DT Corr: Two Young Brethren

Subject: RE: DT Corr: Two Young Brethren
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 17 Jul 11 - 01:43 AM

He did. I have to an extent, in my version, folk-processed it [with Peter's knowledge & not disapproval] by reversing the order of "We would swim in the brook" and "We followed the reapers" verses; seems to me to make just a little more effect that way, going straight from the "hedgerows" to the "Things they do alter ... the hedges all fell".

One of his best songs ~~ indeed, I said in my obituary of Pete for The Guardian that it was IMO among the best songs of the Revival, and quoted the whole of the "Bring up my sons" verse. The obit can be found here

http://www.bens.connectfree.co.uk/pb/FIRST2.HTM#obits

~M~

Subject: RE: DT Corr: Two Young Brethren
From: Garry Gillard
Date: 17 Jul 11 - 01:19 AM

Peter Bellamy recorded Farewell to the Land on Tell It Like It Was (1975).

Subject: RE: DT Corr: Two Young Brethren
From: Garry Gillard
Date: 17 Jul 11 - 01:09 AM

It was I who provided the transcription (now on the Coppers' own site) that Joe uses for the corrections in the first post in this thread, though he doubted my 'withal'. I'm pleased that the consensus is now with me. I was happy to hear Jon Boden include it in his Folk Song a Day last August: it's a fine song.

Garry

Subject: RE: DT Corr: Two Young Brethren
From: GUEST,crazy little woman
Date: 13 Nov 10 - 02:34 PM

It was supposed to be:

I will sing and make merry with y'all.

Subject: RE: DT Corr: Two Young Brethren
From: Joe Offer
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 06:37 PM

I found the song in A Song for Every Season, by Bob Copper (1971, 1975), page 215. The words are exactly what I posted in the second text in the first message - including the term "withal" at the end of the first verse.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: DT Corr: Two Young Brethren
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 05:18 PM

'Withal' also has the meaning 'moreover, or in addition', which is surely the Coppers' meaning here.

~M~

Subject: RE: DT Corr: Two Young Brethren
From: GUEST,^&*
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 05:02 PM

But do any of us have the wherewithal?

In addition to the prepositional usage described by GUESTleenia, "withal" can be used adverbially to mean "at the same time" (Concise Oxford Dictionary). That's probably what was intended in the song. Either way, the origin is from Middle English "with + all", apparently.

Subject: RE: DT Corr: Two Young Brethren
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 03:36 PM

I have just realized that although I have seen the word 'withal' many times over the years, that I did not know its actual meaning. So I looked it up.

'Withal' simply means 'with', but it always comes after the object noun. They gave a phrase from Job as an example:

a potsherd to scrape himself withal

This means the same as 'a potsherd to scrape himself with.'

Now, I can say, "I can only scrape myself clean with a potsherd," but I can't say "I can only scrape myself clean withal a potsherd."

So the first verse was right the first time. The last line should say

I will sing and make merry with all (i.e., with all of us here)

Because if it were 'withal', we would have to ask - wherewith withal?

Subject: RE: DT Corr: Two Young Brethren
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 04:38 AM

It might be worth adding, btw, that Peter Bellamy's father was by occupation a farm bailiff, and he himself grew up on a farm near Wells-next-the-Sea, Norfolk.

~Michael~

Subject: ADD: Farewell to the Land (Peter Bellamy)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 02:35 AM

FAREWELL TO THE LAND
by Peter Bellamy
[tune from The Copper Family]

It is of two young brethren, young brethren born
It is of two young brethren born.
My brother was a shepherd, a tender of sheep,
And I am a planter of corn.

On this land our father's grandfather did toil
In this village a family did raise
He followed his team and ploughed up the soil
Content to the end of his days.

To a cottage Grandfather did bring his young bride
And there our own father did dwell
There we in our season did likewise reside
In our turn learned to love it right well.

We swam in the brook when the sun it did shine
The hayloft our haven when skies they did frown.
For blackberries we ranged o'er the wide countryside
For mushrooms the fields all round.

