BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 22 Jun 11 - 04:59 PM

The horses (ponies) - possibly up to 50 of them who took England to a stunning victory over New Zealand last Saturday at Beaufort Polo Club had a great day.

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 21 Jun 11 - 07:19 PM

""The best thing about horses"" - is that they don't bet on humans to win races and start a punch up when they lose.

This is known as "Horse Sense".

They don't eat us either!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: catspaw49
Date: 20 Jun 11 - 01:17 PM

Can we call Wavy "Dungfoot" because he's full of shit and keeps putting his foot in his mouth?


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Jun 11 - 12:21 PM

:)

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: Stu
Date: 20 Jun 11 - 11:58 AM

Sugarfoot, not gluefoot or gumfoot.

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Jun 11 - 11:44 AM

Can't ask for more than that, Sugarfoot. Sugarfoot? Hmmmm

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: Stu
Date: 20 Jun 11 - 09:26 AM

The best thing about horses is they look magnificent, work hard, embody a spirit of wildness and integrity that communicates directly to the soul and they taste good too.

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 19 Jun 11 - 09:43 PM

I saw that program, and the bulk of the disaster was in fact eight men deciding to have a John Wayne style punch up, and Wayne Rooney's squeeze turning up hatless on ladies' day.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 19 Jun 11 - 11:40 AM

On the Andrew Marr Show (BBC) guests review our Sunday papers, who declared "Royal Ascot" (mentioned above) something of a disaster this year. The republican Oliver Cromwell, of course, made horse racing illegal.

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: s&r
Date: 16 Jun 11 - 03:53 PM

More and more...who and how many?

More and more.....who and how many?

A few are beginning to see the light.....as preached by your resident missionary.

David you are as always more wrong than right, but you never see it - perhaps we should ban blinkers, or you should stop wearing them.


Stu

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 Jun 11 - 03:53 PM

At that level of polo, the ponies are rested after a few minutes, and maybe used again later in the game.

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Jun 11 - 03:22 PM

Bonzo3legs, a horse does not lie. Watch the ears and the tails- those 'ponies' are extremely focused and doing their utmost. And yes, most of them are enjoying themselves.

My father never used or allowed spurs, nor did/do any of his children.

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 16 Jun 11 - 02:37 PM

More-and-more complained about spurs, Spaw; more-and-more are complaining about whips; and a few are beginning to see the light re bits, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 Jun 11 - 02:25 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6HMXq_u-mI&feature=related

Here are some horses (ponies) really enjoying themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: catspaw49
Date: 16 Jun 11 - 11:13 AM

Let's say both...........

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Jun 11 - 11:01 AM

In pedal pushers? The Inuit or Palin? (I am a very visual person.)

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: catspaw49
Date: 16 Jun 11 - 05:25 AM

Not watch Jerry???? I ask you Ebbie, where else can you see a trans-gender, transvestite, Inuit, who is in love with Sarah Palin in pedal pushers and carrying a 30.06, have a wish fulfilled by the D.A.R.?

That was a really sweet program I tell you. We all got to see he/she/it buttfuck Sarah while she wore a Revereware pot and rang a bell screaming that the British were here and on their way to Russia.   Truly inspiring...............


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Jun 11 - 02:27 AM

Got an answer for you, Big Al: Don't watch Jerry Springer. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Jun 11 - 12:58 AM

'A great many horses do not perform well when it isn't worth it to them, but there are horses who have an active connection to their human beings and do remarkable things."

That guy on Jerry Springer who made love to his Shetland pony. Case in point.

What kept the guy interested? Could the pony fake orgasms? Dress up in exotic underwear on his birthday? Was he the pony's main sexual partner, or just a bit on the side?

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: catspaw49
Date: 16 Jun 11 - 12:25 AM

"A great many horses do not perform well when it isn't worth it to them, but there are horses who have an active connection to their human beings and do remarkable things."

Seattle Slew....case in point.

One of the great Thoroughbreds of the 20th Century, rated in the Top 10. Slew hated training and would do nothing on training days. He went through the motions but it was impossible to get anything meaningful out of him. He came from excellent breeding but was such an unlikely prospect as a yearling that he sold for a paltry sum, something under $20,000. But he matured and even though seemingly a lazy training horse, he went undefeated as a two year old. Then as a three year old won the Triple Crown and is still the only horse to do so undefeated. He raced a few more years with some dramatic results and then went on to a spectacular stud career.

