BS: OWS RIP

Subject: BS: OWS RIP
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 01:45 PM

I think that the "occupy" phase of the movement is essentially over.

They are still trying to "occupy" here in Wilminton. But they have been pretty much shut down in major cities. The "library" and the jazz hands and "human microphone" were all cute and media savvy ideas, but that is not sustainable. The Republican propaganda machine is capable of dominating every news cycle. My question is what is next for OWS?

Subject: RE: BS: OWS RIP
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 03:26 PM

I don't really think it's over, Jack. As Mark Twain commented about the reports of his death, I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. I think it's alive and well for awhile yet. But I also think it will change form.

I read just this morning that a large group of the New York Occupy Wall Street protesters are marching down the highway to take their protest to Washington D.C. The cities, such as Oakland, that are trying to put the occupy movement down are not having much luck, and there are many, many municipalities in the United States (some 900, last I heard) that are NOT attempting to interfere with protests, beyond issues of public safety.

In Seattle, where I live, the mayor, Mike McGinn, has commented that he understands what the protesters are protesting about, and that he AGREES with them! He is not allowing them to pitch tents in Westlake Park because of long-standing city ordinances, but he has offered the protesters the alternative of using the big lawn area next to City Hall, and he has given orders that the building be left open so that they may use its sanitary facilities.

A few days ago, a couple of overzealous policemen pepper-sprayed several people, including two women, one young and pregnant, and the other 84 years old. Mayor McGinn has issued an apology, both official and unofficial, and the policemen have been ordered to appear before a police review board.

In the main, all over the country, the protests have been peaceful and fairly orderly. This has been duly noted. The protesters have been pretty well policing themselves regarding such things as vandalism, spray-painting, and such, and where this sort of thing has happened, it was almost invariably done by infiltrators and other goons. This ALSO has been duly noted.

But the main thing is that the Occupy Wall Street movement is only the tip of the iceberg. There are other manifestations that are not so obvious, and they've been seething underground for some time now. For example, several years back I learned of the existence of the Backbone Campaign, headquartered on Vashon Island near Seattle. Their major thrust has been supporting and encouraging politicians and political candidates who have shown personal integrity in the face of all of the financial temptations that lobbyists and such keep waving in front of them. In short, those who demonstrate that they have a backbone. And they are involved in a lot of other things as well.

It was not long after the appearance of the Tea Party and its aggressive, gun waving hijinks that the Coffee Party formed. And this is all over the country. It makes nowhere near as much noise as the Tea Party does and it doesn't show up to heckle and threaten candidates. There are Coffee Party groups all over the country meeting in living rooms, small meeting rooms, restaurants, etc. Reacting to the wall-eyed, screaming ignorance of the Tea Party, and taking a leaf from Thomas Jefferson's comment about the survival of democracy necessitating an informed electorate, one of their major aims is to educate themselves on the issues and the candidates. And bone up on what the Constitution really says—and does NOT say.

There are other groups and this and other manifestation of the feelings and thoughts that spawned the Occupy Wall Street movement, and I could go on for pages, but I think you get the idea.

Also, my wife and I have guests coming in about fifteen minutes, so I gotta get crackin'.

Back later.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: OWS RIP
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 03:39 PM

Maybe not!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: OWS RIP
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 04:01 PM

Take heart

Subject: RE: BS: OWS RIP
From: GUEST,999
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 06:55 PM

I don't know how many people who post here will recall the poor peoples' march on Washington. The issues have not changed, nor imo have the people. Dr King was missing at the march due to his assassination (murder), but in spirit there he was, and here he is. Nothing has changed, nor will it unless we all hold the line here and now.

1) Do not believe main stream media
2) See number one
3) See number two

We cannot be beaten unless we allow ourselves to lose heart.

Subject: RE: BS: OWS RIP
From: Ed T
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 07:11 PM

Did other broad movements end, or just took other forms, impacting social change?

Subject: RE: BS: OWS RIP
From: Lox
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 07:56 PM

Its all about social media - the eviction is just cosmetic

Subject: RE: BS: OWS RIP
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 08:04 PM

OWS is in the American culture forever... No, there won't be "occupations"... They are being $y$tematically closed but the $y$tem cannot destroy the seed that has been planted...

In 1964 Barry Goldwater planted an evil seed that thta sprouted with the election of Reagan... We have suffered from that seen ever since...


Barry Goldwater and Ronnie Reagan have had their time and it hasn't served the country very well...

OWS is the seed...

Our turn... Stupid time is over...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: OWS RIP
From: GUEST,999
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 09:09 PM

Lox aced it in one.

Subject: RE: BS: OWS RIP
From: Amos
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 09:40 PM

The spirit moves on, and continues to write on the peeling walls of American history.

