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young people and Folk Music

olddude 11 Jul 11 - 05:05 PM
GUEST,livelylass 11 Jul 11 - 05:16 PM
Leadfingers 11 Jul 11 - 06:42 PM
stallion 11 Jul 11 - 11:07 PM
ranger1 11 Jul 11 - 11:15 PM
Phil Cooper 11 Jul 11 - 11:19 PM
Deckman 12 Jul 11 - 12:09 AM
GUEST,Suibhne Astray 12 Jul 11 - 04:27 AM
GUEST,Shimrod 12 Jul 11 - 05:15 AM
glueman 12 Jul 11 - 05:22 AM
GUEST,LDT 12 Jul 11 - 05:29 AM
GUEST,Folkboy 12 Jul 11 - 05:33 AM
Will Fly 12 Jul 11 - 05:53 AM
The Sandman 12 Jul 11 - 06:12 AM
GUEST,Suibhne Astray 12 Jul 11 - 06:51 AM
DrugCrazed 12 Jul 11 - 06:52 AM
glueman 12 Jul 11 - 08:44 AM
GUEST,livelylass 12 Jul 11 - 08:53 AM
GUEST,kate54 12 Jul 11 - 09:39 AM
Richard Bridge 12 Jul 11 - 09:56 AM
GUEST,livelylass 12 Jul 11 - 10:03 AM
GUEST,leeneia 12 Jul 11 - 10:20 AM
GUEST,Suibhne Astray 12 Jul 11 - 10:44 AM
AllisonA(Animaterra) 12 Jul 11 - 01:31 PM
ranger1 12 Jul 11 - 04:17 PM
olddude 12 Jul 11 - 06:43 PM
Richard Bridge 12 Jul 11 - 07:01 PM
Herga Kitty 12 Jul 11 - 08:18 PM
Bounty Hound 12 Jul 11 - 08:37 PM
ripov 12 Jul 11 - 10:17 PM
DrugCrazed 13 Jul 11 - 03:50 AM
Howard Jones 13 Jul 11 - 03:50 AM
GUEST,Suibhne Astray 13 Jul 11 - 04:47 AM
olddude 13 Jul 11 - 11:16 AM
paula t 13 Jul 11 - 12:20 PM
The Sandman 13 Jul 11 - 12:39 PM
The Sandman 14 Jul 11 - 08:36 AM
GUEST 24 Aug 11 - 04:12 PM
GUEST,FloraG 25 Aug 11 - 03:07 AM
Musket 25 Aug 11 - 03:53 AM
GUEST 25 Aug 11 - 04:40 AM
theleveller 25 Aug 11 - 04:42 AM
banjoman 25 Aug 11 - 06:09 AM
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Subject: young people and Folk Music
From: olddude
Date: 11 Jul 11 - 05:05 PM

Lately it has been kinda interesting. I play in my park about every night. Just sit on the bench and practice. Many of the young high school kids come over sit and listen and talk to me. To them the music is great, not because of me, but because they never heard that kind of music before. I have to remind myself that these kids grew up with rap, and grunge rock and modern country. So folk music is new to them. I wish radio stations would start playing it again even just once a week on a show. Outside of the PBS type of thing. We tend to think that the young hate our music. I am finding that is completely wrong. It is so new to them that they get into it.

One kid with his 16 year old girlfriend said, "can you play that song about old joes bar" ... His sixteen year old girlfriend said .. "Dah Tim it is called St. James Infirmary Blues"   I just smiled. To them it was a brand new song ..

folk could again be very much alive and well .. If we had a mainstream way of introducing it to the young I think


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Subject: RE: young people and Folk Music
From: GUEST,livelylass
Date: 11 Jul 11 - 05:16 PM

My partner & I popped down our live music pub to see a local folk-rock outfit, it shocked me that he enjoyed them so much. Ironically, many die-hard folkies would have hated the Irish songs because they've been "sung to death", yet folkies forget that most people (particularly anyone under forty) haven't been involved in the folk scene for forty years, so what may be a boring old outworn song to those involved the folk scene, can be a brand-new enjoyable song to those who aren't involved the folk scene - and most people, particularly young people, don't even know that the "folk-scene" exists at all.


