BS: Drones Over America

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Sawzaw
Date: 25 Jun 12 - 09:55 PM

"when the cops come sniffing around looking for that pot plant you got growing in with the tomatoes then you sneak up with yours and blow them the heck up"

Now Bobert advocates killing cops. A Cop hater.

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Jun 12 - 08:50 PM

BTW, I'm looking forward to drone wars... Yup, everyone is gonna have their own drones and when the cops come sniffing around looking for that pot plant you got growing in with the tomatoes then you sneak up with yours and blow them the heck up...

Oh, this is going to be fun...

Maybe Walmart will sell anti-drone weapons that lock in on yer neighbors drone and blow it the heck up...

The NRA is gonna love this, too...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Jun 12 - 08:30 PM

Agree, gn-ze...

Reading wacko bloggers who are paid BIG $$$ to take the truth and twist it into unrecognizable pretzels is a waste of everyone's time... No one reads 'um because when you see them they all look alike and say nothing ot little that is truthful...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: gnu
Date: 25 Jun 12 - 08:18 PM

I don't know what the hell yer all talkin about because when I see a post a mile long I don't read it. Especially when it's from a poster I simply ignore based on their name. Seriously. Come on eh? Ya got somethin ta say? SAY IT. Never mind the thousand word cut and paste crap. You could at least reference it and cite it with a link and give us a clue what you mean to infer. I haven't the time to read all that.

BTW, that's a general comment.

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Jun 12 - 07:56 PM

Well, Obama can't win...

If he talks about the drones strikes the rithties hammer him and...

if he doesn't talk about them the righties hammer him...

Will ya'll make up yer minds... That is, if you have minds...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Songwronger
Date: 25 Jun 12 - 07:03 PM

The Executive Branch is now trying to deny public access to drone strike information.

June 21, 2012 ~

...In a motion filed just before midnight last night, the federal government asked for FOIA requests regarding drone killings by the ACLU and the New York Times to be dismissed....

...The administration merely has to state that the target is a terrorist and it doesn't matter whether they are an American citizen or not, as we saw in the case of American-born Anwar al-Awlaki and his son, who were both killed last year.

In December, Obama administration lawyers reaffirmed their backing for state sponsored assassination, claiming that "U.S. citizens are legitimate military targets" and do not have the right to any legal protection against being marked for summary execution....

http://12160.info/group/attack-of-the-drones/forum/topics/obama-moves-to-conceal-drone-death-figures?xg_source=activity

Here's an oldie. Aerosol knockout gas:

The so-called Advanced Riot Control Agent Device, or ARCAD discussed in the documents is similar to the opiate gas that proved deadly when used in a hostage situation in a Moscow theater in 2002, said Hammond. Most of the 129 hostage deaths in the incident were blamed on the gas.

Hammond received the documents, with titles such as Anti-Personnel Calmative Agents and Anti-Personnel Chemical Immobilizers, after initiating a Freedom of Information Act request in 2001. According to a statement on the group's site, the calmative agent was developed at the Army's Aberdeen Proving Ground in Maryland.

"The weapons were designed to knock out groups of people, in battle and in other situations, presumably including 'rioting' civilians," the statement says.

http://www.rense.com/general54/knockout.htm

The true purpose of having 30,000 drones above America is for control of population. Spying sure, for taxation and the theft of private property, yes, but when the crunch comes, civilian populations will be rendered helpless from above. And we'd better HOPE all they do is spray us with knockout gas. The way it's looking now, there's something much more sinister afoot. The government made public the plans for weaponizing Bird Flu. The article below makes some interesting points:

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/nightmarescenario.php

Recently the corporate media has been filled with stories about how scientists took the bird flu (which bears many similarities to the "Spanish" flu) and through a series of just 12 steps, converted it into a form easily transmissible by air! This makes the new bug, which we shall call Captain Trips in an homage to Stephen King, a slate-wiper for all humanity. Oddly enough, the press gave a great deal of coverage to the possibility that the scientists who created Captain Trips might publish their step-by-step directions, thereby handing to "Al Qaeda" (nudge nudge wink wink) the recipe to wipe mankind off of the face of Earth.

Some important items were left unsaid, such as who was paying these scientists to create such a horror, why the government did not exercise its legal authority to classify any materials deemed dangerous to the national security, and most important, why was the corporate media blatantly advertising the availability of the recipe for Captain Trips for all to see?

