BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!

Subject: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: Brian May
Date: 05 Dec 10 - 06:59 AM

How dare Wikileaks act like this:

The stones at the bottom of the compost heap have been lifted and we are now subjected to views of all that wriggling, invertebrate life called diplomacy and politics.

Most of us KNEW, but the evidence was previously anecdotal - this gives names, dates, places and exposes the double-dealing involved and how 'nice' the USA is being to its allies.

Just look at the Fighter purchase to Brazil document . . .

Why the UK believes it has any kind of special relationship with the US, I don't know. Unless that means lay on your back with your legs in the air, when we say, and we'll shove the baseball bat up as hard as we can - and you'll smile sweetly and say 'thanks for the attention'.

Subject: RE: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 05 Dec 10 - 07:16 AM

Another thread on this isn't necessary. It's already being done to death on the existing thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: akenaton
Date: 05 Dec 10 - 07:21 AM

But not quite as eloquently as Mr May.

Subject: RE: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: Brian May
Date: 05 Dec 10 - 07:38 AM

I was aware of the other thread which is why I started this one.

Thank you Akenaton - did you note my apology to you on another thread?

Subject: RE: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: akenaton
Date: 05 Dec 10 - 10:45 AM

No need for an apology Brian.....I'm sure I'll manage a quick nip at your ankles, when you least expect it   :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: skarpi
Date: 05 Dec 10 - 10:46 AM

I love them in Wikileaks , now the world can see what kind
things nations are doing , I can´t wait for the Bank info ...must
good for people to see the corruption in that system ....

Subject: RE: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: akenaton
Date: 05 Dec 10 - 10:55 AM

I think they will shut the site down before then Skarpi.....but I hope you are right.

Subject: RE: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: Mrrzy
Date: 05 Dec 10 - 12:00 PM

I have to admit liking wikileaks but my kinfolk in State and Justice are not hoppy, not hoppy at all...

Subject: RE: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: Amos
Date: 05 Dec 10 - 01:10 PM

The more events like this occur, the more people will be inclined to do only what they would be comfortable having their mother watch them do; not a bad impulse, at least as a corrective influence.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: gnu
Date: 05 Dec 10 - 02:24 PM

"I was aware of the other thread which is why I started this one."

Ahhhh... nevermind.

Subject: RE: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Dec 10 - 02:38 PM

Just something more to fill up media coverage. Diplomacy always was the surficial pap covering over what was really thought and what was intended. Wikileaks obtained the U. S. material, but British, French, Chinese, etc. would be similar.
Ho hum.

Subject: RE: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: akenaton
Date: 05 Dec 10 - 03:12 PM

I think, as Skarpi said, the financial stuff will be worth reading....if they dont kill Mr Assange first.

Subject: RE: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 05 Dec 10 - 07:24 PM

About the only reasonable point made by the Political wailers exposed is that certain covert operatives may be placed in danger.

How hypocritical! When certain of the Political Animals themselves deliberately exposed such an operative for pure Political Game Playing and personal political benefit!

Do as I say, not as I do!

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 06 Dec 10 - 07:07 AM

Don't know about anyone else but a rumour came up regarding a member of the Royal family ages ago and I thought that was all done and dusted. If it is the same thing then Wiki is way behind and I am yawning with boredom.

Subject: RE: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: Stringsinger
Date: 06 Dec 10 - 12:42 PM

I don't think there can be enough threads on this issue.

Go Wikileaks!

Subject: RE: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: Brian May
Date: 06 Dec 10 - 02:34 PM

"I was aware of the other thread which is why I started this one."

Ahhhh... nevermind.


GOOD EH??

You don't HAVE to read it - it's voluntary ;o)

Subject: RE: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: Big Phil
Date: 06 Dec 10 - 03:16 PM

Publish and be damned.

Phil*

Subject: RE: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: gnu
Date: 06 Dec 10 - 03:37 PM

Brian... the point is that the rule of thumb at The Mudcat Café is to centralize discussion, not to start multiple threads on the same topic. The rule is a rule because it's a good rule. The statement I quoted makes no sense at all. Equally so for your "reply."

