BS: Punishment for riots

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 03:46 AM

Yeh Brimson is Derek's proper name. Its Derek's kid.

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 02:59 AM

Only if you enjoy being robbed.

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 02:26 AM

That's fair enough then.

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 10:24 PM

Vernon Bogdanor, professor of government at Oxford university quotes former Tory MP Jerry Hayes:

"He (Hayes) remembers that when he entered the Commons in 1983 MPs' salaries were inadequate at £14,510 a year. Margaret Thatcher, he recalls, ordered an independent review that recommended rises that would make even Jacqui Smith blush. But that would have enraged voters. So Mrs Thatcher rejected it. MPs were furious. To appease them, they were encouraged to supplement their salaries through the expenses system. Recompense would replace remuneration. "

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: Smokey.
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 09:06 PM

That's Dougie Brimson - not Brimstone, but you're dead right about Derek. Greatly undervalued.

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 08:07 PM

Interestingly enough ITV4 have bottled out of showing Green Street tonight - the film Derek Brimstone's lad made about football hooliganism.

Brimstone should have been THE major talent that England produced from the folk revival. If you've spent forty years snuffling about the folkscene pretending that its all got to do with the woes and waverings of the long dead I suppose the london riots will be off your radar. An alien form - not worth understanding.

Somehow I feel sure Derek would have had a joke and a song (probably a traditional one) humanising and explaining what we were seeing. A true folksinger.

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: GUEST,999
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 08:06 PM

"The current annual salary for an MP is £65,738. In addition, MPs receive allowances to cover the costs of running an office and employing staff, having somewhere to live in London and in their constituency, and travelling between Parliament and their constituency.

Who sets the levels of MPs' pay and expenses?

On 24 May 2011, the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority (IPSA) was made responsible for determining MPs' pay and setting the level of any increase in their salary. Since the 2010 General Election IPSA has also been responsible for the regulation and payment of expenses to Members of the House of Commons.

Members' expenses for both Houses

Allowances by MP

In June 2009 more than a million documents and receipts were made available to the public online. These related to MPs' claims dating back to 2004/05 and up to 2007/08. These pages have been updated to include information about claims made for costs incurred when staying away from the MPs' main home in 2008/09 and the first quarter of 2009/10.

Expenses by MP

The IPSA website also includes a searchable database of MPs' expenses on their website. Records of expenses date from 2010/11 onwards.

The Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority"

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 06:00 PM

""Rules created by guess who to provide "bunce" for MPs because even she knew the electorate would not stand for a massive pay increase for MPs. Really Bozo, you surely know that.""

You really need surgery for that chip on your shoulder Richard. You of all people should know that the prime minister of the day doesn't personally decide MPs' wages.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 05:50 PM

Ah, Penny, Osborne has been on that a while and it looks as if it might rip the coalition up the middle. At least I hope it will. The public schoolboys of course like something ripping them up the middle.

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: Penny S.
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 05:44 PM

This is the moment Osborne, he of the Bullingdon Club, has suggested reviewing the top level of tax.

Osborne's plan.


Bullingdon excesses.

Do you suppose being overtly nice to the rich is a direct punishment to us oiks for having a sense of entitlement to emulating our betters?

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 05:34 PM

PS - having recommended a massive salary increase for MPs and stayed with "flexible" expenses rules, she then tried to cover her tracks by warning that some MPs could get caught. Cunning, conniving wossname.

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: GUEST,livelylass
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 05:31 PM

"I rather think that description better suits the ones who are screaming for blood here - don't you think?
Jim Carroll"

What Jim, never heard of 'happy slapping'?

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 05:19 PM

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/columnists/maguire/2009/05/13/expenses-row-house-of-cards-has-collapsed-now-for-a-new-deal-115875-21354914/

More.

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 05:16 PM

Bozo - a small start

http://www.people.co.uk/news/tm_headline=blame-thatcher-for-this&method=full&objectid=21346871&siteid=93463-name_page.html

Now you do some homework.

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: GUEST,Josepp
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 04:46 PM

Rioting is its own punishment...

Rioting-the unbeatable high
Adrenalin shoots your nerves to the sky
Everyone knows this town is gonna blow
And it's all gonna blow right now:.

Now you can smash all the windows that you want
All you really need are some friends and a rock
Throwing a brick never felt so damn good
Smash more glass
Scream with a laugh
And wallow with the crowds
Watch them kicking peoples' ass

But you get to the place
Where the real slavedrivers live
It's walled off by the riot squad
Aiming guns right at your head
So you turn right around
And play right into their hands
And set your own neighbourhood
Burning to the ground instead

[Chorus]
Riot-the unbeatable high
Riot-shoots your nerves to the sky
Riot-playing into their hands
Tomorrow you're homeless
Tonight it's a blast

Get your kicks in quick
They're callin' the national guard
Now could be your only chance
To torch a police car

Climb the roof, kick the siren in
And jump and yelp for joy
Quickly-dive back in the crowd
Slip away, now don't get caught