The US Government classifies all kinds of documents. Even college term papers that touch on military subjects can be and routinely are classified. Yet this supposedly highly dangerous recipe for converting Spanish/Bird flu was indeed published, which means the United States Government wanted it published, and wanted it reported in the media.

Which means this is a propaganda operation.

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 22 Jun 12 - 01:24 AM

OOPs posted this on the wrong thread...ummm...here we are...

All those in favor of drones because it takes out the enemies, raise your hands.

All those in favor of napalm because it takes out the enemies, raise your hands.

All in favor of another way, raise your......

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Jun 12 - 11:46 PM

Promise??

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Jun 12 - 11:05 PM

Absolutely right, Jack. I gotta stop doing that.

Bloody waste of time.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 21 Jun 12 - 10:40 PM

>>>Don, Good Lord, you didn't have to go into all the details of your neighbor...when I put in parenthesis "Hmm, now I'm starting to understand your 'neighborhood'..interesting..
(Just couldn't let that one go by)."<<

Your first mistake was reading a GooFUSS post.

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Jun 12 - 10:04 PM

Don, Good Lord, you didn't have to go into all the details of your neighbor...when I put in parenthesis "Hmm, now I'm starting to understand your 'neighborhood'..interesting..
(Just couldn't let that one go by)."

The,'Just couldn't let that one go by' part was ..or should have been.... an indication, that I was only working off your line...as in you were being the 'straight man'.
OF COURSE I don't even know her, or your neighborhood or how ugly you are.....but at least we got a clue as to how stupid!!

(ONLY A JOKE, DON!!!!)
Sometimes a little levity in the room.......
Don, There's something in the next part, that we DID talk about, in seriousness, but I didn't think you understood the whole impact of it, BUT, at least you broached it with me, without being....ummm...well, you know....



Guest, 999,..I dug your post, and it's really cool, to read from somebody, who is not deceived by the partisan political show biz act.
That being said, I DO believe our nation is in deep trouble.
On a post with (and I can't remember which thread), I mentioned that the thing to watch, in relation to the economy, was NOT the stock market, nor unemployment figures, but the derivatives market. Today, Moodys downgraded 4 huge banks...BoA, Goldman Sachs, Suisse Bank, and Citi....not to mention, Royal Bank of Scotland, Lloyds Banking Group and Barclays are all in line for a downgrade by ratings agency Moody's over fears the euro zone crisis threatens their stability.

Why this is relevant, to this thread, is I believe that America is about to be thrown under the bus, (remember that missing trillion?), and the remnant will be up for grabs, once the chaos subsides, and the 'new rules' put in place. The 'corporates' vs the Marxists...though they can easily work together...as long as the perception of the people can be held under control. What we are seeing, is a 'readying' for that. Both the higher ups of the 'right' and 'left', I believe, sense that their 'opportunity' to tip the jump ball to their side, will come probably around, or after the election..no matter who wins. I think, should Obama win, we MIGHT have a little longer window, not because he represents anything noble, but because his first term, was in conjunction with the same guys, as the 'right'...but somewhere, along the line, he 'strayed' from the original 'plan'.......In any event, between the last four administrations, this country has been financially fatally wounded. The ONLY hope, is that people seriously look to loving their fellow man, neighbors and community, and NOT allow 'political persuasions' to overcome their sense of unity.....that bullshit has to not gain any more traction, within the populace. Financial sector, and Governmental sector has screwed things up so bad...even the minds of the people...but it will be the people, working together who have ANY chance of putting back together, and LEARNING form how we got there, to never let it happen again!!...(Even though that won't last THAT long). Controlling each other's wills, morals, integrity, for personal gains must be fruitless....and that starts with each person, settling that issue in their own beings, before 'inflicting' other people with ideologies, political, social, religious, etc etc. That being said, people need the room to touch the spiritual within them...and after the mess that is to come, that will NOT be so far fetched, as it must sound now.

Bruce, you have my 'tin foil' hat off to you!!...
(at least I'm not wearing it)

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Jun 12 - 09:21 PM

Looks like 1982 is gettin' its due...

This isn't as much a discussion about drones v. no drones... Like John in K says, they have been around for a while... A long while...

It comes down how they are used...

