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BS: restoring an old toaster
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Subject: BS: restoring an old toaster From: Richard Bridge Date: 07 Nov 10 - 11:15 AM I have a beautiful old toaster (the "flip" sort not "pop-up" that I acquired after a friend's mother died - actually, I used to have several from the O&S of my father who was a great fixer-upper, but I suspect they went missing in a house move) and I fancy putting it back to use. It needs new flex - and I have found sources for fabric covered flex - but the thing that is alarming me at the moment is that it used twin core - so there was no earth - and the only thing keeping the elements off the metal body appears to be some thin mica, in some cases mica washers. I am tempted to use a three core fabric covered flex like an iron, and add an earth, taking care to keep the earth connection well away from the others! Does anyone have any comments or knowledge on current (no pun intended) UK relevant electrical standards? |
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Subject: RE: BS: restoring an old toaster From: Jack the Sailor Date: 07 Nov 10 - 11:21 AM Is the "flex" the power cord? |
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Subject: RE: BS: restoring an old toaster From: Richard Bridge Date: 07 Nov 10 - 11:29 AM Yes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: restoring an old toaster From: Jim Dixon Date: 07 Nov 10 - 12:02 PM I have no experience at this, but I wonder if you could take some of the innards from a newer toaster and install them in your old one. Or maybe all you need is to examine a newer one and see how it is wired & assembled. In the US, you can pick up toasters very cheaply from charity shops. Heck, even new ones are pretty cheap. |
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Subject: RE: BS: restoring an old toaster From: greg stephens Date: 07 Nov 10 - 12:09 PM There were people on the radio this morning who had an English Electric fridge from 1947 still running. I think that was the date, I may have got the detail wrong. |
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Subject: RE: BS: restoring an old toaster From: Richard Bridge Date: 07 Nov 10 - 12:29 PM Mostly, pop-up mechanisms are not going to fit in a flip toaster. I'm reasonably sure that it is illegal in the UK for a business (and this includes charity) to sell an electrical item that does not conform to current standards, but sometimes you can get old ones with the flex cut off and do your own restoration if you simply like old things (and why not, I'm an old thing myself). In the EU old amplifiers with bulgin sockets must be converted to new IEE connectors of they are to be repaired by a business. I am doing this toaster first because it is so pretty - but still am agonising whether to go for a 3-core installation (with added earth, then I could use it with an ELCB at the socket and maybe live to tell the tale) or keep it original with the 2-core and believe that it hasn't killed anyone yet so why should I be the first? Those mica washers worry me. After that I have some nice old radiant electric fires, including a flicker effect mock log one. I did the standard and table lamps long ago - with modern wiring throughout and where possible modern lampholders, but getting the modern bits inside old brass fittings and removing carbonised bakelite to get the old bits free was quite a game. |
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Subject: RE: BS: restoring an old toaster From: GUEST,Bob L Date: 07 Nov 10 - 12:45 PM It would be prudent, to say the least, to connect your toaster to the mains via a trip switch (RCB), available either as an adaptor or incorporated in a plug. |
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Subject: RE: BS: restoring an old toaster From: Penny S. Date: 07 Nov 10 - 12:56 PM Richard, I have a bad feeling about this - those washers. (If you need a toaster, I have a nice one from John Lewis spare - popup, though.) Penny |
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Subject: RE: BS: restoring an old toaster From: open mike Date: 07 Nov 10 - 01:19 PM maybe you can just set the thing on top of the stove burner. i am not sure what a flip toaster is...but here is the antique version of a toaster. did you know there is a toaster museum with over 500 toasters that has just been acquired by the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn Michigan? Www.toaster.org does yours look like this? .toaster.org/images/toasters/steelcraft_toaster
http://www.toaster.org/images/toasters/steelcraft_toaster.jpg |
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Subject: RE: BS: restoring an old toaster From: Geoff the Duck Date: 07 Nov 10 - 02:17 PM Richard - the whole point of mica is that it combines being an electrical insulator with heat resistance. A different sort of washer is likely to be more dangerous rather than less.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mica#Electronics. That said, we used to have a flip down toaster, and I always liked the toast it produced, even the thick things where I had to stand there holding the handles to keep the door closed until it was done. Quack! GtD. |
