BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 24 Apr 12 - 06:19 PM

Kinda like the FOX guarding the chicken coop!

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 24 Apr 12 - 04:30 PM

As irritating, misguided, and wrong, as this woman is, I hope that you all realize that Hannity is giving her a platform in order to ridicule her and to set her up so that he and Colmes can take self-righteous potshots at her.

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: Don Firth
Date: 24 Apr 12 - 04:26 PM

Hell isn't hot enough for that woman and those who think like her.

And Hell is not hot enought for the "god" that she worships!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: GUEST,999
Date: 24 Apr 12 - 03:59 PM

If y'all wanna see what yer up against, watch the following. Gives new meaning to the word 'psychotic'.

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 24 Apr 12 - 03:30 PM

Just had a quick look through Yoga classes on offer in the Norwich (UK) area, and there are several taking place weekly in Catholic and C of E Church halls, and also Methodist ones. I think the whole thing is extremely daft, you'd think they were doing drugs or something!

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: Don Firth
Date: 24 Apr 12 - 02:45 PM

11:45 a.m. PDT. My wife, the Sunday school teacher, just left for her yoga class.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: Penny S.
Date: 24 Apr 12 - 02:34 PM

I still think it's feeling anything that might in other contexts be regarded as ecstatic in anything except a religiously controlled environment. The thinking is secondary.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: GUEST,999
Date: 24 Apr 12 - 01:50 PM

It seems to me that it isn't yoga that's considered unchristian by various churches and organizations, but rather thinking anything inside one's own head. Why would churches want to stifle thought? Ask me if I know how to lead with my chin.

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: Wesley S
Date: 24 Apr 12 - 01:39 PM

For some reason I'm reminded of Susan Werner's : "Why is your heaven so small"


excuse me sir, what did you say?
when you shout so loud, it's hard to tell
you say that i must change my ways
for i am surely bound to hell

well i know you'd damn me if you could
but my friend, that's simply not your call
if god is great and god is good
why is your heaven so small

you say you know you say you've read
that holy bible up on your shelf
do you recall when jesus said
judge not, lest ye be judged yourself

for i know you'd damn me if you could
but my friend, that's simply not your call
if god is great, and god is good
why is your heaven so small

with your fists that shake, and your eyes that burn
what makes you do these things you do?
i would not be surprised to learn
someone somewhere excluded you

but my friend, imagine it if you would
a love much mightier than us all
o if god is great and god is good
why is your heaven
so small

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 24 Apr 12 - 11:56 AM

""Don't you feel that a religious group that is very defensive and hostile to anything and everything is palpably not confident or comfortable in its own skin?""

OH YES Eliza!!

When I was working in a primary school and saw the Jehovah Witness kids taken away from classes on comparative religion, in which pupils learn how other cultures worship, without taking part in any rites or ceremonies, I thought to myself; "How weak your faith must be, if you believe that mere exposure to the existence of other faiths will corrupt your children and turn them away"

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: GUEST,Hookey Wole
Date: 24 Apr 12 - 11:42 AM

The USA has always been a great place for snappy slogan T shirts..

Could someone please send over a box of various size:


"Evangelical Christians are UnChristian"


.. make mine XXL..

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Apr 12 - 11:24 AM

http://www.christianyoga.us/home.htm

The Yoga of Jesus

I think the nay-sayers are outnumbered.

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: Amos
Date: 24 Apr 12 - 10:51 AM

Hell, life itself is unchristian in that sense of the word. Why, life is full of sin, cuss words, strange affairs, and hypnotic revels, not to mention epiphanies derived from summer breezes at sunrise, which is not an Authorized Source, and forgiveness born from babbling brooks and hope, which are not Approved Dispensaries of Forgiveness.

So maybe them elders were right. But it sure makes "christianity" a lot less appealing and it doesn't sound like the Original Deal to me.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Apr 12 - 10:29 AM

I've heard young priests question yoga and tai chi and reiki because they have roots in non-Christian religions...

Fascinating, Joe, especially since so-called "Christianity" has its roots in Non-Christian religions.

I guess stupidity is a positive virtue to some "Christians"[sic]

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: Wesley S
Date: 24 Apr 12 - 08:30 AM

I would have been tempted to tell her that God's a beach.

