BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 03 Jan 12 - 08:16 AM

Looks like there might be more to this than met the eye (or video). There is an allegation that the woman assaulted someone, which would explain why she is being dealt with more severely than some of us might have expected.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-16394046

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 04:10 PM

Quite so, Dick.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 03:05 PM

No Richard, Allan Conn's post was the 100 marker. Maybe not "moddy off" as much as nodding off.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 12:56 PM

Funny, I'm sure I had the 100 on there but here it now isn't. Have hundreds become subject to modding off now?

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 12:56 PM

Not exactly a level playing field. Such judgements create more problems.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 12:50 PM

if the above story is true, I would agree that the people who attacked the girl, should have been dealt with more severely.
sentencing and judgements should be consistent.
no , bluesman i do not feel sorry for Emma West she deserved what she has got, but I agree that the people who attacked the girl in leicester were not punished correctly.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 12:34 PM

She will get bail. She will be released before Thursday the 15th of December. Police confirmed she is being held for her own protection as several threats were made on her life by extermists living within the UK.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2070562/Muslim-girl-gang-kicked-Rhea-Page-head-yelling-kill-white-slag-FREED.html

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Silas
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 11:53 AM

"very few English people are of pure anglo saxon descent,"


Erm... Anglo OR Saxon. The very term anglo-saxon give the clue...

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Bettynh
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 11:31 AM

Sometimes a story is like an earworm, only going away after you've heard it. This thread brings up a story in my past, so please bear with me so I can let it go:

The weather was beautiful early in May when my twins were 3 (must have been 1986). I heard that there was to be a kite festival in Boston, I had the day off, and the 3 of us took off. Since driving and parking in Boston is difficult, I stopped at the end of the Blue Line at Wonderland in Revere and we went by public transportation. Franklin Park was easy enough to find, and we settled to fly kites before noon. It was magic! We were set up on a blanket on the grass and the crowd of families gradually grew behind us on the walkway. Food stalls opened and the air was full of kites. I bought a couple cheap kites and managed to get them both into the air (the idea was that each kid could have his own kite. Not a great idea - they just let me fly them.) Then a flyover by a vintage plane, and parachutes dropped out of the plane. Franklin Park is a golf course, so the landing area was about a half-mile away, over a slight hill. Harlan said "I'm going THERE!" and took off running. I immediately got tangled in the kite strings. After the few minutes it took to wrestle the kites down, I started looking for Harlan, first carefully searching the immediate area, then wider areas. It seemed an eternity. Finally, a woman came up to me and said "Are you Harlan's mother?" Yup. He'd missed the connection on the way back and merged into the crowd behind us. Turns out he wouldn't talk to adults, but this woman's 7 year old got him to talk. Her kid and mine took a tour of the festival, but couldn't find me. We reconnected in the line for the Police Bus, which was already full of lost kids. Whew! Life lesson learned, by both Harlan and me (and, of course, Virgil, the twin that stayed and saw it all).

So what does this have to do with the bus incident? Bear with me....

Sometime around the time the other mother recognized me, I looked around. Of course she knew we belonged together. We were the only white faces in that entire crowd. I have to explain that I have a problem with color blindness when it comes to "race." I grew up in a sleeper town for Lynn, Massachusetts. There were distinctions, of course, but as a kid it came down to whether you attended church school on Friday (were Catholic) or Sunday (Protestant). The major Liberal breakthrough of my childhood involved a Girl Scout troop where the Catholic girls were allowed to join a troop that met in a Protestant church. There was one family with dark skin. They went to Sunday school, and Debby was my friend. I went to college in Worcester, Mass., a city of maybe 200 ethnic neighborhoods. It seemed that everyone was prejudiced against someone, and half the time the reason was pretty obscure. I worked in a teaching hospital where most of the interns and residents were from other countries. Then I moved to Nashua, NH, where I caught an earful from my aunt about the French Canadians ("They're all inbred, and they don't believe in educating their children. They're all welfare bums!") The whole idea of making blanket statements about people from the way they look or talk or worship just doesn't seem worth my time, although an individual's personal history is important, of course.