Drones don't spy on people.... People spy on people... LOL...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: gnu
Date: 21 Jun 12 - 09:04 PM

"...so public comment is still possible and lots of people will have to agree on any rules that ultimately do appear."

Maybe.

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 21 Jun 12 - 08:25 PM

Even the few people here who are relatively "informed" appear to have little real knowledge of the extent and history of drone use. (They flew over my house a couple of times a week in 1964, and they may still be "testing" the same ones there.)

The primary use of drones has generally been for "surveillance" but for military surveillance it's common to use very high altitudes to make it less obvious what's being watched. Improvements in photographic technologies now permit reading the spots on the dice from around 10,000 feet agl, but so far as I've heard about it that technology isn't anything that any local, or even state, jurisdiction could obtain even if they could pay for it, and "resolving" the details takes a week of arcane processing after each ten minutes of snapping pictures. People to do that kind of processing are exceedingly rare. That technology would be useless to civilian agencies, and even if they could us it, it would be a very expensive way of busting a street corner crap shoot.

Civilian law enforcement people are permitted to view "anything visible from areas of generally public access," and nothing prevents the cop on the beat from looking over a fence. The drones of kinds likely to be most useful for law enforcement simply allow looking over lots of fences fairly quickly - when you can tolerate missing a lot of the details.

Drones for surveillance certainly should be of no concern to London, since they already have remote TV cameras pointed at nearly every square inch of all "public areas" with direct feeds to the cop shop; and although we have somewhat different attitudes toward "privacy" there seem to have been few complaints about "being watched" there.

The proliferation of "weaponry" in police forces is of some concern to some of us, with the LA Police now being possibly better equipped with heavy weapons than some of our military combat units; but so far they've been restrained a lot better in the use of those kinds of "machinery" than for simple night sticks and jack-boots (which are still something of a problem, not just in LA?).

Drones are just one more tool that has obvious potential uses that could be of benefit in legitimate and legal law enforcement, and for those uses they might reduce costs and risk to personnel. As for any other tool, there are also potential ways in which they could be misused, but there is nothing (except in sensationalist press rants) to suggest very persuasively that legitimate uses should not be considered and evaluated.

Most of the recent flap is the result of the FAA being ordered to "write rules for civilian drone flights." Writing the rules requires (when done by rational writers) an evaluation of the potential uses that might need to be regulated, but mention of possible at that point isn't even a real suggestion that a particular use will be permitted.

No rules have as yet been published in anything approaching final form, so public comment is still possible and lots of people will have to agree on any rules that ultimately do appear. Informed concern is, as always, appropriate; but hand-wringing, wailing (we don't even have a good wall for it) and predictions of massive apocalypse are a little over blown - for now.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Jun 12 - 05:33 PM

And resuming our regular programming, during my stint as a radio announcer, I worked for a year for AAA (American Automobile Association) broadcasting morning and evening traffic reports over Seattle's KIRO radio. By listening to four city police radios and two state patrol radios, I tried to put together a report of good routes and places to avoid for commuters between 6:00 and 9:00 a.m. and 4:00 and 6:00 p.m.—a report every twelve minutes.

This was a bitch of a job, and I had to do a lot of guess-work based on listening in on the police talking to each other, and I didn't know for sure if what I was telling people bore any relationship to what was going on out there in traffic in the real world or not. But people kept telling me I was doing a good job.

KOMO radio had their "Eye in the Sky" reports from a plane flying overhead. Fred Garlatz, at the controls of his small plane could SEE what was going on, but since there was only one of him, he couldn't get an ongoing picture of the whole scene, whereas I could at least make a good guess from the information I was getting.

I keep thinking of what a boon a small fleet of drones would be when it comes to such things as traffic observation and control.

I don't see what should be so bloody expensive about this. For years, people have been playing with radio controlled model planes as a hobby. Just a matter of scale, and equipping the unmanned planes with a controllable camera. And, of course, a couple of operators who know what they were doing.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Jun 12 - 05:28 PM

GoofuS:   "Hmm, now I'm starting to understand your 'neighborhood'..interesting.."

No you're not. The woman I mentioned in my above post is not typical of the people in this quite upscale neighborhood. I live in an older section of Seattle, quite close to downtown, but it's anything but a slum. This section of Capital Hill, a few blocks south of forty-eight acre Volunteer Park (looking east, toward Lake Washington; the reservoir is in the foreground and the large building just beyond the reservoir is the Asian Art Museum). This is an area where the wealthy lumber barons lived in Seattle's earlier days and many of the houses are large, quite luxurious mansions. Barbara and I live in (are shareholders in) a cooperative apartment building, which was built in 1910, has been well-maintained, and is on the Historic Building Registry.

