question I should ask before they arrive because it will have everything to do with logistics I need to morph in our Dog World to plan a good start to their stay.

Wotta Mudcat!

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Vizsla, Anyone?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 09:16 AM

PS - what is Faulkner?

Subject: RE: BS: Vizsla, Anyone?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 09:24 AM

PPS - Axel, our last dog Pointer, used to run like hell - sometimes ricocheting off trees resulting in vet visit for stitches, sometimes with excessive wheelspin on earth with flints in - resulting in vet visit for stitches to cut pads and a couple of weeks when we would put on the dressing on the paw, and he would take it off, and we would (etc). If your visitor is under three, this is a material risk.

Subject: RE: BS: Vizsla, Anyone?
From: Crowhugger
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 12:47 PM

That sounds like fun opportunity.

Just to enlarge on what RB said, when under a year RB is correct, don't over-exercise. Be aware nonetheless that the dog will still have gobs of energy, so the exercise needs to be short but very frequent.

Your strength and inner calm while setting clear boundaries will help minimize the dog's stress making the transition to having you in place of its usual "top dog."

Enjoy!

Subject: RE: BS: Vizsla, Anyone?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 01:37 PM

1. Faulkner is mature, uber-calm, observant, shepherd mind with collie sprinkles and a dash of sight hound. He is about the same weight as the Vizsla. He thinks all dogs care about rank. He will pull rank if they do not comply, with a swift snout-thrust/growl. He does not break skin-- jaws do not quite meet as we discovered in trying to find kibbles he could chew, which was a past thread.

2. Sadie, OTOH, is bigger but calmer and near the very end of Y-Lab.G-Triever.Dane Silly Season. She just goes along with any flow with waggles and wiggles. She will like to play, play, play.

3. The V's usual top dogs will be here TOO, with 9-month babe in arms, on an upper floor. (They will feed V where we all agree is best.)

4. I'm leaving Tuesday with husband arriving same time as guests, and he has NO dog-sense. Yet.

5. Solution (I'm just back in from step 1 of implementation):
a. Kennel Faulkner (till husband can leash him when in the house) in the spare kennel out back. Dirty, but secure Doggie Palace.
b. Sadie will first meet V (both on leashes) on neutral ground.
c. V will go out into their spacious Dog World by himself, go upstairs with owners, and retire for the night.
d. Sadie will sleep in the gated corner that adjoins Dog World-- a convenient easy-out door opens into DW.
e. In the AM the owners can walk the V on a leash and he can meet Sadie again, in mid-neutral zone. If all goes well they then run out to fall in love in DW.
f. When hubby is ready and guests agree, F comes in on leash to learn that V is to be Hosted. He WILL allow this, because husband IS Top Dog Above Dogs. There is room in the LR for all peeps and dogs to have Their OWN Spot.

6. I am not at all worried about ME getting along with V. I have always gotten along well with "that type." (I read pets' minds.)

7. There is a big ole hill the owners can run the leashed V on, as needed. And DW is big enough for a good, raucous romp--a safe place to do it.

8. The V has been in a motel for 4 weeks. He's gonna need to run a bit; I know it and so do the owners, and he IS their dog.

===

I wanted to change my hairstyle, really I did. THAT is why I purposely forgot half of what I knew about burdock/sticker-burrs when I tore out the big, tall dried ones in the small kennel F is headed for. The important half. I failed to get a picture-- sorry!

TBTG I remembered the important half of "How to Unf*ck Sticker-Burred Hair." All is well!

:~)

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Vizsla, Anyone?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 02:21 PM

I Faulkner is entire I foresee issues. There will be a pack - with you and husband as potential top dogs - or maybe the other bipeds as top dogs. Below the top dogs there will be pecking order, and if to the doggy mind the relative status of the top dogs (bipeds) is unclear IMHO there will be more vying for pack order. I am surprised that the big bitch (that's Sadie, not you) is not top dog.


Keep an eye on entire males who may tend to mark foodbowls (disgusting, but it's what top dog tries to do) and very forcefully prevent such.


Exercise until dogs are totally knackered (so long as none are too young or too old) is likely to be the best canine valium.

Subject: RE: BS: Vizsla, Anyone?
From: Crowhugger
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 02:28 PM

ROTFL on the burdock thing, too bad about no pic; you could've started a whole new fashion thing--anyway imagination will do at least as much as a photo.

It's evident you're quite on top of things with clear view ahead.

Two of my little pack just LOVE running with the V's we meet in the woods. The 5 or 6 vizslas I've met submitted to or simply outran most dogs they encountered. The one who didn't always give in also didn't go beyond non-contact body language to say she was the upper dog. But wow, what a lot of energy, though it seems a more straight-line energy, till it ricochets off some external energy or internal notion), less wild 'n' tangled than, say, a young Lab.

