BS: The tacky side of Christmas

Subject: RE: BS: The tacky side of Christmas
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 28 Dec 11 - 05:11 AM

As JennieG said Christmas is different in Australia -

Google search on Australian Christmas

Aussie Christmas Carol

Ideal stocking filler for a farmer

Subject: RE: BS: The tacky side of Christmas
From: Musket
Date: 28 Dec 11 - 07:10 AM

The tacky side of Xmas?

Xmas used to be all about Santa, Morcambe and Wise, James Bond, Dad getting pissed up, Mum making him "wear" his Xmas dinner, opening presses, putting up cheap decorations, sending cards to people you hardly know and don't actually care much for, a few days off, (or double time if you were on the rota) and watching a panto.

All the time though there were those out to ruin it, and they seem to be getting more vocal.

Some tacky story about a woman on a donkey explaining to her husband why a) she was a virgin and b) she still is, despite evidence to the contrary. These people want us to forget Xmas pud, socks and after shave wrapped in paper and getting pissed up. They reckon you can't "celebrate" Xmas unless you buy into their tacky side of Xmas, something to do with Jesus. (Strange, I only use that word when catching my fingers in the fridge door.)

Tell 'em to get lost. I do.

I suppose the thrust, if you are still reading this diatribe, is that there is no such thing as tacky. You have fond nostalgia for whatever your childhood Xmas was, or what your memory wants you to believe it was. If that was on your knees feeling guilty in a drafty church or that was watching the grown ups preteen to like each other, it was still Xmas.

The chrome trim on my car is tacky too. I bought it in May though, so not sure if tackiness and date sit well together?

Xmas isn't about God, Jesus or any other deity. It is about recreating your better Xmas experiences. I have friends who follow faiths other than Christianity, and many more like me, not a member of any such club. You know what? We all celebrate it. Not because we buy into an idealised belief but because we are capable of enjoying ourselves and a few days where everybody is enjoying themselves too sound like a good time to do so.

Try organising a party in mid January and you will see what I mean...

Subject: RE: BS: The tacky side of Christmas
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Dec 11 - 08:38 AM

Christmas is about absolutely anything that anyone wants it to be about, Ian. I see little justification for you getting all pissy and nasty about the fact that some religiously minded people don't think it's about exactly what you think it's about. If you are bothered by small-minded chauvinism, snide self-righteousness, and rank prejudice, maybe you should look in the mirror to find some more of it to get upset about. ;-D

As for your description of it being "all about Santa, Morcambe and Wise, James Bond, Dad getting pissed up, Mum making him "wear" his Xmas dinner, opening presses, putting up cheap decorations, sending cards to people you hardly know and don't actually care much for"....

....that's funny! ;-D Yup, that's the general moronic norm when it comes to Christmas, and you appear to be in favour of it? This is like sayin', "Okay, a couple of thousand years of collective cultural heritage doesn't mean shit to me...but don't suggest that I shouldn't get pissed up, spend money like a drunken sailor, put silly lawn ornaments in front of my house, and go broke buying stuff for people I don't even like!"

Sounds like you're arguing in favour of the Neanderthal lifestyle to me, Ian, even though you yourself KNOW it's stupid. This proves that familiarity will always trump common sense, good taste, and rationality, doesn't it? ;-D

As for your oafish observations regarding the symbolic and ancient story of the Virgin Mary, they show all the dimwitted perception of a pissed-up water buffalo attempting to comment on the Mona Lisa. Have another ale, for God's sake, and piss off.

Subject: RE: BS: The tacky side of Christmas
From: Musket
Date: 28 Dec 11 - 10:56 AM

Will do LH.

It's wonderful down here. I like being dimwitted and even better, discussing such things on a chat room or whatever this technically is, with people named after those The Lone Ranger kicked the crap out of when I was a lad. Neanderthal, that's me. You know what? It sounds rather liberating.

And that's the point. When I was a lad.

I like the tinselly side of Xmas. I like the tacky side of it. It's called nostalgia.

I also like acting like a drunken sailor, (but in my case without a sore arse afterwards.)

Two thousand years of culture? I suppose it is really, and had quite an effect on my ancestors. The issue is those who think it should have an effect on me too. It does, but only when they knock on the door or barge into my office saying they don't want to work on a Sunday and apparently I can't make them. (One or two have been put straight on that score mind..)