On race days, Slew was a different horse. As he did the parade before entering the gate, only then would he do this funny prance they called "Slew's War Dance." On the track he was fearsome and was equally capable of running at the back and coming on late or rabbiting out to a blistering pace in the lead. When the racing was done, he lazed out as if saying, "I'm the greatest and I don't need no stinking training!"

Said of Slew........."He had that special something that no one can ever really truly describe. He had character and a pizzazz that enhanced the raw talent that he displayed as a runner. He simply was the most electrifying and magnetic horse the industry has ever witnessed."

................and he knew it! Big Red (Secretariat) might well disagree but not many others!   Seattle Slew


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Jun 11 - 10:53 PM

You know, ignorance sets a person's back up. WV, it seems obvious that you have no clue that horses - just like dogs - just like humans - like performing to a 'master's desire. When humans do something perfectly we are proud of ourselves. When a dog performs to its optimal training, the dog is proud(If you have no experience in seeing that, I have a lot of instances I can tell you about.) When a horse does the same, that horse is PROUD. I know "they" say that horses are not smart, but I know better. A great many horses do not perform well when it isn't worth it to them, but there are horses who have an active connection to their human beings and do remarkable things. I - and my family - have many stories to relate.

So unless you already know that, you are being condescending in a very unpleasant manner. Coddling or forceably idling a horse is doing that horse no favors.

I suspect that you have taken Gulliver's Travels too literally.

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Jun 11 - 08:39 PM

Perhaps if horses has sufragettes, a radical mare would throw herself under the feet of the runners in the London Marathon.

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Jun 11 - 08:34 PM

They used to control women with a scolds bridle. I suppose if horses had had sufragettes and the vote etc., they would have made known their feelings about uncomfortable foreign objects being stuck in their mouths as a means of controlling them.

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: catspaw49
Date: 15 Jun 11 - 06:51 PM

Ya' know Stu, I'd forgotten that previous pronouncement from Wavy. I'm sure he's got an opinion of course but it is probably as covered up as the rest.

I may start using "cover" all over the place instead of fuck!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: s&r
Date: 15 Jun 11 - 06:27 PM

What's even worse is that quite often women have been known to ride horses. They should of course be banned from doing this BY STATUTE and the UN since their bodies (already pronounced as unfit for tennis) arebetter suited to riding e.g. scooters.

Stu

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 15 Jun 11 - 04:36 PM

From "yapnav" to good gobbledygook, Virginia: the purpose of a bit and reins lies in "controlling the animal"/guiding it this way or that VIA A DESIRE TO RELIEVE DISCMOFORT/PAIN as pressure is applied to its gums on either side of the mouth.

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 15 Jun 11 - 03:48 PM

I know eff all about horses (apart from thinking they are both gorgeous and terrifying) but it seems to me if an animal is in pain it would be naturally intractable. So if the bit causes pain just from being in the mouth wouldn't that defeat the purpose of controlling the animal?

I just call it yapnav oral guidance system.

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 15 Jun 11 - 01:25 PM

By the way, this topic has just hit the headlines here in England as recent horse deaths at Sedgefield and Ascot have led to calls for the former to be closed down, and whipping to be banned altogether.

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 15 Jun 11 - 01:14 PM

Here's a link to an article on modern mega dairies, Ebbie - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-11610359. If it doesn't work in your location, just web-search "mega dairies milking three times per day" or similar.

And I don't have a dog, but quite like Jack Russels.

Spaw - If you do chew, try swapping gum for a bit, for a bit!

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: catspaw49
Date: 15 Jun 11 - 09:30 AM

I think they're all anxious to get on with that covering business. I know I like to cover and if you don't like that, then cover you 'cause you're covered up!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: GUEST,999 --wikipedia with a google of bull nose
Date: 15 Jun 11 - 09:21 AM

"Most dairy or beef farms traditionally had at least one, if not several, bulls for purposes of herd maintenance.[12][13] The handling of an aggressive, powerful animal was a practical issue with life-threatening consequences for the farmer.[14]
Bulls respond well to a good handler

It is estimated that 42% of all livestock-related fatalities are a result of bull attacks, and only about one in twenty victims of a bull attack survives.[15] Dairy breed bulls are particularly dangerous and unpredictable; the hazards of bull handling are a significant cause of injury and death for dairy farmers in some parts of the United States.[16][17][18] The need to move the bull in and out of its pen to cover cows exposed the farmer to serious jeopardy of life and limb.[19] Being trampled, jammed against a wall or gored by a bull was one of the most frequent causes of death in the dairy industry prior to 1940.[20] As suggested in one popular farming magazine, "Handle [the bull] with a staff and take no chances. The gentle bull, not the vicious one, most often kills or maims his keeper." [21]"



The article continues and is worth reading.

