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Dub reggae trad folk ???

GUEST,punkfolkrocker 15 Nov 10 - 11:53 AM
GUEST,Banjiman 15 Nov 10 - 11:58 AM
brezhnev 15 Nov 10 - 12:31 PM
GUEST,grumpy 15 Nov 10 - 12:36 PM
Nobodys bard 15 Nov 10 - 12:41 PM
Les in Chorlton 15 Nov 10 - 12:45 PM
greg stephens 15 Nov 10 - 12:49 PM
GUEST,Banjiman 15 Nov 10 - 12:51 PM
Gibb Sahib 15 Nov 10 - 03:19 PM
GUEST,Davetnova 16 Nov 10 - 03:24 AM
GUEST 16 Nov 10 - 04:17 AM
GUEST,Suibhne Astray 16 Nov 10 - 04:30 AM
GUEST,Banjiman 16 Nov 10 - 04:47 AM
SteveMansfield 16 Nov 10 - 05:43 AM
GUEST,guest - Jim Younger 16 Nov 10 - 06:00 AM
GUEST,Spleen Cringe 16 Nov 10 - 06:58 AM
GUEST,Banjiman 16 Nov 10 - 07:17 AM
GUEST,Muppett 16 Nov 10 - 08:40 AM
GUEST,Suibhne Astray 16 Nov 10 - 04:09 PM
GUEST,eliza c 17 Nov 10 - 11:19 AM
GUEST 17 Nov 10 - 12:01 PM
mikesamwild 17 Nov 10 - 12:16 PM
mayomick 17 Nov 10 - 12:52 PM
GUEST,Patsy 18 Nov 10 - 03:32 AM
Les in Chorlton 18 Nov 10 - 11:09 AM
Gozz 18 Nov 10 - 12:22 PM
Les in Chorlton 18 Nov 10 - 12:27 PM
Gozz 18 Nov 10 - 12:47 PM
Gozz 18 Nov 10 - 12:59 PM
Les in Chorlton 18 Nov 10 - 01:04 PM
Gozz 18 Nov 10 - 01:17 PM
Les in Chorlton 19 Nov 10 - 04:10 AM
GUEST,Banjiman 19 Nov 10 - 04:16 AM
GUEST,charley o'neill 19 Nov 10 - 05:59 PM
mikesamwild 20 Nov 10 - 05:47 AM
Ian Burdon 20 Nov 10 - 03:09 PM
GUEST,Sam 29 Nov 10 - 10:44 AM
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Subject: Dub reggae trad folk ???
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 11:53 AM

please would appreciate any hints/links to listen to good [any ???]
dub reggae versions of 'trad' uk folk songs..

..well there was Edward The Second and The Red Hot Polkas
and then also.. ermm.. umm...????


cheers.


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Subject: RE: Dub reggae trad folk ???
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 11:58 AM

..... I think that's pretty much it.

But I would also be interested in any other Reggae/ Folk hybrids anyone can think of.

I suppose some bits of Afrocelts gets close to a reggae beat, maybe.


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Subject: RE: Dub reggae trad folk ???
From: brezhnev
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 12:31 PM

not reggae, but jungle reworking of peat bog soldiers (junglist soldiers) here


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Subject: RE: Dub reggae trad folk ???
From: GUEST,grumpy
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 12:36 PM

Not UK, but Sharon Shannon's 'Out the Gap' was co-produced by Dennis Bovell.


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Subject: RE: Dub reggae trad folk ???
From: Nobodys bard
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 12:41 PM

No can't really think of any either. However I've often thought that the two genres do have a lot in common. Particularly lovers rock & trad English folk songs - great melodies & fine singing etc ... however, on the cpl occasions that it's been tried (to reggae-fy English folk) it always seems to come off as a bit twee somehow. Jah Wobble (not exactly reggae I know) did an album called English Roots Music, which as I recall was not bad but certainly no classic. Does have a dub version (& non-dub vrsn) of Blacksmith on it. And you couldn't really dub up many existing folk recordings as there's usually not many instruments being used & certainly not too much bass & drums ... though I guess it might be fun to try the Morris On recordings.


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Subject: RE: Dub reggae trad folk ???
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 12:45 PM

Paddyrasta

Live Paddyrasta

L in C#


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Subject: RE: Dub reggae trad folk ???
From: greg stephens
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 12:49 PM

Welfare State International were doing this sort of thing in the late 70's/early 80's, not sure if much recording was done. Mixing English tunes on top of Jamaican dub and West African Hi-Life etc.


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Subject: RE: Dub reggae trad folk ???
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 12:51 PM

I must look out the Jah Wobble album you mention, I have several of his albums "Waiting for God" etc)and at one time thought he was the Bees Knees but I haven't heard "English Roots Music".

