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Lyr Req: Montague Whaler (Bernie Bruen)

Phot 14 Nov 10 - 04:40 AM
GUEST,Derrick 14 Nov 10 - 09:59 AM
Phot 14 Nov 10 - 10:59 AM
GUEST,Derrick 14 Nov 10 - 12:03 PM
bubblyrat 14 Nov 10 - 01:27 PM
Ged Fox 14 Nov 10 - 02:54 PM
Commander Crabbe 14 Nov 10 - 04:15 PM
Sugwash 14 Nov 10 - 04:43 PM
Phot 15 Nov 10 - 07:29 AM
EBarnacle 15 Nov 10 - 07:46 PM
Sugwash 18 Nov 10 - 04:32 AM
Jim Dixon 22 Nov 10 - 09:38 AM
Jenny S 17 Jul 11 - 08:55 AM
Teribus 18 Jul 11 - 12:18 AM
Teribus 18 Jul 11 - 12:29 AM
GUEST 15 Sep 11 - 06:58 PM
GUEST 15 Sep 11 - 07:05 PM
Jim Dixon 20 Sep 11 - 09:40 AM
GUEST,Bernie Bruen 14 Mar 12 - 08:07 AM
GUEST 19 Jun 12 - 02:17 PM
GUEST 24 Jul 12 - 07:05 PM
GUEST 13 Nov 12 - 07:31 AM
GUEST,henryp 13 Nov 12 - 08:58 AM
bubblyrat 13 Nov 12 - 09:01 AM
Ged Fox 13 Nov 12 - 09:15 AM
Ged Fox 13 Nov 12 - 09:35 AM
bubblyrat 13 Nov 12 - 11:52 AM
bubblyrat 13 Nov 12 - 12:03 PM
MartinRyan 13 Nov 12 - 12:53 PM
GUEST,HSCS Cox'n 17 Nov 12 - 05:09 PM
Ged Fox 18 Nov 12 - 05:30 AM
GUEST 17 Jun 13 - 12:23 PM
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Subject: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler
From: Phot
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 04:40 AM

Hi all,

I heard a snatch of this song sung by Shep Wooley. Would anyone have the full lyrics?

Wassail!! Chris


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler
From: GUEST,Derrick
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 09:59 AM

A recording of the song can be found in The British Library sound
archival recordings. I found by searching using the Question "the montegue whaler". I would like to post a link but sadly I don't know to.
Hope this helps you find it


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler
From: Phot
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 10:59 AM

Thanks Derrick, I'll look it up!

Wassail!! Chris


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler
From: GUEST,Derrick
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 12:03 PM

Hello again Chris.
I may have slightly misled you.
The search question I quoted was for the google type search I used which led me to archive site.
The title for the archive search is "Montague whaler"


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler
From: bubblyrat
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 01:27 PM

The Montague whaler ! Great fun ! Good to "pull" (row) or sail,with her loose-footed, dipping- lug rig ; I nearly died in one (1964) once,pulling back into Portsmouth harbour,past Fort Blockhouse,when a Fast Attack Craft ( "Gay Swordsman",or "Gay Cavalier" or something---yes! the RN had ships called things like that in those days !!) shot past us at about 18 knots ,and the wash completely swamped us !
   Later , circa 1970/71, whilst serving with "Daedalus" Boats Party at Hornet Naval Yacht Centre, (now JSSC),Haslar Creek, I helped to train two Fire Brigade crews, from Portsmouth & Southsea,for their inaugural annual whaler race between their two respective piers; great fun !! Never heard a song about one,though !


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler
From: Ged Fox
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 02:54 PM

I heard a woman sing it a month or so ago (Bampton or Boarhunt?) - I only remember the line "The days of the Montague whaler will not come again" or something miserable like that. The boat really deserves a much more robust sort of song.
I used to own such a whaler, in Portsmouth harbour, in the 1970's, but my earliest memory of one was from about 1960, fending one off from Haslar wall in a stiff breeze as we tried to make our way back to HMS Vernon, whence my naval uncle had borrowed it (the whaler, that is, not the wall.)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler
From: Commander Crabbe
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 04:15 PM

Bubblyrat

The good old Montague "3 in 1" been in a couple myself but never heard Shep sing it.

