BS: Haye vs Klitscko (Boxing)

Subject: BS: Haye vs Klitscko (Boxing)
From: alanabit
Date: 01 Jul 11 - 12:26 PM

So tomorrow night the talking stops and the fighting begins. I wonder if any of my fellow Mudcatters are interested and whether they have any predictions?

Subject: RE: BS: Haye vs Klitscko (Boxing)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Jul 11 - 12:44 PM

I'm interested but have no prediction

Subject: RE: BS: Haye vs Klitscko (Boxing)
From: Becca72
Date: 01 Jul 11 - 12:45 PM

I haven't watched much boxing since Lennox Lewis retired...

Subject: RE: BS: Haye vs Klitscko (Boxing)
From: alanabit
Date: 01 Jul 11 - 12:49 PM

I was a big fan of Lennox Lewis. I am so glad he stayed retired rather than going on to lose to lesser men.
I am hoping that Haye's mouthy antics are merely ticket selling and not the real man. Pound for pound I rate him as by far the better boxer, but he just looks a bit on the small side to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Haye vs Klitscko (Boxing)
From: Stu
Date: 01 Jul 11 - 12:54 PM

Should be a good fight, but being poor I won't be able to see it.

Subject: RE: BS: Haye vs Klitscko (Boxing)
From: paul vaughan
Date: 01 Jul 11 - 12:56 PM

I've been looking forward to this for ages but I've got to go to a hotel for the weekend to celebrate my in-laws golden wedding. and there's no f*****g telly there!!! Don't want to sound ungrateful but they could've picked a better weekend! (blimey just thought, hope they're not secret mudcaters!)
My prediction? Haye on points after an epic battle that will go down as an all time classic fight, and I'm going to miss it. oh well :-(

Subject: RE: BS: Haye vs Klitscko (Boxing)
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 01 Jul 11 - 01:30 PM

I am sure there must be free viewings on the computer SJ

If I get to find a link I will PM you. Like you, I can't afford or justify the £15.

Subject: RE: BS: Haye vs Klitscko (Boxing)
From: gnu
Date: 01 Jul 11 - 01:40 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uljho5L-Ido for some hype... hour long TV show from London.

I haven't watched much boxing in years as I found the twisting of the rules and the judging upsetting. So many refs that do not ref properly! My old man was a prize fighter of note and he taught me well... rules are rules and should be followed to the letter in a consistent fashion.

And, I have come to realize it is barbaric although I still have a yen to watch it... especially that perfect straight right of Klitscko. It truly is a fine art.

Subject: RE: BS: Haye vs Klitscko (Boxing)
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 01 Jul 11 - 01:43 PM

They are already saying that the judges will be biased to Klitscko. Does bribery spring to mind?

Subject: RE: BS: Haye vs Klitscko (Boxing)
From: gnu
Date: 01 Jul 11 - 01:44 PM

There are a number of free links on Google but I always wonder if a link for free stuff is gonna try to hack me or is viral.

Subject: RE: BS: Haye vs Klitscko (Boxing)
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 01 Jul 11 - 01:46 PM

Well, Hayes shouldn't win. Hell, he got stopped by a light-heavyweight a while back!
However, if boxing is a bit dodgy, he will win which would set up a very big money match-up with Vitali.

Subject: RE: BS: Haye vs Klitscko (Boxing)
From: gnu
Date: 01 Jul 11 - 01:46 PM

BTW... £15 is cheap ! compared to here. The lads and I used to get together at my house and chip in until I was too old to stay up into the wee hours to watch fights in California.

Subject: RE: BS: Haye vs Klitscko (Boxing)
From: paul vaughan
Date: 01 Jul 11 - 01:52 PM

I don't think I'm even going to be able to get to a computer to find a link. I could possibly listen on the radio with some discreet earphones, I usually have a vacant expression anyway when the in-laws are about!!(god, I really do hope they're not secret mudcatters!)

Subject: RE: BS: Haye vs Klitscko (Boxing)
From: gnu
Date: 01 Jul 11 - 01:52 PM

And think about the re-match money. Surely Klitscko had a re-match clause written into the contract. Used to be you didn't have to have such a clause because it was understood as a gentleman's agreement but it's the norm these days.

Subject: RE: BS: Haye vs Klitscko (Boxing)
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 01 Jul 11 - 01:57 PM

If he wins, Haye will fight Vitali and lose, and then fight a return with Wladimer. That makes more sense money wise.

