Sidmouth Festival as it happens

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens
From: Steve in Sidmouth
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 05:12 AM

I obviously have a suspicious nature.

I am reliably informed that the Press Release was genuine.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens
From: Steve in Sidmouth
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 05:09 PM

I would have expected it on the official website! No sign - and it would be a major announcement surely?

Doesn't add up somehow.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 05:04 PM

Any fule can spoof word properties, but not many fules send out genuine press releases as word documents - an inherently insecure format. I'd have expected a pdf.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens
From: Steve in Sidmouth
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 04:26 PM

This may be a wind-up - if so it has been done quite well -

I have received information that Joan Crump is leaving Sidmouth FolkWeek as its Artistic Director.

I can't find any other discussion on this topic so.......

The details are on this webpage

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens
From: GUEST,dAZBO AT WORK
Date: 18 Aug 11 - 12:02 PM

My highlights:

John Kirkpatrick's farmer's year in song
Nidi d'Arac - brilliant live performance - shame so few there to see it
Blackbeard's Tea Party - my find of the festival (didn't get to see EiT)
Anxo (?) brilliant Gallician piper
Morris on show
Larkrise Band

BTW if the "boasting" performer is who I think it is my impression was not excess of boozing or anything like that just having a good time meeting up with friends and singing too much and as far as I'm concerned it didn't detract one iota from the gig

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens
From: Steve in Sidmouth
Date: 18 Aug 11 - 10:02 AM

Memo to all scientists.

Do not get distracted reading mudcat whilst experimenting with a hot apple and blackberry mixture.

Photographic evidence has been disallowed.

All discussion will be viewed as disloyalty.

Videos showcasing the UK's lead role in many other areas of science can be accessed via the Kent Science Park website

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 17 Aug 11 - 05:32 PM

My Two Pennorth.
Did PA every day, either the Bedford or the Manor. All the artists were brilliant, accomodating, friendly ....Turned up for sound checks on time etc...A real joy to work with. Real professionals. (Whether they thought the same about my mixes, I couldn't possibly comment!) Thanks Sidmouth for booking me. Can I come back next year?

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 18 Aug 11 - 02:41 PM

Thank you all for missing me!

Has anyone noticed that the discussion about my treatment hasn't been commented on at all by the Sidmouth staff? I would say they have had strict instructions not to comment at all as they would be speaking on his behalf and it could be seen as getting involved and taking sides.

No, i've had no apology.

Cc Jon Braithwaite. (whoops)

Sal

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 03:08 PM

"Professionalism" shouldn't be about covering up, it should be about rising above those kind of difficulties and coming through with a good performance.

Agreed.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 02:29 PM

Entoning "hopefully draw a line under this whole discussion" doesn't really go well when matched with comments that are liable to stoke up the discussion.

Every performer feels below par on particular occasions, for all kinds of reasons. It might be a hangover, it might be a touch of the lurgy or whatever. Sometimes it's their fault, sometimes it isn't. Sometimes it shows, sometimes it doesn't.

To me one of the aspects of the folk scene that I value is the sense that performers are close enough to the audience to be able to be relaxed and open about that kind of thing in the way you would be with friends.

"Professionalism" shouldn't be about covering up, it should be about rising above those kind of difficulties and coming through with a good performance.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 09:31 AM

Matt: yes, all is relative. If you have run festivals or events, you'll know that each situation is individual, and requires an individual judgement call.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 09:22 AM

"worse for wear" is all relative anyway.

some people's "worse for wear" is a million times better than penty of other perfomers' "top of their game".

Does it work the other way round? Maybe Sidmouth performers should begin their sets with the words: "I am the greatest performer there has ever been, and this is the best gig you will ever have heard".

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 09:08 AM

Has Sally received an apology yet, for the appalling way she was talked about, by the Director of the folk week?

It seems, from reading this that her Lemonade Lady stall was missed by folks this year.

