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BS: Council services cuts UK

Andy Jackson 28 Feb 11 - 06:23 AM
GUEST,Eliza 28 Feb 11 - 06:35 AM
Andy Jackson 28 Feb 11 - 06:38 AM
GUEST,Eliza 28 Feb 11 - 08:48 AM
Micca 28 Feb 11 - 10:10 AM
Andy Jackson 28 Feb 11 - 01:00 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 28 Feb 11 - 01:48 PM
VirginiaTam 28 Feb 11 - 02:02 PM
Andy Jackson 28 Feb 11 - 02:11 PM
GUEST,Eliza 28 Feb 11 - 02:18 PM
McGrath of Harlow 28 Feb 11 - 02:43 PM
Wolfhound person 28 Feb 11 - 03:30 PM
The Fooles Troupe 28 Feb 11 - 05:49 PM
The Fooles Troupe 28 Feb 11 - 06:02 PM
Andy Jackson 28 Feb 11 - 06:44 PM
Leadfingers 28 Feb 11 - 09:42 PM
Micca 28 Feb 11 - 10:55 PM
VirginiaTam 01 Mar 11 - 02:18 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 01 Mar 11 - 02:51 AM
GUEST,Shimrod 01 Mar 11 - 03:52 AM
Andy Jackson 01 Mar 11 - 05:42 AM
banjoman 01 Mar 11 - 05:43 AM
GUEST,Patsy 01 Mar 11 - 10:33 AM
GUEST,Steamin' Willie 01 Mar 11 - 10:33 AM
GUEST,Shimrod 01 Mar 11 - 06:27 PM
VirginiaTam 02 Mar 11 - 02:29 AM
SPB-Cooperator 02 Mar 11 - 02:47 AM
GUEST,Shimrod 02 Mar 11 - 04:30 AM
Arnie 02 Mar 11 - 06:29 AM
GUEST,Eliza 02 Mar 11 - 06:39 AM
VirginiaTam 03 Mar 11 - 02:52 AM
Andy Jackson 03 Mar 11 - 04:30 AM
GUEST,Eliza 03 Mar 11 - 05:06 AM

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Subject: BS: Council services cuts UK
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 28 Feb 11 - 06:23 AM

Starting from a position of enthusiastic ignorance I have a few simple questions

Who says we have to make cuts?
Why?
Where has the money gone?
Who spent it?
Are they paying it back?
If not, have they been replaced?


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Subject: RE: BS: Council services cuts UK
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 28 Feb 11 - 06:35 AM

Oh Miskin Man, JUST the very same questions I've been asking, and I cannot for the life of me come up with any answers. Surely this money must BE somewhere. If so, it's in the pockets of some very crafty and wealthy people. Like a lot of folk, I just cannot afford any more price rises or withdrawal of concessions eg Winter Fuel Payment, as my budget is now cut to the bone. The Politicians who falsely claimed expenses have not been punished, so I imagine that no-one will be 'replaced' or even admonished for this dreadful situation. They cover their tracks, and the rich go on just as usual. The rest of us are having to consider cutting down on food or heating. Disgraceful!


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Subject: RE: BS: Council services cuts UK
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 28 Feb 11 - 06:38 AM

I though it was just me and that I was thick and had missed the lecture when "they" explained it all.


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Subject: RE: BS: Council services cuts UK
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 28 Feb 11 - 08:48 AM

I heard that even the Queen asked someone to explain why nobody saw this coming. No doubt 'they' gave some complicated reasons full of financial gobbledigook!


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Subject: RE: BS: Council services cuts UK
From: Micca
Date: 28 Feb 11 - 10:10 AM

I suspect that a large part of the problems arise because Central Government make payments to local Councils (called Grants) annually, these form a sizable part of the income and therefore tha budget of the Local Council.
Central Gov. are going to cut these Grants and thus create a shortfall in the LCs budget This means the LC have to make cuts in services that they no longer have money to pay for. It Is CGs way of Controlling the spending of LCs


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Subject: RE: BS: Council services cuts UK
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 28 Feb 11 - 01:00 PM

So shouldn't we, or our elected representatives, be saying" we don't accept the cuts, think again". Has anyone said that?
I hear on the news today that they are still planning a super rail link to get people to the next holdup quicker. Shouldn't this be spent on a care home or perhaps a library or two, or saving every lollipop lady? And I don't subscribe to the belief that it is a different pocket. MY money and YOURS goes into one pot and then it is shared out. It is the sharing out process that is fundamentally wrong.


