English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: Reinhard
Date: 05 Jan 19 - 08:50 AM

Incidentally I had Andrew Cadie's CD of Northumbrian fiddle tunes selected from William Vickers's manuscript (1770-2) in the post today, and I'm just listening to it. Woderful tunes played beautifully.

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 05 Jan 19 - 05:49 AM

I'm enjoying Andrew Cadie's latest album, Half Witted, Merry and Mad, fiddle tunes from the William Vickers tunebook:

Andrew Cadie - Half-Witted, Merry and Mad

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 03:41 AM

Nick Wyke and Becki Driscoll (from north Devon) are well wroth a listen:

Nick Wyke & Becki Driscoll

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 05:07 AM

Willie Taylor was missing a finger on his fingering hand this affected his style in the same way Django had an individual style on guitar for a similiar reason.It also affected his the style of tunes that he composed.
"He injected a dynamic drive into every tune he played, achieving much of his attack by the use of very strong up-bows at points where most fiddlers would use a down-bow, producing some of the most rhythmic music around." QUOTE FROM HIS OBITUARY,
he had started as a fiddler, later played melodeon and achieved recognition playing with a harmonica player and a piper., to some extent his style would have been affected bu the people he played with,at the same time it must be noted that styles of Northumbrian pipe playing styles vary, Billy Pigg had a wilder style than WillHutton , their styles were noticeably different.
It would be more accurate to say Will taylor style was to some extent affected by Will Atkinson [harmonica ]and Will Huttons particular style of pipe playing., then we have to also acknowledge the influence of Scottish Border fiddle playing style.
Will Taylors style was made up from a complex mix of differing styles.
Jon Bodens comments are an over simplification,and for that reason are only of small value,
to say that northeast fiddle playing was affected by northumbrian pipe playing is also an over simplification,northeast fiddle playing can vary considerably and is affected by Scottish border fiddle playing as well.
Then one hasto ask what is meant by north east fiddle playing?does he mean purely northumbrian or other north eastern counties
My experience tells me that the style of English concertina -playing of Ali Anderson is influenced to some extent by northumbrian pipe playing
No i do not think those two tunes exemplify whatJonBoden says in his article.
Jons remarks are an over simplification and are imo lightweight comments

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 02:49 AM

Sandman,

Don't you think those two tunes exemplify what Jon Boden says in his article: that the northeast fiddle style is (at least in part) derived from Northumbrian pipe playing?

Harry

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 02:31 AM

a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U38EvqYfgp0">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U38EvqYfgp0
willie taylor

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 10:59 AM

there are a number of English styles.

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 10:30 AM

I think I can now see why there is no 'English style'- the English are too contrarian to have one.

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 09:25 AM

Above typo should be" to watch the dancers".
Finally, fiddle bowing should not be following a formula, it should be flexible and variable, the melodeon has a good rythmic approach but to emulate it rigidly is not the answer imo to achieve good Dance playing on the fiddle,
the problem being that most melodeon and anglo players do not change direction on notes of the same pitch, because it is not natural and is sometimes awkward, that is one of the limitations of the melodeon along with its inabilty to play anything but fixed semitones and tones,
there is nothing wrong with borrowing certain styles from other instruments up to a point, but to advocate copying melodeons as a style [full stop] must be treated with a certain amount of caution] for if it s treated a dogma it has to be limiting and may work to some extent but is not going to work for all styles of English dance music. I very much doubt if it would work for Northumbrian Pipe music, it will have its limitations [imo] for hornpipes, and will always have limitations when dealing with two notes of the same pitch.

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: Mo the caller
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 09:11 AM

Jon's style may be ONE type of English, there are and have been others. Might do for Morris dance, other styles might fit Playford dances or rants better. And that's just if you are talking about playing for dancing.

