BS: Critters claiming Suburbia

Subject: RE: BS: Critters claiming Suburbia
From: Ron Davies
Date: 07 Jul 11 - 12:47 AM

Jan and the kids she takes care of love deer.   Her view: they were here before the white man came to North America.    She is willing to sacrifice some hostas, etc.--after all she planted them.

What she wants to save she sprays with a garlic-based solution.   Works like a charm.

Subject: RE: BS: Critters claiming Suburbia
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 02:09 PM

Elk are frequent visitors to mountain towns in or near the Rockies. Don't attack except in breeding season, but most animals go nuts at that time.
Moose can get spooked easily, I have seen one go through a tent camp site, getting tangled in tent ropes and bringing the tents down. Luckily no one got trampled. Usually they are little trouble if left alone, but in this case two children ran up to it.
In the mountains on one of those occasional warm summer days in spring, I have had mountain sheep come up to the table where out lunch was spread, begging for a handout.

Wild animals should never be fed scraps; that encourages them to be bold, and also victims of cars on mountain roads.

Subject: RE: BS: Critters claiming Suburbia
From: Ernest
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 01:35 PM

Just think of that:

Instead of Bambi you could have Chongo!

Getting my coat...

Subject: RE: BS: Critters claiming Suburbia
From: gnu
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 01:06 PM

Been done but... "Suburban yards are often separated by fences that are 6 feet high. I doubt that a deer will jump one even if he could."

A Virginia White Tailed buck can clear near twice that. I have seen them clear silver birch deadfalls on the second jump from standing still WAY too many times (I used to hunt and found them the most elusive animal in our woods... them thar huntin shows on yer TV from down in the southern States ain't REAL huntin). Of course, ours are much bigger than most with the biggest of the big upwards of 300 pounds.

I've seen videos of elk in towns out west. Seems VERY dangerous to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Critters claiming Suburbia
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 12:19 PM

Six-foot fences illegal in Calgary. Front fence 1.2 meters (3'11"), back fence 2 meters (6'6").
Similar restrictions apply in most cities. I lived in a Tulsa, Oklahoma subdivision that forbid fences altogether.

And true, only an electric fence has 'some' deterrent effect. Not perfect, as my daughter found out who tries to protect the area immediately around her house on a foothills ranch.

(Not worried about joggers, but those two-wheel bikers need to be thinned out. Outlaw club members on their Harleys are far less dangerous.)

Subject: RE: BS: Critters claiming Suburbia
From: catspaw49
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 11:02 AM

You live in Cleveland and are concerned about deer? Its Cleveland.   


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Critters claiming Suburbia
From: Rapparee
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 10:50 AM

Be happy to send some wolves and mountain lions East. Betcha they'd love NYC, Cleveland and Detroit. Lions (called "panthers" or "painters" way back when) originally had the entire country as their range until Europeans arrived.

They pass through here once in awhile. They'll eat a few housecats and small yippy dogs and head on their way. They won't attack anything much bigger than a whitetail deer, so if you're confronted by one try to make yourself look bigger and fiercer. Whatever you do, don't run -- cougars chase prey, jump on its back, and bite through the spine at the base of the skull.

Of course, cougars have been see in Chicago's Loop, among other places. They're coming back, folks, and this time they mean it! But just think: they'll help control the exploding population of joggers, and that's enviromentally sound.

Coyotes are also filling in environmental niches mankind has made. They can and do mate with domestic dogs, creating a hybrid that can be quite nasty. Remember too that the in the US rabies is endemic in the wild.

And yet...there was the couple who told their 4 year old to "climb up on that bear's shoulders and we'll take your picture."



                                                 WARNING!
The critters in these woods and cities are NOT tame. Your remains will not be returned to your next of kin.

Subject: RE: BS: Critters claiming Suburbia
From: Janie
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 12:05 AM

Many towns in North Carolina now participate in the Urban Archery Season (UAR.)

Makes good sense, as far as I am concerned.

Also agree with Q that deer are much preferable to rats and mice, though they don't compete with one another and the choice is not between which of these critters.

White-tailed deer are a native species.   Norway rats - the ones you encounter in sewers and around garbage, are decidedly not native, and harbor many more diseases than do deer.

Subject: RE: BS: Critters claiming Suburbia
From: pdq
Date: 05 Jul 11 - 10:02 PM

The West Coast has the Black-tailed and Mule Deer, the White-tailed Deer being mainly east of the Rocky Mountains. There are some in Montana, northern Idaho and northeastern Washington State, as well as a few localized herds, but they are the exception in the West.

We have the totally cute Black-tailed which probably would catch its hoofs on a 4 foot fence. Mule Deer have huge ears and look a bit weird. Also bigger.