A

Subject: RE: BS: OWS RIP
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 09:42 PM

Exactly, Amos, exactly...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: OWS RIP
From: GUEST,mark-s (on the road)
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 10:35 PM

Be patient.
Recent OWS was just a dress rehersal for what will happen next summer and fall.
Wait until the election draws closer.
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: OWS RIP
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 11:06 PM

I wish there was a "like" button on Mudcat!

Good point, Mark-s!

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: OWS RIP
From: GUEST, Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 12:01 AM

Bobert: "Our turn... Stupid time is over..."

Does this mean you see the corruption of our system is not limited to just one party?????

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: OWS RIP
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 01:51 AM

Nobody ever said it was.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: OWS RIP
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 01:54 AM

Tell Bobert!..You two just might not be in agreement there...

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: OWS RIP
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 02:36 AM

The more harm the detractors in power do the stronger the movement will grow

Subject: RE: BS: OWS RIP
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 02:38 AM

Nobody (important) has considered the OWS anything to be concerned about, as evidenced by the report:


Lobbying firm's memo spells out plan to undermine Occupy Wall Street

By Jonathan Larsen and Ken Olshansky, MSNBC TV
19 November 2011

A well-known Washington lobbying firm with links to the financial industry has proposed an $850,000 plan to take on Occupy Wall Street and politicians who might express sympathy for the protests, according to a memo obtained by the MSNBC program "Up w/ Chris Hayes."

The proposal was written on the letterhead of the lobbying firm Clark Lytle Geduldig & Cranford and addressed to one of CLGC's clients, the American Bankers Association.

CLGC's memo proposes that the ABA pay CLGC $850,000 to conduct "opposition research" on Occupy Wall Street in order to construct "negative narratives" about the protests and allied politicians.

The memo also asserts that Democratic victories in 2012 would be detrimental for Wall Street and targets specific races in which it says Wall Street would benefit by electing Republicans instead.

According to the memo, if Democrats embrace OWS, "This would mean more than just short-term political discomfort for Wall Street. … It has the potential to have very long-lasting political, policy and financial impacts on the companies in the center of the bullseye."

The memo also suggests that Democratic victories in 2012 should not be the ABA's biggest concern. "… (T)he bigger concern," the memo says, "should be that Republicans will no longer defend Wall Street companies."


[See - it's no big deal]

John

Subject: RE: BS: OWS RIP
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 09:08 AM

I am shocked! Shocked to see a lobbying firm reporting an opinion that would increase its revenue!

Subject: RE: BS: OWS RIP
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 09:50 AM

My RIP was premature.

Subject: RE: BS: OWS RIP
From: SINSULL
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 11:28 AM

OWS alive and well in Maine although there has been an increase in violence from some homeless folks.
We'll see.

Subject: RE: BS: OWS RIP
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 04:47 PM

Seattle's mayor, Mike McGinn released the following statement:

"These are extraordinary times. We have seen the Occupy Wall Street movement take off in cities across the country, and there's a reason for it. There is real anger about the unprecedented concentration of wealth and power in this country and the inequality it has produced. I share the values and the message of the Occupy Wall Street movement. We want to provide the opportunity for the people of Seattle to express their views."

The Occupy movement has spread to other cities and towns in Washington State, including the small town of Sequim (Indian name, pronounced "Squim"—ignore the "e"), and to the town of Forks, both out on the Olympic Peninsula. And Forks is an extremely conservative, working class little town! At least it has been—until lately.

No, the Occupy movement is far from dead. And what needs to be noted in all of this is that the vast majority of these people are voters. If they have enough motivation to get out there, demonstrate, and take a chance on getting a face full of pepper spray, they have sufficient motivation to work on political campaigns supporting issues and candidates that reflect their anger.

And those candidates had better damn well be on their toes, because they are being vetted very closely for things such as honesty, personal integrity, and follow-through on campaign promises!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: OWS RIP
From: EBarnacle
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 05:02 PM

Only the venue has changed. In an era of e-mail and flash mobs expect the movement to continue. Watch, however, for plants and provos using the name but trying to subvert and discredit the movement.

Subject: RE: BS: OWS RIP
From: GUEST,999
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 05:19 PM

I think the Occupy phase has to keep going. I also think that Don makes an excellent point about finding people to run for seats in the HoR and Senate who will force Boss Hawg to account for his/her actions. There is little transparency in Washington. If Obama is the sop needed to actually have a president, then maybe that's the price of democracy, although I'd rather see a man of integrity like Bernie Sanders run for and get elected to what was once an esteemed position in America. I feel the office of the presidency has hit rock bottom. I had great hopes for Obama, but his broken election promises speak volumes, none of them good.

