BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story

Subject: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: frogprince
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 12:15 PM

Adam And Eve, The Real Story

As I was thinking about Young Earth Creationism, I got to thinking about Adam and Eve,
and Original Sin. In doing so, I suddenly realized, for the first time, the actual implications of the
Biblical narrative.

Soon after creating the ancestral pair, God remembered some of the implications of what He had
done, which He actually would have known throughout eternity past. He realized that, if He didn't
take action soon, they would become hopelessly accustomed to the comfort and freedom of
going about without a stitch of clothing on.

Obviously, this simply wouldn't do. God realized that, before long, they would observe numerous
instances of furry creatures doing all the things that furry creatures do. It would be inevitable that,
before long, they would get curious as to how it would feel to try some of those things themselves.
The inevitable result would be children. At that point, the situation would immediately become
untenable.

Children who are exposed to the sight of genitals suffer hopeless psychological damage, often
to such an extent that they must be destroyed for the safety of others. If our Puritan forebears
recognized this as clearly as they obviously did, how much more deeply must it have
troubled the mind of God himself. In fact, the very survival of mankind was at stake; any
decent man, to say nothing of one with a mind totally uncorrupted by sin, would kill himself
rather than allow a child to see his genitals.

God saw that it would be hard for Adam, with the innocent state of his mind, to understand
why he shouldn't be allowed to relax in the nude, skinny dip, and enjoy the sight of Eve
walking out of the river wet and glistening, or bending over to pick berries. So, to solve
the quandry, God contrived and staged the episode with the snake and the apple. While
it is true that, as a consequence, the majority of mankind will spend eternity in hell, that
is certainly preferable to the situation we would be in if He had not done so.

Subject: RE: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: ClaireBear
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 01:03 PM

So glad you explained...

Subject: RE: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: gnu
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 01:07 PM

Pass it over here man.

Subject: RE: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: Ed T
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 01:29 PM

That story seems a bit unlikely to us northerners. If it were winter, Adam wouldn't walk bare pole for long, in many northern areas... except'n if he had burning newspapers (we'll, birch bark back then) between his legs to warm up his assets.

What did Adam and Eve do, when they found they were different?

They split the difference and raised Cain:)

I know it's an old one, but ""what's a girl to do"" on a winter's day?

Subject: RE: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 01:57 PM

I'm glad it was hard for Adam when he was enjoying the sight of Eve. Lots of blokes aren't so lucky. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: gnu
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 02:05 PM

They didn't have Viagra back then? God dropped the balls?

Subject: RE: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: EBarnacle
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 02:58 PM

Good interpretation. I had not even considered the implications of the story.

Subject: RE: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 03:43 PM

Hmmmm. Does God Himself wear clothes?

Subject: RE: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: mauvepink
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 03:44 PM

Adam and Eve were in the garden
They were feeling jolly
I wonder how they would have felt
Had all the leaves been holly!

Adam (man) = innocent   All in the same line? Is that why we women are still being blamed for the fall?

Somehow I think there has been some economy of truth going on

But then I'm just a woman...

lol

mp

Subject: RE: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: gnu
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 04:10 PM

Ebbie... yes. At least the God I know. I gave him a handful of spare change again this afternoon and he blessed me. When I waved to him as I was leaving the parking lot I thought, ``Poor bugger... he`s gonna have to stand in front of the liquor store in the snow for quite a while before he gets enough spare change for the night.``

Too bad he`s not the real God or he wouldn`t be begging change in front of the liquor store and neither would anyone else!.

(What really bugs me is that I knew a cop would be along and move him along but not move along the teens who are allowed to stand INSIDE the exit foyer begging for change to support their soccer team... the little fuckers don`t even wear their uniforms... when I was younger than them I was mowing lawns, trimming hedges and shovelling snow for my spare change... pisses me off to no end!

Subject: RE: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: kendall
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 03:36 PM

I'll bet most of you know that they had computers?


Oh yes,

She had an Apple and he had a






Wang

Subject: RE: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 04:21 PM

Adam is symbolic. Eve is symbolic. The Garden of Eden is symbolic. The snake is symbolic. The tree and the fruit are symbolic. Even God himself is symbolic.   ;-) They are all symbolic of sigificant things that occur within every living human being's own levels of consciousness as that person develops and evolves. The entire story is, in my opinion, a simple parable about the development of the inner human....developments in consciousness, in uniting the masculine and feminine principles, in awareness of moral responsibility, loss of innocence, etc.