Subject: RE: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: mandotim
Date: 06 Dec 10 - 03:39 PM

The attack on Julian Assange continues; the Swiss Post Office Bank has frozen his assets, and Amazon have refused to release a huge amout of money owed via Paypal. Both of these are for flimsy reasons. His lawyer says he is preparing to meet UK police, which will almost certainly result in him being extradited to Sweden and then to the USA. Sarah Palin is calling for him to be treated the same as Taliban leaders, i.e. killed without trial. I thought the US constitution enshrined the right to free speech?

Subject: RE: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Dec 10 - 04:42 PM

That money would make a good contribution to charity.

Subject: RE: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: andrew e
Date: 06 Dec 10 - 05:14 PM

Another take on it.

http://poorrichards-blog.blogspot.com/2010/12/gordon-duff-why-wikileaks-doesnt-add-up.html

Subject: RE: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: akenaton
Date: 06 Dec 10 - 05:52 PM

Just seen Assange's lawyer wipe the floor with the opposition from the US govt on Newsnight   

He likened the current leaks to the "Pentagon Papers" case.
They had no answer!

Subject: RE: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: Mrrzy
Date: 07 Dec 10 - 11:11 AM

They've caught him, though!

Subject: RE: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 07 Dec 10 - 11:23 AM

They didn't catch him ... He turned himself in.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: Brian May
Date: 07 Dec 10 - 01:40 PM

Gnu:

Brian... the point is that the rule of thumb at The Mudcat Café is to centralize discussion, not to start multiple threads on the same topic. The rule is a rule because it's a good rule. The statement I quoted makes no sense at all. Equally so for your "reply."

I shall stand myself in the corner and have a stern talk to me.

Then I shall probably totally ignore it as it really won't stop the sun coming up in the morning.

Cheer up, it might never happen (unless it just did)

Subject: RE: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Dec 10 - 03:26 PM

Unlike the child rapist movie producer, Leakypee will be extradited to face trial.
His trove of stolen paper will soon be forgotten.

Subject: RE: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: SINSULL
Date: 07 Dec 10 - 03:33 PM

Scarier still:
US to federal workers: If you read WikiLeaks, you're breaking the law
From the Christian Science Monitor.
So... while we rail at China about opening up the internet, here at home it is a crime to read any of these links published online or mentioned in a newspaper article. In addition, universities are being warned to tell students interested in a career with the state dept NOT to read any of this stuff on line - someone is watching.
Remind me - what planet am I living on?

Subject: RE: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 07 Dec 10 - 05:18 PM

It cannot be denied that he is being "unfairly" treated. It is just too convenient a charge- the Americans appear to continue with their arrogant assumption that the rest of the world is as stupid as they are if they expect this to go down this easily. This man deserves our protection and not to grant him bail with the support that has been offered is a plain joke.


Julian Assange has created a system where courageous people can divulge information in a safe manner. By doing this, he has allowed Journalism, in particular political journalism, to do what its meant to. Our western derivative of democracy denotes that a free press is not only a legal entity, but is also a valid and ethical checking mechanism on the power held within executive branches of government. These leaks give us access to decisions that, in effect, we are responsible for - as our votes put these governments in place.

As representatives of the society they serve, western politicians should welcome such leaks, as they provide us, the electorate, with a means of seeing what we actually vote for. An elected government is accountable to each and every one of its citizens - the work of Wikileaks has empowered the voter in the pursuit of such accountability. If you think this is theoretical bull, then think again - our whole system hinges on accountability, Wikileaks underscores it.

Seems to me Uncle Sam is once again exerting his influence in our Government and as always, getting everything he wants. When is this country going to stand up for itself ?

If it is not Brussles interfearing and trying to rule us, is is the clowns from the Colony's telling us how to run our country !

Subject: RE: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 07 Dec 10 - 05:49 PM

someone is watching

I want a programme that sends the following back to whoever is watching what I read on line

             
            _
           / \
          |\_/|
          |---|
          |   |
          |   |
        _ |=-=| _
    _  / \|   |/ \
   / \|   |   |   ||\
  |   |   |   |   | \>
  |   |   |   |   |   \
  | -   -   -   - |)   )
  |                   /
   \                 /
    \               /
     \             /
      \           /
       |         |
 




	

Subject: RE: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: Naemanson
Date: 07 Dec 10 - 05:59 PM

Sins: Remind me - what planet am I living on?