James, our neighbor across the hall (wife and two small children) works in a bookstore, our upstairs neighbor is a singer and actor who is currently acting in a series of Shakespearean plays at one of Seattle's many theaters (he's had parts in a couple of network television dramas), and his wife works as a docent at the Seattle Art Museum and illustrates children's books. Another neighbor upstairs is a professional photographer, another is a singer-songwriter who has released a CD. Another neighbor is also a singer-songwriter, and between singing gigs, Tamara puts in a stint at a local college radio station playing folk music. There is a doctor who lives in the building (don't know his specialty, if any) and a number of others work across the lake at Microsoft.

Two business districts within a couple of blocks, restaurants, supermarkets, drugstores, all the conveniences.

The somewhat disturbed woman I mentioned used to work as a procedures writer for the City of Seattle, as did my wife for a short time, so that's how I know her. She lives in a large, modern building a block to our south. Subsidized housing. She is essentially incapable of managing her finances or remembering to keep appointments. Barbara calls her on the phone several times a week to remind her of thing she needs to do.

And you were able to tell all of this about my neighborhood from what I posted about this woman, GoofuS? Congratulations! Now go knit yourself a Superman cape!

Back to our regular broadcast.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 21 Jun 12 - 05:01 PM

I like the idea of a drone based tv series. Lets call it CSI Mayberry? Or how about Law and Order - Small Town Sheriff's Department?

But seriously, getting back to my original point. A law officer legally has access to a lot of things that a truck driver doesn't. There is nothing special or more inherently dangerous about police drones. Facebook telephone and Email hacking are far more powerful in affairs of the heart.

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Jun 12 - 01:23 PM

Here is where things are going to get very sticky... There are over 15,000 police departments in the US... That opens up the potential for 15,000 different spy networks... Heck, we have some purdy redneck sheriffs who hate the US government and don't mind telling anyone who will listen...

Enter the FAA... The "F" in FFA stands for "federal"... See where I am going???

Back to Barney Fife... Lets say that Barney Fife's girlfriend leaves him for Billy Bob... Now Billy Bob ain't a cop... He drives a truck and therefore doesn't have use of drones... But Barney Fife does and is plenty steamed at Billy Bob for taking his lady friend away from him...

Hmmmmm???

I can see a new sit-com in this... The possibilities are limitless...

LOL...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: GUEST,999
Date: 21 Jun 12 - 12:51 PM

GfS: Thank you for those very kind remarks.

That last post of yours was well-written and I agree with most of it. The one area we take differing views is the attribution of motive to posters here. Most are Americans, and they love their country as do you. Any informed people are aware that banks, the manufacturing complex and multinationals have have gained tremendous influence in Washington. There is an old rule with money. You owe the banks 10,000 and they own you. Owe the bank 100,000,000 and you own them.

People who dislike Obama will make much of his use of Executive Privilege to stop the release of documents to do with the Mexican gun fiasco--if the deaths of so many people may be called a fiasco--but I will not. There likely are security concerns that make that a good decision. But that is small potatoes when compared with the over-all state of security that can easily be used against citizens with no need for a warrant. Example: in Canada, one of our prime ministers said, "The government has no business in the bedrooms of Canadian people" (words to that effect). As the law is to do with surveillance, it is necessary that Congress get a better handle on it all than was provided by the Supreme Court. In fairness, the Supremes may only rule on the case brought before it, even when they see the pitfalls of the way the petition for redress of a wrong is worded poorly.

The la-di-da of the American people really puzzles me. I have seen people--very intelligent people on this forum--shut down statements of opinion with 'wear your tinfoil hat' or 'another conspiracy theory'. Shit. You have to be mildly brainwashed in the first place to think like that. Noticing when big money is influencing political decisions is NOT conspiracy theory. It's fucking fact!But some attitudes suggest that hope triumphs over experience so often, and I think it's doing so in this case.

Beyond all that stuff, I say this: I truly hope that you and I have our heads where the sun don't shine on these issues. I hope we're damned fools and that people laugh at us with gusto when we are proved to be wrong. (They always were strange and different.) Unfortunately, I don't see that ending in the cards.

