BS: Should Obama Run in '12???

Subject: RE: BS: Should Obama Run in '12???
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 02:40 PM

I hate to sound like a defeatist, but America and Humpty Dumpty have much in common.

Subject: RE: BS: Should Obama Run in '12???
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 02:26 PM

Obama is a pretty decent Conservative, as Conservatives go, and you're never going to get anyone to the left of him elected in the USA.

Subject: RE: BS: Should Obama Run in '12???
From: Wesley S
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 11:10 AM

If the Republician Party and the tea party whackos are this pissed off at him then that's proof to me that he's doing a good job. Some of them hate him because he's black - and some hate him because he's gotten a lot of things done. But he hasn't gone far enough to suit me. So I hope he runs again. And I hope Sarah Palin runs against him. Because I don't think she has a chance in hell to get elected. She has a base but it's not big enough to get her elected.

Subject: RE: BS: Should Obama Run in '12???
From: GUEST,Neil D
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 10:28 AM

From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 11:53 PM

If Obama extends the tax cuts for the rich, I don't think I will be able to work for him or donate to him again.


Sorry Jack but it's a done deal. But true progressives in this country have always had to hold their noses and VOTE LOTE because true progressives have no chance at being president, think Dennis K. But a middle of the road moderate Democrat is still better by far than anything that can win a Republican primary these days. And Schoen and Caddell are yellow dog defeatists. If job growth continues to lag, and it will if the corporate banking system determines that winning one house wasn't enough, then we could lose the senate in 2012. Then keeping the White House and it's veto power could be the only barrier against the most brutal economic attack on the working class in my lifetime.

Subject: RE: BS: Should Obama Run in '12???
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 08:40 AM

Funny, I thought an entitlement was something you were entitled to. Amazing how teapublicans can use virtuous terms as epithets.

When I hear any significant and genuine attempt by the teapublicans to work with the democrats on any sort of genuine middle ground (not simply teapublican theft with different names) I'll consider whether the democrats might sensibly co-operate with the nutters. Until then I regret that Obama did not go in loaded for bear, but still consider him a better bet than any of the nutjob neanderthals the teapublicans can conjure up

Subject: RE: BS: Should Obama Run in '12???
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 08:34 AM

I don't believe that the Obama administration is all that steeped in liberalism, bruce... It's just that if you are getting your news from FOX and reading only the op-eds in the Post by Gerson, Will or Klodhopper then it must seem that way...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Should Obama Run in '12???
From: MarkS
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 08:28 AM

Sympathy for Obama kind of evaporated after I read of the waivers given to companies and unions, excusing them from participating in the new health care plan.

Subject: RE: BS: Should Obama Run in '12???
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 08:20 AM

"I am a progressive but that doesn't mean that I'm going to just take a stand that everything on our menu is just fine but just needs more money from the wealthy..."


HALLELUYAH!!!!!

Now, if we can get the present administration to feel this way...

Subject: RE: BS: Should Obama Run in '12???
From: Ron Davies
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 07:45 AM

"if Obama extends the tax cuts for the rich..."


That's the crux of his problem.    He will need his base--especially since if Sarah wins the Republican nomination, she will damn sure have hers.

But if his base is so incredibly shortsighted and self-destructive as to not work for him--as well as voting for him--they will have nobody but themselves to blame for 4 years or more under Sarah's regime---or that of Pawlenty, Gingrich, Romney, or whoever else the Republicans pick.   Because you can bet that nobody else--including Hillary--will be able to marshall the sort of passionate support across all ethnic groups and ages-- that President Obama had in his 2008 run.

And as far as "tax cuts for the rich"---he's already being deserted by Democratic Senators and Congressmen on this.   If he signs a bill extending tax cuts for all taxpayers and his erstwhile supporters sit on their hands as a result of it, that will show just how petty and shortsighted they can be.    It's not as if it was his proposal to extend tax cuts for the rich.

He has been more ambitious--and done more for the "progressive agenda"-- than anybody since FDR.   Health care reform, in particular, is a work in progress.   Only in the Left's dreams would a perfect system have sprung forth from Obama's forehead.

But nobody has ever accused the Left of being sensible.   If they were, there would never have been a Nader candidacy. Nor would there have been a big push for things like removing the 10 Commandments from courthouses, removing "under God" from the Pledge, etc--which did nothing but bring out the other side in force, very likely making the difference in 2004.   

Issue here is, of course, as I've mentioned before, that in running for a second term your main selling point has to be competence, not charisma.    And the president will always be judged on the economy (despite the fact that he has limited leverage over it)--unless there is a hot war going on, in which case that may well be paramount.