Most of the ancient Israelites didn't get that. They took the story literally. Most of the Christians didn't get it then, and most of them don't get it now. Nor do the Muslims or Jews. And most of the anti-Christians don't get it either...they assume it's a ridiculous literal story such as they would expect, because they already figure that religions must be ridiculous, right?

Thus yer mostly spinnin' yer wheels uselessly having contention over literal interpretations of an old symbolic parable, and I'm not gonna help you out, cos it probably would just irritate you and waste a bunch of my time! ;-D Carry on attacking windmills and straw men of your choice, and have lots of fun while you do it, because fun is part of what we're here for, I figure.

Subject: RE: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: frogprince
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 04:43 PM

"yer mostly spinnin' yer wheels uselessly having contention over literal interpretations of an old symbolic parable"

L.H., whuntnhell on this thread looks to you like anyone taking anything literally, or "having contention" over it? Go pontificate on one of the threads where people are actually taking themselves seriously, you silly Shatnerite!

Subject: RE: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 05:13 PM

I have it on good authority that Bill Shatner does exist (at least Leonard Nimoy says so).

Subject: RE: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 06:04 PM

i,m not gonna follow this thread as mudcat is threatening to take over my life!
but have you heard this one-
God asked adam"did you eat the forbidden fruit"
adam- "it was the womans fault?"
God asked eve "did you eat it?"
eve-"it was the snakes fault"
and of course;when it got to the snake,he did,nt have a leg to stand on.

Subject: RE: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 07:30 PM

While we're at it (or something like it (or something completely different)), did you know that in Welsh the Great Beast of the Book of Revelation is a duck - chwech chwech chwech!

Nos da. Wela i chi yfory!

Subject: RE: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 07:30 PM

"Adam is symbolic. Eve is symbolic. The Garden of Eden is symbolic. The snake is symbolic. The tree and the fruit are symbolic. Even God himself is symbolic. . . ."

Well, son-of-a-gun!! And all this time, I. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: gnu
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 08:00 PM

Zildjian, and then Sabian cymbals (a convoluted family infighting story) have been made in New Brunswick for many years. Perhaps there was a snake in the ass when Eden when to hell. Cymbolic... perhaps.

BTW, Dave, would that be a duck aèlèorange... aggghhhh... my keyboard is still messed up!

Subject: RE: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: EBarnacle
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 10:20 PM

gnu, it was a test. That really was God to see whether you still followed the Golden Rule. All the others are merely commentary.

Dave, that sounds like the Yiddish: Kvetch, kvetch, kvetch. [Complain, complain, complain.]

Subject: RE: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: Beer
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 11:22 PM

Love your post Dean and your theory as well.
Hope you can make it this way come the sunshine.
AD

Subject: RE: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 06:35 AM

Get rid of the plosives and you'll be close, EBarnacle, though would anybody be speaking in Yiddish in New Testament times?

Subject: RE: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 08:44 AM

I have heard say that the forbidden fruit really was a tomato not an apple. Can't imagine either filling Adam with excitment and desire unless it really was a juicy peach peeled of course because Adam being a man (wimp) probably would have whined about the furry skin. The juice from the peach dripped down on the fig leaves they were wearing which had to be removed for drying and voila nakedness!!

Subject: RE: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: Beer
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 08:50 AM

Dean,
John f.Weldon would have fun with this thread.
ad.

Subject: RE: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: SINSULL
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 09:12 AM

Was incest a sin in the Garden of Eden? I can't figure out how else they could have propagated.

Subject: RE: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 09:26 AM

If you take the story literally, then we must all be inbreeds (which explains a lot)

Subject: RE: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: mauvepink
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 09:41 AM

The snake must have been male. That says it all! ;-)

NOT us women's fault after all lol

mp

Subject: RE: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: EBarnacle
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 09:47 AM

I have also heard it called a pomegranate, rather than an apple.

Subject: RE: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 10:56 AM

Agreed mp, agreed!

Well according to Stephen Fry all europeans derive from the same man so that explains why we are so nutty then.

Subject: RE: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 10:59 AM

How would they have known what goes where, most of us at least have had diagrams hey? Not knocking us British but it would have taken ages to get that together.

Subject: RE: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 11:11 AM

Teacher to class: Does anyone know who the first woman was?


Class: no response


Teacher: Here's a clue: something to do with apples...


Boy at back of class: Granny Smith, Miss??

Subject: RE: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: frogprince
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 11:23 AM

The fruit was actually a prebolia; you can't get them at the market, because there has never been more than that one tree. If it's still alive, the location has been lost and never rediscovered. The name was never mentioned in the Bible, so no one knew it until it was revealed to me by special revelation.