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: Michael
Date: 24 Apr 12 - 07:25 AM

A few years ago I was involved in organising an arthritis self-management course; one technique for relieving pain and helping to sleep was a visualisation exercise 'get comfortable, breathe deeply,imagine you are on a sandy beach...'.
A Jehovah's Witness phoned me after the first session to say she wouldn't be able to continue as the church elders had told her that this prevented her 'keeping God in her mind at all times' as she was required to do.
I pointed out that this was but one small suggestion in a six session course and she could ignore it. But to no avail; The Elders had Spoken.

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 24 Apr 12 - 05:03 AM

The aggressively conservative folks tend to pick up their marbles and leave when they don't get their way, but the liberal and middle of the road folks tend to have more marbles, and without them, the conservatives often aren't able to keep churches together.

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Apr 12 - 02:53 AM

I think the right wing is taking an increasingly aggressive stance in many of the Christian churches, including my own Catholic church. It makes me very uneasy, because their attempts to repress "liberals" take place on every front imaginable. I've heard young priests question yoga and tai chi and reiki because they have roots in non-Christian religions - but I know of many Catholic retreat centers that offer Tai Chi, Yoga, and Reiki. The nuns I know like all these practices because they relieve pain. The priests who condemn it, are too young to have known chronic pain.
A couple of years ago, I took a class on morality from a young priest fresh out of Rome with a moral theology degree. Maybe I was a little too tough on him. He left the class in tears when I publicly scoffed at his questioning of yoga and tai chi - but I just couldn't allow him to teach lay people that crap without at least being questioned. He reported me to the diocese; and I got a call from the diocesan office, asking me to be a little more understanding of young priests.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 11:34 PM

I'm wondering why yoga had been practiced in that hall and what changed to cause it be abruptly ended. Sometimes something like this starts with just one person.

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 10:06 PM

GUEST,c.g. - PM
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 02:45 PM

So the vicar said we could use the village hall for yoga provided we only did the exercises and didn't do any meditation.

Sigh.

-------------------

When I was learning to meditate around 20 years my teacher was a Catholic who said prayer was talking to god/higher self & meditation was quieting the mind & listening for answers.

One of the books I read around that time was about the Jesuit priests who went to Japan to learn meditation from Zen Buddhist monks because Christianity had no tradition of meditation! The monks told them that Christianity did indeed have such a tradition back in the earlier centuries, but I can't remember when or where I read it

google led me to this article Za-zen meaning "to sit to inner stillness." ... The meditation form that we use, grew out of the meeting between zen buddhist monks in Japan and the Jesuit monks at the turn of the century when they got in contact with each other.

google also led to one of Thomas Merton's books & I remember his name & I'm sure I read some of his books at the time

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: GUEST,Hookey Wole
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 09:39 PM

so what kinds of physical exercise do fundies approve of ???



ps.. Jim Dixon

had a quick look at link,

and half way down the contents list I momentarily misread

"Benny Hill - False Prophet"

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: olddude
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 09:34 PM

I guess I will burn because I take my faith seriously and I also do yoga because it is wonderful for chronic pain.   The God i know gave us not only free will, but the ability to think and the ability to resolve problems. hence he gave me yoga and I don't think he made any mistakes there either.

I am sure glad that I love Christ and I don't call myself Christian. They seem to go in different directions these days

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 09:27 PM

Here's a page full of links to lots of articles on both sides of the question:

Christian Yoga? at ChristianResearchService.com.

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 08:42 PM

Susan - Prayer and meditation aren't really the same thing. Prayer is the conscious direction of a message toward the Creator, isn't it? Meditation is an attempt to quiet the mind and achieve inner silence. Most people have great difficulty quieting their mind. Many find it virtually impossible to do so, as they are constantly thinking about something. Talking to your idea of God is one thing. Listening in silence is another. You could, of course, do both...first one, then the other...and I expect that some people do.

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 08:14 PM

There are days I'd like to see about a dozen far-out fundamentalist groups set down together on an island.... the Devil fighters, the snake handlers, the "end times" groups, the Comet followers, the virulent anti-gay bunch (like the church in Topeka, Kans..)...etc. Let 'em sort it all out.

Who - me? sadistic sense of humor? Nawwwwwww...

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: gnu
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 07:35 PM

I'll bet these guys wouldn't even help a Frisbeeteryan get his soul down off the roof.

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: wysiwyg
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 07:13 PM

Re: "no meditating"

In the circles I run in, it is honest to say that one prays during yoga, even if one only means that one is purposely thinking intentionally in a particular direction, and is that not what meditation is?


Re: Methodist/mainstream - lot of shades of gray in every denomination, in every community, THEN there are ALSO control freaks.