Same one that brought you all the idiocy you've seen in the past.

USA, the country that brought you VietNam and followed that up with Afghanistan, now brings you spurious claims of criminal activity to try to shut up another clear view of how governments work.

It's easier to stop up the leaks than to clean up your systems.

Subject: RE: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 05:28 AM

Nevermind there is a lovely wedding coming up soon and we can forget all about it, hey!?

Subject: RE: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 05:38 AM

Assange: Australian of the year?

The best article yet written on this subject - there are a lot Aussie specific local things mentioned - ask if you want clarification.

~~~
Assange: Australian of the year?

Bob Ellis

How would Mick Young have handled the Julian Assange affair? Famous for defusing difficult subjects with a mild, commonsense one-liner, Mick would have said, "Well, we'll have to arrest Laurie Oakes too. And David Marr. And Bob Woodward".

Hard to find the argument against this. Marr told how his prime minister called the Chinese 'rat-fuckers', Assange let it be known how he proposed to bomb them for being difficult. Oakes once published a budget speech before it was given, thus imperilling for a while our economy. Woodward pretty much hobbled the US presidency by showing its burglaries, bad language, and hate campaigns.

And Assange has done similar things, albeit a thousandfold, and prominent Americans including presidential candidates and vice-presidential candidates think he should be killed for it. In this they go against the First Amendment - Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances - thoughan opposite mode of thought has been Fox Newspeak lately: no-one but Hannity, Beck and O'Reilly, it yells, can say anything at all. They should be waterboarded if they do.

Assange is shaping up as Australia's Dreyfus and the Prime Minister by throwing him to America's assassination-mongers has lost, oh, half a million Labor voters to the Greens overnight, the way she does. She said on September 7 we should 'let the sun shine in'; but when Assange did she put on the cloak of the Princess of Darkness and called his deeds 'illegal'.

Should Julian Assange hang, or fry, or be injected with poison for telling the truth? Should his fellow WikiLeaks hackers die beside him? Should he do four years for it? Should he do two weeks? All our better angels briskly murmur 'no'. Let him who would say 'yes' not hold his peace.

Yet it's likely he'll be killed soon, and hung like a stinking mouldy albatross called 'Julian' round Julia's neck, and a film as interesting as The Social Network made about him, with David Wenham playing Assange, Geoffrey Robertson playing himself, Amanda Bishop as Julia Gillard kicking the furniture and Brian Dawe as Robert McClelland wincing.

Do the people have a right to know? Seems not. Should David Marr hang too? Looks like it. (Hullo David)

I wrote last week of Australians' dissimilarity to Americans. Not even Andrew Bolt would call for Assange's assassination. Not even Piers Akerman, fond of scoops himself, would recommend he get five years. Not even Alan Jones would call him (or Marr) a traitor. If he did he'd have to target Andrew Wilkie, MP, as well: the indiscreet officer who rightly said there were no WMD and was called by John Howard 'emotionally unstable'.

No, Australians differ from Americans in many, many ways. We do not carry handguns. We do not leave half-witted young men on Death Row for 20 years. We do not have a Death Row. We do not have the word 'God' on our coins. We do not send in pilotless aircraft to blow up families whose religion we do not like. We are better than that. The most famous Australians - Greer, Hughes, James, Humphries, White, Murray, Pilger, Carey, Robertson, Blanchett, Crowe - are all truth-revealers, and this I think is no accident. They are Australians all. And we Australians like to tell it how it is. Rupert's father Keith revealed Gallipoli. Hawke, Keating, Beazley and Evans told all in Labor In Power. Sir Ron Wilson, Spitfire pilot, unveiled the Stolen Children. And so on.

And Julian Assange is one of us, as worthy at least of our protection as Chapelle Corby. He has broken no law and has greatly enlarged the amusement of nations. He has done more solemnly what Stewart and Colbert do every night. He is a kind of Chaser and some of us love him for it. And nearly all the Left revere him and would like to see him Australian of the Year. He has changed the world for the better. Who can deny it?

But has he endangered lives? Well, maybe. Let's wait a bit and see. If 10,000 killings in the next year can be plausibly blamed on him, he may well have behaved irresponsibly. But a million wartime deaths can with equal force be blamed on Tony Blair, and three million ruptured Iraqi lives, and he has not yet been hanged or even waterboarded for it.

It is time our Prime Minister sat in on some ethics classes in a school in New South Wales. She would learn there that revealing wrong is not a crime, or a sin. She would learn that doing wrong is. And that protecting wrongdoers is a crime - as in sheltering serial killers on the run, or shielding priestly pederasts from investigation. She would learn it is not 'illegal', as she quaintly puts it, to report a planned act of illegal war, as Assange did Rudd's and Wilkie did Howard's, but a proper thing to do. Even a patriotic thing to do. As was the Stolen Children Report, and the Voyager Enquiry, and the several James Hardie asbestos-mesothelioma court cases. And the many, many trials of Lindy Chamberlain. And Breaker Morant.