Subject: RE: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 11:31 AM

I think it's name was actually preboolea, and it disappeared around the time that logic was discovered

Subject: RE: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 12:01 PM

Some months ago, when some other controversy was being discussed, I visited a web site that a news report said was "the voice of ..." some fairly large conservative xtian segment.

The transcripts of sermons in one section of the site discussed the burning queston of whether women, whose souls are inherently imperfect, could go to heaven like men do.

It was apparent that this was a matter of great importance to many people in the congregation(s) to whom he spoke, and he went into some detail regarding the various interpretations of the true word.

Among the assertions was that a woman is "made more perfect" by being married to a pious man, and if he went to heaven she could "take joy in perpetual purgatory" in having helped him there, even if her soul was excluded. (This was, in part, the evasion he used to evade an answer for unmarried women.)

His ultimate conclusion was that all souls can be admitted to heaven if they have not "offended god" but once there "all souls will be made perfect in heaven so of course they'll all be made to be like men."

In a separate sermon he asserted that in heaven all souls will love each other perfectly, and since it will be perfect love and all souls will be "men souls" it appears that totally promiscuous homosexual love must be the only perfect love. Apparently he believes that it's forbidden here just so that those in heaven will appreciate it more when they get there, but his explorations of this topic were not completed to my satisfaction, although he gave me the distinct impression that, in the famous words of Custer's scout, - - - "I don't wanna go."

John

Subject: RE: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: SINSULL
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 12:10 PM

Are you serious, John? I need that link.
M

Subject: RE: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: mauvepink
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 02:47 PM

I don't mind being in a man's world... as long as I can be a woman in it (Mae West). I so agree with her

Heaven forbid we all become men ;-)

I am not against men. My Dad was one, and a fine man, but a world without women is unthinkable I suspect even for men!

I'm all disturbed now :-(

lol

mp

Subject: RE: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 03:08 PM

Seems to me the proposal was for a heaven without women rather than a world without them - a prospect that is not worrying me in the least as it is so unlikely I will find myself there.

Subject: RE: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: gnu
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 03:42 PM

SINS... good one!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 04:33 PM

I understand that classic guitar virtuoso Andrès Segovia was once heard to say that if in heaven he had to set aside his belovèd guitar and play the harp, he didn't want to go.

Likewise:   no women? No Firth!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: frogprince
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 05:24 PM

As sexist as a lot of fundamentalist doctrine tends to be, JohnI.K. discovered some stuff that goes way past anything I've ever heard in that regard. I can just picture the fool sputtering and turning beet red if he heard John's conclusion based on his preaching: "totally promiscuous homosexual love must be the only perfect love". Whatever anyone might think of the Biblical views of male and female, I think it's safe to say the vast majority of even hard core Christian fundamentalists would be dumbfounded to hear anyone claim to get that out of the Bible.

The majority of fundamentalists catagorize other fundamentalists who come up with views that extreme as being cultists, not fundamentalists. On the other hand, some fundamentalists who are that far out on their own twisted limb insist that they are not fundamentalists, but rather a group apart as the only true keepers of the flame.

Incidentally, I've never heard any protestant group, fundamentalist or otherwise, hold to the concept of purgatory.

Subject: RE: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 05:58 PM

The real story is this: First there was Chimps, Gorillas, and Baboons. The Chimps and Gorillas was God's chosen, and was marked as such cos they didn't have no tails, but the Baboons had tails, so God put them to work in the garden cleanin' up all the garbage and waste, while the Chimps and Gorillas got to eat from the fruits of the garden. God peopled the garden with many Chimps and Gorillas, male and female he made them, and they was thrivin' by the millions in the Garden.

From the Baboons eventually came all the other monkeys. From the Chimps and Gorillas came all the other apes.

After awhile the Gorillas began tamperin' with the natural order of things cos they was coveting the Chimpettes, and that wasn't right. The Gorillas had seen that the Chimpettes was far more beautiful than the Gorilla females. (Ever seen how ugly female Gorillas are? I have. I am not all that surprised that the male Gorillas started lookin' around for new possibilities...but they shoulda known better!).

God got plenty ticked off about this, and he called all the Gorillas together and gave 'em a stiff lecture: HANDS OFF THE FEMALE CHIMPS! OR ELSE!!!!!!!

That put a scare into the Gorillas, so they backed off for awhile, but in secret they was still plottin' to get even somehow.

Well, there was this one Gorilla who had no scruples, see? His name was Canoodle. This here Canoodle decided that if he could not have a female Chimp, then he would have somethin' else instead just to get back at God, so he found the scrawniest gal Howler Monkey you've ever seen and bribed her with a boatload of premium bananas from the East end of the Garden. Her name was Easey.