You missed my point in order to put me down. Call it a sentinel post if you like, just to see who would get arsey about it. Pity it was you, I expected a real person but ah well, beggars can't be choosers.

In reply to your first point, I am not getting pissy and nasty as you eloquently put it about God botherers not sharing my view of Xmas. Quite the opposite. I am getting crabby (I really don't care enough one way or the other to be as you describe me,) about them wanting me to either share their delusion or "have no right to celebrate if you don't believe." as some git said to me at the office the other week.

So, to sum up without being too cryptic; The tacky side of Xmas (this topic?) includes the supreme tackiness of those who use it as an excuse to impose their superstition on rational people who, like me, just want to have a good time.

And I did.

And I am.

I had a mate I used to work with many years ago who we named after a Brave out of cowboy movies. We called him Two Dogs Fucking. Is he of your tribe?

Subject: RE: BS: The tacky side of Christmas
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 28 Dec 11 - 11:13 AM

Gnu:
I have to ask: Car antlers.. I wish *I* had thought of that. >;-)

Do you mean:
A) I wish I had thought to add that to a list of 'tacky' Christmas, or,
B) I wish I'd come up with that money-spinning idea?

Subject: RE: BS: The tacky side of Christmas
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Dec 11 - 12:49 PM

Two Dogs Fucking is a legendary figure all over North America, Ian. I regret to say he is not of my tribe, but I've been hearing about him all my life and I would dearly relish an opportunity to meet him and find out how he managed to cope with having such a distinctive name foisted upon him by his inlaws. ;-D Alas! I think he has probably passed away by now. That joke's been around for a very long time.

I don't think I really missed your point. I got your point. But it provided a fine opportunity for me to engage in some humour and to make a point in the opposite direction. That is, you have the "God-botherers"...religious pests who want to harangue, convert, and "save" everyone else by making them adopt a set of religious beliefs.

That's problem # 1.

Then you have the "God-botherer-botherers"...anti-religious pests who want to harangue, convert, and "rescue" everyone else by making them adopt an anti-religious set of beliefs, and who are forever tilting against their favorite windmills: the church, traditional religion, and "God" (their very narrow idea of whatever they think that word means).

That's problem # 2.

Then you have the rest of humanity (like me), who wish that the above 2 groups of utter pests would learn to leave other people alone, accept the fact that not everyone needs to think the same way, and live and let live.

Religious zealots and anti-religious zealots are 2 sets of pureblind lunatics cut out of the very same piece of cloth as far as I'm concerned.

I was a bit worried that you might be a ravening member of group # 2. If all you are is an ordinary fellow who enjoys having a good time....well, I'm all for that. Enjoy! ;-D

As for the Lone Ranger, that effete piece of meat couldn't find his way across the road, let alone handle himself around traditional Indians. We'd have stripped him naked, hung him upside down from a tall tree, and let Tonto pitch prickly pears at him all day to teach him to respect his betters.

The "Christmas" story actually goes way back far beyond the beginnings of the Christian religion. The idea of the "virgin birth" was contained long before Christianity in old Egyptian religious tales about the man-God Horus which far pre-dated anything that came from the Hebrews or the Christians. What Christmas really is about is: the Winter Solstice. And the return of the Sun (symbolically personalized as "the Son of God" in some religions). The longest night is on December 21st. Every ancient civilization gave enormous importance to the regular yearly cycles of the Sun, the Earth, and the Moon, as life depended upon the regular procession of those cycles. Upon that depended the seasons, planting time, harvest, etc....vital matters of survival. And that is why every ancient culture observed the sky faithfully and had a huge festival around late December...to recognize the return of the Sun and the beginning of a New Year of hope and renewal. The Christian religion grafted a relatively new set of beliefs (only 2,000 years old, which is a drop in the bucket) onto a very ancient festival that probably goes back 15,000 years or more. They moved Jesus' actual birth time (which was reputedly in the spring) to December 25 in order to make their "Son of God" fit in with the great Solstice festival of pre-Christian religions. The Sun became symbolized by the Christians as "the Son". The Sun symbolically dies on the longest night (this symbolized by Christ's death on the cross). Since Jesus reputedly spent 3 days in the tomb after his death, the celebration of his return is delayed for those 3 days...from midnight on Dec 21st to midnight on Dec 24th...Christmas Eve. He symbolically rises on the 25th and everyone celebrates. "Santa Claus" is another anthropomorphic figure who really represents this same thing: the return of the Sun, with all the gifts it brings us.

