BS: Mubarak-Going Going...?- Gone!

Subject: BS: Mubarak-Going Going...
From: Charley Noble
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 12:41 PM

It's been announced on CNN and other media outlets that Hosni Sayyid Mubarak will be addressing the nation this evening in Egypt, and that he will be likely announcing he is stepping down from the Presidency, turning over control of the government to a military council who would hold power for a transition period until elections can be held.

If this story is true, the protesters have won a major victory. They then will have a major challenge negotiating with the military and other parties to ensure that fair elections do take place in a timely fashion. But the protesters deserve to savour and celebrate their moment of victory, and I'm sure they will.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Mubarak-Going Going...
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 12:51 PM

Lots depends on whether, when & how Mubarak goes. The VP & PM are not exactly 'friends' of the revolution.

Subject: RE: BS: Mubarak-Going Going...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 01:08 PM

Looks like a hand-off to Sulieman. If so, the ruling party remains the ruling party, unless the protesters get support from workers at the Canal, the Pipeline, and major ports.
Sulieman has talked with the Moslem Brotherhood, the largest of the opposition groups, but it is conservative in practice.

The protesters do not have the support of the middle class businessmen; they need this support to gain their objectives.

Subject: RE: BS: Mubarak-Going Going...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 01:09 PM

Ain`t ever seen too many juntas leave voluntarily.

Subject: RE: BS: Mubarak-Going Going...
From: bobad
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 01:14 PM

It would appear that the army has already taken power. They are making national statements on the ongoing crisis without him being present and have apparently prevented him from making a speech in which he was to transfer power to his VP Suleiman.

Subject: RE: BS: Mubarak-Going Going...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 01:36 PM

Sulieman, of course, like Mubarak, rose through the military ranks, with training in both Russia and the Warfare School in Fort Bragg, North Carolina. He has been chief of intelligence operations for some time.
In fact, though not in name, the military has had the upper hand for the last 30 years. They have been funded heavily by the United States.
Sulieman seems to have the support of EU and U. S. leaders.

Just what the lower rank of urban Egyptian will achieve remains to be seen. His advances, in freedom, jobs, education, must be financed- largely from the outside.

Can the U. S. billions be re-directed? Certainly the Egyptian military will not want to be reduced in funding.

Subject: RE: BS: Mubarak-Going Going...
From: pdq
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 01:49 PM

Egypt Between Dictatorships And Revolutions: A Choice Between Bad and Worse
                                                                                                                                                 ~ Nonie Darwish

Egypt's rebellion has been lingering in the horizon for a very long time. The brutal life of the ordinary Egyptian was waiting for the right moment to explode. But instead of understanding what was surely coming, the 82-year-old Mubarak has wasted every opportunity to transfer power to another administration peacefully. He could have gone down in history as the first Arab leader to conduct a fair election and transfer power peacefully. But he kept ignoring the inevitable and, following the many sad examples in the region, kept re-electing himself for 30 years, grooming his son to take over. Now he will go down in history as just another tyrant in the long line of known and unknown ones in the dysfunctional history of the Muslim world.

Is this just a coincidence or is there something in Muslim culture that perpetuates this vicious cycle? I believe the latter is true. I was born and raised in the generation of the 1952 Nasser Egyptian revolution, which promised freedom, democracy, Arab Nationalism, socialism and self rule. It is the revolution that promised that the era of oppressive colonial rule was over. But what the revolution gave Egypt was more of the same and even worse conditions than the era before it; more poverty, illiteracy, tyrannical dictatorships and a police state.

Westerners often describe the current Egyptian government as secular when in reality it is not. It is true that Mubarak comes from a military background and neither he nor his wife wear Islamic clothes. But no Muslim leader can get away with or even survive one day in office if he is secular in the true sense of the word. It was during Mubarak's rule in 1991 that Egypt signed the Cairo Declaration for Human Rights stating that Sharia Law supercede any other law. So even though Sharia is not 100% applied in Egypt, it is officially the law of the land. Mubarak, like all Muslim leaders, must appease the Islamists to avoid their wrath. According to Sharia itself, a Muslim head of state must rule by Islamic law and preserve Islam in its original form or he must be removed from office. That law leaves no choice for any Muslim leader. Because of that law Muslim leaders must play a game of appearing Islamic and anti-West while trying to get along with the rest of the world.