I think the two-party system has run its course. It needs to go. The only way to do that is have sitting HoR and Senators run as independents, because the majority of US congressmen and women can no longer be trusted to vote as their constituents wanted when they were elected or do now that they are elected. IMO

Subject: RE: BS: OWS RIP
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 05:57 PM

That's a pile of Boss Hawgwash.

Obama kept or is trying to keep all his major promises. Health Care Iraq, Guantanamo, Taking the war to Bin Laden, Upgrading the US image in the world. The problem is that most people left and right barely listened to the substance. Another problem is that many people want everything done yesterday and they all want it done their way.

I think that proportionately, with Canada 1/10 the size of the US, Harper is a much bigger problem to the world wide occupy movement than Obama. What are Canadians doing about him?

Subject: RE: BS: OWS RIP
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 06:20 PM

Agreed, Jack. Obama is doing his damndest. But he's dealing with a Republican congress that is determined to oppose anything and everything he wants to do.

####

What are the OWS folks ticked off about?

How sausage is made.

(Keep your barf bag handy.)

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: OWS RIP
From: GUEST,999
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 06:27 PM

"What are Canadians doing about him?"

Working hard with the NDP to get him OUT!

Subject: RE: BS: OWS RIP
From: GUEST,999
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 06:55 PM

http://www.aclu.org/national-security/president-obama-issues-executive-order-institutionalizing-indefinite-detention

Subject: RE: BS: OWS RIP
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 07:03 PM

Yes, I will readily admit that Obama is not doing everything the ALCU wants.

I ask you, did he try to shut down Guantanamo? He is just the President, he has to work within the laws that exist on the problems that exist. He isn't an omnipotent quasi dictator who when he wants to violate the law, just finds a lawyer who tells him what he wants to hear. Not that a President that one of the major parties had fully supported would ever do that.

Subject: RE: BS: OWS RIP
From: Mrrzy
Date: 22 Nov 11 - 04:01 PM

Lessee - rumors of its death are greatly exaggerated? Or, (scream) it's ALIVE!!!

Subject: RE: BS: OWS RIP
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 22 Nov 11 - 04:03 PM

Yes!!! On this thread RIP means Really Into Protesting!

Subject: RE: BS: OWS RIP
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Nov 11 - 04:12 PM

Then Jack why don't you look at his March 7, 2011 Executive Order and explain it.

Subject: RE: BS: OWS RIP
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 22 Nov 11 - 07:04 PM

It's not over.

Look who got mic checked today.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/occupy-protestor-hands-president-obama-note-201229558.html

Subject: RE: BS: OWS RIP
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 22 Nov 11 - 07:18 PM

This March 7, 2011 Executive Order?

(b) This order is intended solely to establish, as a discretionary matter, a process to review on a periodic basis the executive branch's continued, discretionary exercise of existing detention authority in individual cases. It does not create any additional or separate source of detention authority, and it does not affect the scope of detention authority under existing law. Detainees at Guantánamo have the constitutional privilege of the writ of habeas corpus, and nothing in this order is intended to affect the jurisdiction of Federal courts to determine the legality of their detention.

Subject: RE: BS: OWS RIP
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Nov 11 - 07:28 PM

It doesn't matter what you call it... OWS... The Peoples Turn... XYZ... The conversation has changed...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: OWS RIP
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 08:29 AM

"it does not affect the scope of detention authority under existing law."

Bingo. That's what I'm saying. And there Guantanamo remains.

Subject: RE: BS: OWS RIP
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 03:37 PM

Do you recall the fight in Congress? This is not a dictatorship.

Subject: TNG
From: Crowhugger
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 05:08 PM

I look forward to following a creative, far reaching and peaceful...

...Occupy:TheNextGeneration, Hearts & Minds of the World.

Today, Occupy Toronto had their tents & ad hoc structures removed from St. James park (majority of the campers removed their stuff and themselves yesterday or earlier). It sounds like the park will be off limits to everybody while the in-ground sprinklers are serviced and winterized and the sod replaced, any other maintenance or restoration needed is done.

The court order for removal was clear that protesters are welcome between 5 a.m. and midnight daily and that the park is not an over night facility.

I totally support the Occupy message of unfair concentration of wealth. I understand the convenience of sleeping next to where you'll picket. And I hope that OT folks will understand that they've had more than fair time overwhelming a park that isn't for their exclusive use. Too bad it's the 99% of Torontonians who will end up paying for the repairs. It remains to be seen whether it will have been worth it.

Subject: RE: BS: OWS RIP
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 05:25 PM

Did they really do all that much damage? Don't they do sprinkler winterizing every year?