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 09:06 AM

"borrowing the phrasing of a melodeon when one is playing a fiddle"well it depends how rigid the musician is about it, to copy melodeon phrasing as a dogma is limiting.
THE Hammerd dulcimer is also quite a diffeent instrument it has problems of notes ringing on, like the accordion it has similar limitations,it has also an added problem it is essentially a legato instrument, its opposite is the bowedpsaltery ,which is anonlegato instrument.
The Fiddle is a very versatile instrument in a certain way its closest instrument is the Trombone.
For Morris dancing fiddlers would be advised primarily to atcg the dancers, to slavishly copy melodeon phrasing is much too rigd an approach, of course rythymis important but fiddlers can impart ryhthym and phrasing woithout slavishly copying Melodeons.For example MELODEONS WILL RARELY REVERSE BELLOWS WHEN PLAYING THE SAME NOTE TWICE[ because they do not need to] YET THERE ARE OCCASIONS WHEN A FIDDLER MIGHT THINK IT APPROPRIATE TO REVERSE FIDDLKE BOWING DIRECTIO ON THE SAME NOTE.
An example that springs to my mind is the playing of 4/4 hornpipes where at the end of the first side there are often three stamp beats, a fiddler might[ a matter of taste] change bowing direction to emphasise rythym, most melodeon players would not do so if the note was the same pitch, so we could have a silly scenario wherby a fiddler emulating melodeon bellows direction ends up playing the note less rythmically because he /she is followin a dogmatic copy of melodeon phrasing., that IMO could mean the music becomes less dancey.
Bowing is vitally important in Dance music, and should not be limited by following melodeon phrasing as a dogma

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 08:24 AM

"English Fiddle Listening Suggestions? "
Twenty of years ago I would have said "earplugs"
We wre having a pint one night in a Wimbledon pub when a bunch of fiddlers walked in, asked the governor if it was ok to play and, for the next hour or so, were highly entertained with some very fine, mainly English fiddle playing - not the same as the Irish music we have come to know and love, but certainly as enjoyable when played well
Personally, I go for the North Eastern English style of playing, and, in all cases, a reasonable, not-too-fast pace, but that's me
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 08:22 AM

I can see the merits of experimenting in this way, in practice most musicians will do something like this at some point, whether it's appreciating the drone of bagpipe and trying to incorporate that feature, or noting that the swell-snap of a concertina really lifts a particular tune, so taking a leaf out the squeezebox book.

The problem, if there is one, with that Jon Boden quote is that he sounds just a little too programmatic about it, as if there's some kind of almost moral imperative to find some kind of special recognisable signpost to mark out English fiddle playing. But then again he's also quick to say that that's only what he does; it's what works for him.

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 08:11 AM

Sandman,

I believe the diatonic accordian was used as an English folk instrument a good hundred years before 1949.

Did you read the article?

Jon Boden suggests, " . . . . studying the phrasing and emphasis of the Morris dance or country-dance melodeonist: the ‘yup’ sound created by an anticipatory swell of the bellows building to a staccato stab on the beat (not an easy thing to achieve on a fiddle, but quite effective when you get it right; it’s helped by a glissando and left-hand ‘damping’ to stop the note ringing on); the use of double-stopping to create rhythmical swagger rather then sweet harmony; trills; aggression; and air between the notes. Rather than aping the bowing patterns of the pre-Victorian fiddle . . . . . we should follow the melodeon patterns.

Using this model, the fiddle can become almost indistinguishable from the melodeon, while simultaneously bringing the ability to glissando, vibrato, growl and more to the limited repertoire of sounds afforded by the free-reed system of the melodeon. This is not really a new approach – fiddlers have been subtly imitating the melodeon since it was invented. All I’m suggesting is that we should approach it a bit more head-on".

Although I wouldn't want my fiddle to ever be "indistinguishable from the melodeon", I can certainly see the merits in 'borrowing' the phrasing of other musicians; even hammered dulcimer players.

Harry

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: GUEST,Pseudonymous
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 06:35 AM

Jon Boden's name came up: where can one get a copy of the theme music to the BBC Count Arthur Strong? I love it. Especially the tuba bits. (Sorry for thread drift)

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 04:32 AM

Jons opinion on english fiddle development is in my opinion,of little merit."
I would like to qualify this by making it clear, that my remarks aply strictly to the idea of a fiddle copying a melodeon., asa way of developing a fiddle style

