BS: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?

Subject: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 May 11 - 05:26 AM

http://planetpmc.blogspot.com/2011/05/dig-trenches-for-britain-davis-tells.html

David Davis wants to use the unemployed and those on benefits (what, even DLA?) to dig trenches...

I think they do this to discover if they can reach the stage where words fail me.

Subject: RE: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 19 May 11 - 07:01 AM

IF they were going to pay AT LEAST the Minimum Wage , that might be a viable option !!
Whats the betting they would want it to be a condition of still having whatever small benefit you already have ?

Subject: RE: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 May 11 - 07:40 AM

Nolo contendere!

Subject: RE: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 19 May 11 - 07:43 AM

Don't be absurd M'Unlearned friend.

They don't do anything to get you to the stage where words fail you. Mainly because they don't know you, and if they did would dismiss your take on life out of hand.

I am all for schemes that people can, voluntarily, be part of, especially in order to be doing something and keeping dignity up. It will always be an emotive discussion I know, but for every person who doesn't want to work, there are people who do and the cost, if based on minimum pay is not going to break the bank, especially as a large percentage comes back as VAT and duty.

However, if Leadfinger's prediction comes true, then you run the risk of demanding that those unfortunate to be out of work are seen to be chastised for being so.

Mind you, doling out jobs based on maintaining society infrastructure has its modern day origins in socialist states, not conservative ones. So the term conservative labour camps may be a nice play on words but I doubt it is a feature of any political dogma here...

Stop carrying those crosses, they don't suit you. Stick to conveyencing.

Subject: RE: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 May 11 - 07:53 AM

There are times when I miss 'The Shambles'. At least his rants tended to be about music.

And yes, BS

Subject: RE: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 19 May 11 - 08:22 AM

The Condem governments sole intent since entering office (through the back door aptly) has been to demonise the poorest sections of society, namely the unemployed, the aged, the long term sick, and worst of all considering the P.M had a disabled son, the disabled. They are being made to pay by far the most for the Bankers and the seriously rich who contributed most to the economic crisis, and sare being asked virtually nothing in return. this demonization is as real and bad as any kind of racism or homophobia, the poor have become 'IT' as the new ISM to be hated by the ignorant. Fact is sickness and Disablement benefits have become near impossible to claimn.
As a member of N.A.C.A.B I was part of a group that send evidence to an all party Commons Committe 16 years ago on the hated ability for all work test. That was found to be 'unfair' and 'seriously flawed' at the time. But in my judgement and NACAB's that same test now is at least TWICE as bad, I personally class it as highly unfair and offensive to claimants.
Despite Condem and what you see om the media, benefit fraud dropped dramatically under the last goverment. There were only around 65 cases including all welfare benefits that reached court action last year and the total sum involved was quite insignificant. Only a tiny fraction of the amount of fraud committed by over 50% of MP's in fact. For me the worse part of this is, none of this Witch Hunt attack could have taken place without the 100% rubber stamping hy a so called Liberal Democrat party and the quite pathetic Nick Clegg in particular. It was always obvious David Cameron was a self seeking power map Spiv, but Clegg's part in it all is just plan EVIL

Subject: RE: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 May 11 - 08:58 AM

Despite Condem and what you see om the media, benefit fraud dropped dramatically under the last goverment. There were only around 65 cases including all welfare benefits that reached court action last year and the total sum involved was quite insignificant
Surely you realise that the fact there were few prosecutions does not mean there was little fraud. there were also few deportations of illegal immigrants. That does not mean there was no problem.
The previous government let thigs slide, leaving the 'ConDems' (as you term them) with difficult choices about how to get the country back on its feet.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 19 May 11 - 10:53 AM

Jolly good idea.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 May 11 - 02:02 PM

Dear Fluids - have you still really no idea about my life?

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 19 May 11 - 03:39 PM

Even convicted inmates of HM Prisons are not obliged to work if they don't wish to. And they're fed, warm, have TV in their cells, etc etc. They are also given a sum each week to buy toiletries, batteries, groceries and so on. Why should the unemployed be forced to work for far less than the minimum wage, merely for being unfortunate enough to be unable to find a job? Degrading!

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: Penny S.
Date: 20 May 11 - 04:36 AM

It's not entirely a new idea. My mother remembered from her childhood in the 20s and 30s talking with work gangs on the roads in East Sussex, and finding that they were highly qualified men, with degrees, who had lost employment. The flavour of this story was not of people being abused by this employment in menial unskilled jobs - and my mother was left wing, from a left wing family. It was of work to improve the environment being initiated by the government to solve the problem of unemployment.

