Peter Bellamy Kipling documentary

Subject: Peter Bellamy Kipling documentary
From: GUEST,Barney_S
Date: 24 Apr 15 - 07:40 AM

Hi there, just been reading up on Peter Bellamy and discovered that he made a four-part series for Australian radio about Rudyard Kipling in the early 80s. Can anyone furnish me with any more info on this, or better still point me towards a recording?

Thanks in advance


Barney

Subject: RE: Peter Bellamy Kipling documentary
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 24 Apr 15 - 10:20 AM

No.

But tell us more of what you HAVE discovered! :)

Also, have you asked at the Kipling Society ?

Subject: RE: Peter Bellamy Kipling documentary
From: maeve
Date: 24 Apr 15 - 10:38 AM

Mentioned by a Mudcatter, here: https://soundcloud.com/sedayne-fiddlesangs/the-glass-on-the-bar

Described as having four parts, here:
The Sydney Morning Herald - May 28, 1984

That's all I have time for right now.

Subject: RE: Peter Bellamy Kipling documentary
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Apr 15 - 11:23 AM

Cheers both, will investigate further. It was mentioned (and uploaded) on the Chiff and Fipple forum, but the links are long dead. Speaking of which, here's Kenneth Cranham's 2006 radio special on the Barrack Room Ballads: https://www.sendspace.com/file/xgvxk3

Radio Times write-up here: http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/d42fe7b3e5bd4792b06e6e86e4909a2e

Subject: RE: Peter Bellamy Kipling documentary
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 24 Apr 15 - 11:43 AM

Gosh maeve -do you give googling lessons!?

I notice it is listed on the kiplingsociety.co.uk pg 37
Interviews Folk Songs of Rudyard Kipling, 'Sunday Folk' programme, ABC-FM, Adelaide, Australia, September 1981


And there is an abc archives contact page

Subject: RE: Peter Bellamy Kipling documentary
From: maeve
Date: 24 Apr 15 - 11:45 AM

It's fun to find these gems, eh?

I'd love to see the programs.

Subject: RE: Peter Bellamy Kipling documentary
From: GUEST,Blandiver (Sedayne)
Date: 24 Apr 15 - 11:51 AM

I thing I still have them somewhere - God knows where though...   I'll have a root about & let you know if anything turns up. Otherwise I'll ask Ross Campbell, who's a more diligent archivist than I am when it does to these things...

Subject: RE: Peter Bellamy Kipling documentary
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 24 Apr 15 - 05:04 PM

You guys could also ask Warren Fahey ... ?

Subject: RE: Peter Bellamy Kipling documentary
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 24 Apr 15 - 05:19 PM

Chiff and Fipple

http://forums.chiffandfipple.com/viewtopic.php?t=70885

Forum: The Chiff and Fipple Poststructural Pub   

Topic: Peter Bellamy with a Clark [tin whistle]

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s1m0n        

Martin Carthy's obit/tribute for PB, via the beeb:
http://rapidshare.com/files/271152040/PB_obit.rar
My source says this was Jan 29, 1982, but I think it must be 92. He died on 24 September 1991.

http://rapidshare.com/files/270711489/PB_Intv_1981.rar
A hour long interview with PB on australian radio, 1980 or 81

Four-part radio documentary/interview featuring PB talking about Kipling and his Kipling project*. Also Australian.

http://rapidshare.com/files/270451208/PB_Kip_1_of_4.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/270473352/PB_Kip_2_of_4.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/270498107/PB_Kip_3_of_4.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/270519154/PB_Kip_4_of_4.rar

I haven't heard any of these yet, but I'm eager to.

*Peter Bellamy recorded three LPs of Rudyard Kipling poems set to music; either english folk standards (Kipling's house in england was in the village of Rottingdean, where generations of the Copper family have been singing their unique book of songs since at least the later 19th century.) His first collection consisted of songs from Puck of Pook's Hill, and he went on to also record poems from Barrack Room Ballads.

It was Bellamy's quite plausible theory that certain of Kipling's metrical verse rollicked so successfully that it might well have been composed (as other poets are known to have done) by being set to some well-known tune.

As a warning, however, be aware that his singing style was brilliant but not unchallenging. Some people get scared right off. Ballamy was trying to reproduce the excitement and energy of the Rolling Stones (seriously!) while singing english traditional song either unaccompanied or with his black, proto-punk concertina. His work is nothing at all like folk-rock, however.