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 04:13 AM

TWO ROW MELODEONS were introduced relatively recently during the the uk folk revival
Peter Kennedy got the first D/G instruments manufactured for the English folk market - a batch of Club Models built by Hagstrom, a Swedish firm who had set up an accordion factory in Sunderland after WWII and brought Nils Nielsen with them as a young factory-trained tuner. Those boxes were made (subject to a Licence from the Board of Trade, in those immediate post-war years of restrictions, rationing and 100% Sales Tax on musical instruments!) especially for the English Folk Dance Society in 1949, and they could only be bought at that time by members of the Society who had pre-ordered them.
Why should fiddle players be imitating a relatively new instrument, that has a short history as a traditional instrument and bears no resemblance stylistically to a fiddle[ one is a fixed note instrument] that cannot play anything other than semitones and is unable to play quarter tones or any notes between quarter and semi tones. I find the idea of fiddles copying melodeons, illogical .
Logically a fiddle copying a melodeon is about as appropriate as a fiddle copying a Hammered Dulcimer.
Musical styles will continue to cross geographical bundaries ,my advice to all musicians is to listen to styles from many different places and develop ones own style
Jons opinion on english fiddle development is in my opinion,of little merit.Dick Miles

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 03:27 AM

Jon Boden suggests, if we're looking for an English fiddle style, we should be imitating the melodeon players:

What does the future hold for English fiddling?

Any thoughts?

Harry

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 13 Jul 18 - 04:21 AM

Good thread to revive.

Don't think the late John Wright was mentioned in any of the comments. He didn't record many tunes on the fiddle but I LOVE his playing on that handful. Check out the album 'Unaccompanied' on Topic. Genius Jew's Harp playing and some fine singing on there too.

The most useful and inspiring English fiddle playing for me derives from the Northumbrian/Borders players: Adam Gray, Ned Pearson and the other fiddlers featured on compilation albums from Topic and Smithsonian Folkways.

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: Brian Peters
Date: 12 Jul 18 - 11:15 AM

Tom Kitching is great too, BTW!

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: Brian Peters
Date: 12 Jul 18 - 11:05 AM

Bryony's CD 'Hover' is the link to purhcase and to access samples.

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: Brian Peters
Date: 12 Jul 18 - 07:09 AM

Agree 100% with Harry about Bryony Griffith and 'Hover'. Listened to it end to end on a car journey yesterday and it's a lovely mixture of all kinds of English tunes from jigs to 3:2 hornpipes, very well played and with minimal or no accompaniment. You want English fiddle? This is it!

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: Mo the caller
Date: 12 Jul 18 - 04:54 AM

What happened to the link? http://www.helenarmstrong.talktalk.net/thetimebandits/band.html
lets try it this way

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: Mo the caller
Date: 12 Jul 18 - 04:52 AM

As a fumble-fingered caller I am really impressed by people who can play anything well, and I love the way a fiddle can add different things in a band. Many of the bands I call or dance to with have impressive fiddlers. The 2 local fiddlers who have recorded are Tom Kitchen (what more needs saying), and Helen Armstrong who adds harmony to the Time Bandits - the Time Bandits have Helen De Lemos on melody, various wind instrument givng different sounds to each tune

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: GUEST,Peter
Date: 10 Jul 18 - 02:17 PM

A lot more good stuff has been released since this thread was first active in 2011. The first that comes to mind is Alma (inc Emily Askew and John Dipper)

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: GUEST,KarenH
Date: 10 Jul 18 - 02:05 PM

Aly, not Ali Bain. Sorry.

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: GUEST,KarenH
Date: 10 Jul 18 - 01:58 PM

Ali Bain. Not English, though.

Saw him with Phil Cunningham last year. Knock out.

There's a 2018 tour, I note.

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Jul 18 - 01:32 PM

morris, try jinky wells https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xH1ydRXDUa8

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Jul 18 - 01:03 PM

Dave Swarbrick for song accompaniment, imo you should not be thinking about playing english style or irish style but find your own style

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 10 Jul 18 - 12:49 PM

Bryony Griffith's new album, Hover, features some of the best English fiddle playing I've ever heard - wonderful stuff!!

Harry

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 07:55 PM

The styles herein vary greatly! Are they English by heritage rather than fiddling style I wonder?