Wrongdoing should be exposed, as a rule. It should not be kept secret. And we should let the sun shine in, as the Prime Minister lately recommended, biting her tongue.

It is impossible anyway in the social network age to keep it out. Not only information, but response to that information, is instantaneous now. And to say it takes weeks to discover if an act is illegal is nonsense; you can look it up. You can text another Julian, Burnside, and ask him.

Once again an Australian citizen, like Hicks, is being neurotically targeted for baseless punishment by crazed Americans, who are into furious revenge these days, even murderous revenge, and once again an Australian Prime Minister is cravenly doing nothing to stop it. If Assange has done international wrong, let him stand trial in The Hague. If he has not, let him come home to Parkville, drink coffee with Barry Jones, and yarn about the past, as Australians do.

Is there a third alternative? I don't think so.

Or perhaps you, ho ho, disagree.

Bob Ellis's last two books on Australian politics, One Hundred Days of Summer and Suddenly, Last Winter, are in bookshops now.

Subject: RE: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 05:50 AM

Mark Stevens, although a little odd, has paid his dues as a lawyer and is rather good. I never liked having him against me.

I was under the impression that extradition from Sweden to the USA was rather less likely than from the UK to the USA under the wholly outrageously biassed UK/US extradition treaty, so it might have been smart to go to Sweden before the US request.

The most puzzling thing at the moment to me is:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."


Should this now have added to it "save in respect of foreigners whose rights may be restricted upon any whim, and save insofar as the industrial-military-complex requires".



The barring of money due to Assange and the blocking of means to give money to him is frankly sinister, and unpardonable in the light of the way the USA happily funneled money to Irish terrorists.

Subject: RE: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 05:55 AM

The Great Beyond: US declares Wikileaks off-limits to government researchers

Subject: RE: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 06:04 AM

Re my previous

QUOTE
...says that doesn't make sense when much of the information is already freely available from newspapers such as The New York Times and The Guardian.

Aftergood says that the classified cables on wikileaks are not primarily a scientific resource, but they do contain social and geographical data that is of interest to some researchers, he says. Those most likely to be affected by the bans are foreign policy researchers and analysts.
UNQUOTE

And since we know just how poorly informed the USA is about foreign affairs anyway, this stupidity will help in what way?

The Yanks in their secret cables apparently did even KNOW that the Aussie company allegedly 'making antivenin critical to US security' hasn't DONE SO for a decade.... :-)

So when the US nutters in charge hunker down in their bunkers after pushing The Big Red Button, will they realize that the lowest paid workers who were supposed to make their underground toilets work .... I'll let your imaginations work for a while ....

Subject: RE: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 06:14 AM

Our wonderful two face Opposition has not only condemned the leaks, but attacked the Government because the leaks are factual and prove how bad the government is ...

As commentators are saying here in Oz, it's just schoolyard stuff, sounds like a transcript of 2 Aussies talking at the pub ... damaging toda perhaps, gone tomorrow - control freak, well they're everywhere...

Subject: RE: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 06:39 AM

"Mark Stevens, although a little odd, has paid his dues as a lawyer and is rather good. I never liked having him against me. "

If you had Mark Stevens against you it certainly wasn't in a court room !

lmfao

Subject: RE: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 09:27 AM

Stephens, Mark         Partner (Stephens Finer Innocent)
T: [phone]
E: [e-mail]

Subject: RE: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: Stringsinger
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 12:34 PM

The actual free press is always outrageous because it dares to question the authority and views of the ruling class....(the oligarchs who now run the U.S. government). This is historically true and we see the pattern working again today.
The state department supports dictators throughout the world and claims that their allies are legitimate. At the same time they denigrate and demonize a champion of true democracy.

I will say in defense of real democracy and Jefferson's admonitions about the importance of a free press that is more important than governments that "I Am Wikileaks".

Subject: RE: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: Brian May