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 15 Jun 11 - 09:11 AM

I thought that a ring in the nose of a bull was an indication to humans to not mess with it or get the hell out sharpish, Lol!

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Jun 11 - 06:53 PM

I think the horse should have been allowed to grab the leaves off the tree. Whats the point of being a horse if you can't horse about?

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 14 Jun 11 - 06:06 AM

Did somebody say dogs?? Bonzo has 3 legs!!

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: catspaw49
Date: 14 Jun 11 - 12:16 AM

Geeziz Wavy.....Do you have to work at being a fuckwit or does it just seem to come naturally to you? You're not talking horses, you're talking horseshit. Its obvious to anyone who has lived long-term with dogs and horses that you are an idiot!

I love animals and I gotsta tell you Man, you need to understand them and live with them as a part of your life before you go out spouting complete claptrap. Bits for instance come in hundreds of different styles and variations and the severe types are in limited use. Good horse people can make even the most severe bit relatively painless and a bad handler can cause pain with even the gentlest bit....and in all cases adjustment and fit is critical. To many horses a bit is almost like chewing gum is to some people. It sort of gives them something to do and keeps them alert. They make some specific mouthpieces just for those horses that need that sort of thing.

For instance, Karen had a part Quarter Horse and part Tennessee Walker that she had a helluva' time keeping focused on a trail. Going down a steep hill this big mare would suddenly turn and grab some leaves off a tree or some other dumb thing. A friend suggested a bit change using a device that rolled around on the mouthpiece and she acted like a different horse.

Don't go off about things you know nothing about. Don't even get me started on dogs.


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Jun 11 - 11:54 PM

Dogs are eaten in many places. You can buy both dog and cat meat over the Internet, if you wish.

Then again, so is rat, snake, unborn mice, and similar things I shan't go into. Protein is protein, ultimately, and if you are hungry enough you'll eat it.

Consider vegetarianism -- in climates with winter you'd be hard pressed to continue a vegetable-only diet if it were not for modern food transportation. In fact, there would be wide-spread starvation across the "civilized world."

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Jun 11 - 10:55 PM

I personally have not heard of cows being milked THREE times a day, although I suppose it is possible. Twice a day is the norm.

As for being permenently kept in a barn = well, I haven't heard of that either. Again, I suppose it is possible.

Fattening steers are often kept in feed lots, a deplorable practice imo. But even they are not kept in a barn.

WV, perhaps you are vegan? If so, it stands to reason that you don't use dairy products or eat eggs. And I don't suppose you use leather products either.

In your utopia, horses and cattle roam free of any restrictions- kind of like India, eh? Do you let your dog bark? It is work, you know.

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: s&r
Date: 13 Jun 11 - 05:59 PM

You don't really understand farming do you David.

Stu

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 13 Jun 11 - 05:10 PM

The modern large buildings in which, as I say, cows are kept permanently to be milked 3 times a day have much more to do with capitalism and economies of scale than "protection", Stu.

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: s&r
Date: 13 Jun 11 - 04:39 PM

WAV - get real

My grandsons tack up their horses, including the bit. They're 11 and 12. When they go out the horses come to them from across the field, and stand without any panic or signs of discomfort while they're tacked. This is in the real world on a real farm with real people. If your information comes from observing television, it says little for your observation and little about the programmes you watch.

On a farm cattle are put in barns for their protection not as a punishment; they are put into the fields to graze not play. They are milked when their udders are full - there's no point putting a pump on a dry teat.

Stu

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 13 Jun 11 - 04:15 PM

Or is it you, M, who can't comprehend beyond the paradigm - within which are old sayings such as "champing/chafing at the bit", "bit between the teeth"...I repeat, the horse is not keen to get into any task, but keen to get the damn thing out of its mouth.

