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Lyr Req: A Smuggler's Song (Rudyard Kipling)

DigiTrad:
A PRESENT FROM THE GENTLEMEN
ENGLAND HAS TAKEN ME
ENGLAND SWINGS
GENTLEMEN-RANKERS
OAK, ASH, AND THORN
THE BASTARD KING OF ENGLAND
THE FRENCH WARS
THE LADIES
THE SONG OF THE BANJO
THE YOUNG BRITISH SOLDIER
WHEN 'OMER SMOTE 'IS BLOOMIN' LYRE


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jaguar 17 Sep 99 - 06:54 PM
RiGGy 17 Sep 99 - 08:14 PM
Susan A-R 17 Sep 99 - 09:54 PM
wildlone 17 Sep 99 - 10:31 PM
Branwen Cassedy 18 Sep 99 - 05:23 PM
Penny S. 18 Sep 99 - 06:19 PM
Pelrad 18 Sep 99 - 09:17 PM
Penny S. 19 Sep 99 - 09:58 AM
lamarca 19 Sep 99 - 10:46 PM
jaguar 19 Sep 99 - 11:16 PM
Charley Noble 07 Jul 12 - 10:59 AM
MGM·Lion 07 Jul 12 - 12:41 PM
Joe_F 07 Jul 12 - 03:10 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 07 Jul 12 - 03:58 PM
GUEST,georgeminogue 27 Dec 12 - 04:01 AM
GUEST,Blandiver 27 Dec 12 - 04:31 AM
Nigel Parsons 27 Dec 12 - 06:23 AM
MGM·Lion 27 Dec 12 - 07:33 AM
MGM·Lion 27 Dec 12 - 07:35 AM
Nigel Parsons 27 Dec 12 - 08:21 AM
MGM·Lion 27 Dec 12 - 09:03 AM
Steve Parkes 27 Dec 12 - 09:18 AM
MGM·Lion 27 Dec 12 - 09:33 AM
Nigel Parsons 27 Dec 12 - 10:10 AM
SINSULL 27 Dec 12 - 12:52 PM
MGM·Lion 27 Dec 12 - 01:13 PM
MGM·Lion 27 Dec 12 - 01:22 PM
GUEST,Blandiver 27 Dec 12 - 01:37 PM
Crane Driver 27 Dec 12 - 03:32 PM
Steve Parkes 28 Dec 12 - 05:55 AM
MGM·Lion 28 Dec 12 - 06:55 AM
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Subject: Smuggler's Song
From: jaguar
Date: 17 Sep 99 - 06:54 PM

Got a copy of this song from a friend of mine, but it's a bit fast paced for me to try and figure out all the words, there's a few missing here and there. Anyone care to give it a try, or at least a variation? Chorus goes "Five and twenty ponies trotting in the dark / Brandy for the parson and 'baccy for the clerk / Laces for a lady and letters for a spy / And watch the wall my darling while the gentlemen go by"


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Smuggler's Song
From: RiGGy
Date: 17 Sep 99 - 08:14 PM

Rudyard's Gem

http://www.poetryloverspage.com/poets/kipling/smugglers_song.html

I like the tune that Carl Hogsden & Jane Threllfall do.

RiGGy


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Smuggler's Song
From: Susan A-R
Date: 17 Sep 99 - 09:54 PM

I like Cindy Mangsen (sp?)s rendition of this one. 'Believe that it's a Martin Carthy tune.

Susan A-R


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Smuggler's Song
From: wildlone
Date: 17 Sep 99 - 10:31 PM

I hav'nt got a copy but Peter Bellamy set alot of Rudyard Kipling songs to music. try www.sarcon.demon.co.uk/engfolk Which brings us to--- Do you like Kipling?----do'nt know never tried it.