Thanks for that.

I always think my better half's version of
"Cruel Mother (first track on player)"" would work brilliantly dubbed up, anyone fancy adding some fat (phat?) bass lines, more percussion and effects to this?


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Subject: RE: Dub reggae trad folk ???
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 03:19 PM

While we're at it, does anyone know where I can get a chocolate cake pizza? How about a dirt shower?

Just kidding. But as you can tell, IMO the two genres can't be mixed without denying each what they are. The goals and aesthetics are contrary. But I've certainly nothing against others seeking what they like. Go for it!

Lee Perry did a project once called Peeni Wali (candlefly) that used a lot of Irish-y instrumental tunes.

The late Judge Dread was fun when he did some English songs to his 70s style skinhead reggae beat (backed by the Cimmarons).

The Trojans w/ Gaz Mayall did their blend of Jamaican rhythms with songs of UK/Ireland. They release a dub version album, and Gaz played melodica (which always evokes dub due to Augustus Pablo).

Hmm...there is a good reggae version of Simon and Garfunkle's "Richard Cory" sung by Ken Boothe :)

There's a riddim based on "Three Blind Mice"!

Sorry, that's all I got.

Wait -- this is hilarious. I once composed several "pieces" that were all a combo of something Jamaican and Irish/UK. The ones I got recorded in the studio were:

Dub Dubh (a jig, with lyrics)
Dublin Dub (a reel)

Also written (but never realized) was :
Scottish Country Dancehall (ragga w/ scottish dancing music)
Chantey Men-to (um, mento and chanteying!!)
Scottish Ska (w/ bagpipes)

But these are lost to oblivion!


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Subject: RE: Dub reggae trad folk ???
From: GUEST,Davetnova
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 03:24 AM

It may be worth mentioning that reggae has in it's own folk roots in Mento music, google the Jolly Boys..


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Subject: RE: Dub reggae trad folk ???
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 04:17 AM

The band "Wheeler Street" do a reggae version of Raggle Taggle Gypsies on their album RooDumDaa. Live the also do a reggae version of the Mason's Apron (which they play after the song "Susanne Beware of the Devil". Might be worth checking out and keeping an eye on. They're a great live band. :)


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Subject: RE: Dub reggae trad folk ???
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 04:30 AM

The Suns of Arqua had (have?) lots of folk & ethno influences in their music (Acid Tablas!) as did African Head Charge, who used all manner of loops and samples from field recordings. Check this:

African Head Charge : Off the Beaten Track


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Subject: RE: Dub reggae trad folk ???
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 04:47 AM

Suibhne.

African Head Charge...... there's a blast from the past, I have a couple of their albums gracing my CD shelf (along with lots of other from the On-U-Sound "family").

I agree they have lots of "trad" elements in their music, but it's not British Trad (whatever that is!) which is what I think the OP was asking about.

There's an album by Little Axe, AKA Skip McDonald (also associated with On-U-Sound) which is blues and reggae based which is interesting. Can't remember the name of it just now but I can wander downstairs and look if anyone is interested.


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Subject: RE: Dub reggae trad folk ???
From: SteveMansfield
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 05:43 AM

Jumpleads did some of this in the early 80s.

I've got at the back of my mind that there was a CD of Capercaillie remixes that had some dub elements on it.


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Subject: RE: Dub reggae trad folk ???
From: GUEST,guest - Jim Younger
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 06:00 AM

Going back a bit in time and style, The Pioneers had a song - Longshot Kick the Bucket - firmly in the grand tradition of horse race songs. No fusion - just a perennial subject, and done to a turn. Every bit as good as Skewball!


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Subject: RE: Dub reggae trad folk ???
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 06:58 AM

Thanks for the reminder about African Hedgehog (to give them their alternative title) Suibhne. And only the other night I heard the wonderful Bim Sherman on the radio for the first time since Peelie days*

Banji - I remember going to see an On-U Sounds night with Tackhead, featuring Skip McDonald and various members of the Sugarhill Gang, who did some sort of blues/funk/rock concoction. Bit to close to heavy metal at times for my tastes, but a great concept.

What I'd be interested to hear is an album of classic roots reggae songs (Culture, Mighty Diamonds, Israel Vibration, Congos etc) covered by traditional UK singers and musicians in their own style. Strip them of all reggae content (Sweeping generalisation time - most non-reggae musicians make a total bollocks of reggae rhythms) and recast them as folk songs. I reckon that would be lovely. Hmmm...


*PS has anyone listened to Tom Ravenscroft's show on R6 on Friday nights? He's s proper chip off the old block in terms of breadth of musical taste as wel as understated delivery, bless 'im...


