BS: Help me fix a plumbing problem

Subject: BS: Help me fix a plumbing problem
From: Janie
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 09:38 PM

If I can, I wanna fix this problem myself.

Both sides of my kitchen sink have drain leak problems. When I moved into this house 3 years ago, I had the old enamel double sink replaced with a new stainless steel sink, and am surprised to be having leak problems already.

I'm astonishingly ignorant and inept when it comes to things like this, but it still seems like a problem I ought to be able to fix without paying a plumber several hundred dollars, not to mention the time I would have to take off work to be home when they come to do the work.

As best I can figure out, there are several places the leaks originate from. Forgive my lack of correct terminology, and hope it doesn't make it impossible for the handimen/women among us to be helpful.

1. Looking down into the sinks, there are the funnel-like drains that drop down into the holes at the bottom of the sinks. I assume there is a sealant between the basin and the lip of the drain funnel. Those seals are apparently broken. If I push down, water seeps up onto the top of the lip, and both drain funnels easily jiggle from the topside of the sink.

2. Looking under the sink, those "funnels" have exterior threads and there are large metal "nuts" topped with rubber gaskets. It looks like those nuts should screw onto those threads, and the end result should be a snug fit of the gasket and the nut to the underside of the sink.

3. I thought to tighten the nut on one side, the side with the most prolific leak. It appears the diameter of the "nut" is fractionally greater than the diameter of the uppermost threads. Neither the threads nor the nut appear to be stripped. It seems the nut is simply too big. There is some evidence of some sort of sealant or putty (not silicone) that had been applied to the rubber gasket, and which I assume held both the gasket and the "nut" in place for some time, but which has now failed.

4. I'm figuring, perhaps incorrectly, that the longevity of the seals between the topside of the sinks and the underside of the lips of the drains, depend on the the drains being held more-or-less motionless by a tight seal/clamp from the underside that depends not only on a sealant, but on the threads of the drain and the nut meshing sufficiently to provide stability.

5. It is possible there is also some leakage around the the places where the pvc "nuts" connect the pvc drainpipes to the metal drain funnels, but I can't evaluate that until the the problems "upstream" are fixed.

And what is it with plumbers these days? Maybe nothing. Maybe it is just me not understanding. There was a leak problem with the kitchen sink that was there before I moved in, and before I replaced the kitchen sink. The first plumber I called went in while I was gone, left stalactites of silicone dripping under the cabinet without fixing a thing and also stole some relatively minor power tools in the process. The plumbing company that installed the new sink also dealt with some other minor plumbing problems that are still OK, told me, correctly, that I didn't need to change a drain that would have been rather expensive to replace for a front-loading washer. Maybe I don't have realistic expectations in terms of modern day plumbing. I just didn't expect to have major drainage leak problems from the sink assembly itself within 3 years of having a new sink installed.

Boy, am I long-winded. MIght be "too much" information for some, but I am so ignorant about these matters there is no such thing as "too Much" information for me to try to figure it out.

Do I need a plumber, or can some among ya'll help me figure this out on my own?

xo,

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: Help me fix a plumbing problem
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 09:46 PM

It's a bit difficult to diagnose the leak from your description but one option would be to just replace the basket strainer - it's a pretty easy task. This video may be of help http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sY5IFLmjtJ0

Subject: RE: BS: Help me fix a plumbing problem
From: Janie
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 09:48 PM

PS, I have tried searching the DIY sites, but apparently don't know the right plumbing terminology to get to the answers I need.

Subject: RE: BS: Help me fix a plumbing problem
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 10:10 PM

The ring that you look at in the sink should have "plumber's putty" under it and then the tailpiece (the tube under the sink that connects to the ring) screws into the ring with a rubber washer and a large nut holding the ring tight and connected to the tail piece...

1. Take the white PVC trap out (need channel locks maybe)...

2. Take channel locks and loosen the big nut that locks the tailpiece to the ring....

3. Then unscrew the tailpiece from the ring

4. Take ring out and put a worm sized amount of "plumber's putty" around the bottom of the ring where it contacts the sink...