I don't want to get too graphic, but they did it up, down, and sideways in a totally lewd fashion. After Canoodle had done the dirty deed and fully satisfied his carnal desires, he was stricken with guilt, and he ran off and hid out in the bushes. Everyone said, "Where's Canoodle lately? Anyone seen him?" But no one knew where he had gone. Easey kept her mouth shut about their illicit liason, but she soon realized, with horror, that she was pregnant!

Some months after that the female Howler Easey gave birth to twins, and they was really strange lookin'! They looked sorta like real puny hairless apes of some kind, and they didn't have no tails. She named one of them Adam and the other Eve. Bein' as how these two was some kind of genetic abberation, they was moved off to one part of the Garden where the sight of them wouldn't upset the rest of the primates, and there they grew very slowly to adulthood.

It was them two who became the forerunners of the entire human race, and it proved to be a disaster for the entire planet, as anyone can see. They was primates all right, but they was half ape and half monkey, and I don't have to tell you that that is not a good combination! They was soon breedin' like rabbits and overrunnin' everything, and that is why God kicked them both outta the Garden. Then they started murderin' each other and havin' wars. Then they started cuttin' down all the trees and diggin' up the land. They made deserts where forests once had stood. They multiplied all over the place, and there was hardly a place left where they did not go and mess things up for the apes and monkeys and the other creatures. Everything basically went to shit.

To this day the Chimps still blame the Gorillas for what happened, and all because Canoodle done what he did. Without Canoodle, Adam and Eve would never have happened, and there would be no human race on this planet.

- Chongo

Subject: RE: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: mauvepink
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 06:22 PM

I don't think any primate could breed like a rabbit! The teeth are all wrong for one thing ;-)

I heard Eve was born with 8 breasts though. When she was asked if she liked the garden she said it was fine but she found it hard to sleep with all those boobs. In an effort to help she had 6 removed, thrown on a compost heap at the bottom of the garden, and setlled in. A while later she was again asked how she was doing. She said she was lots better but none of the other animals would have anything to do with her now as she only had two breasts. They had thrown her outside of their community. She asked for a companion to sleep with as she got lonely at night. They could not decide how to make her a companion. She did not like the idea of giving up a rib or anything... so they turned the spare boobs into a companion! Legend has it anyway ;-)

To this day bonobos are still affected badly by it all

mp

Subject: RE: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: gnu
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 08:16 PM

mpink... sounds as plausible as other stories I have heard.

Subject: RE: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: TheSnail
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 08:34 PM

GUEST,pete from seven stars link

and of course;when it got to the snake,he did,nt have a leg to stand on.

Ah, but...

It was only after the incident with the apple that God cursed the serpent "Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life" so the pre-lapsarian serpent must have had legs.

Subject: RE: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 08:44 PM

Eve discarded six boobs, eh? I'm glad I'm not the only one who suffers from mammary loss...

Subject: RE: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 04:51 AM

Eve was kind of lucky because there were no other women that she could be compared to, so she was quids in really. No worries of worrying about any infidelities or Adam getting home late (unless eaten by a snake or something of course) she had it made, infact she had the power to blackmail him into anything.

Subject: RE: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 05:30 AM

Well, according to my version of the bible, at the line "God said, 'Let us make man in our own image..." there is a helpful footnote which reads; "Man, adam, is a collective nound ('mankind'); hence the plural in "Let them be masters of ..." So forget this idea that there is a person Adam; there seems to be have been a good few. Eve, on the other hand, seems to be singular.

Genesis recommends polyandry: you read it here first!

Subject: RE: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 06:17 AM

"Let us make man in our own image, after our likeness"

There's apparently a Jewish legend that God was a hermaphrodite, so Adam when he was created was too, until Eve was created. There's also the use of the plural in some of the early stories, which is traditionally explained as being the equivalent of the Royal We, but could also be explained by the Jews being polytheistic, possibly right up till the exile, and the plural was too well known to be edited out.

Subject: RE: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 08:49 AM

Er, how could she blackmail him...?

Subject: RE: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: GUEST,999
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 12:09 PM

". . . until it was revealed to me by special revelation."

Damn. Y'oughta write a book about that. Call it The Book of, uh--ok, now I'm lost.

Subject: RE: BS: Adam and Eve, the Real Story
From: GUEST,999
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 12:12 PM

"Adam is symbolic. Eve is symbolic. The Garden of Eden is symbolic. The snake is symbolic. The tree and the fruit are symbolic. Even God himself is symbolic."

Fuckin' thanks for bursting my bubble.