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Sadly Rapidshare closed down a few months ago.

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Subject: RE: Peter Bellamy Kipling documentary
From: Hagman
Date: 24 Apr 15 - 06:45 PM

This was indeed a wonderful series. I happened to have my finger very close to the Record button of my Revox for every episode. Happy to take PMs from those with more than a passing interest.

Subject: RE: Peter Bellamy Kipling documentary
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 06:16 PM

Folk on 2 - Peter Bellamy obit. - Martin Carthy

29 January 1992 20.00

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/search/0/20?adv=0&q=peter+bellamy+martin+carthy#search

Folk on 2 - Peter Bellamy obit. by Martin Carthy

Jim Lloyd with Folk on 2 Peter Bellamy was one of the great interpreters of the English singing tradition.

Martin Carthy looks back at a career spanning "The Young Tradition", the ballad opera The Transports and Peter Bellamy's imaginative settings for the poems of Rudyard Kipling.

Producer Geoffrey Hewitt

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Features Seamus Ennis / Sam Larner

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Subject: RE: Peter Bellamy Kipling documentary
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Apr 15 - 01:01 PM

Tribute to Peter Bellamy from Radio Sussex:

Radio_Sussex_-_Peter_Bellamy_Tribute_-_2009

More to come ...

Subject: RE: Peter Bellamy Kipling documentary
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 27 Apr 15 - 10:18 PM

Well!

Peter would be laughing his bit that pleases the lasses off.

So he produces something really worthwhile, gets the usual folk performer's fee of folk all and some smart geek purloins the copyright and makes a (albeit small) fortune.

No wonder he decided it was not worth the effort.

A great talent, totally underated, but what great memories for those of us who knew him well.

Subject: RE: Peter Bellamy Kipling documentary
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 28 Apr 15 - 02:51 PM

There's an interesting interview with Peter Bellamy including some songs on YouTube:

Peter Bellamy - Part 1

Peter Bellamy - Part 2

Peter Bellamy - Part 3

These clips can be downloaded and kept using a YouTube Downloader.

Subject: RE: Peter Bellamy Kipling documentary
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 28 Apr 15 - 03:00 PM

And for a real treat see:

Maritime Suite

Enjoy!!

Subject: RE: Peter Bellamy Kipling documentary
From: GUEST,Blandiver (Astray)
Date: 28 Apr 15 - 03:20 PM

Pretty shit quality on those YouTube clips - but, lacking direct means of uploading the old VHS, I filmed them straight from the TV screen. Mind you, the quality of the VHS is just as shit as you see & hear here - so it's no great loss. There's a comment on there from someone who was involved in the original filming, otherwise - who knows where a better quality copy might turn up? Likewise the badly edited Sea Song section which offers TANTALISING glimpses of PB in full flight with DOLLY COLLINS (piano) URSULA PANK (nee SMITH) (cello) CHRIS BIRCH (violin) ANTHEA BELLAMY (voice). I'd love to see more of this in HD on an official DVD or Blu-Ray. Buy in a flash - but what are the chances of that ever happening, huh??

And what ever became of the official release of The Maritime England Suite?????

Bellamy was the greatest voice in The Folk Revival. He deserves better than this, he really does...

Subject: RE: Peter Bellamy Kipling documentary
From: GUEST,Susie
Date: 28 Apr 15 - 04:32 PM

The Village Quire are using Dave Newell's arrangement of the Kipling / Bellamy "My Boy Jack" in the autumn-launched "Back to the Garden".

Subject: RE: Peter Bellamy Kipling documentary
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 28 Apr 15 - 05:33 PM

Re: the YouTube version of "Maritime Suite" (link above)

Not sure if the upload came from a cassette as sold by PB at gigs "don't tell the record company" or the FLAC version doing the rounds on the web. Google around - the latter is out there.

I understood that there were moves to release this Suite a few years ago. Indeed the launch was mooted to be hosted by the National Maritime Museum at Greenwich on board the JST's Lord Nelson tallship. Sadly nothing came of it - the record company involved apparently cried off - I understand this was due thinking that there would not be a market to cover the costs involved in such a release.

Shame indeed.

Subject: RE: Peter Bellamy Kipling documentary
From: GUEST,Blandiver (Astray)
Date: 28 Apr 15 - 06:08 PM

The upload on YouTube is from the Bellamy Cassette - it chews in & cuts out before the end in fine old style, a bit like his life really...