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Subject: RE: BS: restoring an old toaster From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 07 Nov 10 - 03:26 PM Bob's idea about plugging in via a circuit-breaker sounds as if it should save your life if you go for the old type flex and things go wrong. They didn't have three core flexes while I was growing up, and we survived. Used to plug things into the light socket... |
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Subject: RE: BS: restoring an old toaster From: Richard Bridge Date: 07 Nov 10 - 05:21 PM RCD sounds a good plan. Not too many years ago all breakers were ELCB and of course with no earth that was not going to be a plan. In fact if I had an RCD I could use it (maybe after a Variac) to enable me to use my giant Desoutter electric drill - centuries old, about 1.5 horsepower but has a tendency to trip ELCBs! Anyway, I have taken a chance and used a section (it was visually OK) of the cotton-covered braided twin core flex that was on the item. Getting a grommet on the body the right size was a game, but essential in view of the abrasion on the existing flex a the entry point. Live to body short if the insulation gave did not look like a good idea! Works so far. I think I'll go and make some toast (but I will make a point of touching it with the back of my hand first). I remember when I was in the corps at school a very poncy NCO was demonstrating the risks of a badly wired 62 set - did the back of hand routine, and punched himself in the eye! We laughed until the tears ran down our trouserlegs. |
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Subject: RE: BS: restoring an old toaster From: Rapparee Date: 07 Nov 10 - 05:49 PM Better that than reflexively holding on! Strange...the Army taught me to follow edges with the back of my hand and I still do that. Got shocked a couple of times like that.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: restoring an old toaster From: Penny S. Date: 07 Nov 10 - 06:04 PM Could you guys explain this back of hand thing - I'd be a bit reluctant to touch anything I was doubtful about? I did get pushed across a classroom once by a badly wired record player, and wouldn't want to repeat it. My Dad got a small shock from an army lorry once as part of his training (by accident, he wasn't supposed to find out that way that the NCO had stuck a cigarette paper over some crucial connection), but that wasn't mains. Penny |
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Subject: RE: BS: restoring an old toaster From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 07 Nov 10 - 06:26 PM Brings back memories of long ago. I remember a flip-up toaster my parents got with dad's cigar coupons. Depression Days. Previously they had used the stove top. Easy in the States and Canada, since a plug without ground will work (we have old floor and 1930s bridge lamps). A cord with circuit breaker is recommended, however. Dunno if UK appliances will work without the ground (earth) wire. Go to an electrical shop and ask. |
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Subject: RE: BS: restoring an old toaster From: Richard Bridge Date: 07 Nov 10 - 06:37 PM Q - yes it will (mostly) it's O level physics. Penny - yes - an electric shock causes the muscles affected to contract. So if your hand is facingthe object, the contraction pushes you r ahnd into it. WOrse, if your ahnd is holding it, it's the devil to let go. I did that with an electric drill once. By the time I managed to throw it across the workshop a fair bit of my righ t ahnd palm was a bit cooked! |
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Subject: RE: BS: restoring an old toaster From: open mike Date: 07 Nov 10 - 09:04 PM likewise in a possible house fire situation if you are feeling the door to see if it is hot (indicating there is fire on the other side) feel with the back of your hand-. If you do get burned, the palm of your hand is going to make life harder as you use your hands and fingers for so much...and if part of your hand will end up being in- capacitated, you will be better off if it is NOT the palm. |
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Subject: RE: BS: restoring an old toaster From: DougR Date: 08 Nov 10 - 12:23 AM Just spring for a new one, Richard. Do you realize how many people might be deprived of a job because you are trying to overhaul and use an antique toaster? Maybe we could begin a fund drive of some sort hear on the Mudcat to subsidize your purchase if your government won't help you replace it. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: restoring an old toaster From: Richard Bridge Date: 08 Nov 10 - 05:22 AM I have two new toasters, and have just given a third away. But this old jalopy is so nice! I have hifi amps and a turntable and even some speakers from the late 70s - still sound good. I have PA amps from the 80s that still sound good, and a 60s Selmer 100/6 SV pa head that makes a great guitar amp in the Marshall of HiWatt vein and an H/H guitar combo still good for some sorts of sounds. My Volvos are late 80s. I have acoustic guitars (my Hagstroms) from the 60s still sound great. Next summer I think I might restore that 60s Suffolk Super Punch lawnmower. People throw too much away. |
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Subject: RE: BS: restoring an old toaster From: Mrrzy Date: 08 Nov 10 - 10:09 AM Tee hee! |
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Subject: RE: BS: restoring an old toaster From: theleveller Date: 08 Nov 10 - 10:16 AM I love old-fashioned toasters - the sort with a handle and two prongs that you push into the bread before holding in front of a fire.No danger of electrocution but some risk of second dgree burns. Makes great toast, though. |