BTW, no one else has addressed this so I will--I've had mixed experience with intact vs neutered males. Often the presence of that scent piques curiosity especially in dogs who never spend time with intact males. Only once or twice did I see an already tense and dominant, (perhaps poorly socialized?) intact dog overreact to being intensely sniffed by a bunch of curious canines, but would he also overreact were he neutered? Who can say?

Some behaviourists say that the presence of reproductive parts in either sex will raise the intensity level of interactions. I don't think it's an issue at all provided that the dogs accept the humans as 'top dog,' and provided that the humans behave like top dogs by keeping excitement within the pack at a moderately low level.

Subject: RE: BS: Vizsla, Anyone?
From: Crowhugger
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 02:34 PM

Once again, RB hits nail on head about wearing them out before putting them in situations that appeal to territoriality, dominance etc.. This is so if Faulkner is intact, but it's also an escalating factor if Sadie is intact, which makes her more valuable for them to "own."

Subject: RE: BS: Vizsla, Anyone?
From: Crowhugger
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 02:42 PM

P.S. that's why it is important for the "top (human) dog" to object to excitement, to keep the energy at a calm level. Any excitement, even if directed to a toy or a new, outside dog or cat or squirrel, naturally follows a path of least resistance and will redirect in an instant to a pack member when there is any question about who is in charge.

Often the hardest thing for humans in the situation of visiting dogs is to treat their own dog like just another member of the new, enlarged pack. The mninute you give one dog special privileges you prove you are not worthy of being top dog and another will step up and try to own the pack in your stead, not a desirable situation.

Subject: RE: BS: Vizsla, Anyone?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 03:12 PM

SO RIGHT, both RB and CH. I'm on top of all that.

F is not entire. Sadie neither.

I'll be sure neither male gets to mark bowls-- LOL, F does that in the small kennel if he and Sadie have to share space. The water pan. In it. Eeeew, then they drink it. This is why I moved the cleaned and fresh-filled water pan where it now sits next to his bed in the shed inside the kennel, off the floor and by the food bowl he KNOWS Sadie does not EVER try for-- F and S have their stuff well worked out.

If F is feeling tense about pecking order he will simply rush the V once, then go hump a cat. I hope he picks the right one, LOL-- a newish cat here has upset the feline balance.

Just kidding-- she will be on patrol in another part of the house while I am gone. I heard a critter in the space between the dnstrs ceiling and the upstrs floor last night-- Katy will be on the job starting tonight, and the two cats left down here LIKE dogs.


The unf*ck-hair job-- There's Something About Mary? I got the burrs out but am not in a hurry to wash out the lotion I used to slick out the burrs.... One side of my hair is all.... eeew, slickery now. I'll deal with THAT later! :~)

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Vizsla, Anyone?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 03:33 PM

This is the pack order:

Hardi and Me (Alpha male and female)
Guest Male and Wife (Sub-Alphas not challenging)
Faulkner (Uncle) & Baby
Vizsla (name Buster, or VB)
Cats (napping)
Sadie (clown/omega/happy)

I'd bet cash monies that this is exactly what will form itself. This is based on personalities discerned already. (I'm good with that stuff.) OTOH I did NOT welcome the visit or tenure of a chihuahua and the disabled lady to boss him, with a TV addiction... nononono. Not here, sorry!

F has long made it clear that he would LIKE to be #2 right under Hardi-- but knows that is not open. Knows he must follow my lead in Hardi's absence. Knows I take care of him and Make Sense of Things when needed. (Knows I have the opposable thumbs and not him.)

There are a lot of options possible in this strangely-laid-out old
house when adjustments will be needed.


F has a hilarious face he makes when his body wants one thing and his mind knows that it MUST comply-- a kind of screwed up, unhappy, compliant look that says, "I hear you.... just give me a moment to process this thru my nerve pathways and I WILL do as you insist."

Why does this work, here? Because there is lots of room and because we never, ever insist that any dog do what it is not able to do willingly. And because my instinctive and swift reaction when a dog challenges ME is to get right in their face and give All No body-language/voice. Then release that as soon as they yield and praise cooperation. Hell, I bossed horses.

F, for instance, is not "obedience"-trained but cooperatively wired like a service dog, to look for what we want and to know to do it each time asked. But Sadie is totally rote, obedience-command, food-based in her training. F learns to copy her and her commands because he sees that we want her to obey them.