I am not optimistic that the current uprising in the Middle East will bring democracy. Many Egyptians believe they can combine democracy with Sharia Islamic law; that is the first unrealistic expectation. 60% of Egyptians want to live under Sharia law but do not understand the ramifications. Many chant "Allahu Akbar" and "Islam is the solution." But the truth is, Islam is the problem.

Perhaps the most dangerous law in Sharia that stands in the way of democracy is the one that states that "A Muslim head of State can hold office through seizure of power, meaning through force." That law is the reason every Muslim leader must turn into a despotic tyrant to survive, literally. When a Muslim leader is removed from office by force, we often see the Islamic media and masses accept it and even cheer for the new leader who has just ousted or killed the former leader, who is often called a traitor to the Islamic cause. That was what happened to the Egyptian King Farouk in 1952. Sadat's assassination followed many fatwas of death against him for having violated his Islamic obligations to make Israel an eternal enemy. He became an apostate in the eyes of the hard-liners and had to be killed or removed from office. This probably sounds incredible to the Western mind, but this is the reality of what Sharia has done and is still doing to the political chaos in the Muslim world.

The choice in Egypt is not between good and bad, it is between bad and worse. The Muslim world lacks the understanding of what is hindering them and lacks the moral and legal foundation for forming a stable democratic political system. They will continue to rise and fall, stumble from one revolution to another and living from one tyrant to another looking for the ideal Islamic state that never was. The 1400 year old Islamic history of tyranny will continue unless Sharia Law is rejected as the basis of the legal and political systems in Muslim countries.

Subject: RE: BS: Mubarak-Going Going...
From: Mrrzy
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 02:31 PM

Wow. This is like 1989 all over again....

Subject: RE: BS: Mubarak-Going Going...
From: akenaton
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 02:41 PM

Wonder where the US interests lie?

Certainly not with the Egypian people!

Subject: RE: BS: Mubarak-Going Going...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 02:51 PM

Just follow the money trail and you will have your answer.

Subject: RE: BS: Mubarak-Going Going...
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 04:19 PM

going, going....... sorry, NOT going.

He's got a couple million angry people chanting down there...but I doubt he can hear them. Hold your breath.... I wouldn't want to be on the streets of Cairo tomorrow.

Subject: RE: BS: Mubarak-Going Going...
From: Beer
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 05:05 PM

This is not good.
ad.

Subject: RE: BS: Mubarak-Going Going...?- NOT-
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 05:29 PM

I am reminded of the Queensland Premier Joh Bjelke Petersen - who after much pressure, even from his own party said he would resign on 8/8/88 (this was to be during Expo 88 - and he wanted to open Expo). That created such furore, that he was eventually pressured to go earlier.

Subject: RE: BS: Mubarak-Going Going...?- NOT-
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 06:05 PM

As I thought, the ruling party remains the ruling party. The protesters base is not broad enough to lead to significant change in how Egypt is governed.

Subject: RE: BS: Mubarak-Going Going...?- NOT-
From: Charley Noble
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 07:55 PM

The Egyptian ambassador has explained that Mubarak has transferred all of his powers to his Vice-President but wants to remain as a figurehead President.

I certainly can see why the protesters are not satisfied with that action. The Vice-President is the former head of the secret police and was hand-picked by Mubarak. He certainly would have the power to retaliate against individual protesters, if the general protest dispersed. Or he might decide to simply ride it out without more provocative acts.

The protesters seem to be more in favor of the Army taking an active role in ruling during a transition to civilian control via elections. The risk there is that an Army Council may decide that it's in the public interest for continued military rule.

There's not a lot of good choices here but it's possible that the Egyptians can come up with a more creative solution. I certainly hope so.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Mubarak-Going Going...?- NOT-
From: mousethief
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 08:01 PM

I wish I had taken a screen shot of the FoxNoise website. While every other news website was saying, "Mubarek May Step Down, Sources Say", the FauxNews site said boldly, "MUBAREK WILL STEP DOWN" and went on to explain how they had an inside track. Interestingly that was quickly changed when it became apparent that the hopes were not going to be fulfilled.