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Subject: RE: Dub reggae trad folk ???
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 07:17 AM

I'll try Ticklish Ghetto (off Culture's "Trod On" album and one of my very favourite "Roots" tracks) on the 5 string then shall I? That should ruin it! I think you're right though, there are some reggae songs that would work brilliantly as folky songs.

Going back to the original theme. I've got another On-U sound album called "Barmy Army" which is football terrace chants and songs (recorded "live" at football grounds) given the dub treatment. I have heard it said that football chants are the only remaining Traditional songs....... maybe this would meet the OPs spec? (Unfortunately it's not as good as it could have been though).

Tackhead were never my favourite On-U incarnation...... much preferred Dub Syndicate, the afore mentioned African Headcharge and Gary Clail did a great album with them. Can anyone remember the name of the mad Scotsman who lived in a horse box and insisted on carrying a long sword (and wearing a kilt) wherever he went? He did at least one album with On-U and I think had a hit(ish) single.


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Subject: RE: Dub reggae trad folk ???
From: GUEST,Muppett
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 08:40 AM

I have a number of reggae folk songs that I perform (unaccompanied)this includes the reggae wild rover (along with dance) and in me liverpool town (jah, do they count???????????????


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Subject: RE: Dub reggae trad folk ???
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 04:09 PM

Been listening to African Head Charge today - Songs of Praise is still a classic, though I like the experimental bleakness of the early stuff too, most of which I still have on vinyl - Environmental Studies is a blast. I remain a huge fan of Augustus Pablo - I regard King Tubby Meets Rockers Uptown as one of the greatest albums of all time.

Getting back to what Banjiman said about it not being British Trad. - I grew up in multi-ethnic / multi-cultural UK so I'd say West Indian traditions are as British as anything else - long absorbed & entirely naturalised - with genuine roots to boot. So British Trad? Yes - very much so. Folk? Nah - not according to Mudcatland anyway, where music only becomes folk when its part of a self-conscious revival of something that never was.


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Subject: RE: Dub reggae trad folk ???
From: GUEST,eliza c
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 11:19 AM

Barn Stradling from Edward II and the Red Hot Polkas was my bass player for a long time, also in the Chipolata 5 which messed around with traditional tunes and dub effects on their self-released album "Skinless". Tristan Glover, their box player, was in a band called Bits of Kids in the eighties which did the same-there was even a bit of white-boy toasting which was fun when you were fifteen! There are a few reggae/dub influences thanks to Barn on my earlier recordings..."Billy Boy" being the best example.
Away from my own trumpet, Adrian Sherwood produced Ian King's album this year "Panic Grass and Fever Few" which has been quite well received. The production is excellent, and some of it works brilliantly. I've always thought that the laid-back nature of southern English music worked well with dub in particular.
xe


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Subject: RE: Dub reggae trad folk ???
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 12:01 PM

I did a 'Ned Ludd Sound System' Night at a local social centre (the 1-in-12 in Bradford) the other night, which was supposed to be a blend of dub & folk. On the set list were 'Billy Boy' by Eliza Carthy (slightly freaky that your comment popped up as I was looking this up!), also plenty of Edward II stuff, couple off the Ian King album, summat from the Afro-Celts and the afore-mentioned Jah Wobble album. Sinead O'Connor's done some stuff that fuses Irish folk with beats - 'I am Stretched on Your Grave' and there's some Adrian Sherwood produced tracks on The Healing Room. Some of the (hate the term and it can be a cover for all sorts of whimsical nonsense) 'folktronica' stuff can be interetsing, quite like some of Tunng's stuff. Best bit (although I'd had a couple of pints by this time so it didn't mix as seamlessly as it did at home when I was sober) was fusing 'the Lyke Wake Dirge' with 'Duppy' by Transglobal Underground. Joe Strummer & the Mescaleroes version of the Minstrel Boy went down well (and its 15 mins long so I could have a pee and a smoke whilst it was on). Eeeh I could go on for ages about this (thanks for all the other suggestions above as well).


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Subject: RE: Dub reggae trad folk ???
From: mikesamwild
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 12:16 PM

Local Sheffield Nightingale, Jim McDonald sings 'No Rum and No Pies' by Lem Sessay ( I think it is )

When we were in Co Mayo, Ireland we told them it was by Bob O'Malley


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Subject: RE: Dub reggae trad folk ???
From: mayomick
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 12:52 PM

I remember they used to play a version of My Bonny Lies Over the Ocean in reggae in a Jamaican run pub in Dalston years ago. I never knew who it was by but it was a good laugh.

Last night as me sat in my hotel room
sitting there drinking champaign
The waiter him walk into my room
and him stole my baby away

Oh bring back ,oh bring back, oh bring back my baby to me
bring back Oh bring back Oh bring back my baby to me.