Let's loot the spiffy hi-fi store
Grab as much as you can hold
Pray your full arms don't fall off
Here comes the owner with a gun

[Chorus]

The barricades spring up from nowhere
Cops in helmets line the lines
Shotguns prod into your bellies
The trigger fingers want an excuse
Now

The raging mob has lost its nerve
There's more of us but who goes first
No one dares to cross the line
The cops know that they've won

It's all over but not quite
The pigs have just begun to fight
They club your heads, kick your teeth
Police can riot all that they please

[Chorus]

Tomorrow you're homeless
Tonight it's a blast

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 04:28 PM

"Mmm, I think these folk who went out on the town and had a riotous ball of misrule, would probably be the exact same folk in another once upon a time who thronged the streets to witness a public hanging as 'entertainment'."
I rather think that description better suits the ones who are screaming for blood here - don't you think?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: GUEST,Josepp
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 04:18 PM

Here's a better version of the above song.

Riot

Yes, I read about the millionaire's daughter. That's funny. Daddy gives her everything she wants but I guess it wasn't enough.

Another was some kind of athlete who had his or her photo taken with the mayor of London and all this stuff but now BUSTED!!!

Well, I guess if you're going to destroy your credibility, you may as well get a free flat screen and droid phone out of the deal.

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 04:15 PM

LOL livelylass, they could also be condemned to attend old people's bingo and reruns of 'Antiques Roadshow'. In fact, we could devise an entire punishment programme for them. What about sequence ballroom dancing, wearing eighties fashions? Listening to Thatcher speeches ("Where there is despair...") 'Singing Together' sessions? Retro Looting lessons?

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: michaelr
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 04:11 PM

Sorry, that sould be "income INequality".

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: GUEST,Josepp
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 04:11 PM

Tonight it's a blast

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: michaelr
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 04:09 PM

From an AP article in my local newspaper (a NY Times affiliate), dated August 11:

Britain has one of the highest violent crime rates of the EU. Roughly 18 percent of youths between 16 and 24 are jobless and nearly half of all black youths are out of work.

As the government battles colossal government debt with harsh welfare cuts that promise to make the futures of these youths even bleaker, some experts say it's narrow-minded to believe the riots have only been a random outburst of violence unrelated to the current economic crisis.

"There's a fundamental disconnect with a particular section of young Britain and sections of the political establishment," said Matthew Goodwin, a politics professor at University of Nottingham.

"The argument that this doesn't have anything to do with expenditure cuts or economics doesn't stand up to the evidence... There's income equality, extemely high levels of unemployment between 16- and 24-year-olds, and huge parts of this population not in education or training," Goodwin said. "There's a general malaise amongst a particular generation."

Britain's Conservative-led government is implementing painful austerity measures... to trim Britain's huge deficit, swollen after the government spent billions bailing out foundering banks.

The plans to cut services from welfare to education sparked violent protests last year, as students took to the streets to demonstrate against the tripling of university fees... The austerity measures also will slash housing benefit payments used to subsidize rents for the low-paid, threatening to price tens of thousands of poor families our of their homes...

Economists at the Centre for Economic Policy Research say such cuts promise more unrest. Most of Britain's deepest cuts haven't even come yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: GUEST,livelylass
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 04:08 PM

Mmm, I think these folk who went out on the town and had a riotous ball of misrule, would probably be the exact same folk in another once upon a time who thronged the streets to witness a public hanging as 'entertainment'. Bread & circuses they say.. We all need to get our kicks someplace I guess, though the better educated you are arguably the more 'refined' (or discreet) your kicks become.

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 03:50 PM

"Rules created by guess who to provide "bunce" for MPs because even she knew the electorate would not stand for a massive pay increase for MPs. Really Bozo, you surely know that."

Prove it - in any case labour had 13 years to repeal and they did not!

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 03:40 PM

"Jim, do you automatically assume that I am? "
Sorry Shimrod, I was not having a pop; just underlining what you had to say with what I thought was irony.
I have no sympathy at all for the rioters; I believe them to be part of the rotten world that has been created by our system, just the reverse side of the same coin - looting shops or looting the public purse, one no better than the other.
They do have a certain grim enetertainment value though in the way they have managd to draw middle England out of their cotton-wool wrapping in such numbers in their in their "hang-em-and-flog-em" uniforms.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 03:20 PM

If you can think of a way in which these feral, rich scum can be adequately punished (in the real world) I hope that you'll let us know.

Stick them in the same cells, but with much longer sentences to serve, proportionate to the damage they caused to us all.

Nothing unreal about that, apart from the fact that the laws are made by their friends.

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 03:16 PM

'I suspect that this all happened just because it was found that social networking media could negate normal police protection.
No need for social and/or political explanations.
They did it because they could.'

Very puzzling though, some of them seem to have come from very nice homes. I mean we all use the internet, but none of us were out pillaging.

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 02:06 PM

Rules created by guess who to provide "bunce" for MPs because even she knew the electorate would not stand for a massive pay increase for MPs. Really Bozo, you surely know that.