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 01:22 PM

Best of luck to them.

I don't support him IF, repeat IF he's guilty of crimes against the person (their appearance at this time seems a little bit coincidental).

However, I support his stance against the low life, paranoid invertebrates who are only in power because they wish to 'serve the people'.

I hope they squirm. 'In God We Trust', but for the rest there's always coercion.

Shameful in the self-professed 'Land of the Free'. No wonder they want it hushed up and are leaning on their own people not to inquire.

Reminiscent of the Thatcher government at the time Spy Catcher was published by Peter Wright.

Subject: RE: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 01:40 PM

Rendition team needed.

Subject: RE: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 02:59 PM

To render the oppressors out of the USA?

You don't need a rendition team to retrieve Assange from the UK - B.Liar signed us into poodle status in the treaty.

But I note your preference for the illegal way to operate and your denial of the presumption of innocence.

Subject: RE: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: Stu
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 03:16 PM

At least it's shown us all the hypocrites who pledge to uphold the first amendment then start railing against a journalist publishing leaked information. This is a sorry display of the elite who like to keep their little secrets from those who bankroll them trying to cling on to their old ways of doing things when the world is changing.

Subject: RE: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: bobad
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 03:18 PM

Irony

On the same day that British authorities arrested WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange on an Interpol warrant, the US State Department announced it would be hosting the United Nation's "World Press Freedom Day" next year.

Subject: RE: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: Stu
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 03:48 PM

This is worth a read:

Reuters article on the charges levelled against Assange by the Swedish authorities

If this is truly the case then I suspect the coppers will be out trying to nick a sizeable proportion of the UK's youth population on a Friday night around turfing out time.

The Swedes of course, were quite happy to allow the CIA to use it's airports for the stopovers of rendition flights. Nice.

Subject: RE: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 05:53 PM

Kevin Rudd has finally been quoted by the media as saying that it was only the USA itself to blame for the leak. He laughed off the comments about himself as water off a ducks back. He says he was proud of the comments that revealed that he was not considered a stupid idiot who do anything the Yanks told him to.

A top Aussie Labor party MP Mark Arbib is cited by the US as a major source of info - funny but the stuff he was feeding could be read in any newspaper - shows just how bloated and incompetent the USA system is.

Mastercard has backed off shutting down WL donations due to backlash against itself! Yea for the little man!

Subject: RE: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: mandotim
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 07:01 PM

'Freedom of speech...priceless. For everything else, there's Mastercard...'

Subject: RE: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 02:40 AM

LOL at Mandotim... Love it and

Happy that Visa/Mastercard and Paypal have been suffering mass interruptions in service, not that it hurts their bottom line. It just pisses off the customers using them.

But hey it is a start at striking at the heart of corporate/capitalist complex.

Love that there are groups supporting internet democracy by exercising some internet anarchy.

Subject: RE: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: mandotim
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 03:17 AM

We're seeing the dog days of capitalism here; the more times this sort of 'leak' happens, the more people will realise the power they actually hold. Over the last 40 years or so the democratic and judicial processes have been gradually eroded, leaving power in the hands of some politicians and a lot of large corporations. The internet changes all that; what we have is the democratisation of information; in other words, it's really hard to keep things secret any more. Why do you think there is a concerted move to restrict the internet by governments and corporations alike? Before anybody asks, yes, the US government pays lip service to openness of information; but only when it doesn't apply to them. They're going to try to extradite Assange, despite the fact that they don't currently have a law under which to prosecute him. Watch the State Department comments; no-one has specified the statute under which a trial might take place. Perhaps they just want to waterboard him and then kill him? Sarah Palin seems to think this would be a good idea.

Subject: RE: BS: Outrageous Wikileaks!!
From: andrew e
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 04:42 AM

Take a look at this website for some interesting articles.

More things each day.


http://whatreallyhappened.com/