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Subject: RE: BS: Council services cuts UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 28 Feb 11 - 01:48 PM

Yup, a new rail link from London to Brum....umpteen billion...and then 'they' are going to double the aid to Pakistan..just like that, double it. They're stopping it to China, India and Vietnam though, so that's OK...

Hang on..WE are supporting China???? And...India????? And...Pakistan???? The rich don't pay tax in Pakistan, or very, very little...no need to..the country is given aid from abroad...Er...?

I saw it coming, loads of us did, but you couldn't stop it, because we weren't allowed to mention it anywhere, or have minds of our own, or discuss things political..

Darn clever the way 'they' did it...I have to had it to them...

You dumb a population down as far as you can, then you stress them out with bills, mortgages, make 'em work work work, for minimum wage..so they don't have the time, thought or inclination to care what's going on around the planet or in their own town/city/country...Then, whilst they're all drinking themselves senseless, those in charge, behind the governments, are free to do whatever they so choose...

I love the supermarket signs that shout out ***ONLY £1***.....and folks home in on them, not realising that only a few weeks back those same items were about 80pence...

"Ooh, look, Dolores, they're cheap!"

Yeah, right....

I despair, I'm afraid....

And as for Mrs. Queen....I'm sorry, but why didn't she do an outside broadcast from Buck House saying to Her People, "Shit, People, we're all going to hell on a handcart, and I may have to sell some of my paintings, so I think you should all get orf your jolly backsides and do something about this, if you can.."

Rule Britannia!

So, they did, they have, and they will continue to do so until all us Britannians turn out on the streets and say "FOOK OFF!"...then find that Absolute Bastards who have all the money... :0)


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Subject: RE: BS: Council services cuts UK
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 28 Feb 11 - 02:02 PM

The central government should force the local authorities to reduce the nonsensical pay packages and bonuses that Directorate level management receive.

Then tease out several levels of middle management. Most local authorities have become top heavy with management. It wasn't so long ago that mere admin staff were doing the tasks that now officers and managers do. We were public facing, we managed budgets, we collected data, produced reports and analysed statistics, we composed newsletters, information documents, presentations and websites. Now all these tasks are done by specialist individuals and teams who are paid much more than a band 2 or 3 or even 4 salary commands.

Those same few admin also shopped around for best price on goods and services before managers decided they would enter into expensive contracts with

Capita for recruitment ( they command £30.00 a day admin fee for temporary workers - heaven knows what they charge for recruiting a permanent post)
Marketplace and Banner for procurement (Banner charges more than twice for core items than we can buy them on Amazon or at Maplin)
INNTEL for all travel bookings (£5.50 admin fee for every booking)

list goes on but i have lost interest.

I am now awaiting the centralisation of my admin post which will be redefined at a lower grade and for which I will have to apply. Then when we are reduced and regraded, the council will outsource us (sell us to the lowest bidder) which means I will not be working at anything like the same conditions. A nearly non existent pension will disappear altogether.

The tales I could tell about waste and money poorly spent would make your toes curl.


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Subject: RE: BS: Council services cuts UK
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 28 Feb 11 - 02:11 PM

I have a feeling too many people were afraid of admitting they didn't understand. I on the other hand don't pretend to understand the workings of politicians.
I am not afraid to state the bleeding obvious though and it is time the central government bods started distributing OUR money properly!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Council services cuts UK
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 28 Feb 11 - 02:18 PM

I don't feel that anyone on the public payroll should be given enormous salaries or mega bonuses. But that doesn't account for this huge deficit. I don't understand it either Miskin Man. If they close our libraries here in Norfolk I'll be heartbroken. And why stop paying lollipop people? Isn't our children's safety important? It's like a terrible nightmare. My late father would have been foaming at the mouth. Where is the Great Britain I knew and loved? It's unrecognisable now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Council services cuts UK
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Feb 11 - 02:43 PM

Anybody who thinks they need more than, say £50,000 a year, is clearly pretty incompetent at managing their own affairs, and shouldn't be trusted to manage anybody else's.