5. Screw tailpiece back into the ring from underneath the sink...

6. Tighten big nut (with washer) at the top of the tailpiece...

7. Reassemble the PVC trap...

Finished...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Help me fix a plumbing problem
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 10:48 PM

If the threads on the nut don't engage the threads on the strainer body(what you're calling the "funnels) so that it can be tightened, you had a real botch artist who used mis-matched parts doing the installation & you'll never get a decent seal between the flange on the strainer body & the sink.

You may be looking at getting & installing new strainer body assemblies, as per guest's YouTube video, above.

Then call the Better Business Bureau & report the botch artists.

Subject: RE: BS: Help me fix a plumbing problem
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 10:50 PM

See if this helps.

http://www.ehow.com/video_4426076_installing-kitchen-sink-plumbing.html

Subject: RE: BS: Help me fix a plumbing problem
From: Janie
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 10:53 PM

Thanks, Guest. "Basket Strainer" appears to be the correct term for what I'm having problems with. My undersink assembly is different from that presented in the video. There is not another solid "basket" under the sink that slips over the the straight pipe that is threaded. The entire exterior of the drop-in basket is threaded. There is no exterior under-sink solid basket with lip to seal or clamp. There is only the gasket and an metal nut to tighten/seal the drop-in basket from underneath.

When I went shopping for sinks, I was armed with the knowledge that after a certain point, the gauge of the stainless steel per dollar was silly and I understood the cost differences between sinks to be about gauge. I did not ask about types of drains - I perhaps naively assumed all drain assemblies are equal. I don't recall any indication that the differences in price related to difference in drain-basket assemblies. I also don't know if the parts for drain assembly for the sinks was part of the cost of the sinks or was part of the cost for the plumbers. I think I assumed the drain basket assembles were part of the sink purchase.

Subject: RE: BS: Help me fix a plumbing problem
From: Janie
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 10:56 PM

Out of sync timewise with the posts so far. Sounds like I not only need to learn some basic plumbing skills and terminology, I also need to find an honest plumber.

Ignorance is no excuse, and it also is not fun and is very expensive.

Subject: RE: BS: Help me fix a plumbing problem
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 12:07 AM

Do you know who manufactured the sink? Look them up online and talk to their customer service people.

I bet when the sink was installed, it came with paperwork that told exactly how to put it together. That paperwork may have been thrown away. See if you can get a copy of it and follow the directions.

The customer service people ought to know whether a beginner can do it or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Help me fix a plumbing problem
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 12:33 AM

I don't know US plumbing but the thread business does sound like a bodge job to me too...

Subject: RE: BS: Help me fix a plumbing problem
From: ranger1
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 01:07 AM

Janie, there are a bunch of books that will teach DIY plumbing basics. There's a Dummies guide to plumbing, a Complete Idiot's Guide to Plumbing, and a few with slightly more flattering titles. There was a great book I saw in a bookstore a few years back that was basic household repairs geared toward women, but I can remember neither the title nor the author. I didn't buy it at the time because I was still seasonal and it didn't fit into the budget.

Subject: RE: BS: Help me fix a plumbing problem
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 01:20 AM

While most hardware stores should have people who can "show you the parts" and explain how they go together, it's pot-luck whether you get the one who knows or the one who's just guessing.

Of the places in my area, Home Depot gets the prize for having qualified people nearly always at hand for giving advice, and they give "classes" in how to do all kinds of things (things that might increase sales, of course).

Kitchen sink drains (in the US) are generally a different size than bathroom and utility sinks, so there is some need to know what you've got. Kitchen sink drains also may vary with whether or not they're intended for installation of a garbage grinder (disposer). Current usage is to have the "big hole" in both sides on some, but there are some of them that have the big hole in one side and a smaller one on the other.

On either size of drain hole, the basket threads are a very fine pitch relative to the size of the fittings, and if someone has "put a bigger wrench on" to try to solve a leak problem the threads may be stripped, giving the impression of a wrong sized nut.

As mentioned above, the "ring" that drops in from the top of the sink should have either a good rubber gasket or some "plumbers putty" to seal the joint, inside the sink. Many plumbers use both routinely. A gasket alone usually makes a satisfactory seal if everything else is in "virgin condition" but the putty takes care of any imperfections in the surfaces being sealed. If using putty, there should be enough applied to squeeze a generous ring out when things are tightened. (The excess should wipe off easily.)