The other versions mentioned in the MES Thread (see link in my post above) are of better quality (as far as I recall) but one of them lacks a prelude.

Thus it hovers in the liminal hinterland of the never-never, the forgotten classic that never quite was but that many feel (myself included) represents his finest work. Someone has lately commented (on YouTube) that it isn't Folk, rather that it's serious classical music. I've just posted this by way of reply:

Classical music? No. It's Peter Bellamy doing things in his idiosyncratic & idiomatically traditional way with a little help from his friends, Dolly Collins especially, so saying it isn't folk is to miss the point of just what Bellamy (and Collins) thought was folk. I agree that it's his best work (along with Keep on Kipling), and I agree it's criminal that it hasn't been officially released, though there was talk a few years back. There was a couple better quality recordings doing the rounds, but this is the cassette he used to sell at his concerts, so there's a poignancy seeing it here. What would PB have made of YouTube? A consummate eclectic archivist, he would have been a pig in shit for sure. Let The China Clipper be his epitaph...

And the cargo that she carried, ah, it was not China tea,
She took with her all the wonder and the romance of the sea...

Subject: RE: Peter Bellamy Kipling documentary
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 28 Apr 15 - 08:19 PM

Let's keep this alive.

Never know we might eventually find something worthwhile.

Subject: RE: Peter Bellamy Kipling documentary
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 29 Apr 15 - 04:48 AM

I looked into the possibility of a reissue of MES when I was doing Folk Police. Even though they no longer have the tapes, the Beeb still wanted payment of a licensing fee for the release to go ahead - a reasonable stipulation, I suppose, as it was their broadcast in the first place. The initial amount quoted was fairly affordable until they realised it was a whole suite of songs rather than one piece, and at that point it went up to a price that would have needed considerable sales for a very niche release to make it viable. The other issue was the absence of a master tape - the version that had been taped off the radio that was doing the rounds at the time was the best available, which would have probably been ok for committed Bellamists, but probably wouldn't have helped in the quest of attracting sales beyond this hallowed circle. Meanwhile, it turned out that Fellside kind of had first dibs, given their historical relationship with Bellamy and their programme of Bellamy releases - at the time it appeared that an MES release may have been on the cards at some point, and I got the impression they were in possession of a decent quality master of some sort - though I may have remembered this wrong. Paul at Fellside would probably be able to confirm this or otherwise.

Hope this helps.

If a link has not already been posted by someone, I have the Australian four-parter as digital files. I'll pop it on Rapidshare at some point if people want a copy.

Subject: RE: Peter Bellamy Kipling documentary
From: Hagman
Date: 29 Apr 15 - 05:47 AM

My links are up and running on Dropbox and Mediafire, if any others care for.... a quick PM and you're away.

Subject: RE: Peter Bellamy Kipling documentary
From: GUEST,Bandiver (Astray)
Date: 29 Apr 15 - 02:13 PM

Cheers, Spleen. I think my own And what ever became of the official release of The Maritime England Suite????? enquiry was mostly rhetorical.

Subject: RE: Peter Bellamy Kipling documentary
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 30 Apr 15 - 07:01 AM

Subject: RE: Peter Bellamy Kipling documentary
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe - PM
Date: 29 Apr 15 - 04:48 AM

"If a link has not already been posted by someone, I have the Australian four-parter as digital files. I'll pop it on Rapidshare at some point if people want a copy."

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Sadly Rapidshare has been closed down by its owners.

Also too Firedrive went months ago taking all private files with it. I heard that they were continuing to take payment for premium accounts from members credit cards for some time afterwards.

Dropbox is still viable - but be aware that there is a major technical issue re: uploads and downloads which they wont admit to. This is that the integrity of uploads and downloads is not verified using checksums. Frequently I've experienced corruptions and truncated files especially with large files. Also uploads are not re-startable. And you need a rock steady broadband connection.

Mediafire seems to be the best. It does verify uploaded files using checksums. And uploads are re-startable. It still needs a rock steady broadband connection.

Some folks use Amazon Cloud - which seems to be reliable.

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Subject: RE: Peter Bellamy Kipling documentary
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 30 Apr 15 - 11:35 AM

Subject: RE: Peter Bellamy Kipling documentary
From: Hagman - PM
Date: 29 Apr 15 - 05:47 AM

My links are up and running on Dropbox and Mediafire, if any others care for.... a quick PM and you're away.