That applies private or public sectors.


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Subject: RE: BS: Council services cuts UK
From: Wolfhound person
Date: 28 Feb 11 - 03:30 PM

Hear,hear, McGrath.

And as for that HSBC w....r who just got given 5 million in bonus! How many deserving poor would that keep in relative comfort for the rest of their lives.

I bet it all comes from struggling mortgage payers, too.


Grrrr....

Paws


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Subject: RE: BS: Council services cuts UK
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 Feb 11 - 05:49 PM

"supermarket signs that shout out ***ONLY £1***.....and folks home in on them, not realising that only a few weeks back those same items were about 80pence..."

Supermarket shelf sign the other day.

Coke - normally $1.99 each
Special 2 for $4.00

...

Of course in Australia, the 1 cent coins are no longer legal tender so legally prices can be rounded up to the nearest 5 cent ....


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Subject: RE: BS: Council services cuts UK
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 Feb 11 - 06:02 PM

"become top heavy with management"

I worked on a floor with approx 100 people.

After the 'reorganization' we had the same number of people, the same amount of work. The top level manager, now of course had to be increased a grade, because he now had more people at higher levels to manage ....

Now we had grades that included "Class 4" and "Class 2/3" (a previous public service wide 'reorganization combined these 2 levels) the 'bottom grade'.

The number of Class 4s doubled (the number of Class 5s etc increased as there were now more Class 4s to 'manage', etc). Each Class 4 now supervised only 2 Class 2/3s - of which there were now fewer, of course. These now new "management positions" were considered to be also 'doing the sort of work that the 2/3s were previously doing, but more efficiently' !!! ... but all the extra 'supervising work' though, meant that the Class 4s actually had less time to do the actual grunt work ...

"I wonder where the money goes" ...


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Subject: RE: BS: Council services cuts UK
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 28 Feb 11 - 06:44 PM

So what can we do about it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Council services cuts UK
From: Leadfingers
Date: 28 Feb 11 - 09:42 PM

What gets RIGHT up MY nose is that (According to ANY Coalition Pratt interviewed on the Beeb) EVERYTHING is the fault of either Gordon Brown ( Victim of the finesty shafting in History) or 'The Previous Administration' !

And who voted Lib Dem and now wishes theyt hadn't ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Council services cuts UK
From: Micca
Date: 28 Feb 11 - 10:55 PM

Terry, to answer your question "Everyone"


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Subject: RE: BS: Council services cuts UK
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 01 Mar 11 - 02:18 AM

Miskin Man

What can we do about it?

We will be demonstrating in Hyde Park on 26 March. We have gotten involved in local TUC.

When we hear of demonstrations outside of tax evading businesses we try to join in.

Write letters to local authority, central government and newspapers about any organisation you think needs a kick up the backside. Give examples of waste, request information regards pay of your council execs and members (ours voted themselves a raise after they froze the cost of living rise to all council employees).

Organise or join groups that are suffering the cuts most. Students, disabled, etc. to leaflet in front of council offices, hospitals, colleges and universities, hospices, care homes.

Grassroots can make things happen, if the government really feels the earth moving beneath it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Council services cuts UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 01 Mar 11 - 02:51 AM

When is the Hyde Park demonstration, Tam?

This is an excellent video and the young man at the beginning of it is speaking so much sense about the corruption that's going on...He also points out that we have a choice. We can accept it, or not...And that decision will affect the future of our children and their children...

Please share it round wherever you are able..

Ordinary People Protest about Barclays


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Subject: RE: BS: Council services cuts UK
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 01 Mar 11 - 03:52 AM

"What gets RIGHT up MY nose is that (According to ANY Coalition Pratt interviewed on the Beeb) EVERYTHING is the fault of either Gordon Brown ( Victim of the finesty shafting in History) or 'The Previous Administration' !