Under the sink, there should be a larger gasket between the sink and the lower nut fitting. Most plumbers will also add some putty there as well. Because of the fine-pitch (shallow teeth) threads, the lower nut needs to be screwed up firmly, but there's a limit to how tight it can be screwed without damaging the threads.

The fitting under the sink should have a short straight piece with a male thread at the bottom. It's usual to connect a "drop tube" there, with a "U-trap" next below, usually with an "elbow tube" on the other side of the trap. The elbow tube usually goes "into the wall."

All of these latter parts will connect with "compression joints" that require a fresh gasket, and a "ring-nut" to clamp down onto the gasket and "squeeze it" against the tubes to make a water tight seal at each joint. The nut doesn not hold things together. It only squeezes the gasket

A Google search for pictures of lots of parts

Fairly decent typical strainer parts picture

Fairly typical under-sink configuration

Detail of typical under sink (Note IE partially blocks this page for "unsigned certificate," but Norton says the site is okay.)

Traditionally, chrome plated brass tubing and nuts have been most used for drains, but the tubing is rather thin-walled, and since parts of it are constantly wet "metal-rot" is common. Repairs/replacements at about 10 year intervals are common, depending on water quality and what kinds of things you put down the drain.

Plastic (PVC) parts are more commonly used now. Either works well and people argue about which is best. Converting from one to the other may require a few additional parts, so most people "go with what they've got" for repairs.

Especially with plastic drain tubes, you must rely on a good fit and reasonable "screwing down" on the nuts. Fresh gaskets need to be used each time you put a string of tubes together. Plastic nuts should seal when tightened "hand tight" but that's the "hand of a healthy plumber" so a little assistance with slip-joint pliers or other "wrenching tool" is usually permissible. If you overtighten the nuts, the usual result is that the nut splits invisibly and your leak is back because the gasket isn't compressed.

Disclaimer: The illustrations are for what's most common in the US. Elsewhere it's hard (for me) to say what you might find.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Help me fix a plumbing problem
From: Gurney
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 01:28 AM

What Bobert said.
There should also be a translucent or white nylon gasket, a big washer, between the sink and the nut. If that is missing, it may be that your nut won't tighten up enough. Plumbers putty is like plasticine. Put enough on that it 'squirts' out as you tighten the nut.
The plastic U-bend trap segments rely on gaskets and cleanliness to be watertight. It is full of dirty water, so keep them straight and take it off in one piece, and spread a towel when you take it off. There will be some spillage.

And when you take it off, DON"T hand it to someone to pour away without specifying where! I did, just once.
Straight into the sink I was working on, it went!

A big channellock pliers should be available at a cheapo toolshop. There isn't really a substitute cheaper, but they last forever.

Subject: RE: BS: Help me fix a plumbing problem
From: Gurney
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 01:29 AM

Crossposted with John.

Subject: RE: BS: Help me fix a plumbing problem
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 03:13 AM

The washers and gaskets you'll find can be any of several compositions and shapes. Especially for the "compression joints" it's a good idea to use a new gasket/washer any time you put the joint back together. The usual shape is a square or nearly square cross section. A new gasket should be "soft" enough to compress against the surfaces it's meant to seal on, with fairly moderate screwing up of the nuts. "Firm Hand tight" really should be sufficient, but in some places where it's hard to get a grip an "assist" with the slip-joint pliers can be helpful.

"Soft" is a relative term, and they'll usually be hard enough that you can't dent them easily with a fingernail. Especially the compression gaskets won't stay soft when they've been compressed in place for long, and an old one likely won't compress enough to seal before you split the nut if you're using plastic nuts or strip the threads if you're using metal nuts. New gaskets shouldn't be expensive. Hardware/lumber supply places often package replacement nuts each with an appropriate washer, and sometimes it's cheaper to buy both than to try to find the separate parts.

