BS: 45th Anniversary - Six Day War

Subject: BS: 45th Anniversary - Six Day War
From: robomatic
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 12:44 PM

Changed the face of the Middle East in the midst of the Cold War.

Never had so many Americans watched proceedings in the United Nations Security Council on their tellies.

I really enjoyed the performance given by Abba Eban. It was issued as a record album "Israel's Finest Hour"

So maybe this should go above the line...

Subject: RE: BS: 45th Anniversary - Six Day War
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 01:38 PM

A spectacular military triumph all right, but celebrating the 45th anniversary looks a tad obsessive? And how the Israelis persuaded the west that they were the underdogs in the region has always mystified me. These days of course it would take nuclear options for Iran to restore some kind of balance. We can but hope....

Subject: RE: BS: 45th Anniversary - Six Day War
From: robomatic
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 02:44 PM

sounds like a personal problem. no one but you has suggested to celebrate it. I realize that if you are hip deep in Irish internal politics that Israel has developed a symbology all its own which is not related to actual historical facts. But you might could familiarize yourself with some facts just as a change of pace.

Which is a valid reason to bring it up.

Subject: RE: BS: 45th Anniversary - Six Day War
From: Paul Burke
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 05:28 PM

How far is Israel from its own Krystallnacht?

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu recently described African migrants as "infiltrators" who had come here for economic reasons and who were a problem that had to be "solved".

Does he ever read history I wonder?

Subject: RE: BS: 45th Anniversary - Six Day War
From: robomatic
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 10:02 PM

That's exactly what they're saying in Israel. Fascinating issue. I remember talking to a German girl in the 80s about the problem modern Germany was having with its growing Turkish population. She mentioned seeing Graffitit: "Yesterday the Jews. Tomorrow the Turks!"

I wondered if the Germans ever missed the Jews.

So now I wonder if Israelis are thinking more of their Palestinian neighbors. They're a bunch of irascible cousins over there.


And of course there are tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of ethnically black Jews, the Falashas, and of ethnically Arab Jews, the Yemenites.

It's a cultural smorgasbord out there, and it's going to get more complicated not less.

which is why we already have the answer to that linked up question above. It is easy to posit the question of whether there will be an Israeli 'kristallnacht' but it won't happen. Millions of Palestinians attest to that with their existence.

Subject: RE: BS: 45th Anniversary - Six Day War
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 10:13 PM

You REALLY want to add this to 40 other threads about Israel, Palistine and Mid-East politics & tensions? It always ends in name calling and C&P quotes saying "Daddy, he hit me first!"

Don't say I didn't warn you...

Subject: RE: BS: 45th Anniversary - Six Day War
From: GUEST,999
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 11:47 PM

I'll quote that next time a "what is folk music?" or "what is traditional music?" thread is posted.

Subject: RE: BS: 45th Anniversary - Six Day War
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Jun 12 - 09:04 AM

how the Israelis persuaded the west that they were the underdogs in the region has always mystified me.

They were the under dogs miltarily then.
The Russian armed and trained Egyptian army and air force would have overwhelmed the Israelis.
Only the surprise of them attacking first saved them.

Subject: RE: BS: 45th Anniversary - Six Day War
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Jun 12 - 09:19 AM

It seems to be generally agreed these days that persons who have a history of being abused are more than likely to abuse others.

Seems, in the case of Israel, that the rule holds true for nations as well as individuals.

Subject: RE: BS: 45th Anniversary - Six Day War
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Jun 12 - 04:35 PM

"There is no emoticon for what I'm feeling!"
Comic Book Guy, The Simpsons

However you want to judge, Israel is a fact, the Six Day War is a fact, and it happened 45 years ago this week.

I created the thread as a 'marker' not necessary as a throw-down point. I'm quite willing to forego the usual blather and simply refer to the Wikipedia entries as a focal point of fact checking, fact disagreements, etc.