And who voted Lib Dem and now wishes theyt hadn't ?"

I voted LibDem and I shall do so again. What I can't understand is why anyone is still sticking up for Labour. If the Tories are bastards, Labour are hypocritical bastards! Which, so-called 'progressive' party thought that it was OK to get filthy rich and allowed the social divide to become greater than ever before? Which party stood idly by whilst house price inflation raged so out of control that many young people could no longer afford to buy a house? Which party failed to regulate 'casino' banking? Which party eroded our civil liberties to an almost terrifying extent? Which party enveloped everything in a completely irrational, grossly over-complicated, wasteful, box-ticking bureaucracy? And which party took us into an illegal war in which thousands of innocent people died horribly? And which party are still a bunch of smug, doctrinaire autocrats who close their ears to any hint of criticism?


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Subject: RE: BS: Council services cuts UK
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 01 Mar 11 - 05:42 AM

When I started this thread I wondered how soon Party politics would appear. This problem is greater than that, it is about mismanagement on all sides and greed by quite a few.


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Subject: RE: BS: Council services cuts UK
From: banjoman
Date: 01 Mar 11 - 05:43 AM

Blaming the previous lot is an easy way out for this present lot. I have no doubt that after the full effects of the cuts take hold, that messrs Cameron Clegg et al as well as the lot on the oposition benches will still be able to afford to eat and send their children to expensive schools while they keep on telling us that we are all in this together - what a load of S**t.
My wife is currently having to apply for her own job and is threatened with dismissal if she dosn;t accept reduced hours and loss of weekend shift allowance.
I believe that this country could well see major civil unrest and all that that means (look at north africa and how they are dealing with dictators and despots) in the very near future.


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Subject: RE: BS: Council services cuts UK
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 01 Mar 11 - 10:33 AM

Which is probably why David Cameron has shifted his attention to Libya adding his banner waving statements against Gaddafi (all of a sudden).


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Subject: RE: BS: Council services cuts UK
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 01 Mar 11 - 10:33 AM

The original post asked a few interesting questions.

This was followed up by dudes asking where is the money and somebody must have it?

Also a lot here about blaming the last lot.

Well, just to deal with the last bit first. Cameron and Clegg supported Brown's government in how it handled the international crisis that was everybody's or nobody's fault. Easy to blame when as opposition, you let it all through on the nod.

Anybody would think politicians actually made a difference. If they did, it would only encourage them.

Which leads me to the "where is the money" bit.

Mostly, it doesn't actually exist. When a few million are wiped off shares, it is the same as when shares rise. All looks good till you try to turn it into beer tokens. Then you realise it rose falsely and therefore falls falsely. If your house went up in value in the boom but then you sell it now for less than what it was worth in 2007, where is the difference in money? it doesn't exist. Simple. it was a value not beer tokens.

of course, the councils need it in beer token terms as only real money pays wages and funds social infrastructure.

So, stopping councils from spending money is the Osborne lesson 101 economics.

Ok if you changed your name to avoid being seen as posh, but a bit of a bugger if you are living in a care home or need the support of a social worker.

Mind you, the bit about social unrest is hilarious. Comparing the poorest you can be here with the average in any of the Northern African countries just shows naive ignorance laced with greed. You live in The UK so globally, you are lottery winners, just like your neighbour and just like me. Especially me, according to some. (he says, about to jet off skiing for a couple of weeks.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Council services cuts UK
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 01 Mar 11 - 06:27 PM

From my previous post (03:52 AM):

"And which party are still a bunch of smug, doctrinaire autocrats who close their ears to any hint of criticism?"

I note the deafening silence from all you Labour zombies ("I vote Labour because I've always voted Labour - and I let the Party's Leadership do the thinking for me. Oh look the Party's Leadership are torturing babies and tiny defenceless kittens - cover your ears and look away, look away!!!").