Regardless, it is important that we all decide how best to counter government until such time as there is no recourse but rebellion or civil war. To do otherwise is nothing short of stupid and nothing less than treason. This is the type of infighting that has screwed so many resistance movements. Thermopylae, Masada, Warsaw Ghetto are examples of what happens when factions cannot agree how best to fight an enemy. We have to keep in mind that although we are pretty certain we're correct, we could be wrong. And lest we forget, we could be right.

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 21 Jun 12 - 12:25 PM

"Better stay away from Copperhead Road."

This could be interpreted as a threat to local, state and federal law enforcement by the computers which sift through domestic internet traffic as authorized by the patriot act.

The only question is whether the DHS has included a "Steve Earle metaphor filter" among its Al Gore rhythms.

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 21 Jun 12 - 12:15 PM

Wrongsonger is fear mongering so is Sawzaw, they are trying to play upon people's fears and ignorance of drones to the people to dislike and fear the President.

You michaelr are aiding and abetting by piling your own, unfounded as I see it, distaste of the technology into the mix. If you don't like Presidents policies, that is fair. But blaming the tools for the way they are used is just silly and extrapolating that use to here to say "You are next" as Sawzaw and Songwronger have done is nefarious.

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Jun 12 - 12:05 PM

Not to worry... I've grown weed going back to 1970 and learned a trick or two along the way...

Better stay away from Copperhead Road...

LOL...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Jun 12 - 11:59 AM

Well, you be careful, then....I don't dislike blues players THAT much!!
(wink)

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Jun 12 - 11:47 AM

I've grew pot in veggie gardens, GfinS, back when I lived in Wes Ginny where the DEA is very, very busy... Also grown it in the mountain and around fields...

The number one thing that get people caught are paths... That's right... Paths... The second biggest way to get caught is for the infra-red to pick up the heat of the fertilizer... In a veggie garden they expect to find higher heat because people do use a lot of poo in their veggie gardens... I use chicken, myself (3-2-3) because it's balanced and chicken poo will grow a tomato as well as it will grow pot...

Now I ain't growing since I moved to NC... Still thinkin' about it, though but not for this year...

Now back to other uses of drones that ain't all that terrible...

I do understand that the FAA has a lot to say about drones... And will probably have a lot more to say in the future... Especially if one takes down a Cessna...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Jun 12 - 11:44 AM

Thanks, BB..I was typing that post, and went blank in regards to what I was thinking when I posted, "there's this 'deal'..."..and I racked my brain to remember the correct name. (It's not a term I use often)..but I knew it was like a spectrum analyzer, but for light emissions....(now if it would have been 'sound' I wouldn't have forgotten so easy).
Anyway, the point was, to tell Bobert, that his 'advice' could get someone in trouble, unwittingly. The same goes for indoor full spectrum grow lights, when they leak out of an opening. Perhaps, you could expand on that, to anyone interested...it's not a subject that I'm in a situation that I'd have to deal with, not growing anything of the sort. My concerns pretty much lie in keeping sound from getting out of the studio, for those late night sessions, while Mama is sleepin'. Though, as it is now, it doesn't keep her up.....at least she knows where I am!..and the music, is USUALLY not disturbing, due to the nature of it...but then there's those l-o-o-ong practice/composing sessions....I imagine those could get redundant and frustrating...to others.

Anyway, Regards Bruce!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Sawzaw
Date: 21 Jun 12 - 11:35 AM

Transparency and Open Government
White House

Memorandum for the Heads of Executive Departments and Agencies

SUBJECT:      Transparency and Open Government

My Administration is committed to creating an unprecedented level of openness in Government. We will work together to ensure the public trust and establish a system of transparency, public participation, and collaboration. Openness will strengthen our democracy and promote efficiency and effectiveness in Government.

Government should be transparent. Transparency promotes accountability and provides information for citizens about what their Government is doing. Information maintained by the Federal Government is a national asset. My Administration will take appropriate action, consistent with law and policy, to disclose information rapidly in forms that the public can readily find and use. Executive departments and agencies should harness new technologies to put information about their operations and decisions online and readily available to the public. Executive departments and agencies should also solicit public feedback to identify information of greatest use to the public.....