What I don't know is how much choice people had about it or how much they were paid - there has to be choice, and the pay has to be reasonable. And the work has to be seen as a service to the community, and given dignity, not seen as a punishment for being unemployed - which certainly seems to be the general cast of opinion on the right at the moment.

You can see I'm in two minds about this!

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: landlubber
Date: 20 May 11 - 09:16 AM

I have done research on labour camps in the interwar period.

They were ostensibly intended to keep/make men fit for work, however they are a means of making them earn their dole, they usually attended them for about 3 months.

Life in the camps was harsh, they had to wear uniforms and their movements outside the camps were restricted. Hollesley Bay was a particulary infamous camp, where men who had committed no crime were sent, now it is an open prison were likes of Jeffrey Archer wiled away his time.

Unemployed men (read unpaid labour) were also used to build the majority, if not all, the lidos that were very fashionable then. I think the unemployed were also used to work on the Mersey Tunnel.

It is quite some time since I did this research and so cannot remember all the nuances.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 20 May 11 - 02:10 PM

"For me the worse part of this is, none of this Witch Hunt attack could have taken place without the 100% rubber stamping hy a so called Liberal Democrat party and the quite pathetic Nick Clegg in particular. It was always obvious David Cameron was a self seeking power map Spiv, but Clegg's part in it all is just plan EVIL"

A typical load of emotive rubbish from a supporter of the useless Labour Party! If Labour hadn't lost the last General Election, because they had thoroughly lost the trust of the electorate, we wouldn't have a coalition government, would we? And just consider how much more EVIL the government would be if the LibDems (who are in a MINORITY) weren't there to moderate the ambitions of the Tories. Nevertheless, all of you Labour idiots are going to succeed in your ill-thought-through ambition to destroy the LibDems soon - then you'll find out how EVIL a full-blown Tory government can really be - and I don't expect you smug, doctrinaire, incompetent idiots to come to our rescue either.

Where I live we have just lost an extremely hard working LibDem councillor who has been replaced by a Labour non-entity who we will probably never see from one year to the next (he'll be in the Town Hall slavishly toeing the Party line!).

I said to our equally hard working LibDem MP, "I reckon that Labour would have won this election if they had put up a donkey as a candidate!" He said that while he was canvassing a woman said to him, "I would vote Labour if they put up a donkey as a candidate"!!

I think that Labour have finally taken leave of their senses - when they should be forming an effective opposition (too stupid for that).

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 May 11 - 02:16 PM

Er - Shimmers - can you count? Without the turncoats there would not be a conservative government. Not for long anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 20 May 11 - 03:56 PM

Ruddy iPhone.

Anyway, where was I?

Oh yes. Actually M'Unlearned friend, I do know you. Which is more than I can say for the Ministers you reckon make up policy just to wind you up. Figures I suppose if you reckon the world spins round your caravan.

You know, many in fact a good few million people agree that the goverment coffers need sorting. There may be many different ways of doing so and Osborne may well not have the best answers. But luckily for democracy, pragmatism is higher on most people's agenda than listening to weird beards.

Mind, i still say that inventing work for the unemployed is a socialist not a conservative idea which at least means dogma doesn't always prevail in government thinking.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 20 May 11 - 04:17 PM

But, Richard, I keep hearing Labour dogma about the LibDems 'selling out' but which party, when it had the opportunity, during 13 years of government, presided over an ever widening social divide, allowed house price inflation to run out of control, failed to regulate the banks and thought that the environment was irrelevant? Oh yes, and there was the little matter of taking us into an illegal war in which many thousands on innocent people died. If the LibDems are selling out Labour should know because they wrote the book on selling out!!

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 May 11 - 04:20 PM

I thought so.

You have only what I put here.

You sound more and more like the onanists from a "political" party that stalks posters here.

Why don't you actually check the state of the deficit/GNP ratio in the UK as it stood before your friends the bankers gambled the money away?

Oh, and while at it why not try to learn something about socialism and capitalism?   

Total idiot.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 20 May 11 - 06:08 PM

Why do you assume that because I despise the Labour Party that makes me a 'friend to bankers'?! Perhaps if the Labour Party had made even a feeble attempt to be true to their Socialist, 'progressive' principles we wouldn't be in this mess now.