Subject: RE: BS: Haye vs Klitscko (Boxing)
From: alanabit
Date: 01 Jul 11 - 02:20 PM

I saw the Haye-Valuev fight, which Haye won convincingly. Valuev looked big enough to eat Haye, let alone merely beat him. The difference was that although he was big and strong, he was barely a boxer at all. To my eye neither of the Klitschkos have the movement and fluency of naturally gifted fighters, but they are real boxers. That is why I can only see it ending one way unless Wladimir makes a cock up of epic proportions. Haye knows he will have to knock his man out to get a draw - there is too much money at stake in Germany for him to have any chance of a points decision - even in the unlikely event that he outboxes Klitscko enough to score. I think the likely outcome is that round after round of straight lefts will take a terrible toll of his legs and speed. Then he will start swinging for the knock out punch, which is his only chance of winning. When that happens, I expect Klitschko to make short work of him. Haye is giving away thirty pounds - and it takes a lot of imagination to see him getting away with that against a competent boxer. Somebody make me believe I am wrong!

Subject: RE: BS: Haye vs Klitscko (Boxing)
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 01 Jul 11 - 02:29 PM

Sorry can't help you there Alan

Subject: RE: BS: Haye vs Klitscko (Boxing)
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 01 Jul 11 - 02:31 PM

Well, Haye - many would say - is faster and hits as hard as Corrie Sanders, and, as we know, Sanders really sorted out Wladimir.
If the fight is on the level, Wladimer should win handily. But if...

Subject: RE: BS: Haye vs Klitscko (Boxing)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Jul 11 - 02:47 PM

Haye was immensely impressive against Valuev, to the point that I felt a bit sorry for Valuev, who was unable to land a glove.

Subject: RE: BS: Haye vs Klitscko (Boxing)
From: fat B****rd
Date: 01 Jul 11 - 03:27 PM

Anyway, Good Luck David.

Subject: RE: BS: Haye vs Klitscko (Boxing)
From: gnu
Date: 01 Jul 11 - 03:27 PM

What do youse guys think about the beard ban? It was always the gentlemanly thing but the religion aspect got into it. I was shocked when I saw Duran enter the ring with a beard, even tho it was "slight".

Subject: RE: BS: Haye vs Klitscko (Boxing)
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 01 Jul 11 - 03:49 PM

I was watching a Holyfield v Moorer fight the other day, and I was amazed at Holyfield's beard.

Subject: RE: BS: Haye vs Klitscko (Boxing)
From: gnu
Date: 01 Jul 11 - 03:51 PM

Beards just ain't right in the ring. It's cheatin.

Subject: RE: BS: Haye vs Klitscko (Boxing)
From: alanabit
Date: 01 Jul 11 - 04:12 PM

I agree with you on the Valuev fight Richard, but Valuev had the boxing ability of a garden gnome. If Klitschko and Haye were the same size, it would be a no contest. I hope I'm wrong, but I fear that even Klitschko's modest level of ability will make his size and reach advantage tell against the smaller man. No one will be cheering louder than me if our lad pulls it off though!

Subject: RE: BS: Haye vs Klitscko (Boxing)
From: gnu
Date: 01 Jul 11 - 04:20 PM

I watched that fight on YT just now alanabit and I agree. I had never seen Haye and I must say he has a good straight right as well. Of course, I only saw him throw one good one so....

Subject: RE: BS: Haye vs Klitscko (Boxing)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Jul 11 - 09:44 PM

The once great Barry McGuigan is calling it for Hay in 6, here

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/columnists/mcguigan/2011/07/02/why-i-m-backing-david-haye-to-knock-out-wladimir-klitschko-in-six-rounds-115875-23241480/

Subject: RE: BS: Haye vs Klitscko (Boxing)
From: alanabit
Date: 02 Jul 11 - 04:05 PM

Let's hope he is right! Thanks for the link.

Subject: RE: BS: Haye vs Klitscko (Boxing)
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 02 Jul 11 - 06:05 PM

9 rounds gone and is well behind. Unless Haye can plant one, it's a lose for him.

Subject: RE: BS: Haye vs Klitscko (Boxing)
From: alanabit
Date: 02 Jul 11 - 06:24 PM

Haye boxed brilliantly, but I reckon he was slightly behind. The judges saw it differently, of course, and pronounced that Klitschko had thrashed him. It was a great performance from a light heavyweight, but not enough. I hope he retires now, because for all his considerable skill, he is not a real contender as a heavyweight. Inevitably a real heavyweight will emerge, but it looks as if the Klitschkos will be with us for another year or two!

Subject: RE: BS: Haye vs Klitscko (Boxing)
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 02 Jul 11 - 06:37 PM

Haye was well behind on points. his only chance was a knockout. However he did brilliant considering the size of the two. At least I don't think that this match was fixed.

Subject: RE: BS: Haye vs Klitscko (Boxing)
From: alanabit
Date: 02 Jul 11 - 06:46 PM

I don't think many punches actually landed. Klitschko landed a few jabs, but nothing like the bombardment we were expecting. Haye was just too quick. He should quit now though, because otherwise his reflexes will slow and he will take some serious damage.

Subject: RE: BS: Haye vs Klitscko (Boxing)
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 03 Jul 11 - 03:45 AM

Watched the latest UFC tournament last night. What a contrast! It's easy to see why MMA is in the ascendancy! Compared with last night's boxing bore, the UFC matches were so entertaining and exciting.