The boat that nearly ran you down was "Brave Swordsman" her sister ship was "Brave Borderer".

The british library link is:

Click here



CC


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler
From: Sugwash
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 04:43 PM

Written by Bernie Bruen (Later commander RN)


Well your lacings are frayed
And your sheets disarrayed
And your travellers jammed at the yard
You've lost crinkle and bone
And your planking is thrown
And the grease in your pintle's gone hard

Well your garbut strake's split
And your stretchers don't fit
And your paintwork's beginning to peel
Your gunnels have slipped
And your tiller's unshipped
And the deadwood's adrift from your keel

They once sailed you proud
Sang your praises out loud
The pride of the fleet that you served
No more will they shout
As they bring you about
Is this the reward you deserve?

For your legend's been told
By the sailors of old
Of the lives that you saved from the sea
You're the last galley 'ots
You've been left here to rot
Now who's going to save you for me?

When you shake out your reef
Take the wind by its teeth
And you sail into history and song
Though they've thrown you away
Please recall what I say
Forgive us for being so wrong

So away with your kelson
And away with your yard
And away with your mizzen and main
For the days of the Montague Whaler
Are the days we shall not see again


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler
From: Phot
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 07:29 AM

Thanks Sugwash! Brilliant!

Wassail!! Chris


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler
From: EBarnacle
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 07:46 PM

In line 1, verse 2, the word should probably be garb'rd or garb'd rather than garbut, as the full word is correctly garboard.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler
From: Sugwash
Date: 18 Nov 10 - 04:32 AM

Thanks for that EBarnacle, I ought to have known, but I spent my time in diesel submarines and we only had a rubber dingy in the way of a ship's boat (or, more correctly, a boat's boat).

My only experience of rowing boats was when our over-enthusiastic skipper used to challenge other ships and boats to a boat race against his 'lads' whilst alongside in Plymouth. I don't know what kind of boats they were, probably a launches, but I do remember thinking of Bernie Bruen's song as we gasped our way past Jupiter Point, ruining my precious musician's hands in the process.

Aye

Andy


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 22 Nov 10 - 09:38 AM

You can hear Bernie Bruen singing MONTAGUE WHALER at The British Library Archival Sound Recordings.

Wikipedia lacks an entry for "Montague Whaler" though it's mentioned in an article about Cooks Yard, Maldon, Essex, where they were built and repaired.


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Subject: Lyr Add: MONTAGUE WHALER (Bernie Bruen)
From: Jenny S
Date: 17 Jul 11 - 08:55 AM

Here are the words as I had them direct from Bernie (via Cos): basically the same as Sug posted above, but with Bernie's spelling. Hope Bernie doesn't mind us posting them here?

So away with your keelson, away with your yard,
Away with your mizzen and main,
For the days of the Montague Whaler
Are the days we will not see again.

Your lacings are frayed and your sheets disarrayed.
Your traveller's jammed at the yard.
You've lost cringle and bung and your planking is sprung
And the grease in your pintle's gone hard.

Your garboard strake's split and your stretchers don't fit.
Your paintwork's beginning to peel.
Your gun'ls have dipped and your tiller's unshipped
And the deadwood'd adrift from your keel.

They once sailed you proud, sang your praises out loud,
The pride of the ships that you served,
But no more will they shout as they put you about.
Is this the reward you deserved?

Your legend's been told by the sailors of old
Of the lives that you've saved from the sea.
You're the last Galliot. You've been left here to rot.
Now who's going to save you for me?

When you shake out your reef, take the wind by its teeth,
And sail into history and song,
Though we've thrown you away, please recall what I say.
Forgive us for being so wrong.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler
From: Teribus
Date: 18 Jul 11 - 12:18 AM

The Montague Whaler and the "3-in-1" were completely different craft the latter was the "ship's boat" that replaced the Montague Whaler which had no engine, the "3-in-1" was a straight forward cutter rig whereas the Montague Whaler was a yawl.

One of the fastest recoveries of a "Man Overboard" by ship's boat was recorded from a Destroyer equipped with a Montague Whaler - the time 90 seconds.