Almost all of the Labour supporters I know appear to be in complete denial. To hear them talk you would think that they were still being led by the likes of Keir Hardie and Aneurin Bevan - i.e. great men who had principles and not a bunch of smug, doctrinaire autocrats who, when it came to the crunch, shamelessly sold out to Capitalism. Not to recognise that fact is true idiocy, Richard!

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 May 11 - 01:11 AM

Shimmers, I was addressing Mr Fluids

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 21 May 11 - 04:23 AM

Oh, right! Sorry Richard!

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 21 May 11 - 08:42 AM

They could always be employed as the one in road mending/builders'/roofers' gangs who is permanently talking on a mobile phone!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 21 May 11 - 10:23 AM

That would be the tory one, talking to his stockbroker boko.

Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 21 May 11 - 11:08 AM

Ah, I hadn't thought of that, but wearing a high visibility jacket???

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: GUEST,Fluids
Date: 21 May 11 - 05:04 PM

Thought it about time to answer to the name M'Unlearned friend gave me.

Whilst I am at It

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

The difference is that socialism starts with a S and capitalism starts with a C.

Other words also start with a C like Richard for instance.

Some people start abuse because they have no argument to give. I appear to have denigrated down to that point because you can't educate pork.

Sorry but abuse seems the only way to get a reaction. Facts are too subjective for somebody so steeped in law as our Richard.

Zzz zzz zzzz

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 22 May 11 - 03:24 AM

But wearing a high visibility jacket ??? yeah so as not to stand out.

Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 22 May 11 - 08:58 AM

Put Jeffrey Archer in charge.

Then it would be a Gulag Archer-Farago.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 22 May 11 - 11:10 AM

If I were to submit a post which began with a sentence such as

"All Muslims are........"
"All Women are........."
"All Blacks are........"
"All Americans, Japanese, Jews, Germans, etc. etc. etc. are........"

I would quite rightly be jumped upon by just about every poster to this forum, member or guest, and told that I was a Religious, Sexist, or Racist Bigot.

Yet a sizeable number of those same posters feel absolutely justified in using every denigratory, low, scurrilous, and abusive term they can find and a few they make up, to describe those who exercise their right to vote for the British Conservative Party, as well as the members of that party.

Can those people really be too stupid to see that they are just as bigotted and just as wrong, when they say "All Tories are......."?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 22 May 11 - 01:00 PM

landlubber, I've visited many times at Hollesley Bay now that it's an open prison. Whereas the inmates are not obliged to work, many do, as it looks good when they come up for parole, 'town leave', 'college leave' etc. The work is not easy, as the camp is a huge farm, with acres of market gardening, forestry and a Suffolk Punch horse stud. In winter, the lads get frozen in not very adequate clothing, and the labour is tough physical graft. But these guys have committed crimes, whereas the unemployed have not. Also, if compulsory work is allotted to those out of work, will this not steal jobs from the rest of the workforce? Employers will jump at the chance of cheap labour rather than pay the going rate for their regular employees.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 22 May 11 - 04:07 PM

Hi GUEST! I understood that you were referring to the inmates there between the wars. I just wanted to add that nowadays it's still there, albeit an 'Open Prison'. We both agree, I think, that there is a distinction between labour camps for criminals and labour gangs for the unemployed. Also, the inmates today at Hollesley Bay can sit around doing nothing if they like. There's even a lovely gymnasium on site, and organised football games with visiting teams. I'm most interested in your studies in History, and the idea that in those days, 'feckless' folk who did not work were challenged to do so. The move now seems to tend once more to this approach. (But not with prisoners!) Genuine Jobseekers would be only too delighted to be given work (my husband is one) as long as it was paid fairly. But the prisoners I have visited would much prefer to sit about taking drugs and watching TV in their cells, and a lot of them do just that!

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 May 11 - 06:34 PM

First, Don, nobody said that in this thread.

Second, the central purpose of conservatism is to conserve the status quo and therefore to prevent a fairer one.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 22 May 11 - 07:15 PM

It is implicit in every statement you and several others make on the subject of Tory policy and Tory voters, including ""Second, the central purpose of conservatism is to conserve the status quo and therefore to prevent a fairer one.""

That is merely the misinterpretation of Conservatism engendered by your hard wired anti Tory bias, and bears little or no relation to the truth.

Your responses re sodomy, sycophantism, and old boy networks are pretty conclusive proof of your inability to separate fact from facile tabloid smears.