Opinion is divided on whether using putty around the compression gaskets is helpful. The seal is intended to be by compression on a small area, and the compression needed will squeeze any putty you add out of that area. There's nothing to support the putty elsewhere in the joint, so it will likely just "wash out" anywhere else if there is a leak. It only stays in place if it's not needed. (Opinion)

On the flatter gaskets, where a fairly large sealing area is present, it usually is a good idea to slobber on some putty.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Help me fix a plumbing problem
From: Allan C.
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 06:12 AM

Good luck, Janie! I think the advice given above, especially the video links and John's assessment are spot on. I agree completely with the idea that either the threads are stripped or the washer is missing. I have faith that if you replace the aforementioned assembly where it attaches to the sink, all will be well.

You may do well to find a book called, "How Things Work in Your Home and What to Do When They Don't". Also, you might want to check


http://www.angieslist.com/

for referrals to qualified plumbers in your area.

Wish I could just drive down and give you a hand. I installed one of these just last week!

Subject: RE: BS: Help me fix a plumbing problem
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 07:25 AM

If you are going to a store to get new parts it might help to take some photos of the old ones in situ to help explain what you want to replace. It might get the retailer on your side!

Subject: RE: BS: Help me fix a plumbing problem
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 08:51 AM

There's an alternative to having to buy a pair of big channel-locks to remove those big basket strainer nuts. The nuts are usually molded with 6 or 8 wing-like protrusions sticking out. Just place the blade of a reasonably hefty straight slot screwdriver against one of those wings and give the handle a couple of raps with a hammer or rubber mallet. That'll break the seal and you can loosen it the rest of the way by hand.

Subject: RE: BS: Help me fix a plumbing problem
From: ranger1
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 09:08 AM

Yeah, but a decent set of channel-locks can be so useful in a lot of situations.

Subject: RE: BS: Help me fix a plumbing problem
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 09:32 AM

Don't ***make*** me come up there and fix it 10 minutes, Janie!!!

LOL...

All you need is a big pair of "channel locks"... Look for a big nut under the sink that is going to have a rubber washer between it and the sink... It's right over the "tailpiece" (pipe that goes down to the trap)... The trap is the "S" shaped thing but sideways...

Try tightening that nut and see if that fixes the problem...

If not then go back to what I posted earlier...

BTW, the "plumbers putty" goes between the the basket and the sink on the top part of the sink... Remember making worms with clay when you were a kid??? That's what you do with the plumbers putty... You make a worm and wrap it around the entire bottom side of the basket before putting the basket back thru the hole in the sink... Then you screw the tail piece (pipe with threads on top) into the basket from underneath.... You may have to put something heavy on the basket to keep it in place as you get tailpiece threaded... The tailpiece will only screw into the basket but so far... That's fine... The you put the washer on the tailpiece so that it will make contact with the underside of the sink and then you put the big nut on and tighten it so that the washer starts to flatten out... That means you are sealed on both sides... The reinstall the trap.... Some traps are chrome and others are white plastic... Doesn't much matter... Be sure to tighten all the big nuts on the trap or it will leak...

You're done!!!

Now get them dirty dishes washed...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Help me fix a plumbing problem
From: open mike
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 11:39 AM

if the basket strainer leaks, use a dish pan inside the sink to hold the water. hope you will get this fixed soon...with such a crew of plumbing helpers as the mudcat offers, there should be the answer here!

Subject: RE: BS: Help me fix a plumbing problem
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 03:50 PM

Or if the basket strainer leaks slowly put a pan under the sink to catch the drips. Just don't forget to empty it before it gets too full get it out from under the sink.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Help me fix a plumbing problem
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 04:56 PM

Well, catching the leaks is always a good idea but not a good long term solution...

BTW, my son's egg-donor (ex) thought that duct tape was the answer to her plumbing problems... Not!!!... She let it go so far that it rotted her bathroom floor out in her house, which BTW I purchased from her when she and my son went merrily off to Oregon... If I had to guess what I would have charged to fix that mess I'd guess right at $2500 and all for a lousy $3 "S" trap... Pathetic...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Help me fix a plumbing problem
From: Janie
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 07:58 PM

Whew!

I really appreciate all the help. After reading everything - Angie's List sounds like the best idea! I'd tackle it if I had Bobert or Allan right there to check, inspect and instruct every step of the way. I have an unfortunate track record with attempting all but the very simpliest home repair projects.