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Subject: RE: BS: Council services cuts UK
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 02 Mar 11 - 02:29 AM

We've been Clegged out.

The process of having sold out, especially to a system or body that directly undermines the principles and values you have long adhered to.

Derived from the actions of the leader of the Liberal Democrat party, following the 2010 United Kingdom General Election.

(also: Clegg out, Clegging out)
I just found out that Innocent smoothies have totally Clegged out to Coca-Cola.

What a legacy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Council services cuts UK
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 02 Mar 11 - 02:47 AM

The heart of the problem must be down to the banks lending money they haven't got to people who can't afford to pay it back!

Or to put it another way, if debtors (people who owe money) are greater than creditors (people who are owed money) the result is profit - irrespective of whether or not the debtors will ever have the means to pay what they owe.

So, the lender takes a charge on the debtors' assets in this event, but that depends upon the lender (if the borrower defaults) being able to dispose of the asset for at least what is outstanding on the asset.

to be continued....


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Subject: RE: BS: Council services cuts UK
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 02 Mar 11 - 04:30 AM

"The process of having sold out, especially to a system or body that directly undermines the principles and values you have long adhered to."

You mean like the Labour Party did during their 13 years in power? Can you remember the 'New Dawn' of 1997 and how things subsequently turned out? Or do you prefer to close your eyes, stick your fingers in your ears and go "la, la, la, la, la!"

Remember that if you Labourites succeed in destroying the LibDems we'll end up with a full Tory government. But you'd love that, wouldn't you? Because then you could beat your breasts, be all smug and pious and there'd be lots of poor people for you to agonise over.


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Subject: RE: BS: Council services cuts UK
From: Arnie
Date: 02 Mar 11 - 06:29 AM

To return to the original thread title, this is an excellent opportunity for councils to get rid of pointless non-jobs which seem to have proliferated under the last bunch - especially, but not exclusively in the field of HR. Unfortunately many councils will axe much-needed frontline services in a point-scoring exercise whilst retaining their non-jobs and paying their managers eye-watering salaries that most of us can only dream about. The public will make their feelings known to Gov't more readily if a library is closed down rather than 'outreach workers' or 'walking co-ordinators' losing their jobs.


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Subject: RE: BS: Council services cuts UK
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 02 Mar 11 - 06:39 AM

A good point, Arnie. A bit of economising and 'housekeeping' would be a very good idea, cut out altogether these weird appointments with long and meaningless job descriptions. Stringent 'in house' cuts would do the world of good. But I bet they don't!


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Subject: RE: BS: Council services cuts UK
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 03 Mar 11 - 02:52 AM

well I just had a peek at the Essex County Council savings plan as it relates to employees..

A year ago they offered voluntary redundancy across the middle managers in the hope of an uptake of 264 people.

I think only 60 odd took redundancy (included in te figure is natural wastage, retirements, project contract ends, etc.)

A recent document shows a table of planned redundancies in the next 3 years by Service area. Column headings:
Management
Front line service
Admin support

Guess which has the least planned redundancies. Wish I had copied that document?


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Subject: RE: BS: Council services cuts UK
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 03 Mar 11 - 04:30 AM

Although I heartily agree with pruning all those unnecessary job titles, this is almost a side issue. What is important is maintaining the services that we as rate payers should expect to be provided as part of our contract with the Council.
Economies of staffing are part of the way forward but all round efficiency and a fairer share of the BIG pot of OUR money would go further to solve the problems we seem to face.
I am continually appalled by the grant system where local councils have to use the money available to them within a certain time or they will "lose" it. Also the claim that it is from a different budget and is not available to, for example, keep the toilets open. Who gave them the money? WE BLOODY DID!! It's our money, we should have a say in how it is spent, it seems we can no longer trust our elected officials to make the right decisions.
(OOh I feel better now!)


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Subject: RE: BS: Council services cuts UK
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 03 Mar 11 - 05:06 AM

I wonder if introducing local referenda from time to time would give us a say? I realise it would cost a bit, but as you say, Miskin Man, it's OUR money and I for one would like a chance to indicate what is done with it.


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