This is what happens when you get dogs as adult dogs... you work with the ones meant to be in your pack, and lead that pack.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Vizsla, Anyone?
From: Crowhugger
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 04:11 PM

Yup, you're a natural. I think I recognize that face you describe on F, and I wondered if it shows in his body too. Cleo (5 yr G-Ret. x std. poodle, former female) has that face almost daily since I took back some leadership I'd lazily let her have, but her whole body takes the expression not just her face, like, damn I wish you'd change your mind and back off but double damn I know you won't so okay...then she does whatever. But that's thread drift, she isn't a Vizsla.

Subject: RE: BS: Vizsla, Anyone?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 04:37 PM

Just got an answer back-- Buster is 6, calm, with a bit of hip dysplasia, and they run him. The steep, short flight of stairs to his room will be good muscle-building therapy, as my ass can attest. (More horse praxis applied across species.)

F's "I'm trying" face is supplemented by this body-language (and he is a thread drift too): Back legs trying SO HARD to sit (fold halfway then pop back up, face strains, then try again, while brain sends signal to sit when sit is not wanted... with some agonized twisting thru the mid-section while the signal travels.

When he does that he gets a tone of voice back confirming the command in a firm and soothing tone that sez, "Yes I do mean it and yes I know it's hard and I will try not to put you in this position again." Because when there is another option I prefer the one that he prefers and that he can "give over" into with joy.

His whole orientation on joy is, "I figured out the plan, look, I'll go ahead of you, see, is this right, it is,is,is,IS, isn't it?" And only very occasionally is the answer, "No! Nice try, but sorry, not this time. Look. Look over here-- we want THIS, this time, yesyesyes!"

This year he's learning more and more hand signals. (He asked for them.)

Vizsla Buster, full speed ahead!

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Vizsla, Anyone?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 05:27 PM

The two total sods I ever had to deal with was Puff - our youngest Pointer bitch, and a lodger's dog, Bosun.

Puff was quite simply too bright to be a Pointer. Probably because we crossed two gene pools - Axel who was largely Crookrise (the modern Pointer) and Cassie who was largely Hurwyn (the classic pointer) - so there was a nice big set of neural pathways. A swagger in her walk (even after spayed because of pyometria) and too fast for her own good. She'd face down a Rottweiler or Rhodesian Ridgeback, nip it on the nose and be in the next county before it knew what had happened. With bipeds however, she was totally in control of her body. You'd tell her - she'd stiffen - you'd tell her again and she'd do. You'd turn your back and walk away thinking "job done" and you'd hear a tiny "wuff" - amost a sussuration with a bit of lip in it, rather than a quiet bark - so quiet that you almost could not be sure you'd heard it - but Puff would have had the last word again!


Bosun was simply nasty. A so-called "Bull-jack" - bred to fight by pikeys in Essex. His sire was a well known Essex fighting dog called "the Rat". Part Jack Russell, quite a lot of Staffordshire, only an inch or so longer than a normal Jack Russell but almost the same across the beam and a jaw like a mechanical digger. That fighting tradition works by putting two dogs in a dustbin and sitting on the lid. The one still alive when you take the lid off is the winner. Personally I'd take a Kalashnikov to the owners. His owner my lodger "rescued" Bosun but never managed to housetrain him (not nice) and eventually Bosun moved out when I caught him pissing on lodger's Gibson J-45 and told lodger that if Bosun was not disposed of then lodger AND dog would be disposed of, bail or no bail conditions.

At that stage I had Bonnie (a spayed Great Dane bitch, well past her prime) and Benjamin (who I still have, the cleverest dog I ever met - neutered Border Collie - something. I was told the something was Black Lab but I suspect Dobermann). Well, Bonnie outweighed Ben about 1.5 to 1 and was a good bit taller, and when young had also been faster - the long Great Dane legs - she was as fast as a Greyhound (in a straight line, corners she found tricky). She was also blind on one side by the time Bosun moved in. Benjamin however was as quick as light and outweighed Bosun several to one - but without the excavator jaw. So Bonnie could whip Ben - but Bosun could come up on her blind side and get a leg and she was over. Ben was a handful for Bosun, but if Bosun got under him he was in charge. So we had an endlessly churning society - until the day Bosun went for Bonnie in a narrow passage, could not dodge, and Bonnie got Bosun in her mouth - not across his back, but head to tail! Although on her hind legs she was taller than a man I never really realised how huge her jaws were until then. After that Bosun was a lot more civilised - but still not housetrained and his owner appeared unable to get the job done.

Subject: RE: BS: Vizsla, Anyone?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 06:00 PM

Funniest line of the MONTH:

After that Bosun was a lot more civilised

Oh my, thank you for this thread, you dog people! :~)

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Vizsla, Anyone?
From: Crowhugger
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 12:53 AM

I'm still laughing aloud! Better bite my tongue so I don't wake sleeping husband. I simply wasn't expecting Bosun to survive that storyline.