But I say again, if one thinks of it as a cultural collision, it is actually possible to find a new friend. Despite astonishing differences in worldview/values. Respect has a way of working itself down deep, when it is sincerely offered. Like a seed, planted.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 06:35 PM

Just watched Pasolini's Canturbury Tales on DVD. The scene in hell as demon & devils shitting out friars. These days, they'll be shitting out Born Again Christian Fundamentalists.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5wjR5emX4s

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 06:22 PM

Okay, well, there are a whole bunch of mainstream Christian churches in this town who think yoga is great …….


Some years ago, the Methodist church (which I would consider as one of the mainstream Christian churches) in the next village threw the yoga group out for much the same reason.


DC

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 05:59 PM

Did you ever read a book on Taoism? You might find it quite likeable.

For sure. I've got about 10,000 translation of the Tao Te Ching and several more of Chuang Tzu. In both cases I love the old Gia Fu Feng translations. Alan Watt's Tao: The Watercourse Way was important to me once & probably still is but it must be 30 years since I read it.

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 05:19 PM

I find it hard to understand why religious people don't pray for the devil. If there's a sinner who needs it, s/he's gotta be at the top of the list.

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 04:10 PM

Don't you feel that a religious group that is very defensive and hostile to anything and everything is palpably not confident or comfortable in its own skin? A strong and stable faith group wouldn't be at all phased by yoga, meditation, Morris men in strange costumes etc. It would be "All welcome, come on in!"

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 04:03 PM

Hmm. There seems to be a little Confucian here......

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 03:41 PM

When I was at the Straw Bear Morris Dancing event in Whittlesea (UK) the church was kindly providing hot soup in the chancel and we all sat in the pews and supped. A man arrived wearing a very realistic devil costume (he'd been performing a mummer's play) He crept in and asked the man at the door "Is it okay if I come in? Will it offend anyone?" The chap roared with laughter and said "That's the first time the Devil hs ever asked to come in here, but you're very welcome mate!" I smiled and smiled. There were also men dressed as women with very large busts and red lipstick. The church folk just laughed. Now that's a sensible attitude IMO.

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 03:14 PM

Good quote, FrogPrince--for this thread, we can change it to "the sneaking suspicion that someone, somewhere is trying to make their life better."

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 03:13 PM

That guest was me, fp.

HL also said, "I never lecture, not because I am shy or a bad speaker, but simply because I detest the sort of people who go to lectures and don't want to meet them."

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 03:09 PM

Control freaks. You find them just about everywhere. The best thing is to avoid them if at all possible. And if not, well, then, you deal with it as best you can.

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 03:08 PM

Mencken it was, fp.

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: frogprince
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 03:02 PM

Was it Menkin? "Puritanism is the sneaking suspicion that someone, somewhere, is having fun".

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: Penny S.
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 02:53 PM

I remember a case some years ago where a church hall expelled the yoga class. It's a bit of a problem if the church hall is the only one in the village.

What is it with people who are not content with not doing something they don't approve of themselves, or advising others not to do it, must make sure they ban others from it - even where the something is, unlike smoking, or similar activities, apparently harmless in real life, if not positively beneficial?

It does seem, doesn't it, that if the something makes people feel good in a way analogous to the way a certain style of worship makes people feel, then it must be prevented.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 02:49 PM

Taoists, by the way, have never taken over anywhere, because they don't want to take over! ;-) They believe in leaving other people alone, since everyone is equal, and therefore entirely free to be themselves.

It's Confucianists who took over China, and they've got a rule and a hierarchy for everything. They want to take over. Confucianists are quite affirmative to the idea of fighting wars. It fits right in with their hierarchical and rulebound philosophy.

Psychologically speaking, the Japanese are probably the most rigidly Confucianist nation in all of Asia...although they don't call themselves by that label. They use other cultural labels.

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: Paul Burke
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 02:48 PM

Well the Japanese armies are gone, and the Taoists are still there, so I suppose they flowed fairly well. Not the same ones by now of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: GUEST,c.g.
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 02:45 PM

So the vicar said we could use the village hall for yoga provided we only did the exercises and didn't do any meditation.

Sigh.

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 02:38 PM

Buddha had already done a great deal of other stuff in his life, some of it quite rigorous, before he sat down under that tree, Sweeney. ;-) He had tried just about everything. Very few people have the courage and tenacity to give up what he gave up (power, wealth, privilege, and luxury of the highest degree) or to do what he voluntarily did (face poverty and extreme ascetisism), and the same is true of Jesus. They both had tremendous courage. They both were willing to sacrifice all they had.

