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BS: Digging and forming footers SUCKS!!!
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BS: Digging and forming footers SUCKS!!! |
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Subject: BS: Digging and forming footers SUCKS!!! From: Bobert Date: 14 Jun 12 - 04:40 PM This is the last stick building I'm doing... Yeah, I promised the P-Vine that I would build her a potting shed but... ...for gosh sakes, what a pain digging and forming up footers... Even with a tooth bar on the front bucket of the Kabota it's a lot of f'n shovel work and figuring grades, pounding metal rods to attach forms, riggin' this and riggin' that etc., etc... And... ...frankly, this part of the job SUCKS big time!!! B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Digging and forming footers SUCKS!!! From: Highlandman Date: 14 Jun 12 - 04:43 PM Yessir it do. Where are you digging? The last footers I dug were here in the solid red concrete (affectionately referred to as "clay") of upcountry South Carolina. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Digging and forming footers SUCKS!!! From: Bobert Date: 14 Jun 12 - 05:56 PM Right up the road, H-man, in Union Co, NC... Solid red concrete about describes it... B;~( |
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Subject: RE: BS: Digging and forming footers SUCKS!!! From: JohnInKansas Date: 14 Jun 12 - 06:16 PM I don't think I'd even think much about digging the usual footer trench without thinking really hard about renting a real trencher to do it with. Of course since you've got the kaboob and a bucket there's a certain uncertain satisfaction in doing the job with what you've got. Unless the shed is going to be pretty elaborate, I'd likely have just used a grader blade - or the bucket - to level and take off some surface and poured a 4 or 5 inch slab; but again, that depends a little on the extent of the project, the geology, the bugs and boogers common in your area, and on building codes (if any). (Our house is on a slab, and I can assert several disadvantages, hence the importance of John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Digging and forming footers SUCKS!!! From: gnu Date: 14 Jun 12 - 06:43 PM How deep is your frost, Bobert? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Digging and forming footers SUCKS!!! From: Rapparee Date: 14 Jun 12 - 07:10 PM Get a 12 inch or larger power auger (put it on a tractor's PTO). After you level the ground to about 4 inches below grade auger down about 30 inches along the edge -- how many holes depends on the size of the perimeter. Punch some holes in the middle if you want -- one in the center could become a dry well for spills. Put in the edge forms and pour. Stick some bolts in to attach the wall. Sure glad I'd hire something like that out now-a-days! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Digging and forming footers SUCKS!!! From: Bobert Date: 14 Jun 12 - 07:33 PM Frost??? Hey, it's semi-tropical here... Palms and banana trees grow here... But seriously, maybe an inch... I'm pouring 6 inches... The Kabota with that tooth bar will dig about a foot... Lifts the front wheels a foot or so off the ground to bust thru what H-man described as red concrete... It's more like a softish brick concrete but tooth bar goes to war with it... The hardest part is shoveling it out after the Kubota + tooth bar have had their way with it... Back aches tonight... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Digging and forming footers SUCKS!!! From: bobad Date: 14 Jun 12 - 08:00 PM Where I am you have to go down 4 1/2 feet for your footings - that's digging! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Digging and forming footers SUCKS!!! From: Bert Date: 14 Jun 12 - 08:05 PM If the ground is that hard, why do you need a footer. Here in Colorado Springs you don't a permit for a shed that doesn't have a foundation. We just bought a small shed with its own floor and put it up on railroad ties. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Digging and forming footers SUCKS!!! From: Bobert Date: 14 Jun 12 - 08:14 PM Well, bert... I need somethin' to nail my plate to... Footer > bottom plate > studs > top plate > rafters... At least that's the way we build in these parts??? 4 1/2 feet, B-bad??? No way!!! You live in Mars, 'er what??? B;~) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Digging and forming footers SUCKS!!! From: Beer Date: 14 Jun 12 - 08:26 PM Nail it to the ground then. I back Bobad up on his comment. I only live an hour away from him. Adrien |
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Subject: RE: BS: Digging and forming footers SUCKS!!! From: JohnInKansas Date: 14 Jun 12 - 08:41 PM Frost line in our area is generally about 3 feet down, so you have to trench that deep for water lines and such, but I don't know how deep the codes say foundations have to go. It may or may not be below the frost line. For sheds here, in most towns and in some counties, you can theoretically get by without a foundation but sheds have to be "fastened down." Some people just twist ground anchors in and run a couple of cables over the roof, but the neighbors usually end up complaining about the ugly factor; so the "easiest" (?) is to slab and screw. Putting something on railroad ties won't keep it off your neighbors' rooftops with some of our winds, so you'd still need the anchors. Reports are that some people even use hurricane clips in their (wood frame) sheds, but the sellers have other names for them, and tell the customers "they make construction quicker" without telling them about any other benefits. John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Digging and forming footers SUCKS!!! From: Bobert Date: 14 Jun 12 - 08:51 PM Nail to the ground??? That definitely ain't code anywhere except maybe Somalia... Gotta do it right... Hey, I build stuff right... Justa a pain... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Digging and forming footers SUCKS!!! From: Beer Date: 14 Jun 12 - 09:05 PM It sure can Bobert. Good luck to you. ad. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Digging and forming footers SUCKS!!! From: Gurney Date: 15 Jun 12 - 12:05 AM Where I used to live, the land was all spat out of a volcano, and when it splatted down (long, LONG ago) it had moulded itself to the rest of the scoria. Most untidy footings you ever saw, it pulled up in lumps. After they got a big enough digger. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Digging and forming footers SUCKS!!! From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 15 Jun 12 - 04:54 AM Here in UK the footings are inspected by a Buildings Inspector. If he isn't happy, you do them again! If he is, he okays the next stage and so on. Very strict. But it helps prevents future probs eg cracking and subsidence. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Digging and forming footers SUCKS!!! From: Sawzaw Date: 15 Jun 12 - 08:20 AM Here is how I do it |