@Charley: Yes, the military taking control and not letting go would be one thing I would fear if I were an Egyptian. And I doubt that Suleiman won friends or influenced people when he said to stop listening to "that satellite news channel" (or however exactly he put it). Because of course the government-run television will always tell you the truth. Yeah.

Subject: RE: BS: Mubarak-Going Going...?- NOT-
From: EBarnacle
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 12:48 AM

Today is going to be interesting. The people are going to march on the Presidential palace.
Possibility 1: The army backs Mubarak and stops the protestors.
Possibility 2: The protestors are allowed to invade the palace.
Possibility 2a: Mubarak escapes.
Possibility 2b: Mubarak is killed.
Possibility 2b1: The assassination is blamed on an Iranian to break the Shiite relationship.
Possibility 2b2: the assassination is blamed on an Israeli to void the treaty.

May you live in interesting times, cousin.

Subject: RE: BS: Mubarak-Going Going...?- NOT-
From: Charley Noble
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 08:40 AM

As I said in the initial post:

"IF this story is true, the protesters have won a major victory."

What a roller-coaster! I'm impressed that the people assembled in the square yesterday evening were as "restrained" as they were. No buildings were burned or trashed. Nobody seems to have been seriously injured or even arrested.

Today I would expect to see the most massive demonstration yet, and I predict that before nightfall Mubarak will opt to vacate the palace via his waiting helicopter for Sharm el Sheikh.

Or perhaps one of Eric's darker options will become reality.

I'm reminded of the wave of mass demonstrations with toppled the Communist governments in Eastern Europe in the 1990's. People power can do it.

Charley Noble, hoping for the best, whatever that is...

Subject: RE: BS: Mubarak-Going Going...?- NOT-
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 08:49 AM

Interesting discussion on Question Time last night. The 'ultra-conservative' suggested that the Egyptian people should be encouraged in their struggle for democracy - as long as they sought guidance from the West.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Mubarak-Going Going...?- NOT-
From: mousethief
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 11:14 AM

Today I would expect to see the most massive demonstration yet, and I predict that before nightfall Mubarak will opt to vacate the palace via his waiting helicopter for Sharm el Sheikh.

I read a report of a rumor yesterday that he was already there, and did his telecast from there.

Subject: RE: BS: Mubarak-Going Going...?- NOT-
From: EBarnacle
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 11:25 AM

He has resigned and headed for Sharm el Sheikh.

Subject: RE: BS: Mubarak-Going Going...?- NOT-
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 11:25 AM

Well, he's gone now.

Subject: RE: BS: Mubarak-Going Going...?- NOT-
From: olddude
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 11:29 AM

Now if they embrace power of the people for free elections or if they embrace the far extremists that is the question. I believe it will ultimate turn out to be a very good thing. They has seen that people can change things for the good of all. I suspect they are not going to let a group of extremest take away what they just accomplished. This could be a very good thing indeed

Subject: RE: BS: Mubarak-Going Going...?- NOT-
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 11:37 AM

Ah yes, that's what they said when the Shah left Iran, wasn't it.

Only time will tell.

Subject: RE: BS: Mubarak-Going Going...?- NOT-
From: Amos
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 11:39 AM

There are some tricky power politics to work through before the future of Egypt can be read clearly. But the historic plateau of a revolutionary sea-change inspired at a grass-roots level is one for the books, you bet.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Mubarak-Going Going...?- NOT-
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 11:40 AM

GONE!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Mubarak-Going Going...?- NOT-
From: olddude
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 11:47 AM

Well there was big difference on how the US responded to the Shaw and this time. However, one thing about the Middle east is , impossible to predict

Subject: RE: BS: Mubarak-Going Going...?- NOT-
From: bobad
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 12:05 PM

The Shah of Iran fell on February 11, 1979, the same day in 2011 that Mubarak resigned. Creepy, isn't it? I hope the prognosis of Egypt is not the same as that of Iran. Scary thought.

Subject: RE: BS: Mubarak-Going Going...?- NOT-
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 12:30 PM

I don't think the USA would find Iran "scary" at all if Iran was pursuing an oil marketing policy in line with what the USA wants and if the Iran Hostage crisis had not happened during Jimmy Carter's term of office in the 70s. Rather, I think Iran would be regarded today as another reliable ally of the USA, regardless of the nature of their government, and that all would be hunky-dory between Iran and the USA, and you wouldn't hear a peep about Iran's alleged nuclear weapons program. (It's perfectly legal for them to have a nuclear reactor and a nuclear power program to generate electricity anyway, which is what they have always claimed is all they are doing).