Subject: RE: BS: Haye vs Klitscko (Boxing)
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 03 Jul 11 - 05:11 AM

So Haye had a broken toe. OK so what. If he was unfit, then he shouldn't have boxed. No good saying at the end about his toe, as if that was the reason he lost. Don't like people using those excuses when they have lost.

Subject: RE: BS: Haye vs Klitscko (Boxing)
From: gnu
Date: 07 Jul 11 - 02:09 PM

He lost because he didn't fight until about halfway through the final round. If I had paid big money to be there I would have been rather upset, which, obviously, those who laid out coin voiced many times. Seems to me he knew he would only win with a knockout from the very start and had to let it wait until the later rounds to see if he could tire the "old man".

I suspect the broken toe was an excuse to cover the VERY annoying tactic of launching the top of his head into Klitscko's chest and hoping for a Haymaker or a foul. It then seemed to turn into a tactic of attempting to draw a foul. I was EXTREMELY pleased that the ref gave him an 8 after one obvious dive... never saw that done before and I was taken aback but it was better than taking a point from Haye. A rather imaginative, indeed, thoughtful in a way, and quite effective decision by the ref.

I was, however, a tad upset (one of my pet peeves) that Klitscko was allowed to measure as much as he did, so much so that it seemed like an "offensive" defense tactic. After all, it's a boxing match and not jousting!

Subject: RE: BS: Haye vs Klitscko (Boxing)
From: gnu
Date: 07 Jul 11 - 03:12 PM

BTW... I didn't watch the fight on purpose for various resons I have mentioned before. It was simple a choice at a sleepless 3AM... porno, horror or boxing on the Movie Network channels. I chose boxing as I can still throw a good punch and horror movies are worse than boxing.

I must say though, while I was watching it, the bloodlust was stirred, although, for me, it's about the fine art, technical ability, ref'ing and judging.

Subject: RE: BS: Haye vs Klitscko (Boxing)
From: alanabit
Date: 07 Jul 11 - 03:17 PM

Point taken about the head leading into the chest gnu, but these things are not easy to interpret for the intention. Haye was quite entitled to try to get in close to Klitschko where the range favoured the length of his own arms. Klitschko (I reckon) was then trying to push him down by forcing his weight upon him, forcing Haye to tire by carrying the weight of a bigger man. This is a tactic which has been used by bigger men over recent years. Lennox Lewis certainly did it - and he was also frequently guilty of holding onto his man with a glove over the neck while he rained in uppercuts from below. Haye's tactic was to go to the floor immediately, which I felt was a quite legitimate response. There is no boxing law, which I know of, which obliges the smaller man to carry the bigger man's weight. For all of Haye's skill and speed, he was too small to make much of an impression on Klitschko - and I did not think it was much of a spectacle either!

Subject: RE: BS: Haye vs Klitscko (Boxing)
From: gnu
Date: 07 Jul 11 - 03:39 PM

Wellll... the fact is ya gotta keep yer head up on accounta it's the "rules". As far as a rule saying ya don't hafta carry the weight of the bigger man, fine. But "diving" to the mat and looking at the ref (did you notice how MANY times Haye "looked at the ref"?) is just ludicrous. He was warned and finally given an 8.

Refs will always call such head down tactics as that leads to the possibilty of head butting which is HIGHLY illegal in any boxing ring in the world. Head up at all times unless you are without of range of hitting your opponent with your head. Bobbing and weaving? Fine. Bobbing and battering ramming... no way!

Anyway, the long and short of it is the FAR better BOXER won by MANY points.

Subject: RE: BS: Haye vs Klitscko (Boxing)
From: alanabit
Date: 07 Jul 11 - 03:54 PM

That is always going to be a difficult one to get right. You have to keep your chin in, of course, and there will always be a thin dividing line between doing that and ducking your head down.

As for the verdict, yes, Klitscko won. Few punches of any substance were landed by either boxer. Klitschko held the middle of the ring and he scored more direct hits. In terms of skill he was barely apprentice level compared to Haye. He did not need to be good though - only competent - and his size did the rest. We may have to agree to differ, but in my book that does not make him a far better boxer - just a bigger one. I guess if I want to see David lick Goliath I shall have to go to the movies!

Subject: RE: BS: Haye vs Klitscko (Boxing)
From: gnu
Date: 07 Jul 11 - 04:32 PM

Okay. I can live with that. Except the skill part... I did not see any skill on Haye's part because he didn't fight. He just threw wild punches while lunging... BUT... he did so for a reason as you have noted and perhaps that is the skill which made the match last 12 rounds.

In any case, he made a shitload of coin that I would never have attempted at any age against a giant. I think he deserves every penny.

Especially for running his mouth in the pre-match hype... >;-)