WH rejects requests for 'targeted killing' papers
Associated Press

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Obama administration has rejected requests from The New York Times and the American Civil Liberties Union seeking information about its "targeted killing" program against suspected terrorists, saying the release of the requested documents would harm national security.

Under the Freedom of Information Act, the Times and the ACLU sought records regarding the legal justifications for the alleged U.S. government killing of U.S. citizens and others associated with al-Qaida and other terrorist groups.

In a court document filed late Wednesday in New York in response to an ACLU lawsuit, the Justice Department said that "even to describe the numbers and details of most of these documents would reveal information that could damage the government's counterterrorism efforts."

The administration said the information requested is "highly classified," even though details of such operations have been leaked to the media.

"For example, whether or not the United States government conducted the particular operations that led to the deaths of Anwar al-Awlaki and the other individuals named in the FOIA requests remains classified," the government wrote. The U.S.-born al-Awlaki, an al-Qaida leader, was killed in a U.S. drone strike in Yemen in September.

"Likewise, whether or not the CIA has the authority to be, or is in fact, directly involved in targeted lethal operations remains classified," the government wrote.

In response to the government filing, ACLU Deputy Legal Director Jameel Jaffer said Thursday: "The notion that the CIA's targeted killing program is still a secret is beyond absurd. Senior officials have discussed it, both on the record and off."

The Justice Department, however, said, "None of those statements or reports constitutes an official disclosure that could vitiate agencies' ability to safeguard the classified and other statutorily protected information at issue here."

The administration acknowledged public concern about U.S. use of targeted killings, and said it has tried to "set forth for the American people the legal analysis and process involved in the determination whether to use lethal force." Those efforts have included speeches by a number of U.S. officials, including Attorney General Eric Holder.

But it maintained that the requested records would reveal "whether or not the U.S. government possesses specific intelligence information about particular individuals. Yet, Congress has made the judgment in the CIA Act and the National Security Act that information concerning such intelligence sources and methods should be exempt from public disclosure."

The ACLU's Jaffer said, "The public is entitled to know more about the legal authority the administration is claiming and the way that the administration is using it."

"We continue to have profound concerns with the power the administration is claiming and with the proposition that the president should be permitted to exercise this power without oversight by the courts," Jaffer said.

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: beardedbruce
Date: 21 Jun 12 - 11:25 AM

"deal that picks up a different light emission, given off by the plants, that distinguishes them, uniquel"

Look under "hyperspectral imaging"




I was on the NEMO (ground station design) and EO-1 (data manager) programs.

And there has been over a decade of research since then....

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Jun 12 - 10:07 AM

Bruce, You are correct.. The American Government DOES have the money..OUR money...so do their partners, the Banks, and the corporations, and so do all of the other people who have fleeced the American public, with the crap they 'sell' to us, under the guise of needed programs to solve problems that THEY created. What they do, is just funnel the need for those programs, through whichever political party caters to the vocal crowd of supporters. Illusionary 'Patriotic' programs to the 'right', disguised as 'humanitarian' and progressive to the left....but the real benefactors are the middle man, and the bureaucracy, that keeps expanding, and operating as inefficient as anyone needs to, to not even produce ANYTHING!
The partisan hacks don't get it..because though they may 'see the needs' for whatever their conscience tells them, most of the time they are being played upon..to 'feel' those needs..to solve problems that the previous set of 'problems' created in the first place!..and because the government can relax a law, here and there, to promote THEIR agenda...which of course, is for the profiteering of their business/owners, the corrupt financial sector.
Gosh, I hope that wasn't too hard to understand.
It's gotten to the point, under the veil of illusion and secrecy, that now the financial sector OWNS our government, and tells them what to implement...and the effects are being witnessed, by both sides, even if the guy you voted for is 'doing it to you'...and you can't really explain it away.....BUT, it's your 'party', so, whatever they tell you MUST be right!...............
........................until you get together with your FRIENDS, and compare notes:
The musicians on Mudcat....and though we may disagree, getting to a common denominator, as to 'Why' and 'What', Thank you for being there, so it ALL gets laid out.

Regards,

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Stu
Date: 21 Jun 12 - 05:16 AM

"So what is it good for?"

Sticking missiles into wedding parties and blowing the limbs off kids? The good news is, if they do blow the limbs off your kids you can get compensation, just like they do in Pakistan.

Y'all better get yer heads down over there!