What I'm saying is that if Iran was cooperating with the USA on how they market their oil, and cooperating on joint military security (as Egypt and the other Arab nations presently do) Iran would be seen as a "good guy" in the western media, and no one would be spreading scare stories about their leaders, their Mullahs or their domestic nuclear program. Pakistan has a domestic nuclear pogram too, is militantly Islamic, and already has nuclear bombs. You don't hear much about it, do you? (except when they are in danger of getting into another war with India)


*****

Regarding Mubarak's exit: BRAVO!!! It's a great symbolic event, a watershed, one that should serve to inspire hopeful people all across the Muslim world. It proves that corrupt leaders can be brought down by ordinary people in the streets! How it will turn out farther down the road, no one can say.

It should serve to inspire us too. We may see something like it in our own country(s) someday.

Subject: RE: BS: Mubarak-Going Going...?- NOT-
From: EBarnacle
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 12:36 PM

I have heard that the army is actually in charge behind the scenes, as they were when Sadat was shot, supposedly by the Muslim Brotherhood.

Subject: RE: BS: Mubarak-Going Going...?- Gone!
From: pdq
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 12:59 PM

It can be said that a group called Islamic Jihad was behand the assassination of Anwar Sadat. It can also be said the Muslim Brotherhood, members of the Egyptian army and Dr. Ayman al-Zawahiri (now #2 man in al-Qaeda) were behind the assassination. Trouble is, all these statements would be correct.

Things ain't always as simple as the new media try to make them.

Subject: RE: BS: Mubarak-Going Going...?- Gone!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 01:13 PM

"Things ain't always as simple as the new media try to make them."

That's for damned sure! ;-) I bet if you lined up all the people who wanted Anwar Sadat dead, the line would stretch from here to Jerusalem. You could have said the same about all the people who wanted John Kennedy dead in 1963. There are often quite a number of different elements and groups involved in arranging a major assassination, and a number of different interests being served simultaneously by doing it.

The mass media like to make things very simple and primitive. They are programming a public who are used to TV shows and movies that make everything simple (with obvious bad guys and good guys) and settle it all neatly within about an hour (less commercial interruptions), so they figure that if they make it all dead simple, then people will:

1. understand the dumbass message being conveyed
2. believe it
3. and think no further about it

Thus is political propaganda foisted upon the masses, and mass conformity and obedience is achieved.

Subject: RE: BS: Mubarak-Going Going...?- Gone!
From: pdq
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 01:27 PM

Seems to me that the news media are telling the American people to cheer the exit of Mubarak, but what are we really cheering? The establishment of a military dictatorship? Perhaps a plan to give the Muslim Brotherhood more power in the Egyptian government?

I can't think of a single Arab-dominated country that has open and fair elections other than Iraq, I we forced them into it. If it happens in Egypt, then cheer. It's too early for that right now.

Subject: RE: BS: Mubarak-Going Going...?- Gone!
From: GUEST,Roger Knowles
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 01:34 PM

Now he's gone, maybe some other countries will have a go at getting a fair shake. Can we start with the UK and get rid of the liar Clegg?

Subject: RE: BS: Mubarak-Going Going...?- Gone!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 01:41 PM

I think they're just saying what they figure will make the best general impression on the Egyptian public, the world public, and the American public, pdq. And that's all.

How could any general public not sympathize with such a popular uprising against a tyrant like Mubarak? So the Obama administration is saying what it thinks will make the best momentary impression on people. It's just PR, for gosh sakes!

Behind the scenes, the administration will be worried about the usual stuff, such as:

1. How do we keep the Egyptian government cooperative with our regional policies?

2. How do we keep them obedient to our wishes?

3. How do we ensure that nothing much really changes, except outward appearances?

4. How do we continue securing Israel's safety in regards to Egypt?

What Obama is saying publicly, pdq, is public relations, nothing else, in my opinion.