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Subject: RE: young people and Folk Music
From: Leadfingers
Date: 11 Jul 11 - 06:42 PM

Its not as bad in UK as in US I feel ! Festivals are crowded with talented young players and a lot of sessions have their share of good young performers . They just seem to avoid the Folk Clubs full of Boring old farts like me !


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Subject: RE: young people and Folk Music
From: stallion
Date: 11 Jul 11 - 11:07 PM

No nay never Terry!


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Subject: RE: young people and Folk Music
From: ranger1
Date: 11 Jul 11 - 11:15 PM

Well, I've been torturing my nephew with folk music since he was a little tyke. We stopped for a while to listen to a young 20-something playing fiddle tunes on the street, and I noticed that Austin was really enjoying the music. I must be doing something right. Part of it is agreeing to listen to "his" music, too, though.


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Subject: RE: young people and Folk Music
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 11 Jul 11 - 11:19 PM

I've noticed that when young people hear us,they like what we do. If there's a group of them, they're not as inclined. So, it's corrupt one at a time.


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Subject: RE: young people and Folk Music
From: Deckman
Date: 12 Jul 11 - 12:09 AM

Interesting thread ... thanks for starting it. I recently had an eye opening experience. We took a 19 year old young lady into our home for a week's concentrated music studies. We spent about three hours a day, one hour at a time, working on the basics. In the evenings, we'd peruse the internet, as well as my private collection, and listen and critique a lot of traditional folk music.

One evening I decided to reverse the roles and asked her to play me some of "her music." After seriously concentrating, and minding my mouth, we agreed that the "new music" today doesn't even come close to what she finds attractive about traditional folk music.

I'm not at all surprised that some youngsters are noticing this music ... it speaks to many generations. And I also agree with the comment that if you can separate youngsters from "the pack", it'll be easier for them to connect. CHEERS, bob(deckman)nelson


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Subject: RE: young people and Folk Music
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 12 Jul 11 - 04:27 AM

Another depressingly ageist thread from grizzled old folkies who've lost touch with their own youth. I spend a lot of my time telling kids to keep away from folk: it's not clever, it's not healthy and it can ruin lives. Folk is the menacing old tramp lurking on the fringes of musical culture, it looks on at youth with envy and bitterness. Worry not, it will pass.

Seriously, I'd say there was nothing to worry about; people will listen to what they want to listen to regardless. And, even at a Folk Youthful 49, these days might I often find myself the OLDEST in a Folk Context (as on the recent Oak Ash Thorn CD and other Spleen related projects) but seldom a Folk Club, where I always feel (and very often am MADE to feel) young. I'm used to that. Back when I started going to folk clubs I was looked at as mad by my prog/punk peers (most of whom tried it once and vowed never to go again) and with suspicion by the (usually unwelcoming) folkies. That said, every Folk Club might still attract it's younger members who invariably have their own thing going on as well; I've noticed a lot of these have folk parents though so I don't suppose that counts.

Talking about Folk Paarents: both my kids (22 & 30) hate Folk with a passion and bombard me with all manner of drum & bass, hip-hop, dub step etc. etc. I am very proud of them.

I find that if you separate Old Folkies from the Pack, they're a lot more tolerant of other types of music. To paraphrase Pink Floyd: Hey, Folky, leave those kids alone.


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Subject: RE: young people and Folk Music
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 12 Jul 11 - 05:15 AM

I recently read an account of my home town's first folk club. You see back in the early 1960s a number of local young people discovered folk music ...


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Subject: RE: young people and Folk Music
From: glueman
Date: 12 Jul 11 - 05:22 AM

The idea of clubs generally turn off young people, not just folk. From experience of my own children they don't mind joining one if it's a straight in there and doing kind of thing, but they have no time for proper form, deference or waiting to be 'accepted'.