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Subject: RE: BS: Digging and forming footers SUCKS!!! From: Bobert Date: 15 Jun 12 - 11:45 AM Yup... That's the way I do it, too... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Digging and forming footers SUCKS!!! From: Ebbie Date: 15 Jun 12 - 02:01 PM Whadda ya mean, digging footers? And how about headers? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Digging and forming footers SUCKS!!! From: gnu Date: 15 Jun 12 - 02:21 PM Bobert... what is the depth of the top of your footing? Those pics remind me of a story. I was resident engineer on an aircraft parking apron about 25 years ago. The contractor was a novice at heavy duty crete and drainage and such. The sub-surface drainage detail showed a cross-section of the trench. Round pipe, square outlines of inverse filter materials and fabrics. I arrived late in the morning on a Saturday and what I saw almost made me laugh (I didn't because it would have been rude). The green CE Tech in charge had devised a system of formwork to ACTUALLY install the filter as a square(s). I watched for about an hour... they laid 24' of 8" pipe. I spoke to the Tech aside and explained what I was gonna do. A short while later, I called for a halt to the work and said to the Tech, very loudly so everyone could hear me, "I appreciate that you wanna do the job perfectly but I wanna get back home for beer and BBQ before fucking dark. If I was you and the inspector wasn't here I'd chuck that fancy formwork, dig the trench a bit wider, use a bit more material and be at the beer store before five. Give me me a shovel." He asked if I was actually gonna get in trench. I said, "Fuck no! It's for smacking anyone that tells anyone what I just told you... NOT... to do. Now, let's get to work." 175' per hour. It takes a big dog to weigh a ton eh? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Digging and forming footers SUCKS!!! From: gnu Date: 15 Jun 12 - 09:38 PM What's with all the rebar? Isn't it cheaper to dig a bit further and not bother with rebar? Or is your soil laced with clay? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Digging and forming footers SUCKS!!! From: Bobert Date: 15 Jun 12 - 09:48 PM Well, my footers ain't but about about 10 inches deep and about 10 inches wide... There ain't gonna be much weight on them so that's plenty for a 12 ft X 12 ft potting shed... Got the second one done today and mixed and poured (9) 80 pound bags of Sacrete (concrete mix) and it's done... 2 more to go... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Digging and forming footers SUCKS!!! From: Bert Date: 15 Jun 12 - 10:05 PM ...10 inches deep and about 10 inches wide... That ain't much bigger than that railroad tie that you was puttin' me down for. Footers here have gotta be 36 inches deep. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Digging and forming footers SUCKS!!! From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 16 Jun 12 - 01:37 PM I had a company with power auger bore to 7 foot depth and put steel bars in the concrete footings before having the concrete poured for the base of my greenhouse. It was to be a magnum opus with all mod cons for my orchid culture. It all worked for a few years and then one end sank a couple of inches, throwing the ventilation machinery out of line and cracking a couple sections of glass. I had to give away my plants. Not I have a large storage shed filled with old pots and other gardening leftovers. Good luck! (Books on orchids for sale) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Digging and forming footers SUCKS!!! From: gnu Date: 16 Jun 12 - 06:23 PM Well, Bobert... I thought you had to anchor it for wind. If not, and there's no frost, screw crete footers for a 12X12 shed. 9 2X2' holes 6" deep... 3/4" washed stone over filter fabric to 2" over grade... 9 4X8X16" concrete blocks on the flat. Bob's yer uncle. Easier than crete and far easier to maintain in future. Now, all that depends on yer floor beams/joists but ya just adjust it to suit. Using crete footers seems like overkill to me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Digging and forming footers SUCKS!!! From: gnu Date: 16 Jun 12 - 06:53 PM Q... any time you need a building to function in such a manner, ya gotta use a footing. Here, it's not a requirement (gray area, really) and many additions to houses use Sono-Tube footings (as you described, more or less). I have been called in many times to assess damage to such structures from differential settlement (what happened to your structure). In all cases, it was the young engineer or tech that signed the design drawings that paid the price... for taking a small fee from a shifty contractor. Simple pier footings are just "risky", ESPECIALLY in frost country as the opposite of settlement can happen. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Digging and forming footers SUCKS!!! From: Bobert Date: 16 Jun 12 - 07:02 PM I have always tended to over-build, gn-ze, verses under building... This is a substantial shed with 2 very heavy glass double patio style hinged doors at both end and two 6 ft X 5 ft windows on the south side... BTW, got all the doors and windows at a salvage yard but they are/were new... Come visit sometime and you'll see why I built it this way... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Digging and forming footers SUCKS!!! From: gnu Date: 16 Jun 12 - 09:10 PM Now I understand... it ain't a shed. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Digging and forming footers SUCKS!!! From: Bobert Date: 16 Jun 12 - 09:23 PM No, it's a small house... Heavy stuff... B~ |