That's the conversion of tremendously ancient Solstice festivals of the very long pre-Christian era into a recent Christian story built around the life of the prophet Jesus.

You may object to the idea of Jesus all you want, Ian, that's up to you...but you cannot object to the Solstice. It's a real natural event. It's been happening ever since the planet Earth came into being. It's a damned good reason to celebrate, because without the gradual return of the Sun's light and heat after Dec 21st each year we'd soon all freeze to death on this planet.

So...Happy Solstice, Ian! ;-D

Subject: RE: BS: The tacky side of Christmas
From: gnu
Date: 28 Dec 11 - 03:19 PM

Nigel... the COIN of course. >;-)

Subject: RE: BS: The tacky side of Christmas
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Dec 11 - 07:18 PM

Its a funny thing - some of us adore tacky - in all its manifestations.

Some of us prefer Skegness, Blackpool and Weymouth to the more refined seaside resorts and deserted beaches.

I think its same with Christmas. The turkey, the songs, the crowded streets , the acquisitive kids checking out the toys in the Argos catalogue, Holiday Inn on telly, Bing hitting the bells on the Christmas tree with his pipe in White Christmas. twas ever thus.

What's that line about the blue remembered hills of childhood, and Houseman can't walk that land and its paths any more.

With a tacky Christmas - you somehow do walk those paths.....

Subject: RE: BS: The tacky side of Christmas
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 28 Dec 11 - 09:07 PM

gotta have some tacky stuff or it isn't a normal Christmas

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: The tacky side of Christmas
From: JennieG
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 12:34 AM

I remember reading an article, or perhaps a letter, in a newspaper....it was a few years ago now......the paper had been running articles about "the reason for the season" and "the true meaning of Christmas" and "the commercialisation of a religious occasion" - you get my drift. The article, or perhaps letter, pointed out that the winter solstice celebration was a pagan festival going on for many years before Christianity got hold of it and hung Jesus' birth on it - and if the pagans were just trying to get it back, who could blame them?

Cheers
JennieG

Subject: RE: BS: The tacky side of Christmas
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 01:15 AM

Yup. Christianity was a Johnny-come-lately that hitched its rising star to a very, very old festival, as I said in my lengthy post a few posts back.

(None of that is Jesus' fault, by the way. He didn't start Christianity...some of his followers did it in his name some time after he was gone. I also suspect he never said a word about his mother bringing him forth in a "virgin birth"...nor a number of other unusual things that his followers came up with later in order to sell their new religion more effectively. He mostly taught above loving others, not judging them, and treating others the way you would wish them to treat you...with love, kindness, generosity, and respect.)

The term "pagan" is used to describe some of those old pre-Christian religions. The "pagans" had it right...Christmas is really about the Winter Solstice, and the Winter Solstice is real, scientifically observable, verifiable, and of considerable interest to any thinking person whether or not he describles himself as "religious". That's why it has been enshrined as a celebratory time in virtually every culture that has ever existed (on this planet).

Subject: RE: BS: The tacky side of Christmas
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 01:20 AM

Oh, and yeah! The tacky Christmas stuff can definitely be fun. ;-D That's one reason why most of us get into it to one extent or another. I really enjoy a lot of that side of Christmas. Putting up brightly colored lights, for instance, is a symbolic way of calling up light in the darkness of early winter....which is a great thing to do. And it's fun too.

Subject: RE: BS: The tacky side of Christmas
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 05:30 AM

Did Lindisfarne's song make it out of England? I always loved it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg_dsk7u26A

Subject: RE: BS: The tacky side of Christmas
From: Musket
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 08:26 AM

Yeah, I buy into tradition..

Funnily enough LH, I buy into Jesus as well. As an example of someone who said love each other when everybody else found reasons to hate each other. No matter that a historical maverick was elevated to being more than just skin & bone like the rest of us; that was a plausible way of getting the masses to buy into the idea. Not a bad example of spreading love and tolerance. Obviously, to "believe" in him requires intolerance, but if there is a God, he sure understands irony....

No, its just that to point out the tacky side infers that the whole idea of Xmas is to some fixed agenda, and I suspect our friends who smile too much reckon they have a copy of said agenda.

Oh, I did have that ale you suggested LH. I then had another. After a while, everybody was my best mate.