I once watched Brave Borderer preparing for sea once, the routine was to start up her cruising diesels then fire up her main engines which were gas turbines. On this occasion the jet blast from the latter knocked a Bosun dinghy over. Credited with a top speed of over 60 knots "Borderer" and "Swordsman" in the right conditions could leave Portland and be in Cherbourg within 45 minutes, the new fast ferry "cats" take 2 hours.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler
From: Teribus
Date: 18 Jul 11 - 12:29 AM

Having just listened to the link of the song, the person singing sounds like Shep Woolley.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler (Bernie Bruen)
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 06:58 PM

I believe the last Montague whaler was used at HMS Caroline RNR base in Belfast.She was often used and well cared for until the Navy in their wisdom decided to burn her replacing her with 'plastic' boats.She was destroyed in the early '80's.Sad.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler (Bernie Bruen)
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 07:05 PM

Shep did sing the song, It's on one of his early albums. Can anyone give me info about a poem which was on the same album? BATTLE OF TRAFALGAR. It started,

"I'll tell you a seafaring story,
Of a lad who won honour and fame,
Wi' Nelson at battle o' Trafalgar,
Joe Muggeridge, that were his name."

It's about 30 verses long but a great party piece for 'spent seamen'.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler (Bernie Bruen)
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 20 Sep 11 - 09:40 AM

Last Guest: The poem you want is GUNNER JOE. It was written by Marriott Edgar, recited by Stanley Holloway, and is available on several CDs. You can also see the complete text at http://monologues.co.uk/Gunner_Joe.htm. There are lots more monologues at that web site.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler (Bernie Bruen)
From: GUEST,Bernie Bruen
Date: 14 Mar 12 - 08:07 AM

Hi Folks,
Glad to see there are still people interested in the Montague Whaler. I wrote the song after passing the 'dead Boat pound', just inside the dockyard gate in Pompey, where I saw a large number of these once well-loved boats left to rot. That night I woke with the words in my head and quickly scribbled them down and they were still there the next morning. The song has not changed since. Shep recorded it on his album 'Goodbye Sailor' (or was it 'Songs for Oars and Scrubbers?) and still sings it to this day. I have come across it sung all around the world and it is published in the latest edition of the Oxford Book of Sea Songs - 'Boxing the Compass'. Apart from the Montagues upon which I lavished much time in the RN, I once owned (saved) the Montague Swan, last heard of somewhere in Cornwall and I hope still going strong. I was once asked for permission to sing the song by a well known Folk singer and my reply was then and is now, "Songs are for singing."


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler (Bernie Bruen)
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 02:17 PM

I'll tell you a sea faring story
of a lad who won 'onour and fame,
wi Nelson, at battle of Trafalgar.
Joe Muggeridge, that were 'is name.

This was from Shep Wooley's last Gig on before leaving the The Grey Funnel Line. Recorded at H.M.S. Excellent, Whale Island, it was called "Goodbye Sailor"!
Fond memories.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler (Bernie Bruen)
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jul 12 - 07:05 PM

Bit late I know, but i do have the album, lol, Shep and the Whalers.
Joking, lemme know? Ada


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler (Bernie Bruen)
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 07:31 AM

I sing this song frequently acapella, at the Fleece in Bretforton(Worcs) . I first heard Shep sing it at a P.O's mess bash, many years ago.. but for some reason the line ' grease in your pintles gone hard' often draws a snigger from the landlubbers and for me ruins the seriousness and feeling of the song, so I sing 'gone bad' instead.
-a lovely song
thanks Bernie

ex-PO Tiff
aka 'MuddleC'


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler (Bernie Bruen)
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 08:58 AM

"The Montagu Whaler was the standard Royal Navy ship's boat from before WW1 to the 1960s, designed aroung 1900 by an Admiral Montagu."

I presume this is the Admiral Montagu responsible;

http://www.hinchhouse.org.uk/fifth/admiral.html Admiral Victor Alexander Montagu CB was born 20.4.1841 and died 29.1.1915.

5th Feb 1915 We regret to announce the death of Rear Admiral the Hon Victor Alexander Montagu CB, brother and heir presumptive to the present Earl of Sandwich. Born in 1841 he was the second son of the Seventh Earl of Sandwich and Lady Margaret Paget.