I was going to go but that email kept sticking in my head...and in the end I couldn't bring myself to trek all that way, for a folk week now seemingly run by some folks who seem to have adoptd a somewhat Corporate B*stard attitude, which should, surely, be the very antisthesis of how to run a folk festival....

Stevie Scarlett, thank you for posting about this sorry affair on your site.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 08:42 AM

Can I just hopefully draw a line under this whole discussion about "professionalism" and artists being worse for wear on stage?

Regardless of your perception of what "folk" means, at the end of the day this is an issue of respect. Personally, I don't think "folk" is an excuse for someone to be worse for wear on stage. Have a nice time, enjoy yourself, be a part of the festival, but if you are performing and being paid for that performance, don't have so little respect for the audience (and your fellow performers) that your performance is below par because you've had too much to drink. Don't embarrass the MC and the audience because everyone can tell you're pissed and you give a rambling, shambolic performance. If you have an early performance or a workshop the next day (that you've agreed to, have been contracted to do and are being paid for) turn up on time, well prepared and ready to work - it's the least those people who have turned up to see you deserve.

If there are people who think this approach isn't "folk" enough, I'm sorry, but as a programmer I have a responsibility to the thousands of people who have paid for tickets and who have a right to expect certain minimum standards of performance. This isn't a session or a singaround, it's a paid gig at a big festival - an opportunity that many people would give their eye teeth for.

I realise that this discussion has centred around remarks made by a performer who may or may not have turned in a below-par performance, and who may or may not have been serious, and whose words may or may not have been misconstrued. I would never penalise an artist I've booked based strictly on hearsay, but if someone brings such a matter to my attention it is certainly my duty to at least try and find out what happened.

Investigating what happened does not mean that an artist will be penalised. It simply means I have a better awareness of what has happened at the festival - which is part of my job.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens
From: GUEST,Ebor_Fiddler
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 05:26 PM

Hear! Hear!

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 04:21 PM

Missed getting to Sidmouth this year - but delighted to find a card in my letterbox this week from a bunch of people from the Irish Songs Concert August 20th, saying they missed me and wishing me well after my heart problems earlier this year. Thanks everyone, and I hope to be back!!
...............

As for the complaint by GUEST,moira(flyingcat) gripe about a performer who seems to have been making a pretty traditional remark in this context, she must have led a pretty sheltered life in folk. There are aspects of that term "professional" which I don't think belong too well in our culture. (As for the comment by Derek, I find that a bit bewildering.)

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens
From: freda underhill
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 12:04 PM

I had a fantastic time at my second Sidmouth (the first ten years earlier). For a start, I wouldn't have got there without Leadfingers, who very kindly picked me up from the airport, gave me a room for the night and took me the next day. Sessions everywhere, great performers, lovely catters, the hilarious Doom and misery (or whatever its called) competition with some very straight faced judges, The Young Uns, the Transports, the Spookies, Nancy Wallace, Jacquie Oates, + more.. Meeting up with Catters I met at Towersey in 2004, and meeting some new ones. Spending time with Quantock and Jennyo, and hearing some of Quantock's Somerset songs that he's singing. John Kirkpatrick, Martin Winding-Road, James and Nancy..

I'll definitely be back..

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens
From: vectis
Date: 12 Aug 11 - 04:33 PM

I missed my lemonade stop too.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens
From: GUEST,Sidmouthlocal_GUEST
Date: 12 Aug 11 - 07:41 AM

I had a great week and my highlight was definately Karine Polwart's Tuesday evening concert. Just brilliant but where were you all?

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 03:05 PM

I'd like to complain about the lack of unprofessionalism.

How can we possibly hope to interest the young people of today in folk music, when a festival appears akin to a Prefects' Annual Convention?