Clubs are, I suspect, a way of organising things that peaked in the post-WW2 years and looking at their declining numbers, will die out in their current form.


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Subject: RE: young people and Folk Music
From: GUEST,LDT
Date: 12 Jul 11 - 05:29 AM

I find 'folk' music is quite an expensive and time consuming hobby. (Yes I did say hobby).
There are transport costs, ticket costs, if you play an instruments the cost of purchasing said instrument.
Also the time taken up traveling to see artists, sessions, practicing playing for sessions.
As a kid this would have been impossible with 50p pocket money, having tones of homework and being in single parent family on benefits.
Now as an adult (but considered 'young' - I'm in my mid twenties) I have some disposable income but not much and fit everything round full time work. (with added inconvenience of not driving).
I go to sessions and festivals and the odd gig when I save up (as they are always miles away cost of train tickets and accommodation adds up). Never been to a folk club...as the only one near enough is on the wrong day for me. I'm not put off by older people....you get much more intelligent conversations with them than people my age and younger.


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Subject: RE: young people and Folk Music
From: GUEST,Folkboy
Date: 12 Jul 11 - 05:33 AM

Not all young people avoid folk clubs. Lucy Ward (21) is playing Belper Folk Club tonight, Valley Folk Club Pontardawe on Friday and Folk at the Manor on the Wirral on Sunday. Lots of young folk at festivals just check out the bill at Priddy Folk Festival this weekend cram packed with talented and interesting young acts. We need young performers in the folk clubs to help bring in youngeraudiences to help sustain the clubs and the tradition.


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Subject: RE: young people and Folk Music
From: Will Fly
Date: 12 Jul 11 - 05:53 AM

It's interesting to read in the writings of Dickens and his contemporaries of 'supper clubs' meeting in the City of London. These were mainly organised by young clerks and others of that ilk. They were held in private rooms in inns and taverns, usually had a chairman and, after supper, each person in the company contributed a song. There would be toasts - and drinking, and tobacco. An exclusively male gathering, and probably a "lower-class" one, and almost certainly a young one (20s to mid-30s).

What we don't know (or at least, I don't know) is what was being sung. We might guess at popular songs and ballads of the day - not music hall, because these clubs flourished some decades before music hall proper and, in fact, were probably one amongst many early ancestors of music hall.

So, the concept of clubs bringing together people for an evening of food, drink and song - has existed for hundreds of years. Dare we suppose that some of what we call 'traditional' songs found its way there?


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Subject: RE: young people and Folk Music
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Jul 11 - 06:12 AM

The idea of clubs generally turn off young people, not just folk.quote.   
not in ireland they dont you have singers clubs attended by young people as well as youth clubs. football clubs, rowing clubs, youth clubs are attended by the young.


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Subject: RE: young people and Folk Music
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 12 Jul 11 - 06:51 AM

I remember once telling stories in Gateshead - at the Garden Festival as I recall; a great day for sure & good money too. I did one story using my old First-Batch Faedog penny whistles circa 1984 - one of my favourite whistles and quite unlike later Faedogs. Amongst my audience was a boy of nine, watching me closely. Afterwards he asked about my whistle, and asked for a go; ordinarily I refuse (the standard line being: you don't my germs & I certainly don't want yours) but he was quite persitent, saying he'd never heard a whistle quite like it. So I let him have a blow.

Well, there's a word of warning right there, if you want to retain your dignity in Tyneside, never let a nine-year-old boy play your whistle. Needless to say he had us all dancing in the palm of his hand with his effortless handling of material I couldn't even have began to think about playing.

Then again I've met such kids in later life who said they no longer bothered; indeed, I was recently trying out an lovely old fiddle in a music shop when one of the heavy-metal guitarists cocked his ear to my efforts and, more impressed by the vintage instrument, asked if he could have a go. What he played was a flawless Rakes of Kildare. He said he used to do Irish music as a kid but got bored with it and didn't play any more - didn't even have a fiddle. Then he went back to trying out the electric guitars, doing Traditional Music closer to his heart I guess - and rightly so.