I hardly know of ANY society that has truly "open and fair" elections, pdq. I'll tell you why. The large political parties are controlled by the very rich. They are funded by the very rich. So are the mass media. The elections that we see do NOT represent the ordinary public, they represent elite competitive power groups among the very rich, and they serve the interests of the very rich. This is true in almost every society in the world today, and there is nothing that ordinary people can do about it other than doing what the Egyptian people just did, and taking their protest agaisnt the system to the streets...because the political parties have all been bought out by their rich backers! The candidates we vote for are the candidates they groomed and chose to publicize. It's a fixed game. No matter WHICH party wins. It is NOT a fair and open election...it just goes through the outward motions, that's all.

This is just as true in Canada as it is in the USA or the UK. The whole thing at election time is a charade. You can't have fair and honest elections when the parties have all been bought out by rich oligarchies. The system is corrupted from the top down.

If the Egyptians get the "fair and open" elections you are hoping they'll get, those will probably turn out to be a similar charade.

Subject: RE: BS: Mubarak-Going Going...?- Gone!
From: olddude
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 02:10 PM

Well the media told everyone to cheer at the fall of Saddam ... How better is that place now ... we were told the masses would organize into a democratic system ... ahhhhhh ...not yet that I see .. Egypt is not Iraq ... but ... I keep me fingers crosses that good will happen .. I hope

Subject: RE: BS: Mubarak-Going Going...?- Gone!
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 02:30 PM

Hoser Moobark was just hanging around long enough to make sure the last few wire transfers of his near trillion dollar holdings cleared.
As of last night, Swiss bank had not delivered a needed confirmation.

On day 5 of the demonstrations Mubarak had already sent his wife and two children to a certain luxury hotel in London.

They had in tow over 3 Hundred extremely heavy suitcases and trunks.
I suspect that the 400 kilo valise did not have underwear and socks in them.



All this began with a young man in Tunisia who set himslef on fire on the goverment steps. After it was shown on you tube, much more communication developed on Facebook culminating with demonstrations that made the dictator fly away within a week.

With this people's victory in Tunisia, Egyptians began their protests guided by google and Facebook while State TV was reproting that all the demonstrators were being paid by foreigners and America and said that they were all eating FREE Kentucky Fried Chicken in the square.

Today the State run TV commentators all apologized for having read the lies that the goverment told them to read. Only one of them quit in protest prior to Mubarak's leaving and arriving at his Shamar Sheik Resort Palace. (Can you imagine Fox commentators doing that?)

Now we are watching pure joy erupting and victory finger waves amid fireworks and song in Egypt.


The Tone and facial expressions on FOx Cable nEwS is sinister with the mention of words like catastrophe and disaster. I actually clocked Megan Kelly invoking the words "MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD" thirteen times in sixty seconds! Glen Beck actually screamed to America last night that "You are DEAD, if you believe them" three times while pointing to his chalkbaord of the Obama administration and the Muslim Brotherhood.

CNN and MSNBC have really shown the joy of the people at the beginging of their emerging democracy from the ruins of a deadly right wing police state.

Peace be upon them all.





The reality of a google and Facebook revolution have many goverments around the globe calling emergency meetings today. I would like to be a fly on the wall at some of those meetings in China, Saudi Arabia and Iran.
The direction for Syria, Lebanon, Yemen and Jordan are changing daily but I have little reporting to go on. What makes them all different from Iran is that they are claiing for a Muslim Cleric in exile to return and rule. They ask for democracy and end of the dictator or Royal rule.


The first lesson that Egytians will learn is the old russian lesson;
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
As Americans know democracy is easily diverted and corrupted and that change is measured in decades and generations. Some factions will be forever be it the religious intolerent or groups who stand for racism and econoic slavery. Fpr example If you listen in America you will still hear "the south shall rise again"

Subject: RE: BS: Mubarak-Going Going...?- Gone!
From: bobad
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 03:54 PM

Swiss freeze possible Mubarak assets

By Reuters
Friday, February 11th, 2011 -- 12:55 pm

ZURICH - Switzerland has frozen assets possibly belonging to Hosni Mubarak, who stepped down as president of Egypt Friday after 30 years of rule, a spokesman for the foreign ministry said.

"I can confirm that Switzerland has frozen possible assets of the former Egyptian president with immediate effect," spokesman Lars Knuchel said, declining to specify how much money was involved.