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 01:39 PM

I agree that a number of MPs flouted the expenses rules - but the majority claimed in accordance with rules condoned by your beloved labour party in all their 13 years of hideous government.

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: GUEST,livelylass
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 01:38 PM

Haha! Quite so, our poor old looters will be locked into the circle where there's no massive flat screen TV, in fact they won't even be able to watch their neighbors on Jeremy Kyle at all anymore, 'cos there's NO TV, only R4 wittering endlessly on via a natty 'retro' stylee radio, with educational programming, appalling 'dramas' with bad accents and maybe the Archers if their lucky, 24/7. If they've been REALLY bad then it's non-stop Opera on R3, but that's only for really hardened "ironic punishment" cases.

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 01:21 PM

Yes I suspect there is a subsection of hell, furnished by the Innovations catalogue.

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 01:13 PM

""the rioters showed no understanding and compassion for the people adversely affected by their crimes."

Unlike the politicians and bankers who are the soul of compassion."

By condemning the rioters I am certainly not, in any way, supporting politicians and bankers - and why, Jim, do you automatically assume that I am? The latter have certainly set a very bad example and are, almost certainly, largely responsible for creating the 'greed-is-good' zeitgeist. They, too, have got off lightly (but the rich and powerful always do). If you can think of a way in which these feral, rich scum can be adequately punished (in the real world) I hope that you'll let us know.

Nevertheless, in spite of the relative unfairness and disparity, threatening your neighbour's lives and livelihoods with fire and violence cannot be condoned or encouraged under any circumstances.

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: GUEST,livelylass
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 12:59 PM

Oh! And don't get me started on the bliddy RT readers offers supplement! Aaargh...

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: GUEST,livelylass
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 12:54 PM

Excuse interjection, not allowed to post a GUEST thread in BS, but I noted quite a lot of sneering focus on the type of shops looted in the riots - places like JJB Sports, Footlocker, Mobile Phone stores and so-on, to add a piquancy to this, some commentators pointedly noted that shops like Waterstones remained unmolested.

As something of a counterpoint however, it just made me smile on perusing the Reader's Offers in the Guardian today at just how terrifyingly beige all their tat is. While I do peruse the Guardian online, if (for the sake of argument) I were on a looting spree frankly I wouldn't be seen dead looting the kinds of gear which seemingly represent prime 'objects of desire' for it's general readership..

Who knows, maybe I'm a Chav at heart, but I'd probably rather have a decent pair of trainers than an All-weather Patio Awning.. Eh oh ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: Jeri
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 12:54 PM

The Pure & Simple Criminals first CD "Light Fingered Scum", featuring the smash (and grab) hit single "Shoot, Don't Talk", © 2011 No Law Music (may not be reproduced under penalty of Reginald "Knuckles" Dwight, Pansy "Snarkles" Pinkpantz and Timmie "Torch" Wayheyah)

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 12:49 PM

Is there anyone who is NOT angry about the financial meltdown?

And if there is, when is the white padded van coming to pick them up?

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 12:45 PM

There is the legendary New Addington of course, although many of the council houses are now privately owned - a good deal was had by the tenants, who I believe make their mortgage payments in cash - I wonder why?????

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 12:30 PM

Funny, the post eater is at it again.

There are plenty of not nice estates around Croydon. I suppose some people just don't ever go there.

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 12:18 PM

Great name for a band

The Pure and Simple Criminals

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 11:38 AM

Backstreet?

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 09:13 AM

You obviously haven't been in the backstreet, Bozo

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: GUEST,999
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 08:47 AM

"If you're gonna shoot, shoot. Don't talk!"

Same movie.

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 08:36 AM

"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig"

The Good The Bad & the Ugly - oh so true!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 08:31 AM

"Funny it mostly took place in deprived districts then."

I would not call Croydon a deprived district!

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 08:21 AM

There's no border-control keeping the well-off out of poor areas.

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 08:21 AM

And now we are hearing that an already stretched government will have to find over 250 million pounds to pay for policing, building/stock compensation and personal injury claims. I imagine it will come from the overseas aid budget as it is the only thing that isn't currently facing cuts.

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 08:20 AM

PS - I find the Blues extremely boring, and frankly pretty ball-aching.

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 08:19 AM

Funny it mostly took place in deprived districts then.

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: Teribus
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 08:05 AM

The distinct impression coming over in the reports is that the festival of rioting and looting we have just been witness to had absolutley nothing to do with race, colour, creed, social conditions, unemployment, despair, poverty or government policy (implemented or not). It was criminal pure and simple.

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 06:48 AM

"light fingered scum"
Pity they're not black or Asian, then you could throw in towel head, nigger or wog and give you a full house.
Keep it coming Bluesman - makes the rioting and looting just that much more understandable.
"the rioters showed no understanding and compassion for the people adversely affected by their crimes."
Unlike the politicians and bankers who are the soul of compassion.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Punishment for riots
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 06:33 AM

Do the world a favour GUEST Bluesman.

Go and raffle youself.

Don T.