You seldom hear about overpopulation of deer out west. They are watched and managed rather carefully and hunting tags issued based on management needs.

Subject: RE: BS: Critters claiming Suburbia
From: Janie
Date: 05 Jul 11 - 09:23 PM

pdq, I know the white-tailed deer population in the East is much larger than it was before European settlement. Is the same true for deer populations out west where you live?

In the East, not only were the main predators killed off, but felling of forests for farmland created terrific habitat for deer. White-tails can live in forest and browse on twigs and tree tips, but they love open grazing. As our own population has expanded and turned farmlands into suburbia, it is only natural that we encounter more deer. It is harder for deer to avoid us, and we plant all those lovely, tasty hostas and day-lilies for their dining pleasure. Familiarity breeds contempt, or so they say. Deer, like any other creatures, including man, habituate to other species when they have no choice but to live in close proximity.

Coyotes have spread east and their populations are spreading at an amazing rate. The increase in the deer population is probably one good reason for their expansion.

Subject: RE: BS: Critters claiming Suburbia
From: GUEST,Josepp
Date: 05 Jul 11 - 08:39 PM

////Suburban yards are often separated by fences that are 6 feet high.

I doubt that a deer will jump one even if he could.////

Not only can they jump over it, a big buck looking to assert himself will tear right through it just to do it. People don't seem to get that we're dealing with powerful, extremely fast creatures that can be utterly ferocious if they don't like you. You get hung up on a buck's antlers and you're goner.

A buddy of mine shot one through with a compound arrow and had to follow it for over two miles before it collapsed. How far do you think you could run if someone shot you all the way with an arrow? They're strong and they eat prodigious amounts.

////Deer in yer garden? Build a fence.

Build an electric one because if they're hungry enough, no other fence will stop them.

Subject: RE: BS: Critters claiming Suburbia
From: pdq
Date: 05 Jul 11 - 07:32 PM

Suburban yards are often separated by fences that are 6 feet high.

I doubt that a deer will jump one even if he could.

Deer in yer garden? Build a fence.

Subject: RE: BS: Critters claiming Suburbia
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Jul 11 - 07:18 PM

There are many more deer now than when the Europeans came and settled.
The predators- mountain lion, wolf, especially- are gone or almost so. And they have been displaced as a source of meat by cattle.

Subject: RE: BS: Critters claiming Suburbia
From: josepp
Date: 05 Jul 11 - 05:18 PM

Michigan has an enormous deer hunt every year. There's two deer seasons--one for bow and one for rifle. I think there's something like 750,000 hunters who go out and bag a few annually. Even with that, the deer population remains huge. Without culling, they would strip the woodlands of anything edible in no time--mass starvation not only of deer but of creatures who compete for the same food. The DNR would be forced to go out and shoot them from helicopters just to keep the numbers down and the population sustainable but there would be so many rotting carcasses that the water table would be threatened with contamination.

Even with all that, the animal rights loons want to ban deer-hunting in Michigan. They eat EVERYTHING. They are powerful creatures that require a lot of food. They will decimate a small area without culling.

Subject: RE: BS: Critters claiming Suburbia
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 05 Jul 11 - 05:04 PM

Some people in Cleveland are asking for a cull.

Subject: RE: BS: Critters claiming Suburbia
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Jul 11 - 04:50 PM

We have spread into their habitats and they are learning to adjust.

Rats, mice are a real problem- those critters I can't abide.

Subject: RE: BS: Critters claiming Suburbia
From: josepp
Date: 05 Jul 11 - 04:33 PM

///I'll take deer over rats any day of the week. Cringe. I've seen rats bigger than a house cat munching away on the sidewalks of NY especially after construction. They're disgusting and nothing seems to scare them.///

That's your fault for living in NY. You don't like it--move. I see rats only now and again around here with the average being no more than a foot total length. I can live with that. I can't live with larged hooved, horned critters ploughing through my yard eating my bushes, busting down my fences and crapping all over the place.

Subject: RE: BS: Critters claiming Suburbia
From: lefthanded guitar
Date: 05 Jul 11 - 01:14 PM

I'll take deer over rats any day of the week. Cringe. I've seen rats bigger than a house cat munching away on the sidewalks of NY especially after construction. They're disgusting and nothing seems to scare them.


I'm surprised you can't spook those deer away, b/c whenever I've seen deer (even the relatively tame ones in Sunken Forest, part of Fire Island National Seashore) they take off like a bolt if you so much as tap your foot.