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Brilliant - thank you very much indeed - CJB.

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Subject: RE: Peter Bellamy Kipling documentary
From: keberoxu
Date: 15 Feb 16 - 04:57 PM

Well, this isn't about the documentary per se, but a repertory question.

I have been to the invaluable website, mainlynorfolk dot info. Lots of info, indeed, and I will visit again. One song has little or no info, though, and it's a Kipling setting.

"Soldiers Three" opens with something called "Two by Two".   What is it? This song does not have a page of its own, as the rest of the songs have.

Is this Kipling's "My Lord the Elephant" about watch out for the elephant treading on your toes? Because it has some two-by-two parody lines in it.

Or is it not "My Lord the Elephant" but a different Kipling poem altogether? Many thanks.

Subject: RE: Peter Bellamy Kipling documentary
From: Reinhard
Date: 16 Feb 16 - 01:04 PM

Keberoxu, Mainly Norfolk ist my website (named after Peter Bellamy's first solo album).

Sorry but I don't have the "Soldiers Three" cassette and haver never heard "Two by Two" yet, so I couldn't put the lyrics online.

Subject: "Two by Two" from "Soldiers Three"
From: keberoxu
Date: 16 Feb 16 - 01:16 PM

The website for the Kipling Society has a list of musical settings of Kipling's poems, indexed in alphabetical order; the list does not tell you everything, but it is a starting place.

For Peter Bellamy's "Two by Two", the Kipling Society list gives a single line of verse, " 'Less you want your toes trod off." It does not give the title that Kipling himself gave to the text.

That line about toes strongly points to "My Lord the Elephant" from the Barrack-Room Ballads, even though the Society list does not say as much.

Subject: RE: Peter Bellamy Kipling documentary
From: Speedwell
Date: 24 Feb 16 - 12:24 PM

It's good to see Mr. Bellamy getting a mention on Mudcat again.
As a Bellamist myself, but perhaps not the best informed one, I wonder if there exists any official Bellamy circle of enthusiasts?
If so I'd be obliged if anyone could give me further information.

Subject: RE: Peter Bellamy Kipling documentary
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 24 Feb 16 - 07:51 PM

Speedwell " I wonder if there exists any official Bellamy circle of enthusiasts? "

Are you starting one? Here are some enthusiastic Mutcatters for starters
Mudcat : Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)

Subject: RE: Peter Bellamy Kipling documentary
From: Hagman
Date: 25 Feb 16 - 04:39 AM

"Two by Two" on the "Soldiers Three" cassette is the following Kipling poem:

Many Inventions

'Less you want your toes trod of you'd better get back at once,
For the bullocks are walking two by two,
The byles are walking two by two,
And the elephants bring the guns.
Ho! Yuss!
Great-big-long-black-forty-pounder guns.
Jiggery-jolty to and fro,
Each as big as a launch in tow --
Blind-dumb-broad-breeched--beggars o' battering-guns!

Sung solo by PB, and segues into "The Widow at Windsor," with fiddle and pipe drone.

Mudcatters who would like to "preview" the tape digitally are urged to approach their PM button and ask....

A "circle of Bellamy enthusiasts"? Include me in.

Subject: RE: Peter Bellamy Kipling documentary
From: GUEST,DaveRo
Date: 25 Feb 16 - 05:16 AM

These_notes suggest that 'byles' was the Hindustani word for bullocks. Which would make the second line mean the same as the first, so I suspect there's a difference. I presume these bullocks and byles are pulling ammunition carts, or smaller guns.

(Another Bellamy enthusiast.)

Subject: RE: Peter Bellamy Kipling documentary
From: Speedwell
Date: 09 Mar 16 - 10:04 AM

Sorry this has drifted off thread from the documentary enquiry.
If people wanted to start a Bellamy group what would be a good title?
I thought of COBE Circle Of Bellamy Enthusiasts as that seems to be what emerged from Hagman's mention.
Any thoughts?

Subject: RE: Peter Bellamy Kipling documentary
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 09 Mar 16 - 10:40 AM

Bellamist League of Ecstatic Avant-Traditionalists (BLEAT).

Subject: RE: Peter Bellamy Kipling documentary
From: Speedwell
Date: 11 Mar 16 - 10:59 AM

Thanx for that thought SC.