Who needs religion when you have Pale Rider? And that comes in barrels you can see, feel and empty.

Happy N(hic!)ew Year!!

Subject: RE: BS: The tacky side of Christmas
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 11:28 AM

You bet! ;-D

Subject: RE: BS: The tacky side of Christmas
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 01:19 PM

As a general comment, I think we need to lighten up from time to time, relax our uptight standards of 'taste' and wallow in tackiness, it's good for us. I occasionally go to Great Yarmouth (UK) in the summer, sit on the promenade and watch all the Kiss-me-Quick hats and huge candyflosses going past. I buy a ghastly burger with onions that make your eyes water and have a go at Bingo. I might buy a rude postcard, and go home having had a good giggle. Lovely!

Subject: RE: BS: The tacky side of Christmas
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 01:38 PM

Oh yeh! Love yarmouth - probably that street is the cheapest place in the world to buy Christy Moore records. fabulous place!

Subject: RE: BS: The tacky side of Christmas
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 04:38 PM

Is Great Yarmouth somewhere on the Channel coast?

Subject: RE: BS: The tacky side of Christmas
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 05:24 PM

Yes its on the east coast - a county called Norfolk. Dickens david Copperfield is set partly in the town. It was a big fishing town when the herring fleet was doing business - til the start of the 1960's.

Its a beautiful old fashioned sort of place - mainly getting its earnings from tourism.. there are lots of holiday caravan sites surrounding Yarmouth. I suspect it bacame an important holiday resort at the coming of the railway in the 19th century and beecause of that - there are lots of 19th century buildings facing onto the seafront. But nowadays its very downmarket. That's why I feel comfortable there!

Just inland from there are the Norfolk Broads a lovely set of waterways and shallow lakes with islands. Very popular for sailing types and leisure cruisers. I think its more the North sea than the Channel, but I might be wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: The tacky side of Christmas
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 05:27 PM

Sounds lovely. David Bowie once mentioned "the Norfolk Broads" in a song, and I always wondered about it.

Subject: RE: BS: The tacky side of Christmas
From: Elmore
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 08:53 PM

The entire ordeal is pretty tacky IMO, except some of the music, and (God help me)a really corny movie entitled "Scrooge" with Albert Finney.

Subject: RE: BS: The tacky side of Christmas
From: frogprince
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 10:35 PM

Isn't the tacky side the side with the velcro on it?

Subject: RE: BS: The tacky side of Christmas
From: Musket
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 05:08 AM

If your velcro is tacky, send it back as the glue holding the hooks onto the tape has not set....

If your Xmas is tacky, well done, you've arrived.

Great Yarmouth eh? An American friend was with me in London and commented that the place was too modern to fit into his preconceived image of the place. He was then going to visit some long lost relatives in Great Yarmouth. On his return he said "That's it! That place is the living image of the old movies (Ealing variety I assume) portraying England!

In short, Great Yarmouth has reached the '60s and is plotting a course towards the '70s.

And that makes it a rather charming place. I was there on business only a few weeks ago. Bit of a bugger to drive to from 'Oop North....

Subject: RE: BS: The tacky side of Christmas
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 07:36 AM

IMO, the whole of Norfolk is a huge time-warp. Life here is generally relaxed and moves at a slower pace. People aren't so driven by fashion or new-fangled stuff. The history all around us here is amazing. I love it all! But Yarmouth's tackiness is really excellent, lightens the heart and gives you a cheerful feeling. Ditto Christmas Tackiness. We shouldn't be Taste Gestapos all the time, it's snobby and stuck-up!

Subject: RE: BS: The tacky side of Christmas
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 12:55 PM

True, Eliza. After all, there is something to be said for a bit of mindless fun now and then, as the bishop said to the prostitute.

Subject: RE: BS: The tacky side of Christmas
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 12:58 PM

Teehee LH!

Subject: RE: BS: The tacky side of Christmas
From: gnu
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 02:45 PM

It blows my mind?

Subject: RE: BS: The tacky side of Christmas
From: Neil D
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 11:21 PM

Those hideous cheap plastic inflatable lawn ornaments. When inflated they lean every which way, like so many drunken Santas and snowmen. I saw a row of semi-inflated Santas outside of a drive-thru all bent over like they were leaving their lunch on their shiny black boots. When uninflated it looks like someone left piles of trash all over their yard.