So I got my kid back, we had lunch, and it was time to get back to the car before naptime meltdown happened. We climbed onto a city bus, heading back to the subway, settling into big seats at the back. The bus started off. A man about half-way to the front of the bus said something. I don't know what. I was paying attention to my kids and shuffling blankets and bags of stuff. Suddenly, the whole busload of people stood up. About half surrounded the man in front of us and started murmuring, then yelling. The other half turned to us and started apologizing! "We're not all like that! Don't listen to that ignorant person! You have a right to be here, too!" The guy got up and left at the next stop. I was a bit shocked and at the same time comforted that total strangers would defend me like that. I was also a bit frightened to realize I'd put myself (and my kids) in a place where we might need defending. I must admit we never went back there, although weather and work schedules were the stated reasons.

There could have been a stronger reaction around that woman in the youtube video. I'm sorry the whole thing happened. Maybe next time it'll be different, but I bet there'll be a next time. Thanks for listening (reading. ;-))

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 11:05 AM

ok clarification, the vast majority of English people have a mixture of different nationalities in their blood.
very few english people do not have some immigrant ancestors, even the b eloved royal family have german and greek relations. kaiser wilhelm and george v were cousins

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 10:27 AM

"very few English people are of pure anglo saxon descent,"

I totally agree with everything else you said but found that comment a bit strange. No-one will be of pure Anglo-Saxon descent and even when the English kingdom was first created only some of the English would have been of Anglo-Saxon descent! I don't think even the most extreme of people would define being English as being of 100% Anglo-Saxon descent.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 09:54 AM

The child will probably therefore have a better Christmas in care.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 08:07 AM

And she is paying for it.
She will not have Cristmas with her child.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 08:01 AM

the fact is she is wrong, if someone is born in a country for example England, as many black people are, some are second and third generation, they are English and England is their country, sending people to some other country is not going to cure Englands economic problems,
first point is that certain jobs require certain qualifications, just because someone is white it doesnt mean they are qualified or have the brains to be a Doctor, So suppose we toke this womans advice and sent all black doctors, teachers, lawyers judges somewhere else, it doesnt mean that this woman is eligible to do their job.
what sort of a judge would she make?
I would be very curious to know how English this woman is,
very few English people are of pure anglo saxon descent,
This woman is an uneducated, stupid person

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 02:35 AM

Appeared in court and remanded.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-16051120

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 10:18 PM

"This lady is expressing an opinion. An opinion sadly shared by a growing number of middle class in the UK these days. "


She was also personally abusive and obscene. If she had simply expressed and opinion she'd be able to have Christmas with that little boy.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Jack Campin
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 08:36 PM

We all know people like that.

This one is only unusual in that the law wants to make her into a martyr for the Daily Mail readers.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 08:25 PM

Yep, mobiles are everywhere these days, Bluesman. Be very careful....

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 07:23 PM

It looked like somebody caught it on a phone camera. I'm just guessing, based on the finger that gets in the way every so often.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 07:09 PM

This lady is expressing an opinion. An opinion sadly shared by a growing number of middle class in the UK these days.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 06:13 PM

how come this was filmed, was it planned?
did the woman know she was being filmed, who videoed it?

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: akenaton
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 03:25 PM

I think we have been given a glimpse of the future.

"Be afraid....etc etc"

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 03:01 PM

she was remanded in custody till January 3 - for her own safety.

That seems excessive. And if her lawyer applied for bail on her behalf "her own safety" is her concern.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 02:47 PM

So, Christmas in jail for this hapless mum. At a hearing today she was remanded in custody till January 3 - for her own safety. She's paying a high price for her 15 minutes of fame.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-16051120

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 03 Dec 11 - 04:03 AM

"I'd hate to get hauled in for charges of whatever if a traffic camera caught me flipping off some arsehole who endangers my life and that of my grandson by some irresponsible manoeuvre on their part"

That surely is a bit of a bad comarison and wouldn't be at all comparable with what she did though? She was abusing completely innocent passengers simply because of who they were - not because of anything they had done to endanger her life etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 10:46 PM

So YOU like an HIV positive participant in a London Bath House (oxymoron)

Decide to "SHARE" the virus - with the less disciplined members of Mudcat during AIDS awareness week?