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens
From: GUEST,Kate C
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 01:04 PM

Don't do it Moira FC!
A festival organiser asking the audience to snitch on a performer is not only unethical and censorial, it is, itself, unprofessional. No-one else here has complained about the performer - despite many knowing who it is - and why not? Because it was harmless. And because LOADS of performers were doing it. And because, as Richard Bridge rightly says, loads of performers have always done it. And most any folk performer will tell you that they've been inspired by late night sessions (and the kind of artists whose spirit drives such sessions).
It's a sad indication of the conservatism of the scene that this is even being discussed, never mind pursued.
Shame on you Sidmouth.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 11:49 AM

Wasn't it Ozzie Osborne who said "In what other job can you reel up, out of your head, whisky bottle in hand, and have people say "Wow, he's going to be great tonight""?

We've probably all seen Joplin, Jansch, Renbourn, Graham and Sly Stone (if he could find the stadium) and Keef do it, and indeed what about Winehouse about whom most others here were raving the other week?

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens
From: GUEST,George Smith
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 11:43 AM

Re professionalism; I can remember at one of the Loughborough festivals in the 70's a concert given by Alex Campbell, whiskey bottle in hand, but what a brilliant performance and no complaints

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens
From: Howard Jones
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 06:54 AM

I think we should be careful not to judge this matter without knowing more about it. The tone of the comment is crucial, depending on whether it was a boast, an excuse/apology in advance, or simply a bit of banter with an audience who had probably also stayed up late. Whether or not the performance actually was below par is also relevant.

Moira has been invited to provide more details to the Sidmouth committee, and they should be left to deal with it as they see fit.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens
From: Leadfingers
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 05:48 AM

Any 'Artist' performing for Money to people who are paying for that performance has a duty to be professional in his approach to that performance !

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens
From: Steve Hunt
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 05:00 AM

My own highlights included: Peggy Seeger, Maggie Holland, Nancy Wallace, Alasdair Roberts, Tommy McCarthy, Brian Cunningham, Yiddish Twist Orchestra, Nancy Kerr & James Fagan, Damien O'Kane Band, Old Swan Band, Pound & Walsh, Freya, Abbot, Ferguson, Shropshire Bedlams, The Transports and LOADS of other stuff

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens
From: Steve Hunt
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 04:57 AM

Ebor Fiddler wrote: "All this whining on about "professionalism" as far as I can see undermines the whole ethos of the "folk" movement, putting in a totally unwanted "them and us" division between those of us who happen to be "onstage" and those of us sat down at any particular time."

I think that the your point about the principles of the folk movement is worth raising. However, at an event like Sidmouth, no-one just "happens" to be on stage - the fact is that some festival participants are contracted to perform for money, and some pay money for a ticket. That simple economic fact does, inevitably, create a different set of expectations. As Ruth Archer has already said, it's all about getting the balance right.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens
From: Alan Day
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 03:53 AM

I missed you Sal
Al XX

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 03:44 AM

Like

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens
From: GUEST,Ebor_Fiddler
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 03:25 AM

Were we there as presentation critics or to enjoy ourselves? This part of the discussion reminds me very much of the time when we were at a Waterson-Carthy do and one strait-laced woman complained about us singing the chorus (while being encouraged by Norma to join in) because it spoiled the "concert". We unconverted '60's leftovers ignored her and sang on.
All this whining on about "professionalism" as far as I can see undermines the whole ethos of the "folk" movement, putting in a totally unwanted "them and us" division between those of us who happen to be "onstage" and those of us sat down at any particular time.

Rant over!

Chris.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens ,
From: Leadfingers
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 06:12 PM

Whoever the artist was , and wether he/she did a good show or not a comment about carousing til the early hours does not strike me as a very professional intro to a concert set !

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens
From: GUEST,suegorgeous
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 06:12 PM

"...audiences have the right to expect that an artist isn't enjoying themselves so much that it interferes with their ability to deliver the performance for which they are being paid and the audience is paying. I've been in the audience at another festival where artists excused a below-par performance by telling us they'd been out on the razzle the night before, and found it rather disrespectful and unprofessional."