Subject: RE: BS: Vizsla, Anyone?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 08:48 AM

Dogpeeps, I cannot say enough about how you have helped me, and I didn't even really ask for help.

Example. I'm a genius, I knew that, but strokebrain has fuzzed up a few pathways governing how things in my head link up. I often know two very related things and do not see the relationality as fast as I used to, so I often say nowadays, unapologetically: "I'm a little slow."

(I'm still MUCH faster than anyone around me most of the time, but for me it IS slow.)


So I woke up this AM remembering that the part of Dog World sectioned off for my summer chill-pool is BUSTER's slice of heaven. I knew I needed to put away all the pool stuff for winter and that Hardi wanted to mow in there, but DUH, then BUSTER can be turned out to romp in there with baby and momma and poppa. They can toidy him in the yard and then let him loose in there-- it was sposed to be a poop-free zone, see?

That's where F recovered while I chill-pooled, from a surgery we thought might have been his death sentence-- a July 2010 tumor removal.


How YOU all helped was that (duh) I am a DOG person (as well as a cat person), and in DOG terms-- heck, I think I may be a Good Doggeh!

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Vizsla, Anyone?
From: Crowhugger
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 01:52 PM

Woof!

Subject: RE: BS: Vizsla, Anyone?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 02:20 PM

"Bite me" finally makes sense, at least. At last. Ad infinitum. Ad libitum. Wanna fetch!

?!?!?!

Oh the humanity!

:~)

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Vizsla, Anyone?
From: open mike
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 05:17 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vizsla

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/vizsla.htm

(Hungarian Short-haired Pointing Dog)
(Rovidszoru Magyar Vizsla)
(Hungarian Pointer)

Subject: RE: BS: Vizsla, Anyone?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 01:11 PM

They came, they saw, they liked, they boogied on. All Vizsla input was a huge help-- he had the best time of the gang. :~)

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Vizsla, Anyone?
From: olddude
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 09:04 AM

Very high strung dog, My daughter has one and I just love him but you need to run those guys. They are bred for bird hunting. My daughter does volunteer work for the vizla rescue. Many people get them , then find out they are not the greatest house dog.

Subject: RE: BS: Vizsla, Anyone?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 09:34 AM

Well, they are a bit more general purpose than a Pointer (which only hunts and points) or a Clumber Spaniel (which only retrieves, and sleeps quite a lot too).

But, like a Pointer, they make fine house dog, although the hard short hair gets right into the fabric of furnishings) so long as they have had their hour's free running a day.

Subject: RE: BS: Vizsla, Anyone?
From: olddude
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 09:44 AM

That's the point. My kid and her husband are Iron Man competitors that ran in the world championship in Hawaii last month.   They can take him out everyday and run the heck out of him. He is a wonderful dog. If you don't run him for a day or two, he will chew everything in the house. Very common for these dogs ... they are great dogs but they are not the breed to just lay on the couch. Her Tabasco is 10 years old and still acts like a pup .. There is a high responsibility owning them I think. He is very similar to my Irish Setter that I had. Beautiful in every way but needed the daily get the energy out run.

Subject: RE: BS: Vizsla, Anyone?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 09:59 AM

Keeping any dog in the house all of the time is unnatural and is bound to lead to destroyed furnitures. (I mean "dog," as in relatively normal sized animal, not one of these pocket or handbag or teacup sized things that is useless doing normal dog things). My two love having a large yard to keep track of: that is their job. And any dog with a job to do is happier than a dog stuck in the house or a tiny yard that is bored.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Vizsla, Anyone?
From: olddude
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 10:08 AM

SRS
correct but some breed are more active then others. Ever own a Jack Russell terrier? I have, that is a small dog that will wear you out. However, have a wiener dog and you have to force them outside (got 3 of em) .. and my lab mix, he likes to play Frisbee while the wieners sleep on the chair. Own a pure breed Irish Setter, or a Vizsla, you better plan on running them twice a day for sure

Subject: RE: BS: Vizsla, Anyone?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 10:19 AM

My pit bull (American Staffordshire Terrier) and catahoula/blue heeler mix would go bonkers if they couldn't run around the yard all day and go for walks with me. Living outside also helps them maintain normal healthy weights.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Vizsla, Anyone?
From: Crowhugger
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 11:49 AM

SRS, I'm grinning ear to ear as I imagine your cata x heeler, thinking wow a howling herder, there's an interesting energy mix.

Subject: RE: BS: Vizsla, Anyone?
From: Sorcha
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 04:32 PM

And I'm still thinking a 'Travelling Dog'.

get my coat now.