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Subject: Lyr Add: A SMUGGLER'S SONG (Rudyard Kipling)
From: Branwen Cassedy
Date: 18 Sep 99 - 05:23 PM

A SMUGGLER'S SONG
(Rudyard Kipling)

If you wake at midnight and hear a horse's feet,
Don't go drawing back the blinds, nor looking in the street.
Them that asks no questions isn't told a lie,
And watch the wall, my darling, while the gentlemen go by.

CHORUS: Five and twenty ponies trotting through the dark,
Brandy for the parson and baccy for the clark.
Laces for a lady, and letters for a spy,
And watch the wall, my darling while the gentlemen go by.

Running 'round the woodlands, if you chance to find
Little barrels, roped and tied, all full of brandywine,
Well, don't you shout to come and look, nor use them for your play,
Just put the brushwood back again and they'll be gone next day.

If you see a stable door setting open wide,
And if you see a tired horse a'lying down inside,
And if your mother mends a coat what's cut about and torn,
And if the lining's wet and warm, well, don't you ask no more. CHORUS.

If you meet the King's men, dressed in blue and red,
You be mindful what you say and mindful what is said.
And if they call you "pretty maid" and chuck you 'neath your chin,
Well, don't you tell where no one is, nor yet where no one's been.

Knocks and footsteps 'round the house, whistles after dark.
You've no call for running out until the housedogs bark.
For Trusty's here and Pinch is here and see how dumb they lie,
They don't fret to follow when the gentlemen go by. CHORUS.

If you do as you've been told, likely there's a chance
You'll be give a dainty doll that's all the way from France,
With a cap of Alyentsins and a velvet hood,
A present from the gentlemen, no longer being good.

Five and twenty ponies trotting through the dark,
Brandy for the parson and baccy for the clark.
Them what asks no questions isn't told a lie,
And watch the wall, my darling, while the gentlemen go by.


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Subject: Lyr Add: A SMUGGLER'S SONG (Rudyard Kipling)
From: Penny S.
Date: 18 Sep 99 - 06:19 PM

The version I learned for my Speech and Drama exam was slightly different, and I've just checked in my Definitive verse.

If you wake at midnight and hear a horse's feet,
Don't go drawing back the blind, or looking in the street.
Them that asks no questions isn't told a lie,
Watch the wall, my darling, while the Gentlemen go by.

Chorus: Five and twenty ponies
trotting through the dark,
Brandy for the Parson,
'Baccy for the Clerk.
Laces for a lady,
Letters for a spy,
And watch the wall, my darling, while the Gentlemen go by.

Running round the woodlump if you chance to find
Little barrels, roped and tarred, all full of brandy-wine,
Don't you shout to come and look, nor use 'em for your play,.
Put the brishwood back again -- and they'll be gone next day!

If you see a stable-door setting open wide;
If you see a tired horse lying down inside;
If your mother mends a coat cut about and tore;
If the lining's wet and warm -- don't you ask no more!

Chorus.

If you meet King George's men, dressed in blue and red,
You be careful what you say, and mindful what is said.
If they call you "pretty maid", and chuck you 'neath the chin,
Don't you tell where no one is, nor yet where no one's been.

Knocks and footsteps 'round the house -- whistles after dark.
You've no call for running out till the housedogs bark.
Trusty's here and Pincher's here and see how dumb they lie --
They don't fret to follow when the Gentlemen go by.

Chorus.

If you do as you've been told, 'likely there's a chance
You'll be give a dainty doll, all the way from France,
With a cap of Valenciennes, and a velvet hood ---
A present from the Gentlemen, Along o' being good!

Five and twenty ponies
trotting through the dark,
Brandy for the Parson,
'Baccy for the Clerk.
Them that asks no questions isn't told a lie,
Watch the wall, my darling, while the Gentlemen go by.
^^
Penny


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Smuggler's Song
From: Pelrad
Date: 18 Sep 99 - 09:17 PM

Tony Barrand and John Roberts also do this one, without using the first verse as a chorus, on their album "A Present From the Gentlemen." Johnny Collins sings it as well, using the chorus, but I don't think he has recorded it.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Smuggler's Song
From: Penny S.
Date: 19 Sep 99 - 09:58 AM

Pelrad, I think you are closer than I was, 'cos I left the reference to "chorus" in, and Kipling only has it after the first and last verse. He often does this, which seems odd in the poems which seem to be songs, and demand a chorus to each verse. I've wondered if this was actually a sort of shorthand.