Ruth - I couldn't agree more. But Moira hasn't said there was a below-par performance, or that their ability to deliver was impaired. I'm glad you'll check it out. But I hope you won't penalise a performer purely for a harmless bit of banter. I don't agree such banter in itself is unprofessional.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 05:47 PM

Hi there. Derek won't deal with it himself - he'll pass the information on, and depending on who the artist is and what I can find out about was actually said, I might have a chat with them. Or I might not. I would agree with everything that's been said on both sides, funnily enough. Sidmouth is great because the artists socialise, participate in sessions, and are part of things in a way that they aren't at many other festivals. On the other hand, audiences have the right to expect that an artist isn't enjoying themselves so much that it interferes with their ability to deliver the performance for which they are being paid and the audience is paying. I've been in the audience at another festival where artists excused a below-par performance by telling us they'd been out on the razzle the night before, and found it rather disrespectful and unprofessional.

As with so many things, it's about balance. :)

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens
From: GUEST,suegorgeous
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 05:24 PM

I agree with VT. I find it a bit concerning that this performer may be penalised for a throwaway bit of banter that had no bearing on his/her performance. How will you deal with this, Derek?

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens
From: GUEST,Morris Barry
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 06:01 AM

Enough moaning, back to the highlights!

There was an excellent afternoon in the Anchor gardens with a concert from Lady Maisery followed by the Young 'uns.
The Melrose Quartet gig in the Methodist Church as wonderful although very, very hot.
The Spookey men were their normal entertaining selves.

Great festival.

Still recovering from the price of beer though!!!

Barry

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 04:44 AM

Noted Moira and I will pass along in the team meeting next year, provided I am put on Manor Pavilion duty.

Re the performer with questionable professionalism. I believe I was at that show and the performer in my estimation did not boast nor make excuse. Simply stated voice was rough due to party (for a friend) attended the night before. I did not know performers were not permitted to have a social life prior to performance. Still delivered a good show and the light hearted banter was in no way off putting to me.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens
From: Leadfingers
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 09:53 PM

I did Sal !! No Fresh Lemonade at a sensible price in Blackmore Gardens !!!

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 08:45 PM

I had a lovely visit on the last day. Popped in at The Middle Bar session, The Bedford, a snoop around The Blackmore Gardens, and ate a pastie and some ice cream.

You didn't miss me at all.

Sal
80)

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 05:36 PM

Moira (flying cat): you've not yet emailed me to tell me the name of the artist who boasted of their over-indulgence. If you email me in confidence, we will know for the future. My email address is on the media page of the website.
Thanks
Derek

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens
From: GUEST,moira(flyingcat)
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 05:25 PM

Thanks for your comments Viginia Tam but I think you have actually missed my point which was the fact that people were allowed in while performers were singing rather than waiting till the applause at the end of a song/tune. If a sign was available to say "please do not enter till you hear applause" people could then come in and get to available empty seats before the performer started their next song/tune,thus keeping any disruption to a minimum. I hope
this clarifys my comment.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 02:18 PM

As a steward of the Manor Pavilion I would like to respond to Moira flyingcat's concern. I am sorry for your disappointment.

However empty seats equals unnecessarily disappointed paying customers and possibly lost revenue for the festival. It would make it less disruptive for everyone if the audience members moved along to close up spaces leaving empty seats at the ends of rows to facilitate this.

At particularly popular shows last year stewards have asked the audience to move along. Perhaps at team meeting in future years we can address this so all stewards know they can and should ask the audience to close up spaces prior to the show in order to avoid this disruption.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens
From: Sven Baserat
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 10:24 AM

Sally and I really enjoyed Sidmouth this year and that late afternoon session at the Bedford was a lovely way to finish the week. I've got some good photos of the session I can send you if you pm me Dave.