Did you ever read a book on Taoism? You might find it quite likeable. It's just common sense, in fact, and it doesn't require you to believe in a diety.

The harmonious path is simply the path that works best in a natural way. For a hawk, that path leads to catching a mouse. For a mouse, that path leads to avoiding the hawk. Yes, various things in Nature kill each other. Certainly. And we kill millions of animals to fill our plates, but most of us don't see the killing being done, do we? We hide from it. Doesn't change the fact that it's happening. I didn't promise you that nothing would get killed, I said there's a harmonious way.

The harmonious way of dealing with an Evangelical Church that doesn't like you is to find some other church with a better attitude toward you.

The question about Japanese armies...Taoist teachings always tended away from hierarchical thinking toward the freedom and equality of individuals, each to live totally freely in their own way, and to do no harm. A Taoist would normally avoid getting involved at all in things like wars, military service, etc. Sometimes you have no choice about it, though, because that thing comes upon you and forces you. If so, you deal with it the best way you can at the moment. Maybe you get killed. No philosophy on Earth can guarantee you won't get killed in a war, but you're a lot less likely to get killed if you look for peace during your life instead of looking for war. Ask the Japanese about that! They tried the path of war to solve their problems of limited land and resources, and look where it got them. They met utter disaster. So will today's warmongers...in time.

There is no magic answer that will make you totally safe against every scary scenario your mind can dream up just to score some point in an argument, but if your mind is busy dreaming up such scary scenarios...it might just be wasting its time. It could instead be having fun. The present, after all, is all you will ever have.

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 02:34 PM

This story makes me cry. A thousand blessing on Mrs. Leveller (and you, Leveller, for supporting her). Learning disabilities are the most difficult disabilities to manage. There are very few effective strategies that we have to offer, and most of those strategies require a lot of time and expense. Yoga can help a lot, though, and when the classes are free, it is wonderful.

I find it both curious and disturbing that certain groups repeatedly use moral, ethical, and religious grounds to attack programs that enable people who are vulnerable.

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: GUEST,Hokey Wole
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 02:15 PM

.. and errrrrmmm.. how effectively did Taoists flow harmoniously around invading Japanese armies..????

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 02:11 PM

I suppose that Jesus didn't yawn and stretch a bit when he woke up in the morning. That could be construed as yoga, which is, of course, as we now learn--unChristian!

I must warn my wife before she goes to her yoga class this afternoon. After all, she teaches Sunday school, and it just wouldn't do to have one of the Sunday school teachers practicing yoga!

I think I'll convert to Druidism. Trees aren't always trying to tell you what you can and can't do.

But then, the church we go to doesn't either. Other than a few basics like it's not nice to kill other people or steal stuff. Things like that.

And they'd really prefer that you don't sit there belching loudly during the sermon......

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 02:04 PM

Nature isn't like that. Nature quickly finds the harmonious path to the objective

Far out, LH. In nature it's all kill or be killed and everything killing everything else in one mass orgy of survival of the fittest. Darwinism ain't fun - far from Taoist principles of Wu-Wei, nature's way is crash, bang, cataclysm and life defined by death, disease, heart failure, stroke, cancer and shark attacks (see how smoothly that fecker is shaped to Wu-Wei it's way through the water just to tear something to shreads). All in all I'd say it makes Alien look like ET.

In Eastern philosophy The Buddha attains enlightenment by sitting peaceably beneath a tree (nice work if you can get it); in Western Philosophy Christ attains enlightenment through the tortured agonies of being nailed to one. The Cathars had it right: Nature is Hell and the only way is up.

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 02:02 PM

Beautiful, LH.

sandra, thanks for that. Love it!:-)

Reminds me of the bumper sticker, "God protect me from your followers."

Subject: RE: BS: Yoga is 'unchristian'
From: frogprince
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 02:00 PM

Okay, this will be drift from the specific Yoga issue, but:

A representative to our state house of reps lives in town here, and we see him about some times. Before a prior election, he asked me to "remember me at election time", and assured me that he was trying to do things like combat the teaching of evolution in the public schools. He did not say "encourage the teaching of creationism as an alternative". Shortly after that, a local group, I think avowedly pagan, put up a simple sign identifying their gathering place at one of their homes. He promised the community he would "get them out of there". I never heard the outcome of that.

Should you just consider it to be "finding another course to the sea" if someone dams up the stream bed you have been in, scoops you out of it in a bucket, and dumps you out somewhere?