Each to their own.


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Subject: RE: young people and Folk Music
From: DrugCrazed
Date: 12 Jul 11 - 06:52 AM

Hey, I don't want more young people in folk clubs! Then I wouldn't be the youngest!


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Subject: RE: young people and Folk Music
From: glueman
Date: 12 Jul 11 - 08:44 AM

The interesting point from my pov, is folk festivals do not lack for young people.


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Subject: RE: young people and Folk Music
From: GUEST,livelylass
Date: 12 Jul 11 - 08:53 AM

Agreed, younger peeps are far more likely to try out a music festival than go to a club. Possibly because the festival scene is very inclusive - you will find acoustic roots and folk rock acts at generic music fests. Plus at a festival you can mooch about and do what you want without grown-ups tut-tutting at the annoying teens drinking too much and being silly. It's like a holiday vibe rather than sitting in a library.


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Subject: RE: young people and Folk Music
From: GUEST,kate54
Date: 12 Jul 11 - 09:39 AM

I was fourteen when my parents took me to my first folk club, and I was completely hooked! I was the youngest one there. My parents interest waned very quickly, but..... I am now nearly 60 and one of the youngest that attend the few folk clubs we have here in Cornwall.U.K. However, when I lived nearer to "civilisation", there was a groundswell of young "folkies", supremely talented musicians and singers, that enthralled me and continue to do so. I'm sure I know a few die-hards that eschew anything under 70 as immature, but the rest of us love 'em!


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Subject: RE: young people and Folk Music
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Jul 11 - 09:56 AM

There are modern songs that would translate well into the folk idiom. Of course they would not be folk songs, but they'd still be fun. There is one of Arch Enemy's that I have a mind to re-arrange but I have not done it yet.


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Subject: RE: young people and Folk Music
From: GUEST,livelylass
Date: 12 Jul 11 - 10:03 AM

Re: modern (well almost modern) songs being folked, I experienced an entirely unexpected conversion over this Cher hit:

Gypsies Tramps & Thieves


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Subject: RE: young people and Folk Music
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 12 Jul 11 - 10:20 AM

There are two aspects to what olddude is doing. sure, he's playing music for them.

But he's also offering personal, live attention, and people today (especially the young) are not getting enough of that. They get a lot of simulated electronic attention (IM, texts, e-mail, Facebook, twitter) but that isn't as good as true personal interaction.
==========
"Any adult who will TALK to them!" (an exclamation from a friend of mine who is high up in an upscale school system)

"Children today spell 'love' T-I-M-E." (from a psychologist in the newspaper.)


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Subject: RE: young people and Folk Music
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 12 Jul 11 - 10:44 AM

There are modern songs that would translate well into the folk idiom. Of course they would not be folk songs, but they'd still be fun.

What about the Old Songs that have been translated into a Folk Idiom? Are they not folk songs either? In fact, once a song is sung in a Revival Context, and in the Idioms thereof (which, of course are not folk) maybe it ceases truly to be a folk song, seeing as the person singing it is not truly a folk singer, but merely an interpreter of folk song. It's a dead end, no longer living, no longer breathing, no longer capable of reproducing itself in any way that isn't likely to result in hideous mutations rather than pure-bred variations. Similarly once a song is collected, it ceases to be a folk song, but rather just one of an infinite number of possible variations that a folk song can give rise to in it's natural habitat, each one apable of reproducing itself, yet never once repeating itself and entirely innocent of itself, much as the singers of such songs were innocent of being folk singers until they were told otherwise. Once they became folk singers their purity was compromised and the whole thing tainted.