Subject: RE: BS: Should Obama Run in '12???
From: kendall
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 07:24 AM

Hillary and Sara! Canada, here I come!

Subject: RE: BS: Should Obama Run in '12???
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 07:02 AM

The problem with both Social Security and Medicare is two fold... They are expensive and underfunded... As people live longer and go around saying that 60 is the "new 50" it means that folks will be on it longer and it also means that alot of folks will be retiring when they are still in fine shape to continue working...

(That will get the howlers out, Boberdz... We thought you were a progressive...)

I am a progressive but that doesn't mean that I'm going to just take a stand that everything on our menu is just fine but just needs more money from the wealthy...

Speaking of the wealthy, unless progressives see them become involved then it's going to be a hard sell (like impossible) to the progressive side for any changes in Social Security or Medicare or Medicaid... There needs to be movement on both sides... Greater finacial participation from the rich in exchange foe some tinkering on the other end, which could include raising the retirement age by a year or so...

One other thing that the government could do to make Medicare more solvent would be to hire more claims people who acted more like private insurance claims people who understand tyhe meaning of the word no... Too much outright Medicare fraud and too much over-charging by legit providers...

I mean, no one is going to be real happy if we do fix some broken stuff... But that will mean that it was prolly done correctly...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Should Obama Run in '12???
From: Genie
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 01:48 AM

And Social Security isn't really an "entitlement program anyway, and I wish the politicians, including the Democrats, would quit calling it that.

If Obama's the Democratic nominee in 2012, I'll almost certainly vote for him unless there's a really viable 3rd-party candidate, which is highly unlikely.   But the liberal/progressive base who largely stayed home this November 2 aren't likely to show up in bigger numbers in 2010 if Obama and the Congressional Dems insist on moving to the "right" and calling it "the center."

Subject: RE: BS: Should Obama Run in '12???
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 01:06 AM

If he did, Doug, you would quickly have to start working on hating the next Democrat who runs for president... ;-) And I bet you could manage that just fine.

Think how bereft your loyal (Democratic) opposition is now that they don't have George Bush to bitch about fulltime anymore...and you'll maybe get what I mean about how bereft you would be for a short time with Obama retired from the scene. You'd be like the friggin' coyote with no road runner! Like Sylvester without Tweety Bird!

But, hey....Hillary! Think about that, Doug. There are yet great possibilities ahead upon which to focus your political hostility and scorn.

Subject: RE: BS: Should Obama Run in '12???
From: DougR
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 01:00 AM

Well, I certainly hope he will!

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Should Obama Run in '12???
From: J-boy
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 12:57 AM

He can run pretty fast. He played basketball and his dad was a Kenyan. I also hear running keeps you in shape. Not that I would know.

Subject: RE: BS: Should Obama Run in '12???
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 12:49 AM

And I wouldn't blame you one bit, Jack.

I think there's a strong case to be made for having only one-term presidents instead of always trying for 2-term presidents. That way their first term would not become utterly compromised by them jockeying for best position to win the next election, and they could just maybe for once act according to principles rather than according to expediency.

As for the article, I think it makes some good points, but I do not think there's any justification for cutting "entitlements" (meaning stuff like social security). Those aren't entitlements at all...they are absolutely necessary and vital forms of insurance and protection that should be given to people in any modern and responsible society.

The one thing that is genuinely an entitlement and that should be cut is the massive expenditure on the military-industrial complex, which clearly feels that it is entitled to bloated funding which outweighs all the military spending of all the other nations in the world put together. THAT's an entitlement. That should be cut. The troops should be brought home. The occupied lands should be put back under their own sovereignty by their own people. The USA should stop thinking it has any right to pre-emptively attack anyone, because no country has such a right.

Subject: RE: BS: Should Obama Run in '12???
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 11:53 PM

If Obama extends the tax cuts for the rich, I don't think I will be able to work for him or donate to him again.

Subject: RE: BS: Should Obama Run in '12???
From: Genie
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 11:39 PM

Obama may well be our best Presidential option in 2012, but I find myself wishing he would have the guts to BE a one-termer if that's what it takes to stand up for the kinds of principles and policies he campaigned on.    I don't think tacking to the so-called "center" is going to get him re-elected in 2012 anyway or help the Democrats stay viable in Congress either.

Subject: RE: BS: Should Obama Run in '12???
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 09:47 PM

Thank you, Jim... It is a good read and food for thought... I mean, I worked for Obama and generally support him... These are some very difficult times and require leadership... What we've seen from the Repubs is not leadership but some downright unAmerican politics that I have not witnessed in my life time... Yes, I have read about times like these but I must say that the civil rights movement wasn't the clusterfuck that we have now...