I rest my case.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 May 11 - 10:46 PM

Don, what is it you don't understand about the meaning of the word "conserve"? "Conservation" and "change" are antonyms.

Have you, by the way, noted the number of old Etonians now listed in "Who's Who"? and how that number has changed since the current government took office?

Why on earth should you imagine that you know more about public schools than someone who went to one?

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 23 May 11 - 03:27 AM

Don[Wysiwig]t has made up his mind, so kindly do not confuse him with the facts.

Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 23 May 11 - 04:19 AM

OK, Don. Please tell me what's so great about the Conservative Party, why I should vote for them and why I am wrong to think of them, as I do, as the party of greed, selfishness and laissez-faire Capitalism?

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: Musket
Date: 23 May 11 - 04:48 AM

Don has, in my opinion, a point. To say that every person who votes for a particular political party have the worst traits of that party's history is just as bad as stereotyping on race, gender or sexual orientation.

I can't agree with Richard Bridge however when he states that conservative means fundamentally to conserve the status quo. For two reasons chiefly;

1. The status quo is a welfare state, built under Labour architecture. I don't see people on this forum accusing them of upholding the welfare state! (Though in reality, I see little difference between their vision and the previous governments.) I have failed to read any pledge to prevent a fairer society?

2. If we are being pedantic about title, they are the conservative and unionist party. As John major signed the Good Friday agreement, I doubt we can read too much into title these days?

I don't hold a candle for any party and as a floating voter I feel more empowered than friends who feel they cannot go against their heritage or whatever. (I'm an ex miner and my wife is a public school educated daughter of a (retired) senior officer in The palace of Westminster. I doubt he votes Labour and I doubt he thinks I vote anything but Labour.)

You couldn't swipe a credit card between their manifestos in reality. They are both middle ground capitalism with conscience parties who pander to the media and forget their principles when it suits them, calling such moves pragmatism.

Both parties claim to support business enterprise in order to have an economy that can sustain a social program. Sounds good to me, and if they fail I can register my dissatisfaction at the polls next time. It isn't about being judgemental over supporters of a party's aims, it isn't about good vs evil, it's about politics. And we haven't had the types of government some reckon we have since the corn laws, (though Th*tcher tried to break the mould with disastrous results.)

We have middle of the road politics and I doubt there is an alternative.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 23 May 11 - 06:34 AM

Who accused the tories of inventing sodomy?

Very enterprising if they had done - but I think the practice probably predates the Tory party.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 23 May 11 - 06:53 AM

""OK, Don. Please tell me what's so great about the Conservative Party, why I should vote for them and why I am wrong to think of them, as I do, as the party of greed, selfishness and laissez-faire Capitalism?""

I have neither the authority nor the inclination to tell anybody who they should vote for. I believe that you have the right to believe and vote for whatever you see fit.

Perhaps you might agree that I too have that right.

I am simply sick of being told that I don't have the right to choose by idealogues with a parroted set of pejoratives which they apply to those who don't share their political stance.

""Who accused the tories of inventing sodomy?

Very enterprising if they had done - but I think the practice probably predates the Tory party.""

That would be our resident armchair socialist, Mr Bridge. Perhaps you might enlighten him Al.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 23 May 11 - 07:56 AM

"I have neither the authority nor the inclination to tell anybody who they should vote for. I believe that you have the right to believe and vote for whatever you see fit.
Perhaps you might agree that I too have that right."


Well, yes, you can vote for anyone who stands for election - I wasn't trying to deny you that right, Don. Also note that I wasn't asking you to tell me who to vote for - I was asking you to tell me WHY I should vote Tory (there's a subtle difference!).

As for: "I am simply sick of being told that I don't have the right to choose by idealogues with a parroted set of pejoratives which they apply to those who don't share their political stance."

So am I, Don, so am I!

But you still haven't told me why I am wrong to think of the Tory Party as the party of greed, selfishness and laissez-faire Capitalism.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 May 11 - 09:35 AM

Anyone is equally entitled to tell people they are wrong.

As, Don, you are.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 24 May 11 - 05:03 AM

""As, Don, you are.""

As, Richard, I have. And without all the nasty denigratory pejoratives you have applied to me on justabout every political thread.

Don T.

Shimrod, I haven't suggested to you, at any time, that you are wrong. You are entitled to make up your own mind. I am merely asserting my own right to do likewise, without being gratuitously insulted by certain posters.