Steve & Sally

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens
From: naughtyforty
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 08:05 AM

I had a fab festival as usual - highlights were the Run Ashore on Tuesday, Spooky Men on Wednesday. I also went to a session at the Rugby Club which I really enjoyed and visited the cricket club - two thngs I haven't done before - roll on next year!!

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens
From: The Barden of England
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 07:19 AM

Richard - haven't been too well the last couple of days (usual summer cold and cough) but I was determined to not have a hangover this year, so I didn't. The Cava on the patio flowed as usual, but my intake was much lower than usual, Q.E.D.
John Barden

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens
From: Howard Jones
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 07:19 AM

Moira, I understand your point of view, but I think you're missing the point of a festival like Sidmouth. What makes a festival more than just a series of concerts is that the performers are not only to be found on-stage but actively participating in many other aspects of the festival besides the events they're actually booked for.

You don't seem to have had a problem with the actual performance, so if the performer hadn't mentioned it you'd have been none the wiser. It's also unclear what the tone of the comment was - was it a genuine apology in advance, or a light-hearted comment intended to produce a nod of recognition from the audience, many of whom would also have been carousing until the small hours?

Had this taken place at a one-off concert, or if the performance itself were below par, then I'd have been inclined to agree with you. However a festival is a different animal, where both performers and audience are participating in the festival on a more equal footing. In that context I don't agree that the making of the comment in itself is unprofessional.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens
From: PercyBysshe
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 06:36 AM

I had a grand time at Sidmouth. I was stewarding in the Bedford every day so got to see some great stuff there - familiar and unfamiliar (one of the joys of stewarding). I loved the fact the Spooky Men were everywhere, so that even though I couldn't make the Monday night gig in the Ham (I was on duty) I didn't feel I'd missed out. The silent ceilidh/disco was my first, and it was a hoot, although after one dance in the ceilidh, I've realised I'm very unfit and need to do it more often. I enjoyed so many other acts I'm not even going to bother to list them. It's interesting that because it's such a huge festival, when you read other people's reports they could have been at a completely different one! I'd just like to say a huge thank you to everyone involved in making it such a good week. I'm now exhausted and recovering from drinking more cider in a week than I normally drink in a year (which isn't very much by the way!)

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens
From: GUEST,moira(flyingcat
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 06:26 AM

Well, i seem to have raised a few hackles by my comments but i will stand by what i said.
The reason being that if someone is expecting to earn living as a professional musician they they need to respect the audience who has paid to listen to them. Richard, If people like me didn't pay to see these performers they wouldn't be able to earn a living at all. Why do they do it if not to entertain and why should i be happy to accept less than their best because they'd been up carousing the previous night. Would you accept it from any other type of performer eg an actor or are folkies supposed not to bother?
It also doesn't matter if the person performance was up to scratch or not, it was the attitude that was unprofession not necessarily the actual performance. I have absolutely no problem with performers letting of steam etc off stage but informing your audience that it may cause a problem I think is unacceptable. I didn't approve of comments like that in the past and still don't.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 06:25 AM

No hangover? John, are you well?

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens
From: The Barden of England
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 06:23 AM

I had probably the best Sidmouth bar none. No hangovers, some stonking sessions both in The Bedford (singing and playing) and The Swan (also singing and playing), went to my usual couple of concerts that I fancied, renewed old friendships and finally used the festival campsite for the first time. I will certainly be doing that next year too.
My personal thanks go to Colin & Bev Pyne, who work till they drop during the folk week, and I know how hard they work the rest of the year for the festival.
The organisers really have taken up the mantle in my mind and are moving this wonderful festival in the right direction so a big thanks to you and the volunteer stewards too.
John Barden

Subject: RE: Sidmouth Festival as it happens
From: JHW
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 05:59 AM

The Campsite buses to Thorn, Oakdown, Kingsdown Tail Etc.
Are run by ALPHA
Though upping the price slightly for fuel costs their takings were down.
If they didn't run I wouldn't consider going back to the festival site.