From what you have posted, and after poking around a little more I realize the basket drains were not installed "according to Hoyle" to begin with, and therein lies the problem.

1. Instead of using plumbers putty between the sink and the lip of the drain baskets, they used silicon gel. This means the drain baskets have always slipped and slid around a tiny bit when pressure is applied (such as scrubbing the sink, or pushing the stopper basket down to close the drain.)

2. The nuts under the sink turn very easily. (The first thing I tried was to tighten them.) They will not snug up tightly to the sink. One of them is so loose that while I can carefully screw it up so that it will stay, with a good jostle, it drops back down again.. John may be right, the threads may be stripped, at least on the nuts, which appear to be a galvanized metal. (and they do have those little nubs at intervals around the perimeter.) There is residue of some sort that may be plumbers putty, but is not silicone, and no huge amount of it, whatever it is.

The nuts were either fractionally too big or the threads got stripped during installation. I'm guessing the plumber or handyman - I can't remember now who installed the sink, just that it wasn't the thief who left the stalactites of silicone dripping from under the old sink - compensated for the nuts not snugging up by applying a sealant. It worked for awhile, but because the baskets were not clamped tightly the seal between the sink and the drain baskets eventually broke.

I'm not brave enough to do it on my own without on-location guidance.

Please don't think you have wasted your time. You've provided enough guidance for me to realize this is not a diy project for me.

The side of the sink that drains straight down into the trap developed this problem, on a minor scale, several months ago. A bucket works there fine. I had been putting off having it fixed because I also have problems in the bathroom that have weakened the floor and rendered the shower (but not the tub) unusable. (a legacy problem that appears to have been half-assed repaired many times over the years by the previous owners, including a half-assed repair so that it passed the pre-purchase inspection.) To fix that problem and fix it right is going to cost several thousand dollars. I've been saving up for that repair, and thought to have the sink dealt with at the same time, since plumbers would already be here. Last weekend, however, the other side of the sink developed the same problem, only worse. Since the drainpipe for that side of the sink runs horizontally to join the pipe lined up with the trap, the water runs all along the exterior of that pipe. There is no bucket with a wide enough diameter to collect it all.

I have terrible karma when it comes to finding good and reputable trades and repair people. I think I must have "sucker" written across my forehead.

Subject: RE: BS: Help me fix a plumbing problem
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 08:40 PM

Janie,

Do you have a "WorkForce" where people try to get day work??? If so, you might find someone with some skills who will work cheap... Lots of construction related people are out of work... You need someone who can fix the flooring and do the basic plumbing... Lots of people can do that...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Help me fix a plumbing problem
From: Gurney
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 12:35 AM

Janie, quite often, the best tradesmen don't advertise, because they have all the work they can handle. Ask your local friends.

Subject: RE: BS: Help me fix a plumbing problem
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 01:12 AM

Instead of using plumbers putty between the sink and the lip of the drain baskets, they used silicon gel.

All the plumbing in our camper is plastic, and all joints are glued, presumedly to resist vibration when the camper moves. The only way to get any parts out is with a saw.

When the drain fitting leaked, the gasket they'd used was too hard to compress with the plastic nut used. I made do with dripping candle wax around the rim and the "sweating it in" gently with a propane torch. I wouldn't recommend the method in a house, since proper repairs aren't really that difficult; but in the camper it's held just fine for a little over 4 years so far. And I've got another candle.

If the nuts holding your parts "bottom" and won't tighten, it's likely that corrosion at the top of where the "loose nuts" were has clogged the threads and you're just running up to the crud. With otherwise good threads a "bigger wrench" can sometimes be applied to force the nut threads through the rust, or you can take the screws out and wire brush vigorously; but neither is really satisfactory. If you "clean up" things, the rust protection will be gone, and future rapid corrosion is a certainty. You might then have to break the screws off to get them out to do it right.