In fact I haven't aimed any remark in your direction. I am not going to name individuals, but my targets know who they are.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 24 May 11 - 11:36 AM

The biggest stealers of jobs in the office are women!!

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: Cllr
Date: 24 May 11 - 12:33 PM

Ex Cllr aka Mike Gibson

I think this is an excellent idea with all those people sitting around being idle.

what you mean I'm un-employed, ? Im just resting between councils,
you can't make me do that .. it's just i don't have a job at the moment
wait hang on.. AGGGGGGGHHHHHH

**exit stage left dragged away to the salt mines**

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 May 11 - 03:10 PM

Well, Don, I'm going in to have an operation on the health service soon. I hope. As long as this government supports it.

I'd think you wise to think likewise.

Oh, and my dentist treats me on the NHS.

I'd think you wise to think likewise. While the option still exists.

Oh, hang on, weren't you complaining that the NHS was not free to treat your teeth and your benefits did not stretch to that? And do you vote for an improved NHS or improved benefits, or a reduction in both?

What is it about "turkey" and "Xmas" (or indeed the principle of "From each according to his means, to each according to his needs" so roundly eschewed by the present government) that you don't understand?

Or do you just like the idea of forced labour now that you're too old for it? Trust me, under your preferred government's preferred tests you'd have had disability benefit withdrawn because you might always be able to work sitting down with an oxygen mask on. Yeah, I know, "trust me I'm a lawyer", but at least I'm an honest one.

You want to be an idiot? Be free. But if you walk like a duck, etc, I'll call you a duck.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: Musket
Date: 25 May 11 - 04:00 AM

Just recovering from an operation myself. Our system is a good one. Successive governments like to tinker with the organisation and I too have been involved with that over the years, trying to make sense of political interpretations of managing it.

Dental care was free at the beginning, but Bevan realised the funding for the NHS (USA - Marshall Plan, ironically....) wasn't a bottomless pit so teeth and prescriptions went. Since then, no wholesale loss of service has been implemented by any government and the dirty word "rationing" has to pass clinical appropriateness as well as "opportunity" tests when considering priorities.

Just out of interest, it was the post war Labour government who allowed GPs to remain private businesses contracting to The NHS. It was the last Labour government who used the private sector (initially) to get waiting times down and then as a reward allowed them to compete for elective care. It was Callaghan's Labour government who took the councillor led health authority model away and replaced it with corporate boards.

You see, that's part of why I have issues with people running down lines of four feet bad two feet good. Just being Labour or just being Tory doesn't describe political decisions or consequences. They all think they are being pragmatic, even if it does align with dogma occasionally.

So it isn't conservative set up camps. It is the government of the day (coalition apparently) looking at a socialist idea of using spare workforce capacity to mend the infrastructure of communities. Good or bad, I ain't expressing a view, but to align it with conservative dogma is a wee bit silly really...

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 25 May 11 - 05:39 AM

Thank you Ian.

At least one person on this site can talk about Tories without foaming at the mouth.

As for your duck comment Richard, it's just another example of your inability to separate debate from abuse.

Don T

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 25 May 11 - 05:55 AM

""Yeah, I know, "trust me I'm a lawyer", but at least I'm an honest one.""

A highly debatable assertion, since your expressed belief that all Tory voters are either rich, evil, or stupid flies in the face of logic and reason.

Where is the honesty in the blatant dismissal of all who don't share your hatred of any who dare to disagree with the great (but not quite so honest) legal genius as sons of bitches, sycophantic and subservient slaves, or heartless crooks.

That's approximately 40% of the population of this country who see something in the Tories that has obviously escaped your eagle eye.

How many of them d'you suppose are Public school educated rich toffs?

In your bitter and twisted view of the political framework of this country, you are not even being honest with yourself.

I think your heart belongs in Russia or China, not in a democracy.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 25 May 11 - 06:56 AM

"That's approximately 40% of the population of this country who see something in the Tories that has obviously escaped your eagle eye."

But what do they see, Don? I can't help thinking that it must be something to do with greed, selfishness, class distinction and self interest.

Further up the thread you wrote: "I am simply sick of being told that I don't have the right to choose by idealogues ..."

Don't forget that since the 1980s the political Right have pumped out ideological stuff about the primacy of "The Market". All we have to do, according to these ideologues, is to deregulate the markets, allow them to do what they like, and everything will be rosy. Many of us have always believed that this is just self-serving nonsense - and it's all beginning to unravel now, isn't it, Don?