The solution is the enployment of invisible multi-dimensional time-travelling folk song collectors who are able to collect the songs as and when the singers sing them, and thus follow the Lives of any given song from its seed vision to its eventual branches, thus giving us a better idea of how these things happen. By chance, by design, by way of purposeful creativity or just entropy after all. As time travel's a long way off we must make do with what we've got, but then again maybe we're surrounded by invisible time-travelling folklorists and anthropolists as we write, eagerly collecting our every utterance.


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Subject: RE: young people and Folk Music
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 12 Jul 11 - 01:31 PM

Ironically, many die-hard folkies would have hated the Irish songs because they've been "sung to death"... what may be a boring old outworn song to those involved the folk scene, can be a brand-new enjoyable song to those who aren't involved the folk scene

Very good point, livelylass- I was recently at a new "celtic" session in a nearby town, and was touched at how excited a couple of talented young 20-something brothers were at having recently discovered "Wild Rover", "Wild Colonial Boy" and a few others of that ild. I gave them "Wild Mountain Thyme" (in keeping with the wild theme) and they were very moved by it.


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Subject: RE: young people and Folk Music
From: ranger1
Date: 12 Jul 11 - 04:17 PM

What I've noticed is that a lot of the younger set are getting into folk through the "back door". They're listening to groups like the Dropkick Murphys and Flogging Molly and tracing the songs backwards, frequently through You Tube. It's how J-boy discovered folk, too.


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Subject: RE: young people and Folk Music
From: olddude
Date: 12 Jul 11 - 06:43 PM

leeneia
I think you maybe right, one of the kids runs home and gets his guitar and plays along with my songs. probably because all the kids I do talk to them about the history of a song or how I wrote one of my songs or about guitars in general ... Maybe you hit the nail there my dear friend .. I was amazed how the little girl remembered the name of the song .. you may just be correct, it is more about the attention I give them and the time I take talking to them. They do seem to thrive on it... Not because of me, but just that some adult had enough patience to talk. I do it cause I love the kids, they are wonderful and make me smile. I gave the kid that played music with me one of my classical guitars yesterday. He was blown away. He was saving his money to buy one but I was so taken that the kid plays hours and hours each day that I thought he deserved a decent guitar that I never play.

I think kids today are great, we all just need to take some time. But I will say they seem to love the music


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Subject: RE: young people and Folk Music
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Jul 11 - 07:01 PM

That, Sweeney, is idiotic.


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Subject: RE: young people and Folk Music
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 12 Jul 11 - 08:18 PM

I really enjoyed hearing 17 year-old Sunjay Brayne last weekend!

Kitty


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Subject: RE: young people and Folk Music
From: Bounty Hound
Date: 12 Jul 11 - 08:37 PM

From Phil Cooper earlier in the thread:

'I've noticed that when young people hear us,they like what we do. If there's a group of them, they're not as inclined. So, it's corrupt one at a time.'

Spot on Phil, peer pressure takes over, they worry about their street cred with their mates and say don't like that. So you are right, corrupt one at a time.

Will say that the other point earlier about there being no lack of youngsters at festivals is also very true, The Bounty Hounds did shows at both The Merry Tom Folk Festival and Ely Folk Festival over the last weekend, loads of late teens/early twenties in the audience at both. How we get them into the clubs though........

John


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Subject: RE: young people and Folk Music
From: ripov
Date: 12 Jul 11 - 10:17 PM

Why do you want the kids in clubs listening to music, surely they need to be PLAYING it? In sessions, in pubs, in village halls, in their bedrooms, in shop doorways....The important thing about folk music is that folk make it. Come on, do you really enjoy waiting an hour then singing/playing one number? And do you think active kids have that sort of patience?


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Subject: RE: young people and Folk Music
From: DrugCrazed
Date: 13 Jul 11 - 03:50 AM

"How we get them into clubs though..."

Simple. Chloroform and/or blackjack.


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Subject: RE: young people and Folk Music
From: Howard Jones
Date: 13 Jul 11 - 03:50 AM

Why this assumption that young people don't like clubs? The folk clubs were started by young people, and used to be full of them. The problem is that we've all grown older, and I can understand young people not wanting to hang around with old people. Although, as LDT has found, once they do age doesn't seem to matter.