Perhaps if you played a loud shot of music at them- like Katy Perry or Eminem or even Barry Manilow for gosh sake; it may scare them away: it sure would scare ME off your property anyways ;)

btw in the suburbs of NYC I've seen raccoons (I often have to stop my car and serve as crossing guard for a mom ringtail and babes on a deserted night road), possom, woodchucks, even a fox. As we take away more of their environment, they leak into 'our' neighborhood.' Even a coyote in Manhattan.
These 'invasive animals ' remind us that we need to preserve and extend natural habitiats.

Subject: RE: BS: Critters claiming Suburbia
From: gnu
Date: 05 Jul 11 - 12:52 PM

John... hahahahahaa!

Subject: RE: BS: Critters claiming Suburbia
From: wysiwyg
Date: 05 Jul 11 - 12:47 PM

RE-claiming suburbia....

~THe Campground Committee

Subject: RE: BS: Critters claiming Suburbia
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 05 Jul 11 - 12:22 PM

Fluorescent hats and jackets seem to keep them out of sight!

Subject: RE: BS: Critters claiming Suburbia
From: josepp
Date: 05 Jul 11 - 12:10 PM

The animal rights nuts go crazy whenever the culling of deer come up. It's incredible to me that anyone gives them the time of day but they seem to have a lot of clout. I've seen areas that are heavily wooded but the shooting of deer is illegal and during the rutting season they are everywhere. And the animal rights idiots think they are Bambi. Well, they're not. A deer can and will kick your ass without mercy. Bucks are aggressive and ferocious during the rutting season because only the toughest, meanest of them will get to mate so their evolutionary programming kicks in and they get MEAN. Also in these areas, you drive through them in the fall and there's dead deer all over the sides of the roads. And you know someone's car got totaled and if one goes through your windshield, you're dead. You'll be crushed.

There are few if any deer in my neighborhood because we're pretty urban here just outside of Detroit's city limits. What we have are rats. Rats, squirrels, possums and coons. And birds--lots of birds. When I had my house resided a couple of years ago, the contractor was amazed at all the birds nesting under the siding. So was I. I did not realize how infested my house was with birds. Too much longer and my property would have been condemned.

But the rats don't bother me. It's not like they're crawling everywhere you look anytime of day. You'll see them at night mostly. You'll be driving somewhere and one will dart out into the street. I saw a fairly big one run across my driveway the other day. But they can't get in the house or anything so I don't really care. Don't see any rabbits. The possums don't hurt anything.

But, yeah, deer would be a problem. They'd tear my yard to shreds. There's all kinds of stuff for them to munch on. I'll take rats over deer any day.

Subject: RE: BS: Critters claiming Suburbia
From: gnu
Date: 05 Jul 11 - 11:54 AM

I doubt if a bow is legal within city limits.

Subject: BS: Critters claiming Suburbia
From: CupOfTea
Date: 05 Jul 11 - 11:13 AM

This is a vent/rant/grouse/grumble.

I live in an inner-ring suburb of Cleveland, so we're talking side by side houses that have been here for best part of a century. Where I live the lots are narrow (chat to my next door neighbor across the drive as we do dishes under facing windows) but deep.

Squirrels & field mice have always been around. Rats show up when the sewers have construction going on. Skunks have been a nuisance for decades. Bunnies we have in abundance most years (Hassenpfeffer for a crowd from my back yard residents alone) I'm only a few blocks away from the Shaker Lakes, which have a wee bit of parkland around them & I live three blocks from the house I grew up in, so I know the neighborhood well.

Occasionally you'd hear of deer in the Shaker Lakes parkland, but this year we've had an infestation of deer in our yards. Shock has been the major reaction. My next door neighbor spotted the first one while breakfasting on her sunporch, she looked up to see an adult deer peering in the window at her. The neighbor on the other side is in the "Look, look, oh, aren't the baby bambis CUTE!!!!" category. I don't think I satisfied her enthusiasm, as by that time they'd lunched on the hosta plants a friend had lovingly transplanted in the bed along the drive, after extensive weeding. I had a pair of wee fawns just look at me with "duh" expressions when I tried to get them to GO AWAY.

Lord, but I miss having a dog.

Years of listening to friends in remoter places talk about the problems of co-existing with deer really didn't prepare me for it happening here: it just seemed so unlikely. A recent NPR piece about the damage deer do to ecosystems scared me too...the logical result of lots of deer was just something that the folks who encourage their introduction didn't seem to take into account - they decimate species, don't eat the junk plants, and leave nothing but grass and full grown trees in an area- having munched away at all the baby trees and low lying shrubs that are native to an area.

I know you can't shoot 'em in our 'burb.... but I'm wondering if bow hunting is considered legal. There are certainly enough folks around here who might take to venison out of need. Especially if said venison-on-the-hoof dine on their garden produce.

Joanne in the Heights of Cleveland, infested by deer.