Penny


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Smuggler's Song
From: lamarca
Date: 19 Sep 99 - 10:46 PM

This is one of the many fine musical settings of Kipling's poems by the late Peter Bellamy. The poem itself is from Kipling's Puck of Pook's Hill, a collection of stories in which Puck transports children to different times in English history. Smuggler's Song came after a story called "Dymchurch Flit". In the poem, Kipling sets off the "Five and twenty ponies" verse as though it should be a chorus; Peter Bellamy didn't use it that way. My husband and I learned it from Barrand and Roberts at Augusta one year, and decided it needed to be a chorus song, so we changed the words back to those of the original poem (John and Tony had morphed them a bit) and put the chorus in after every two verses - just like PennyS and Branwen typed it out. I guess great minds think alike...

As an aside, I decided to learn the song because a tacky historical romance about smugglers in the Napoleonic era by Joan Aiken Hodge that I loved as a teenager was titled Watch the Wall, My Darling...


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Smuggler's Song
From: jaguar
Date: 19 Sep 99 - 11:16 PM

Mmmm, yes, I do like Kipling, though I didn't know that was who THAT was.. I suppose it does sound like him, now that I think about it. Thanks, guys :)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A Smuggler's Song (Rudyard Kipling)
From: Charley Noble
Date: 07 Jul 12 - 10:59 AM

refresh!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A Smuggler's Song (Rudyard Kipling)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 Jul 12 - 12:41 PM

Nobody has mentioned that the tune Peter Bellamy used for these words was based on The White Cockade.

~Michael~


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A Smuggler's Song (Rudyard Kipling)
From: Joe_F
Date: 07 Jul 12 - 03:10 PM

Michael Flanders & Donald Swann, in their song "Bedstead Men", have the line "So watch the wall, my darlings, while the bedstead men go by", which is clearly an allusion to this song. They sing it to a tune other than that of "Bedstead Men" which I infer is probably that of a setting of "A Smuggler's Song" that would have been familiar to British adults in the late '50s. I have never heard it, tho.

As I have often lamented, the many tunes composed for Kipling's songs during the music-hall era seem to have become inaccessible.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A Smuggler's Song (Rudyard Kipling)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Jul 12 - 03:58 PM

Reminds me of experiences in Peterhead (Scotland), years ago, before the oil discoveries.

Some nice bargains on the fishing boats. My wife got a beautiful Swedish sweater at half the usual shop price. I got some French- well, the price was right.

Ask no questions-


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A Smuggler's Song (Rudyard Kipling)
From: GUEST,georgeminogue
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 04:01 AM


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A Smuggler's Song (Rudyard Kipling)
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 04:31 AM

I knew this one long before I heard the Bellamy setting. Classic stuff!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZmO3oRsSoU


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A Smuggler's Song (Rudyard Kipling)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 06:23 AM

With very slight bending of the scansion, it can be done nicely to Noel Nouvelet, a Christmas carol which seems to have a nice 'trotting' gait.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A Smuggler's Song (Rudyard Kipling)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 07:33 AM

The Peter Dawson version linked on UTube by Sean above has the credit "Words & Music by Rudyard Kipling". Surely not right? RK not known as a composer was he? No mention in his wiki entry ~~ or can anybody show different?

Tho I think there is probably much to commend in Peter B's contention that he knew a bit about folksongs [there is a mention of a 'Copper' in one of his Sussex-set stories in Rewards & Fairies]; hence his [Pete's] having set this song to The White Cockade, & others in his Kipling records to other traditional airs ~~ Derwentwater's Farewell for Danny Deever, Amphitryte/Van·Diemans·Land for Henry & the Shipwrights...