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

When asked to an Arbian why the Kurds were dispised - he said, look to your gypsies. The poor in are always with us.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 10:14 PM

I doubt if this woman will be charged with inciting racial hatred, and if she is, that would be way OTT. She's breached the peace ok, and in my book it would be fitting that she was "bound ovr? - ie told to behave herself in future. That's assuming she doesn't have mental health issues, just a volatile nature (some of the speculation about which is frankly prurient, especially quasi-clinical long-range diagnosis of the VirginiaTam variety).

Unfortunately I suspect she is being lined up for something a bit more severe than a binding over or conditional discharge, going by the decision - extraordinary on the face of it - to remand her in custody. If so, it won't do her or anybody any good.

Re MtheM's squabble with Richard Bridge, it is surely beyond argument that standards and values in relation to bad language have changed dramatically over the past 40-50 years. A judge in England the other day told police to grow up and stop nicking people for fucking and blinding at them, which is the sort of stuff we are all likely to hear every day.

I agree with Leej about the kid. Toddlers are unbelievably resilient little items.

Eliza: NOT Hyde Park corner. SPEAKERS' Corner. (At the other end of Park Lane: the Marble Arch end.)

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 08:38 PM

Soddez cela pour une alouette

Go to

http://www.yourrights.org.uk/yourrights/right-of-free-expression/criminal-law-restrictions-on-freedom-of-expression/racial-hatred.html

Then search for "racial hatred"

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 08:35 PM

http://www.yourrights.org.uk/yourrights/right-of-free-expression/criminal-law-restrictions-on-freedom-of-expression/racial-hatred.htm

Second time lucky

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 02:57 PM

The best counter to ignorance is information.

Me

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: GUEST,999
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 02:41 PM

Never attribute to malice that which can be reasonably explained by stupidity.

Spider Robinson

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 02:36 PM

404 error.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 02:26 PM

Let's have some facts about relevant applicable law.


http://www.yourrights.org.uk/yourrights/right-of-free-expression/criminal-law-restrictions-on-freedom-of-expression/racial-hatre

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 02:22 PM

Kat, those are both ticketable offenses. I had a couple of months of stressful travel which culminated in my fuse getting too short. I got a warning for flipping off an unmarked patrol car, which was tailgating me for twenty minutes, a while ago. I also had a guy threaten to beat me up in Reston VA for birding him, for cutting me off with no signal. I had to call 911 to get him to stop following me.

I speak from experience. There are real consequences to aggressive anger. The lady needs at least a talking to before someone gets hurt.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 02:06 PM

I am pretty much in agreement with you, LeeJ. I don't condone what she did, but I'd hate to get hauled in for charges of whatever if a traffic camera caught me flipping off some arsehole who endangers my life and that of my grandson by some irresponsible manoeuvre on their part. Heck as far as that goes, I might get hauled in for sitting on my front step and yelling at people to slow down when they go by at 40-50mph in a 20mph zone!

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 02:05 PM

She was abusing the other passengers and engaging in public obscenity. At the least, disturbing the peace and disorderly conduct.