I actually see no shortage of young people getting involved in the music, and many of the sessions I go to seem to be full of them. What is a bit disappointing is their apparent lack of awareness of what went before (but I'm sure the older generation said that about us too). In time my generation came to seek out and learn from the older players - not many of the youngsters seem to understand that yet, but hopefully they will in time.


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Subject: RE: young people and Folk Music
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 13 Jul 11 - 04:47 AM

That, Sweeney, is idiotic.

Only by way of poiting of the idiocy of many folk assumptions and orthodoxies anyway. Indeed, only when we come up with a crack team of Independent Time Travelling Invisible Folk Song Collectors who are capable of recording every single utterance of any given Folk Song in an oral context and subjecting their findings to rigourous peer-reviewed metaanalysis that we might think of Folk Song research as being in any way scientific. Until then, it remains tentative taxonomy with respect of wonky taxidermy and hardly the basis for anything firmer than orthodox pedantry and personal faith, fascinating though that may be.

(Sorry, that was another facetious post. I've got serious work to do here so I'm using Mudcat by way procrastination...)


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Subject: RE: young people and Folk Music
From: olddude
Date: 13 Jul 11 - 11:16 AM

The kid I gave the guitar to, his parents called me to thank me. They said he starts playing in the morning and goes on all day. His mom told me he wakes up at night to check on it to make sure it wasn't a dream LOL .. hey maybe I helped create another lightfoot who knows. The kids are amazing, maybe I just miss mine so much .. Their little girlfriends with the braided hair listening to them play music with me.. adorable ... so much fun to play for the young kids who seem to really enjoy it. I told them, if a song survived over 100 years, then it has to be a great song right. So think of folk music that way, music created by ordinary people that stood the test of time


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Subject: RE: young people and Folk Music
From: paula t
Date: 13 Jul 11 - 12:20 PM

What a lovely post, Olddude. that's what it's all about.


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Subject: RE: young people and Folk Music
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Jul 11 - 12:39 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IR-98v7-H_U, her is petra jones singning a song wriiten by her dad mick jones
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IR-98v7-H_U


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Subject: RE: young people and Folk Music
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Jul 11 - 08:36 AM

I have a number of music pupils, who I have got interested in british irish and american folk music, all of them are 20 years of age or even younger.


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Subject: RE: young people and Folk Music
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 04:12 PM

FOLK MUSIC
It's not as bad as it sounds





Cribbed from a postcard I saw a few weeks ago


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Subject: RE: young people and Folk Music
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 03:07 AM

I overheard a young red cross assistant saying how much to her surprise she had enjoyed the jez Low concert at Broadstairs. Another convert.
FloraG.


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Subject: RE: young people and Folk Music
From: Musket
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 03:53 AM

I agree with Leadfinger. Festivals show us that the folk tradition has moved on beyond the baby boomers.

However, sing around sessions require an acquired taste. If you have the taste, then you will have a great night, but you can't tell people that to appreciate a musical style you have to buy the T shirt...


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Subject: RE: young people and Folk Music
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 04:40 AM

I'd like to hear from some young people....but I won't hold my breath.


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Subject: RE: young people and Folk Music
From: theleveller
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 04:42 AM

Above was me on new computer.


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Subject: RE: young people and Folk Music
From: banjoman
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 06:09 AM

It really does not matter wether or not young people are going to folk clubs. Its more important that they are getting involved in music of all genres.My 2 sons are both brilliant musicians but claim (tongue in cheek I hope)to have learnt nothing from me or their mum who have both been around the scene for more years than I can count. Both were brought up in a house filled with music and instruments and both came to clubs and festivals when they were young. We still encourage youngsters to get involved and still give the odd lesson.
We spent the last 21 years playing for Hobby Horse Club at Broadstairs festival and count as friends many now well known artists whose first introduction to "Folk Music" was listening to our band at HHC.


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