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Subject: RE: BS: restoring an old toaster From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 08 Nov 10 - 10:33 AM Do you have Life Insurance? If so, make it out to me.... ;0) |
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Subject: RE: BS: restoring an old toaster From: Richard Bridge Date: 08 Nov 10 - 10:42 AM I have one of those but it has three prongs. But it takes a while to get the fire just right. No equal for crumpets however. |
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Subject: RE: BS: restoring an old toaster From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 08 Nov 10 - 12:20 PM Who is the strange person responsible for the crumpet? Pliable, like rubber, and tastes the same. Never be the equal of the scone. And how do you make them in a toaster? |
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Subject: RE: BS: restoring an old toaster From: theleveller Date: 08 Nov 10 - 01:21 PM "I have one of those but it has three prongs." Ah, mthe deluxe model = is that the brass one with the castle handle? We're saving up for one of those but we've only just upgraded from a pointy stick. "No equal for crumpets however." Too true = or pikelets as we call them in Yorkshire (OH NO, NOT THAT DISCUSSION AGAIN). |
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Subject: RE: BS: restoring an old toaster From: WalkaboutsVerse Date: 08 Nov 10 - 01:26 PM The best thing since sliced bread would be a pop-up toaster with either deeper or longer slots - perhaps I could have paid more, but with mine a standard slice sticks out too far, and does not fit if turned the other way. :-(> |
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Subject: RE: BS: restoring an old toaster From: acegardener Date: 08 Nov 10 - 01:41 PM Could you toaster experts please explain why modern toasters have 6 numbers on the settings when the toast is usually burnt on no.3. And why does the clip on a sandwich toaster always breaks 2 days after the garantee runs out. |
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Subject: RE: BS: restoring an old toaster From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 08 Nov 10 - 05:22 PM I have a guilty confession to make. I tried to "fix" Open Mike's links in her post above, and somehow goofed. For the first few links it was fine, but I got underlining into one, and couldn't find what command it was, and so couldn't turn it off. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea culpa! Hope I didn't do any harm. Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: BS: restoring an old toaster From: dick greenhaus Date: 09 Nov 10 - 12:03 AM You're not likely to start a fire with an ungrounded toaster, but you could get a nasty shock. If you must use one, connect a grounding wire to the toaster's case. A polarized plug would be a good idea (assuming that one leg of your power supply is grounded) but a grounding wire, even in that case, is a good precaution. |
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Subject: RE: BS: restoring an old toaster From: GUEST,Jon Date: 09 Nov 10 - 12:30 AM I'm reasonably sure that it is illegal in the UK for a business (and this includes charity) to sell an electrical item that does not conform to current standards I'm unsure and not electrician but I think in such cases it would need PAT testing Equipment to do it that I have seen is not cheap. |
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Subject: RE: BS: restoring an old toaster From: Richard Bridge Date: 09 Nov 10 - 03:39 AM PAT testing is needed if the public are to use ANY item of electrical equipment. |
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Subject: RE: BS: restoring an old toaster From: Richard Bridge Date: 09 Nov 10 - 05:37 AM I have traced the now merged company that made it and it is between 1947 and 1956 - maybe more accurately datable once I send them a picture. |
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Subject: RE: BS: restoring an old toaster From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler Date: 09 Nov 10 - 08:22 AM Would the flex used on electric irons be the sort you are looking for? Tend to be white rather than the retro looking brown that used to be common. They are fairly widely available for replacing worn ones. My father managed to survive a 40,000 volt shock off a magnetron from an early radar set but I would still be very wary of an un-earthed appliance. Try asking on a specialist site that deals with electrical queries (some try to charge you). |
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Subject: RE: BS: restoring an old toaster From: Richard Bridge Date: 09 Nov 10 - 08:30 AM I can get 3-core kettle flex with a cotton sleeve that looks fairly authentic, but it will mean first creating an earth point in the body of the toaster (probably not too hard) and making a larger entry hole (and finding a grommet to fit the hole - that could be surprisingly hard). So far it hasn't killed me. The makers are quite excited about it and a picture will likely be going up on their website soon. I'll add a linky when it happens. |