If Obama were to rob the Repubs of another 2 years of this crap and ***frorce***, yes force them to have to do something other than play games while the country suffers then Obama will go down in history as one of the best ever... He said he'd rather be a good one-term president than a mediocre two termer...

Here's his chance...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Should Obama Run in '12???
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 09:45 PM

I don't think he would have a lot of trouble beating the Glen Beck, Newt Gingrich Republican ticket.

Subject: RE: BS: Should Obama Run in '12???
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 09:39 PM

Here's the article that Bobert referred to in the opening message:

One & Done
By Douglas E. Schoen and Patrick H. Caddell
Sunday, November 14, 2010
The Washington Post

I haven't read it yet, so I will withhold comment until I do.

Subject: RE: BS: Should Obama Run in '12???
From: Amos
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 08:55 PM

I think he should run and win in '12 and again in '16. By that time the dingbats who throw out roadblocks to every decent idea he has put forward will be dead or declined into apathy.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Should Obama Run in '12???
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 08:32 PM

Hey, this guy is a good President, best we've had since Truman (who had popularity problems during his presidency, too). Four years is too short a time to get much accomplished, and yet people expect a President to work miracles in the first thousand days. Take a look at:

http://whatthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com/

I had been expecting to lose health insurance coverage soon for my stepson, who's 21 years old. I just confirmation he's now insured until he's 26. Thank you, Barack Obama!


So, THERE!!!

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Should Obama Run in '12???
From: pdq
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 08:25 PM

"Should Obama Run in '12???

It depends on how fast he can run.

Subject: RE: BS: Should Obama Run in '12???
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 08:15 PM

On the other hand, gnu, he is not Sarah.

Subject: RE: BS: Should Obama Run in '12???
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 08:15 PM

I agree with Ebbie....come on President Obama....please run again!!! Nancy Pelosi has the backbone to run again after the outcome of the last election....why don't you?....


Hubby

Subject: RE: BS: Should Obama Run in '12???
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 08:15 PM

I do, too, Ebbie. And, I also agree with Hubby. People will call him a loser if he doesn't...they wouldn't "get it" if he tried that. Besides it hasn't seemed to work in the past. The only way to change things so campaigning doesn't consume so much is to Fix Congress First, imo.

Subject: RE: BS: Should Obama Run in '12???
From: gnu
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 08:13 PM

Why bother? The populace has voted in favour of the nut cases that subvert the people... better for him to fuck off with the pension and the perks and fuck USA. Cut and run. If they don't wanna try to help themselves... fuck em. He's good. Made in the shade. Why bother to try to do any good? Why try to stand up and fight for anyone who turns on you on the middle of the fight?

Subject: RE: BS: Should Obama Run in '12???
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 08:08 PM

Good lord! Why?

If he wants another term I hope he runs. I wouldn't blame him at all if he does not.

The one thing in which this administration has failed to this point, imo, lies in not better publicising their successes. Instead, some - many?- people think their taxes have gone up, that the bali outs haven't helped, that they are not paying ror themselves, that the health reform act, incomplete as it is, is not an improvement on what we had, that insurance for those in school is not more inclusive, that the drug industry is not being shaken up. Lots of things.

I still think that the presidency should be comprised of a triumvirate

Subject: RE: BS: Should Obama Run in '12???
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 08:08 PM

I think Obama should be a stand up guy and run on his record...anything less is an admit of total failure of his first term...it's as if some dems are saying now....The heat's too high...why don't we step out of the kitchen...just sayin...

Hubby

Subject: RE: BS: Should Obama Run in '12???
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 07:54 PM

He should have withdrawn and let Hillary have it in 2008.

Subject: BS: Should Obama Run in '12???
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 07:48 PM

I've kinda been thinkin' about this myself for a couple months now but in today's Washington Post (Outlook Section) there is a very thought provokin' article entitled "One & Done" by a couple of Democratic operatives, Patrick Caddell (Jimmy Carter's administration) and Douglas Schoen (Bill Clinton's administration)...

They give some very good reason why Obama would go down in history as a great president if he were to announce that he isn't running in '12... This would force the Repubs to participate and if that happens then lots of stuff can be tackled without the same old sandbaggin' that we've seen from the Repubs... It would also force a few of the more obstinate Dems to get with the program...

I kind like their thinking... I mean, the way things have evolved in our country it makes no sense for a president to have two terms because the first one gets consumed with campiagnin' for the 2nd term... Case in point... The 2004 election... Would Bush have gone into Iraq if he wasn't trying to position himself with his base for a 2nd term??? Who knows but, like I said, I would love it if Obama just had the balls to say, "Hey, ya'll... I ain't runnin' so now lets get down to America's business"...

B~