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: GUEST,999
Date: 21 Jun 12 - 05:02 AM

Police drones have some life-saving ability, that's for sure. Infrared can locate missing people who have wandered off; report on fires and help firefighters determine the scope of what they face. They have many applications that could do much good. The opposite is also true. At present, Congress has not delineated the extent to which drones may be used inside the USA. Until that happens, the American people are talking through their collective arse when they offer assurances that they 'will not be used for illegal purposes' (contrary to the 'spirit' of the Fourth Amendment).

Military drones are not as inexpensive as some people have suggested. An article from Huff says that if one includes the infrastructure required to keep drones flying, they are 2 to 6 times more expensive than what they are intended to replace.

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: GUEST,999
Date: 21 Jun 12 - 12:48 AM

"THE DRONES IN USE IN THIS COUNTRY ARE SIMPLY CHEAPER REPLACEMENTS FOR OTHER, MORE EXPENSIVE TYPES OF LAW ENFORCEMENT AIRCRAFT!!!!!!!"

Maybe so, but the problem is they ain't replacing a damned thing. They are being added to the existing law enforcement aircraft presently in use.

Who has the money? Why the American tax payer has the money. The very existence of drones attests to that!

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Jun 12 - 12:44 AM

Don Firth: "For some strange reason I am reminded of an acquaintance who lives about a block away from my wife and I, and whom we have known for some decades."

Hmm, now I'm starting to understand your 'neighborhood'..interesting..
(Just couldn't let that one go by).

Bobert: "Yup... Put 'um in the veggie garden... The drones don't know pot from tomatoes..."

No, Bobert. When they are looking for those type of plant, they use a deal that picks up a different light emission, given off by the plants, that distinguishes them, uniquely....just thought I'd tell ya'....what are friends for?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Jun 12 - 12:01 AM

For some strange reason I am reminded of an acquaintance who lives about a block away from my wife and I, and whom we have known for some decades.

She is all tooted up about drones—and she started on this about a year ago. "They"—are spying on her! She knows it! She has seen small drones hovering outside her window. And she KNOWS! THEY are ARE spying on her!

She spent some time in a mental hospital a few years back. Multiple personality disorder. Presumably she is currently "integrated," but from time to time and on certain subjects she is very paranoid. She can't offer any explanation as to who is spying on her, or why. But she's certain. She has SEEN these tiny "drones" hovering outside her window.

Well, during some seasons, Barbara and I see small objects hovering outside our windows. Actually, I've observed them closely. There is a garden outside our window. And a garden outside this woman's window.

Hummingbirds.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: michaelr
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 11:55 PM

Thanks, Bobert, I appreciate that. I, too, consider us friends.

JtS, not so much. I regret that my POV makes you angry, but there it is. And there is this: Are you really so naive as to believe the authorities don't do anything that "the constitution and case law does not allow"? Who needs to "grow up" here?

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 11:05 PM

Songwronger started this thread for 2 apparent reasons.

1. To crap on the President. Which is the reason that he starts most of his threads.

2. To display his ignorance of technology. A drone can't do anything a helicopter can't do and we have had those in our skies since the 50's

I guess it is more fashionable to transfer one's hysterical fantastical anti-government paranoia from "Black Helicopters" to "Drones" But I, for one am sick to death of it.

"
Being unmanned, a drone cannot be considered a cheaper replacement for, say, a rescue helicopter. So what is it good for? Surveillance, of course, for starters. We have been told, ever since Bush and his henchmen began taking away our liberties and civil rights in the aftermath of 9-11, that "if you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about." That point of view is also despicable to me."

You are really pissing me off. Do you know what the police use helicopters for? NO? Then look it the fuck up before whining about it!!!

Yes it is for surveillance. The chase suspects with them when the suspects run!!!

Local law enforcement is not going to use them to randomly spy on people. Just as they don't use helicopters or unmarked patrol cars to do the same, because the constitution and case law does not allow it.

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 10:34 PM

No, michaelr, I was not referring to you...

I get involved with a lot of folks every night at the Washington Post discussions so I hear the propaganda that is out there and I am addressing it... None of what I say is personalized... It is all about policies... If you felt you got caught in one of my rants, I am so very, very sorry...

You are my friend... I don't do friendly fire as a general rule... It happens now and then and when it does I am remorseful...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: michaelr
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 10:23 PM

Well, Bobert, if you weren't referring to me when you said "these mentally ill hypocrites" then you don'te owe me an apology. But it sure seems you were calling someone names.