On the high two-horse wagon to the field we would ride
We would follow the reapers a long summer's day
Then homeward we'd creep in the cool eventide
Through the hedgerows our own secret way.

But things they will alter as time do go on
Soon the hedges all fell to the plough
By the time we left school all the horses had gone
And the tractor's the trade we learn now

But still we plough and we sow, we reap and we mow
Mechanical skills do acquire
But for all of our labour our wage remains low
And there's nought we can do makes it higher.

Now I bring up my sons in a small caravan
For the cottage where my roots were put down
Has been sold by the farmer to a rich city man
Where he'll spend a few weekends from Town.

Three years since my brother, he bade me farewell
For a factory job he moved away
Now he writes for to tell me every once in a while
How he earns about three times my pay.

For our wage won't maintain us and I cannot deny
I have failed where I meant for to stand
For the time it is come though it fair makes me cry
When I must say 'Farewell' to the land.

Subject: RE: DT Corr: Two Young Brethren
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 02:14 AM

Joe asks me to provide a link to my singing of Peter Bellamy's above-mentioned song. It is on my Youtube channel

http://www.youtube.com/user/mgmyer


I shall return & post the words, as he also requests, a little later.

~Michael~

Subject: Lyr Add: Two Young Brethren
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 05:01 PM

Minor (but important) corrections based on information at http://www.thecopperfamily.com

TWO YOUNG BRETHREN

Come all jolly ploughmen and help me to sing
I will sing in the praise of you all
If a man he don't labour how can he get bread
I will sing and make merry with all (withal???)

It was of two young brethren, two young brethren bold born
I It was of two young brethren bold born
One he was a shepherd and a tender of sheep
The other a planter of corn

We will rile it, we will tile it through mud and through clay
We will plough it up deeper and low
Then after comes the seedsman his corn for to sow
And the harrows to rake it in rose rows

There is April, there is May, there is June and July
What a pleasure it is for to see the corn grow
In August we will reap it, we will cut, sheaf and bind it
And go down with our scythes for to mow

And after we've reaped it of off every sheaf
And have gathered of up every ear
With a drop of good beer, boys, and our hearts full of cheer
We will wish them another good year

Our barns they are full and our fields they are clear
Good health to our master and friends
We will make no more to do but we'll plough and we'll sow
And prepare for the very next year

------------------------------------------------------------------
recorded by Dave Weatherhall & Martin Hall on "Voices. Traditional
English Songs" (1991)

"A song from the Copper Family of Rottingdean. It is a rustic idyll
about a way - and pace - of life which has all but disappeared."

@farm @drink @harmony @months @seasonal

filename[ TWOBRETH
TUNE FILE: TWOBRETH
CLICK TO PLAY
MJ

---

Here's the entire text:

TWO YOUNG BRETHREN

Come all jolly ploughmen and help me to sing,
I will sing in the praise of you all,
If a man he don't labour how can he get bread?
I will sing and make merry withal.

It was of two young brethren, two young brethren born,
It was of two young brethren born,
One he was a shepherd and a tender of sheep
The other a planter of corn.

We will rile it, we will tile it through mud and through clay,
We will plough it up deeper and low,
Then after comes the seedsman his corn for to sow
And the harrows to rake it in rows.

There is April, there is May, there is June and July
What a pleasure it is for to see the corn grow.
In August we will reap it, we will cut, sheaf and bind it
And go down with our scythes for to mow.

And after we've reaped it off every sheaf
And have gathered up every ear,
With a drop of good beer, boys, and our hearts full of cheer
We will wish them another good year.

Our barns they are full, our fields they are clear,
Good health to our master and friends.
We will make no more to do but we'll plough and we'll sow
And prepare for the very next year.

Source: A Song for Every Season, by Bob Copper (1971, 1975), page 215

Note from Michael Myer: Peter Bellamy used the tune + an [appropriately edited] 2nd verse of this [as his first verse] for his fine song "Farewell To The Land".