Next morning me was awake early ,
the waiter was waiting for me
Him told me my breakfast was ready
And him bring back my baby to me

o bring back etc

There was a reggae version of Fields of Athenry - I think it was by UB40


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Subject: RE: Dub reggae trad folk ???
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 18 Nov 10 - 03:32 AM

Whether this is classed as Dub reggae trad folk but I used to enjoy watching Babyhead whenever they were playing in Bristol a while back. I would be interested to know where they are now and if there are any local gigs in or near Bristol in the foreseeable future.


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Subject: RE: Dub reggae trad folk ???
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 18 Nov 10 - 11:09 AM

I just have to repeat:

Paddyrasta

L in C#


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Subject: RE: Dub reggae trad folk ???
From: Gozz
Date: 18 Nov 10 - 12:22 PM

Our morris team (Grimspound Border)have a great band who were once messing around with then "Upton upon Severn Stick Dance" tune and it has sort of stuck. So now we have: -

"A dance from a different world (in a parallel universe) which sits four elephants who stand on the back of a giant turtle. On this planet morris dancing was collected by a Robert Marleigh on the island of Didyamaca." The dance is called "The Upton on Kingston Spliff Dance".

The tune works really well, but it means the dance has to be quite slow and we have to "hang loose"!

Gozz


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Subject: RE: Dub reggae trad folk ???
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 18 Nov 10 - 12:27 PM

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm are we in danger of slipping into a bit of mockery? All appologies if not, but it is not unknown

L in C#


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Subject: RE: Dub reggae trad folk ???
From: Gozz
Date: 18 Nov 10 - 12:47 PM

No Les
We just love to challenge perceptions of "the tradition" and allow things to evolve. Yes, some of our story about how we got the dance is rubbish, but it is entertaining rubbish! When we do the dance it is danced with a real love of the music and the band enjoy playing it that way.

All I am saying is, try the tune in a reggae style - it works well.

Gozz


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Subject: RE: Dub reggae trad folk ???
From: Gozz
Date: 18 Nov 10 - 12:59 PM

Whilst on the subject of talent in Devon, there is a band in this area called the O'Marleys who play a lot of Irish music with a reggae beat.

See here

(I hope that link worked)

Gozz


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Subject: RE: Dub reggae trad folk ???
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 18 Nov 10 - 01:04 PM

I'm all for it Gozz. I think loads of English music could travel anywhere and be anything so long as it is done with some dignity and a respect for other kinds of music that it might become involved in.

"collected by a Robert Marleigh on the island of Didyamaca." The dance is called "The Upton on Kingston Spliff Dance"."

Sounds like fun - but it just makes me twitch a bit - that's all

L in C#


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Subject: RE: Dub reggae trad folk ???
From: Gozz
Date: 18 Nov 10 - 01:17 PM

I understand where you are coming from Les, it is a bit on the edge, but that is an attempt to bring a bit of Sir Terry Pratchett's style into our performance.

You are right that loads of English music can travel easily though - must go and try a dub beat with a few other tunes.

Gozz


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Subject: RE: Dub reggae trad folk ???
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 19 Nov 10 - 04:10 AM

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm The Geat Sir Terry - an excellent source of inspiration for sure

L in C#


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Subject: RE: Dub reggae trad folk ???
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 19 Nov 10 - 04:16 AM

" The dance is called "The Upton on Kingston Spliff Dance"."


Do you use giant Rizlas instead of hankies....... or hollowed out sticks?

All sounds like a lot of fun of fun to me anyway.


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Subject: RE: Dub reggae trad folk ???
From: GUEST,charley o'neill
Date: 19 Nov 10 - 05:59 PM

I believe Jack the lad were doing this sort of thing back in the 70's? First couple of edward the 2nd albums- superb, they became a different band after that,good ,but I prefer the early mostly instrumental stuff


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Subject: RE: Dub reggae trad folk ???
From: mikesamwild
Date: 20 Nov 10 - 05:47 AM

Come on chaps 'Let's get together and feel alright'


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Subject: RE: Dub reggae trad folk ???
From: Ian Burdon
Date: 20 Nov 10 - 03:09 PM

I'd echo Eliza C's name check for Ian King's Panic Grass and Fever Few which you'll find on Spotify.


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Subject: RE: Dub reggae trad folk ???
From: GUEST,Sam
Date: 29 Nov 10 - 10:44 AM

Thought I'd found the name on this thread but obviously not checking back - Bagas Degol - Cornish/Breton bagpipe dub - its fantastic (mostly).
Checked out Paddyrasta on recommendation here - nice one LinC#.

Seize the Day have some tracks very much reggae flavoured.

I've never managed to get a copy but remember hearing some Adrian Sherwood produced Twinkle Brothers (roots reggae band from JA) meets the Trebunia family (Polish folk band).

And thanks for reminding me of your unique performances Muppet!


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