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Subject: RE: BS: restoring an old toaster From: Penny S. Date: 09 Nov 10 - 05:22 PM I am now wondering why, in clearing my Dad's house, we did not find the toasting fork. As I recall, it had a sliding piece on it which ejected the toast to enable the other side to be done. It was chromed, and had three tines. Penny |
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Subject: RE: BS: restoring an old toaster From: Richard Bridge Date: 09 Nov 10 - 06:18 PM Old Nick took it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: restoring an old toaster From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 09 Nov 10 - 07:25 PM Who nicked it? |
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Subject: RE: BS: restoring an old toaster From: GUEST,OldNicKilby Date: 10 Nov 10 - 09:35 AM Take not my name in vain. Richard it would be a good idea to get a qualified electrician to fit a Residual Current Device(R C D) or Earth Leakage Unit Wonderful bits of kit that make the system totally safe. Get the P A T tester who does the office to test the Toaster when it is finished ,that way it does not cost very much. You can always re-imburse the practice Good Luck with the project |
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Subject: RE: BS: restoring an old toaster From: Richard Bridge Date: 10 Nov 10 - 11:10 AM I'm sure it is possible to get plug in RCDs. The toaster is working perfectly at the moment. |
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Subject: RE: BS: restoring an old toaster From: Richard Bridge Date: 10 Nov 10 - 11:12 AM http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/13-amp-RCD-SAFETY-ADAPTOR-new-and-sealed-/120643390045?pt=UK_BOI_CircuitBreakers_RL&hash=item1c16e80a5d |
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Subject: RE: BS: restoring an old toaster From: The Sandman Date: 10 Nov 10 - 12:58 PM buy yourself a wood/ coal range, and throw the toaster away, at the same time you can write a folk song about how good the old toaster was. |
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Subject: RE: BS: restoring an old toaster From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 10 Nov 10 - 02:31 PM Wood/coal range? Oh my! Adding noxious greenhouse gases to the atmosphere. Fixing an earth shouldn't be too difficult. Instructions for electrical hobby kits had instructions. Should be something on the net. |
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Subject: RE: BS: restoring an old toaster From: Richard Bridge Date: 10 Nov 10 - 03:46 PM I have a wood/coal burner. It takes a lot longer to light than plugging in a toaster does. Yes, I can jury-rig an earth, but I think I'll just plug in an RCD. ELCB of course won't work with no E (like many dance musicians). |
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Subject: RE: BS: restoring an old toaster From: GUEST,OldNicKilby Date: 11 Nov 10 - 04:49 AM Isn't being your own electrician a bit like "The man that is his own Solicitor has a fool for a Client"? |
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Subject: RE: BS: restoring an old toaster From: Richard Bridge Date: 11 Nov 10 - 05:50 AM Nope. A solicitor needs to form independent judgment on often imponderable variables. An electrician needs to know Ohms law. |
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Subject: RE: BS: restoring an old toaster From: Gurney Date: 11 Nov 10 - 02:31 PM More power to your elbow, Richard. Actually, RCD SOCKETS are a good idea for laundry/kitchen/bathroom anyway, and many expensive houses here have them, particularly in bathrooms where they replace the old-type isolating sockets marked 'Shaver'. Poor people have to take their chances. 230V! Threw our 2YO toaster away yesterday. It locked down with an electro-magnet, and that stopped working. $18 for a new toaster. |
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Subject: RE: BS: restoring an old toaster From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 11 Nov 10 - 02:59 PM For the few in UK that might not know- Canada-U. S. have separate 220-230 and 110 volt lines. Toasters, microwaves, shavers and other appliances all 110 volt. The kitchen range, furnace (and air conditioning if a full house unit) are the only installations operating on 220v. |
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Subject: RE: BS: restoring an old toaster From: The Sandman Date: 11 Nov 10 - 03:36 PM Nope. A solicitor needs to form independent judgment on often imponderable variables i love it, spoken by a completely impartial independent person who happens to be a solicitor. solicitors should stick to soliciting, and let electricians get on with turning people on. |
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Subject: RE: BS: restoring an old toaster From: Gurney Date: 11 Nov 10 - 11:15 PM Fair play, Schweik. Some of the people that I've seen soliciting wouldn't turn me on. Maybe when I was a desperate young man..... |
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Subject: RE: BS: restoring an old toaster From: Van Date: 12 Nov 10 - 05:53 AM Had fun once when we had problems with a fridge freezer. Switched it off, sussed what was wrong, swtched it back on and went through to tell my wife that I could fix it. It needed a new part. we went through to the kitchen and I said it's this bit here, touching it. Ended at the other side of the room resulting in a ban from ever doing anything electrcal again. Similar misfortune with a ladder lead to ban from using them. |