~M~


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A Smuggler's Song (Rudyard Kipling)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 07:35 AM

Bit left out at end of above entry ~~

... so that he might well have had a tune in his head when he wrote a poem in ballad or other folk-style metre, such as the above.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A Smuggler's Song (Rudyard Kipling)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 08:21 AM

The presence of two volumes of "Barrack Room Ballads & other verses" would suggest that Kipling aimed at having these sung, even if he did not provide the tunes.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A Smuggler's Song (Rudyard Kipling)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 09:03 AM

Can't see quite how the presence of two volumes with that title would 'suggest' any such thing, Nigel. On what evidence would they so suggest? Surely if he had wanted them sung, RK would have said so, in an intro or a note or somewhere. I do think he might have written them with tunes in his head to give them the sort of rhythm & lilt he was aiming for in calling them 'ballads' {though, more prosaically, he might of course simply have chosen the word 'ballads' in the title for its alliterative effect with Barrack-room}. But where is any evidence to suggest he 'aimed at having them sung'? And by whom? Do you honestly think he envisaged barrackrooms full of squaddies giving voice to them, in unison or harmony?

~M~


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A Smuggler's Song (Rudyard Kipling)
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 09:18 AM

I heard from an RK enthusiast (no longer with us) that Kipling was up-to-date with contemporary popular sings, and would often have a well-known tune in his head when writing. his scansion was usually good enough to allow his stuff to be sung; if you don't think squaddies enjoy eda good sing-song, I think you're mistaken! They still do, to my knowledge, and not exclusively songs you couldn't sing at a christening, as my ex-army uncle puts it.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A Smuggler's Song (Rudyard Kipling)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 09:33 AM

Steve ~~ You ever been in the army? I have. Can recall quite a lot of singing at various times; esp in basic training when bulling up the barrackroom for CO's weekly inspection; and, later, on Mess Nights.   But any song like Danny Deever or Gunga Din or The Widow At Windsor ~~ I think not. I say again, if that was what he was aiming for, RK would have said so; and specified the tunes he had in mind to use, for that matter. He was not a J D Salinger style mystifier.

~M~


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A Smuggler's Song (Rudyard Kipling)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 10:10 AM

allad:
1.
a. A narrative poem, often of folk origin and intended to be sung, consisting of simple stanzas and usually having a refrain.
b. The music for such a poem.
2. A popular song especially of a romantic or sentimental nature.
from The Free Dictionary

1.
any light, simple song, especially one of sentimental or romantic character, having two or more stanzas all sung to the same melody.
2.
a simple narrative poem of folk origin, composed in short stanzas and adapted for singing.
3.
any poem written in similar style.
4.
the music for a ballad.
5.
a sentimental or romantic popular song.
from Dictionary.com

1
a : a narrative composition in rhythmic verse suitable for singing
b : an art song accompanying a traditional ballad
2
: a simple song : air
3
: a popular song; especially : a slow romantic or sentimental song
from Merriam Webster

It seems that the word 'Ballad' is generally accepted as meaning a verse form intended for singing. On the basis that Kipling had a good knowledge of the english language I base my comment that "The presence of two volumes of 'Barrack Room Ballads & Other Verses' would suggest that Kipling aimed at having these sung."