There has been plenty of intelligent and impassioned posting on 'how we interpret' or 'how we judge' what happened.

feel free to rest on your laurels. I know I do.

If you must register an opinion, how about a simple thumbs up or thumps down if such exists in the emoticon world.

Subject: RE: BS: 45th Anniversary - Six Day War
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 06 Jun 12 - 05:35 PM

Saved them? LOL

Subject: RE: BS: 45th Anniversary - Six Day War
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Jun 12 - 05:42 PM

Saved them yes.
You may LOL, but there would be no Israel today had the Arabs won.

Subject: RE: BS: 45th Anniversary - Six Day War
From: bobad
Date: 06 Jun 12 - 05:44 PM

Some people like the fact that they weren't "wiped off the map".

Subject: RE: BS: 45th Anniversary - Six Day War
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Jun 12 - 07:32 PM

I've been curious about the relationship between IRA sympathizers and Jewish Nationalist supporters (Zionists) in the 40s, during the time of Partition. I've been told that they made common cause in New York both with money for arms shipments and legal/ non-legal circumvention to get around the English attempt to limit Jewish immigration and armaments.

I'm not up on the facts/ details/ extent of how far sthis went, but the guy tellimg me about it, a Jewish New Yorker who would have been there in the perios sounded very authoritative.

The internet references I can find are that there has been a long anti-semitic bias on the part of Irish freedom organizations, but I'm from Boston wheich is U S Celtic central and I heard nothing laong those lines eever nor even in the Republic of Ireland during my sojourtn there. Quite the reverse. Maybe I've been living in a fool's paradise, but I sure haven't been alone there.

Subject: RE: BS: 45th Anniversary - Six Day War
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 06 Jun 12 - 08:10 PM

Ah, Keith means they were being saved from a war that they started....

By the way, I take nothing from the genius of the Israeli military operation, in the planning of which Sharon and Rabin played distinguished parts. (If Rabin had not been murdered, Israel might possibly have become a fairly rational state. Even Sharon might have steered a better course than the monstrous Netanyahu. By the time he was laid low Sharon was considerably more moderate than he was during the Sabra and Shatila atrocities for which he will forever be remembered.)

Subject: RE: BS: 45th Anniversary - Six Day War
From: michaelr
Date: 06 Jun 12 - 08:20 PM

Ah yes, who can forget the eye-conic Moshe Dayan? I was 12 anjd mightily impressed.

These days, not so much...

Subject: RE: BS: 45th Anniversary - Six Day War
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Jun 12 - 02:14 AM

they were being saved from a war that they started....
No Peter.
By themselves starting the war that was coming from the Arab states, they survived.

The Arab state radio stations made no secret that they were going to attack Israel.
They had deployed their forces on her border in readiness.
Israel, with no large standing army, had mobilised its reserves but could not keep them mobilised any longer or the country would cease to function.
That is all the Arabs were waiting for.

Subject: RE: BS: 45th Anniversary - Six Day War
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Jun 12 - 03:46 AM

Robomatic, this is about how the IRA aligned itself with the Nazis and antisemitism.

the IRA's main publication, became increasingly pro-Nazi in tone, even claiming active IRA involvement in the German bombing of British cities. But more chillingly it began to ape anti-Semitic arguments. Satisfaction was expressed that the 'cleansing fire' of the German armies was driving the Jews from Europe. British war minister Hore Belisha was described as a 'wealthy Jew' only interested in 'profits'. War News condemned the arrival in Ireland of 'so-called Jewish refugees', along with unspecified numbers of 'Albanian, Abyssinian, Mongolian [and] Tartars'. These new arrivals were not only supposedly putting Irish people out of work but also exploiting those that they employed. Belfast was said to be increasingly in the 'hands of international Jewry' because of this influx. 'The Jews', War News warned, were 'like the English, when they are strong they bully and rule.'http://www.historyireland.com/volumes/volume13/issue3/features/?id=113841