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 25 May 11 - 07:06 AM

Don, speaking as a neutral in this argument. If you can't summon up a few flecks of foam around the mouth about the tories (and the labour and liberal parties, it has to be said) - you're just not paying close enough attention.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 26 May 11 - 06:26 AM

""All we have to do, according to these ideologues, is to deregulate the markets, allow them to do what they like, and everything will be rosy. Many of us have always believed that this is just self-serving nonsense - and it's all beginning to unravel now, isn't it, Don?""

Always wise, don't you think, to do a little homework before holding forth.

While the Thatcher years did involve a period of "market rules" thinking, it has obviously escaped your notice, that

1. The prudent Chancellor and unelected PM Gordon Brown proceeded to remove virtually all remaining restrictions from the activities of the financial sector, and encourage record levels of personal and national debt.

2. He did this against the vociferous warnings of both Tory and LibDem parties.

You were saying?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 26 May 11 - 06:32 AM

""Don, speaking as a neutral in this argument. If you can't summon up a few flecks of foam around the mouth about the tories (and the labour and liberal parties, it has to be said) - you're just not paying close enough attention.""

Spot on All. All of them make me fume at times, and that is one difference between me and Mr Bridge, who reserves his vitriol for the Tories, and anyone who dares to ignore his demands not to vote for them.

I can't take seriously the opinions of one who would rather see this country bankrupt than have it survive through Tory policies.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 09 Mar 12 - 05:26 PM

I see another Labour MP has exposed his thuggish side. First it was John Prescott, now it's Eric Joyce. Joyce, A Labour MP head-butted fellow politicians in a House of Commons bar brawl.

Eric Joyce, 51, threw punches and 'nutted' two Conservatives after a late-night drinking session, snarling: 'There are too many Fuc..ing Tories in here.'


Witnesses said the glazed eyes of the former Army major, who had to be restrained by eight police officers, made it 'look like nobody was home'.

As the officers dragged him to the cells, Joyce yelled: 'You can't touch me, I am a Labour MP.'


http://uk.news.yahoo.com/labour-mp-faces-assault-charge-031545936.html

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 09 Mar 12 - 06:37 PM

"The prudent Chancellor and unelected PM Gordon Brown proceeded to remove virtually all remaining restrictions from the activities of the financial sector, and encourage record levels of personal and national debt."

Just read D(W)T's remark from 26 May 11 - which I must have missed last time round. A bit late to reply now - but here goes.

I don't disagree with any of that, Don - the last Labour government, and the one before that, were an absolute disgrace! 'Red on the outside, deep, dark blue on the inside'. Grubby, incompetent, stupid hypocrites! I will certainly never vote for the idiots ever again.

I was at a dinner party the other night with a load of Labour Party members. They were ranting on about this "rotten government" and invoking the memory of Ramsey MacDonald (who is currently revolving so fast in his grave that he's registering on seismographs) and all boasting about their "working class roots" (although most of them were very comfortably off academics and retired teachers and the like) and other tiresome sh*t of that nature. Then I realised that they were reserving all of their wrath for the LibDems - who they were determined to destroy. At present, as I see it, the LibDems are the only bulwark between us and the Tories. If Labour succeeds in destroying them we will all be at the mercy of a rabid, right-wing Tory government. But Labour would love that, wouldn't they? Then they can strut around, beating their breasts declaiming what noble, ideologically perfect 'socialists' they all are and how all they want to do is to defend the rights of the 'workin' klarss' ...

Until Labour gets elected again (God help us!) - then their leadership will be de-regulating again like crazy and worming their way up the arses of Big Business - and you won't hear a peep out of the 'noble socialist' rank and file!

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 09 Mar 12 - 07:15 PM

And going by todays news headlines, a new Labour leader will probably be a heavyweight or light heavyweight. Possibly Scottish, as the Labour MP in court today, used a headbutt.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Mar 12 - 07:58 PM

Well I think Mr Joyce is just what we need. Why debate with Al Quaeda, the Ulster Unionists, the IRA....lets send him in to head butt them.

Bugger all point in debating with assholes....

Talking of camp - don't you think theres something of a closet flossie about David davies. Wouldn't be surprised to find out that he's more of Dorothy Perkins man than a Calvin Klein!

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Labour camps (UK)?
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 10 Mar 12 - 04:32 AM

I liked David Davies played with his other two brothers in the Kinks.