And I'm remined of the BBC's "Victorian Farm", or one of their other hands-on history series, where the draft horse was relatively easy to tack-up - except for the bit, because, I'm quite sure, it had remembered the discomfort.

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Jun 11 - 04:04 PM

Yes, indeed they had. So had the ground sloths, saber tooth cats, camels, dire wolves and I don't know what all. Fortunately the Spanish didn't introduce any of these, and it took the US Army to re-introduce the camel.

There is some evidence (pretty good evidence, actually) that early people in the Americas hunted mastodon and/or mammoth.

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Jun 11 - 10:48 AM

Perhaps so Rapparee ~~ but the point is that they had gone extinct some centuries and many human generations earlier, so that there had been no continuous tradition of horsemanship among the indigenous American population.

WAV ~ There were no "discomforted mouth movements"; horses champ on their bits because they are there, not because they are uncomfortable. Read the Cavalry training instructions I gave the link to above, 05.00 AM, and learn something about horses ~~ a topic on which I am no expert, but on which you are clearly entirely ignorant but full of self-righteous oh-diddums PC misapprehensions.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Jun 11 - 10:24 AM

Horses WERE indigenous to the Americas; however, they went extinct until the Spanish brought in some more.

Very few glues are made from animal parts today. Chemical parts, yeah. But trying to find a good hide glue, for instance, is quite difficult. Cyanoacrylates ("super glues") are rendered down from the stalls of the chemical supply room -- as are epoxies and almost all the rest.

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 13 Jun 11 - 06:55 AM

But, Linn, if you can't get the BBC link just above your post, please believe me that the discomforted mouth-movements I mentioned occured while the horses were STATIONARY on Horse Guards Parade.

And, on a lighter note, cheers Big Al! But, one correction, I've questioned "Chords in FOLK" - not in, e.g., choral evensongs, of which I've enjoyed many, on Radio 3 and in "stalls" of the other kind!

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 13 Jun 11 - 05:16 AM

"as close to dressage as one can get in western riding."

What's that sport that William Shatner indulges in?

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Jun 11 - 05:00 AM

Following well worth looking up & browsing through in re topic of this thread:~

NOLAN'S SYSTEM FOR TRAINING CAVALRY HORSES.by KENNER GARRARD, CAPTAIN FIFTH CAVALRY, U. S. A.

http://9thvirginia.com/nolansys.html

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Jun 11 - 03:03 AM

---MtheGM: what about Amerindians/Native Americans/First Nations? ---

====

Well, what about them, WAV? Unique, pretty well, in having used practically no harness of any kind to ride; but then horses were no traditionally ancient part of their culture, not having been indigenous to the American continent but imported by the Spanish. I can't see how one exception to an otherwise universal rule affects my point that harness has been used for riding the horse since time immemorial.

You have, however, raised an agreeable mental image of hordes of howling Apache or Sioux on bareback mounts whooping around Horse Guards Parade, moccasins polished to a dazzling shine, feathered headdresses damped and brushed to perfection, forming pairs, fours, ranks, advancing smartly in review order...

A spectacle fit for a Queen, to be sure!

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: Teribus
Date: 13 Jun 11 - 02:50 AM

Ah well at least the working conditions of these horses have markedly improved over the course of time.

Being bothered by a bit or bridle was the last thing on their mind in times past:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Scotland_Forever.jpg

Subject: RE: BS: Cruelty in Trooping the Colour
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Jun 11 - 02:46 AM

Next time i'm walking round B and Q and i pass the shelf full of loctite and Evo- Stik; I will get out my ukelele, sing a couple of choruses of 'A Four Legged Friend', perhaps 'Old faithful', and moist eyed, I will remember the days when those jars thought they had a tough gig - riding round with lumps of metal in their gobs and some idiot bashing a kettle drum behind each of their sensitive lugholes.

never mind Prit-Stick old feller! i will say - you had a true friend in WAV. there were some who scorned him, because he wrote avant gard poetry, didn't believe in chords, and had advanced opinions. But one day in some (in a land there is no Araldite) you and he will frolic together in a meadow - the sunshine on your flanks, and under the shade of a great horse chestnut - he will read you his poems, and you will go 'neigh! i didn't like that one much....'