For a temporary fix on the water that "follows the pipe" and misses your bucket, tie a piece of string (or a strip of rag) arond the wet part of the pipe close to the leak and let it hang into a smaller bucket. With a little luck the water will follow the string instead of running down the pipe. If possible use a "wettable" string. Some "plastic rope" is hygrophobic and the water won't follow it as well.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Help me fix a plumbing problem
From: Janie
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 09:13 PM

Well, I'm kind of proud of myself. No, I didn't fix the sink myself, but I did diagnose the problem correctly. The nuts were the wrong size - fractionally too large.

A neighbor fixed it who had been out of town for 3 weeks. He mostly is an over-the-road truck driver, but had a small business doing home renovations and repairs before the economy and construction went south. It looks to him like the plumbing company that installed the sink used the nuts from the old sink. They did use plumber's putty, but also then used silicone just under and around the lip on the inside of the basins to compensate. He bought the correct sized nuts and a container of plumbers putty for $12.80 at Lowes and fixed it. He didn't want me to pay him except the $12.80 but I want to feel free to call on him again. He would not quote a price for his labor, but finally said, "It took me less than an hour. If you must pay me, pay me what you think is fair and that you can afford." I paid him for the parts plus $50.00. Do you think that was fair? Should I have paid him more or less?

Subject: RE: BS: Help me fix a plumbing problem
From: Bert
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 09:19 PM

$50 sounds fair.

Subject: RE: BS: Help me fix a plumbing problem
From: Janie
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 09:20 PM

I doubt he factored in the time (and gas) to drive to Lowe's Home Improvement to buy the nuts and putty. That would have been a minimum of 30 minutes.

Subject: RE: BS: Help me fix a plumbing problem
From: Bobert
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 09:23 PM

What Bert said... $50 was fair...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Help me fix a plumbing problem
From: Janie
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 09:25 PM

Thanks Bert. I REALLY don't know about this kind of thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Help me fix a plumbing problem
From: Janie
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 09:27 PM

ditto Bobert.

Subject: RE: BS: Help me fix a plumbing problem
From: Joe Offer
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 09:45 PM

Hmmmmm.
I suppose this is a bit off-topic, but this reminds me of one time when I visited my ex-wife to pick up the kids, and she asked me to fix the kitchen sink which a boyfriend had installed. I asked if it would make the boyfriend feel bad if I repaired his mistakes. She replied, "Don't worry - he's on the way out."
So I fixed the sink.

-Joe Offer, Maintenance Man-
(I wear a tie-dye T-shirt with an "MM" duogram, and sometimes a cape)

Subject: RE: BS: Help me fix a plumbing problem
From: Janie
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 10:59 PM

If and when I have the time, and therefore the wit, I feel another "help us (me)" thread coming on about identifying and finding trustworthy trades and repair people for those of us who don't have the knowledge, time and experience to do, supervise or evaluate the competency of those we hire to do trades work on and around the house.

Subject: RE: BS: Help me fix a plumbing problem
From: katlaughing
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 11:26 PM

Janie, I don't know how much the contractors work for, but you can read real reviews of them, from real customers, etc. on Angie's List which is a proud sponsor of public radio. (I hear them say that, every once in awhile:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Help me fix a plumbing problem
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 12:25 AM

The phone system AND the air conditioning went out at the women's center on Monday. The air conditioning was easy - I checked it and figured out I couldn't fix it, and called the company we'd used before.

The phone system was another thing. It took quite a bit to convince the boss that it would do no good to call AT&T because we own the equipment and it was installed by a third party, which recently went out of business. I had to call ten companies before I found one that even had an understanding of our system, which hasn't been manufactured for ten years. I found a company that seems quite good - it has a lot of used equipment that matches our system.

I'm not able to tackle every problem in a commercial building, but I know enough to be able to locate people to do the work. It's more difficult than people might think, though. My Boss the Nun told my wife today how wonderful I am. Hey, it's great for the ego....

-Joe the Maintenance Man (with cape)-

Subject: RE: BS: Help me fix a plumbing problem
From: maeve
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 10:04 AM

Angie's List can be very helpful IF members in your area have posted reviews of the kind of companies you are needing. One must be a member to access those reviews.

Good for you, Janie!

Subject: RE: BS: Help me fix a plumbing problem
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 10:22 AM

Joe,

At least the ex didn't say, "Why would it, he's fixing your mistake..."

B;~)