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Mar 11 - 08:17 AM

refresh

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 24 Feb 11 - 09:12 AM

in kent we have a duo called fiddlefit who mostly play lively covers in an enthusiastic manner.they only have a promo cd as far as i know but probably on you-tube?

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: GUEST,LDT
Date: 24 Feb 11 - 07:57 AM

Thanks for the suggestions. Helps me decide who to go see at festivals too.

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: treewind
Date: 23 Feb 11 - 04:56 AM

Ed Caines (Posh Band)

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: GUEST,folkiedave
Date: 23 Feb 11 - 04:47 AM

Skyhook and you get two fiddlers.

Bottle Bank Band.

Stewart Hardy - but he is a bit advanced!

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 22 Feb 11 - 09:47 PM

Since Ralphie mentioned John Dipper (and he was also mentioned further up the thread) I'll mention Methera . (Yes,I know that has already been mentioned further up the thread as well, but it bears repetition ) - 2 fiddles, viola and cello. I bought their Live CD at their Guildford gig in October , and can highly recommend it and them ... have a look at the Methera website

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 22 Feb 11 - 09:49 AM

Bismarks...2 CDs available....(I get a cameo on the 2nd one!)
And Nina is now a member of Polkaworks, other fiddle input from Fi Fraser. nothing commerscially available as yet.....Great band though..
John Dipper. Apart from his other activities, was in PJD with me and James Patterson, one CD sadly out of print at the moment, might rectify that when finances allow.
Also, the John Dipper band had a short life a few years ago,
There are plenty of other great fiddlers out there. It's just that they've (mainly) not recorded anything....
Ruth Thompson (Colins wife) has just popped into my head! I'll be killed now for not mentioning other friends! Put it down to extreme old age!
Previously mentioned, Jim Eldon. Top Chap!

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: Kara
Date: 22 Feb 11 - 08:46 AM

Ben Paley

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: treewind
Date: 22 Feb 11 - 08:45 AM

LDT - no solo CDs I know of, but both bands have recorded.
The Bismarcks were one of my favourite bands and I'd recommend any of their albums (they made at least two, maybe three, can't remember off hand)

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: Speedwell
Date: 22 Feb 11 - 08:18 AM

I may be wrong but no-one seems to have mentioned Nic Jones. For my money he's a very fine English style fiddle player.

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 22 Feb 11 - 07:31 AM

Whatever happened to Tymon Dogg?

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: greg stephens
Date: 22 Feb 11 - 07:20 AM

For northern England the following are well worth a listen: Paul Roberts, Willie Taylor, Ned Pearson, Kate Barfield between them cover a very wide spectrum. But obviously there are a load of others; that was my taster list, not "the best of". There are no bests in traditional music, just a lot of people doing their thing. But I applaud Paul Davenport's Zen adage. Don't copy,seek and ye shall find.

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: GUEST,LDT
Date: 22 Feb 11 - 05:19 AM

@ChrisP. It arrived today. So just listening to the CD while I'm at work. Enjoying it so far.

@Anahata. Any CD's available?

@Tootler. I have rig-a-jig but not ranting and reeling

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: treewind
Date: 21 Feb 11 - 10:18 AM

Surprised nobody's mentioned Taz Tarry yet.
In The Grand Union Ceilidh Band, along with the aforementioned Paul Burgess.
Also Nina Hansell (ex-Bismarcks)

Both fine fiddlers in different but very English styles.

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Feb 11 - 09:58 AM

Carol Dawson from Workshy Profits?

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: johnadams
Date: 21 Feb 11 - 09:51 AM

I've already mentioned John Di(p)per and I'll second Tom Kitching - I played an Albireo track to open my radio show yesterday and followed it with a Pilgrim's Way track (podcast available later this week) - Tom plays with both and is a really fine player.

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: Valmai Goodyear
Date: 21 Feb 11 - 09:32 AM

Emma Reid. Her workshop for the Lewes Saturday Folk Club three years ago sold out.

Valmai (Lewes)

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Feb 11 - 08:44 AM

But only if you spell his name right............

Subject: RE: English Fiddle Listening Suggestions?
From: GUEST,mattkeen
Date: 21 Feb 11 - 08:44 AM

Just to completely over egg it............ John Diper is brilliant