Was the child in danger? What if she had chanced upon someone as aggressive and uncontrolled as herself, but more physical. Would she used the boy as a shield? It is more than reckless to pick a fight with strangers on a bus. I think that evoking "big brother" is over the top. I think at the least she needed to be interviewed by public safety professionals to try and determine how much risk she poses to the child and to herself.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 01:39 PM

There are people out there who will attack someone for wearing furs, wearing KKK robes, seeking birthcontrol, or looking them in the eye. A woman walking down the street with Klan robes and holding a baby probably needs counseling, but I don't think it's illegal nor should it be. There is plenty of room for righteous condemnation of those who are wrong without resorting to making such activity a crime against the state, at least in my opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: jacqui.c
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 01:32 PM

Problem is, there are still people out there whose response could be violent, and with disregard for the child on her lap. Not that that is right, but it is a fact.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 01:28 PM

I am not aware that ranting at people in public is a crime. Those who disagree need to speak up instead of cowering and waiting for Big Brother to bring down his mighty hand on them. This was a woman with a child, and as such represented no real threat to anyone, unless you think the child is at risk. The child appeared neat, chubby,and well cared for. I can't speak to his mental state, and neither can you. I wouldn't have chosen to have him hear the crap she was spouting, but many of us enlightened ones heard worse as children.
When we look for the law to punish those we disapprove of, the door is truly open to those who disagree with us to have US silenced.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 12:52 PM

Youtube evidence of a stupid biker doing 130 through the Dartford tunnel - and then walking to his own front door (!) has been used to secure a dangerous driving conviction.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 08:24 AM

Surely even had there not been any racist aspect she would still be committing a crime. The racist element only exacerbates it further. Wouldn't she have been at the very least guilty of what we in Scotland call a breach of the peace? Surely it is not just young lads who should be reprimanded for shouting and swearing at people.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 01 Dec 11 - 03:03 PM

Censorship? No one is trying to prevent free speech, in the proper venue. She is totally allowed to express her point of view in a moderated public forum. It is harassing people, going about their normal business, on public transport that is the crime.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 Dec 11 - 02:36 PM

Well, she has been arrested:
The backlash to the video prompted police to investigate and a woman has been arrested in connection with the video. The woman, 34-year-old Emma West, appeared in court today and has been charged with racial harassment. Frankly, NewsFeed is a bit flabbergasted. We've come to expect a type of vigilante cyber-justice over these types of displays, but having the courts intervene due to hate speech on a YouTube video still seems to be unfamiliar territory.

Read more: HERE

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 01 Dec 11 - 12:31 AM

I concede your point up to a point, Richard. My main problem, I would remind you, was the paradox that it was those very people most opposed to ANY form of censorship who nevertheless were most enthusiastically prepared to welcome such censorship in matters racial. I suggest, and draw, no moral conclusion from this, but simply postulate it as an inconsistency.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: kendall
Date: 30 Nov 11 - 08:09 PM

In public, that is.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: kendall
Date: 30 Nov 11 - 08:08 PM

Using that kind of gutter language in Maine in public is unlawful.As it should be. I guess nobody told our uncouth oaf of a governor.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Nov 11 - 06:41 PM

Regrettably MtheGM you run up the flag of "offensive in a frankly archaic way without considering why terms may be offensive.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 30 Nov 11 - 02:49 PM

As an aged stickler, I'm afraid I never accept very bad language in public. I spoke quietly and firmly to three teenagers sitting in our library not too long ago. Every other word was f***, they were speaking loudly and there were young children with their mothers choosing books. They were very good and stopped it immediately, so I thanked them with a smile. It only needs for us all to make clear what is permissible and what is not. But the mothers there hadn't acted, and neither had the librarians. I suppose I could have received a right mouthful, or worse, but someone has to draw a line IMO.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 30 Nov 11 - 11:31 AM

I didn't claim the words, or their use, to be in any way related, similar, or cognate, Richard ~~ simply cited them as two words whose use many people might find offensive and unacceptable.

I suspect you got that really and are merely at your hobby of 'let's stir it up a bit'. In which case, enjoy; but do not expect anybody to be impressed.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Nov 11 - 11:00 AM

"Fuck" is something that everybody does (well, except for the very unlucky). "Nigger" is something that not everybody is. I do not agree that the use of the first term is in any realistic way similar to the latter.

Incitements to hatred are not simply expression, but are oppression. That is why they are rightly controlled.