In recent years, Switzerland has worked hard to improve its image as a haven for ill-gotten assets and has also frozen assets belonging to Tunisia's former President Zine al-Abidine Ben Ali as well as those of Ivory Coast's Laurent Gbagbo.

(Reporting by Catherine Bosley and Oliver Hirt; editing by David Stamp)

Source: Reuters US Online Report World News

Subject: RE: BS: Mubarak-Going Going...?- Gone!
From: Charley Noble
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 07:13 PM

Certainly good news for the Egyptian people.

And if anyone else wants to consult with me for predictions, such as my prediction this morning at 8:40 am, my rates are very reasonable.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Mubarak-Going Going...?- Gone!
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 07:23 PM

Woo hoo, without storming the palace or forcing the tanks to pick sides! I'm so pleased, it's just like 1989 all over again!

Subject: RE: BS: Mubarak-Going Going...?- Gone!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 07:33 PM

It sure is. Now what if it happened in Saudia Arabia? Syria? Jordan? Yemen? Pakistan? There are a lot of possibilities out there.

Subject: RE: BS: Mubarak-Going Going...?- Gone!
From: kendall
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 07:50 PM

If the Muslim Brotherhood gains power we may be paying for our support of the dictator instead of the people. It's a bad habit we have had for many years.

Subject: RE: BS: Mubarak-Going Going...?- Gone!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 07:55 PM

Here's the Eric Margolis column on Egypt from last Monday (a week ago). It focuses on some interesting stuff, such as...

Massive yearly shipments of grain and munitions to Egypt by the USA, all paid for by American foreign aid. These are the benefits Egypt reaps by following a foreign policy stance that pleases Washington (meaning, among other things, not opposing anything Israel does). Without this annual aid Egypt would soon face food riots and its military would soon be crippled by lack of supplies and spare parts for their equipment.

In short, they either must get food and military aid from the USA...or they must get it from someone else, such as Russia or China?

Of the two needs, the food is paramount.

"For Egypt, Bread is as important as freedom."

I'll be interested to see what Eric has to say in tomorrow's column about the departure of Mubarak.

Subject: RE: BS: Mubarak-Going Going...?- Gone!
From: mousethief
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 08:07 PM

It's a bad habit we have had for many years.

Since Monroe.

Subject: RE: BS: Mubarak-Going Going...?- Gone!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 08:55 PM

Well, the only reason that any powerful country supports a foreign dictator is: he does what they want, he cooperates with their big businesses, he supplies them with desired resources at an agreed-upon price, and he plays ball with their military and political objectives. He also attacks people they want him to attack, and muzzles people they want silenced.

Simple!

A government that is genuinely democratic and therefore responsive to the local people is far less dependable in all those respects than a client dictator is. It may pursue a policy that is not in line with the more powerful country's business and strategic interests! ;-) That makes democracies (like Allende's in Chile) very undesirable to any great imperial power like the USA, because they cannot be so easily controlled.

And that's why events in Egypt have to be making Washington very nervous right now. (not to mention Israel) (and not to mention other Muslim dictatorships!)

Subject: RE: BS: Mubarak-Going Going...?- Gone!
From: Charley Noble
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 09:04 PM

Now that I've had several glasses of chardonnay, I'm curiously concerned about the rights of the Egyptian undead, the mummies. I don't recall seeing any of them in Liberation Square, and no one in this thread has even mentioned them as a power to be reckoned with in the post Mubarak government. Their roots are much more deeper than the Muslim Brotherhood. In times like these, it may be important to think within the pyramid than outside the box!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Mubarak-Going Going...?- Gone!
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 09:18 PM

Yeah, there is hope fir the United States yet...

Problem we have, however, isn't a dictator... The problem is that 2/3s of our system of government is corrupt and dictatorial... The check and balances ain't been checkin' or balancin' too well...

We have a corrupt Supreme Court and we have a corrupt Congress and, like Eqypt, we have massive unemployment and even morfe massive underemployment... And like Eqypt we have a society built very much upon the haves and the have-nots with, like Eqypt, huge income inequalities...

I hope Boss Hog is paying attention but history shows that the only time he pays attention is when there is a gun pointed at his head...

Who knows... Maybe one day Americans will have the courage that the Egyptians have shown??? Me??? I'm ready tomorrow... I can throw rocks and fight with the best of 'um...

B~