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: artbrooks
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 09:29 PM

Oh sure - shoot straight up with your shotgun/rifle. Sure hope there isn't some kid standing where the shot/bullet comes back down. Happened 10 yards from me once - 15-year-old girl DOA.

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 08:45 PM

Yup... Put 'um in the veggie garden... The drones don't know pot from tomatoes... Hide your Playboy magazines, too, er might find one hanging out every day over your house with some pervert at the controls...

Oh, and ya' gotta quit having sex in the backyard 'er you might end up on YouTube, courtesy of Barney Fife...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: bobad
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 08:35 PM

Gonna have to hide the pot plants.

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 08:32 PM

I heard a one hour show on these things on NPR, wronger... The ones that the cops are using aren't flown all that "HIGH"... Okay, maybe you might not bring one down with a shotgun but Rap, and maybe me (I earned a sharpshooters ribbon back when my eyes were good) could take one down with a 30/30 and a decent scope...

But I agree... The entire idea of drones being used in fishing expeditions is definitely is "unlawful search"...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Songwronger
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 08:25 PM

I have a 12-gauge shotgun. I'm going to buy some goose shot for it so I can reach up HIGH to bring these things down. The Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution reaffirms our right to be free of unreasonable searches (eye in the sky crap), and the Second Amendment reaffirms our right to own firearms. If I don't use the 2nd to protect the 4th, then I deserve to be a slave.

Oh, and I'll vote for the anti-war candidate in the upcoming presidential election.

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 08:12 PM

I didn't do any name calling, michaelr... None...

But hey... We go back and are friends so if it takes an apology for something that I didn't do then...

...I am sorry...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: michaelr
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 07:56 PM

Seems we have two different topics mixed up here. To wit:

1. Drones being used abroad to combat whomever the government says is a terrorist.

So, if no American lives are in danger, if it's just them brown-skinned foreigners dying, that makes it OK. Safer and cheaper. Sorry, but that point of view is despicable to me.

2. Drones being used inside the US for unknown purposes.

Being unmanned, a drone cannot be considered a cheaper replacement for, say, a rescue helicopter. So what is it good for? Surveillance, of course, for starters. We have been told, ever since Bush and his henchmen began taking away our liberties and civil rights in the aftermath of 9-11, that "if you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about." That point of view is also despicable to me.

This is how I feel about the subject regardless of which party is in power or who is President.

Still waiting for an apology for the name-calling by Bobert and Jack.

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: gnu
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 06:44 PM

Drones for monitoring seems far fetched. Fixed cams not so much. Employed in England from what I have read. Just the $ seem to say no.

However, as Ebbie has said, when used for specific purposes, they could be useful and save $. Arming them seems disturbing.

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 06:31 PM

Jack the Sailor: "Deployed randomly? Who has money to deploy them randomly? Not any government in this country. That is for sure."

RIGHT JACK!!..Boy, you are coming ALIVE!!...Well, there is a trillion dollars unaccounted for, that I keep bringing up.....interesting to find out, how else they're planning on spending it, and for 'why' for 'whom'....certainly NOT for jobs, union or otherwise..not to feed the hungry caused by this mess...or 'health care'.....hmm....now what REALLY could be up their sleeves?.....and who is the behind it, to benefit who, or what?....YOU??...ME???...a Renaissance in musical culture?....I..D-o-o-o-n't think so.....

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: bobad
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 05:58 PM

Predator drones are being used for patrolling the borders with Mexico and Canada.

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 05:50 PM

Subsidized to buzz around in the sky randomly looking for what? They can't do anything a helicopter can't do and they buzz around here all the time. Legally law enforcement using drones are subject to the same privacy and warrant requirements as any other cops.

Drones add nothing new. They are just, in principle at least, cheaper and safer.

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 05:18 PM

I'm waitin' for Barney Fife to get one an' buzz around lookin' for Earnest T when Earnest sees the drone first and takes it out with his 12 guage pump shotgun....

You know that this stuff is gonna happen...

Going to get very interesting...

Me??? I think that unarmed drones being used for traffic control or following known criminals running from crime scenes is acceptable... Fishin' expeditions??? No, no, no... Unconstitutional...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Drones Over America
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 05:08 PM

What if their use by states or cities were subsidized?