Entering the navy in December 1853 he saw considerable service as a midshipman in the war with Russia, the China War and the Indian Mutiny. He told how on the same day he was asked to dine with both Queen Victoria and the German Kaiser, some great distance apart.

He solved the situation by first dining with the Queen at Osbourne, excusing himself, being driven in a fast cab to the Kaier's launch and making a full costume change on the way.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler (Bernie Bruen)
From: bubblyrat
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 09:01 AM

Just re-read my posting , and No ! It wasn't a "Brave " -class anything ; they were not around in 1964 ! It was definitely a "Gay" -class launch .There really was a small flotilla of Fast Attack Craft " whose names began with "Gay" . Gay Fencer ? ; Gay Charioteer ? Someone , look it up, please !
          Meanwhile ; the Montague whaler might appear somewhere other than Wikipedia under its alternative name of "De Horsy " rig , as that sail-plan was known. I remember "mousing the hooks" ; archaic ,but simple and effective (and fun !).


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler (Bernie Bruen)
From: Ged Fox
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 09:15 AM

The "De Horsey" rig was for cutters


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler (Bernie Bruen)
From: Ged Fox
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 09:35 AM

Oops - that was a bit abrupt.

The De Horsey rig consisted of a foresail & a gaff mainsail, and was used on pinnaces and cutters.

The Montague rig used on whalers consisted of foresail, standing lug mainsail & a mizzen sail.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler (Bernie Bruen)
From: bubblyrat
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 11:52 AM

DIPPING-lug mainsail ; one had to get up and " dip " the bottom of the yard every time one went about . And in the RN Seamanship Manual , the whaler rig is described as " Montague or De Horsey rig " ( sorry , I forgot the "e" earlier ).But maybe there was a choice ? ; something I'd never considered before !


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler (Bernie Bruen)
From: bubblyrat
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 12:03 PM

YEP ! QED ! Gay as you like , the lot of 'em ; HMS Gay Archer, Gay Bombardier , Gay Bowman ,Gay Bruiser , Gay Carabineer, Gay Cavalier , Gay Centurion , Gay Charger , Gay Charioteer , Gay Dragoon , Gay Fencer , and Gay Forester . No comedians , please .


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler (Bernie Bruen)
From: MartinRyan
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 12:53 PM

Click here for plans and some nice stories.

Regards


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler (Bernie Bruen)
From: GUEST,HSCS Cox'n
Date: 17 Nov 12 - 05:09 PM

For interest, Gents and Tiffs,
We have two Montagues in Boathouse4 in Pompey Dockyard Heritage Area with another one being delivered first week in December. We had one out sailing today (17/11/2012) in the Solent to give some practice to some wafoos who are re-creating Shackletons' epic sail from Antarctica to Elephant Island in January 2013 (Mad b****ers)
If anyone wants a close look at them, approach the barriers within the Boathouse and shout "Tot Time".
Regards
Historic Small Craft Section


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler (Bernie Bruen)
From: Ged Fox
Date: 18 Nov 12 - 05:30 AM

HSCS: How can I join?

Bubblyrat: As I understand it, the dipping lug has its tack attached before the mast, and the standing lug has the tack attached to the mast. My Admiralty Manual of Seamanship (date missing, but 1940s I think) describes the Montague rig as having a standing lug, even though, as you say, the yard was dipped on tacking. The whaler rig certainly changed over time. The 1915 MofS shows the whaler with 2 dipping lug sails as an alternative to the Montague rig. Teribus says above that the 3-in-1 had a cutter rig, so that was, presumably de Horsey.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler (Bernie Bruen)
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jun 13 - 12:23 PM

Sorry but I have to correct the 3in1 thread - this was a gunter rig ie mast and gaff about the same length to stow in the boat. When rigged for sailing the gaff was hauled up close to the mast (like a RNSA 14ft Dinghy)to increase height and offering better close hauled performance similar to a Bermudan rig.

I used to sail cutters, whalers (and RNSAs) as a cadet at TS Mercury and we dipped both yards when tacking or gybing

I came by this site looking for the correct name for the split hook arrangement used to attach the whaler main sheet a bar in the boat's side when changing tacks. The cutter main sheet went to a sailing horse on the transom.


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