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A Smuggler's Song (Rudyard Kipling)
From: SINSULL
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 12:52 PM

Sussex Carol and Andrew have recorded this one. Worth buying their CD if it is still available.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A Smuggler's Song (Rudyard Kipling)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 01:13 PM

Sorry, Nigel: but ref to those online dictionaries does not disguise your ignorance of literary history. Works which have included the word ballad in their titles without any reference to intention of singing are legion. I would predominantly point you towards {wiki}

Lyrical Ballads, with a Few Other Poems is a collection of poems by William Wordsworth and Samuel Taylor Coleridge, first published in 1798 and generally considered to have marked the beginning of the English Romantic movement in literature. The immediate effect on critics was modest, but it became and remains a landmark, changing the course of English literature and poetry. Most of the poems in the 1798 edition were written by Wordsworth, with Coleridge contributing only four poems to the collection, including one of his most famous works, "The Rime of the Ancient Mariner"

Let's hear you have a good go at singing "The Ancient Mariner", then. To say nothing of Wordworth's

Old Man Traveling; Animal Tranquillity and Decay, a Sketch
The Complaint of a forsaken Indian Woman
The Last of the Flock
Lines left upon a Seat in a Yew-tree which stands near the Lake of Esthwaite
The Foster-Mother's Tale↑
Goody Blake and Harry Gill
The Thorn
We are Seven
Anecdote for Fathers
Lines written at a small distance from my House and sent me by my little Boy to the Person to whom they are addressed


And I hope it keeps fine for you.

~M~


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A Smuggler's Song (Rudyard Kipling)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 01:22 PM

And a couple more examples

The Bab Ballads are a collection of light verse by W. S. Gilbert, illustrated with his own comic drawings...The Ballads were read aloud at private dinner-parties, public banquets and even in the House of Lords.

Rossetti's Ballads and Sonnets and Poems (1881)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A Smuggler's Song (Rudyard Kipling)
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 01:37 PM

My grandfather had a lot of Kipling's Barrack Room Ballads from his time in the army in India. I remember his reciting several from memory, but never singing them. I played him the Bellamy version of Gunga Dun once, explaining the Bellamy Kipling-Folksong Thesis, but he wasn't impressed; less impressed with Mandalay being set to Keep Your Feet Still Geordie Hinny, which he did used to sing.

I reckon Bellamy was forcing a point about the general significance of this - seeing Folk Song as a hermetically sealed genre, as has been The Revival Way for ober 100 years now (but was rarely the case with Traditional Singers). His best settings were when he got rid of actual folk tunes and created his own in The Traditional Idiom.

*

I have any amount of old ballad books which freely mix your Childish (or should that be Childlike?) Traditional Ballads and narrative verse by the poets of the time, Kipling included.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A Smuggler's Song (Rudyard Kipling)
From: Crane Driver
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 03:32 PM

Thanks for the plug, SINSULL

There are indeed some copies of the CD (Characters) still available, and you can hear a sound clip of our version on the website Crane Drivin' Music, which is where you can get the CD too

The tune we use is one commonly encountered in Sussex, apparently written by a schoolteacher from Suffolk to help his pupils learn the poem. We took the rhythm from the trotting of wild ponies on the Gower peninsula

Gower, like Sussex, had a flourishing smuggler trade, and many old stories about the 'gentlemen' and their encounters with the revenue

Whatever the original intention, it makes a good song

Andrew


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A Smuggler's Song (Rudyard Kipling)
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 28 Dec 12 - 05:55 AM

~M~, I was never in the army (though I have been associated with a rugby club in my mis-spent youth), and I take your point. But in the days before radio & gramophones, reciting was very popular amongst us lower orders. G R Sims is remembered today (if at all) for In the workhouse, Christmas Day, but he wrote absolute reams of other stuff, some of it rather humorous; he spoke of an occasion when a coster's lad, or some similar oik, asked his permission to do one of his works in his presence. From all appearances, it was a popular form of entertainment. Think of those clever chaps who can recite that business about the comical zoo, or all the verses to Eskimo Nell.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A Smuggler's Song (Rudyard Kipling)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Dec 12 - 06:55 AM

I think I could once recite all the verses to E Nell, Steve. When men grow old ~~~ don't get me started!

Actually, it wasn't only 'disobliging' songs that would get sung in barrackrooms or mess nights, tho mainly. Lots of semipop/campfire "Quartermasters Stores" &c kind of stuff. But, really, not Kipling BRBs!

~M~


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