Battle of the Boyne: Have a Glorious twelfth!!!!!

Subject: BS: Battle of the Boyne
From: kendall
Date: 12 Jul 12 - 09:11 AM

I woke up with the song, The Old Orange Flute in my head and it reminded me that it was on this date in 1690 that King Billy crossed the river Boyne looking for a fight. He found one.

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There were two threads on the Battle of the Boyne today, so I combined them. -Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Battle of the Boyne
From: Rapparee
Date: 12 Jul 12 - 09:34 AM

If it weren't for religious prejudice it wouldn't have happened.

Subject: Folklore: Have a Glorious twelfth!!!!!!!
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 12 Jul 12 - 01:28 PM

Some songs for the day
http://mysite.verizon.net/cbladey/osong/ooooo.html
Songs for the twelfth of july!


just in case you are clueless....
http://mysite.verizon.net/cbladey/orange.html
Whats it about the twelfth?

Never neglect a holiday~

Conrad

Subject: RE: Folklore: Have a Glorious twelfth!!!!!!!
From: radriano
Date: 12 Jul 12 - 02:34 PM

This is just a pet peeve of mind.

You only need ONE exclamation point. The rest mean nothing.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Have a Glorious twelfth!!!!!!!
From: Will Fly
Date: 12 Jul 12 - 03:21 PM

And this is just a pet peeve of mine:

Why in God's name should any of us wish to celebrate a battle in which many were killed and which helped to fuel the intransigence embedded in the political, social and religious landscape of Ireland?

And what relevance is any of it to you personally?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Have a Glorious twelfth!!!!!!!
From: GUEST,sturgeon
Date: 12 Jul 12 - 03:40 PM

It wasn't even the key battle in the war either! The Prods never get anything right.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Have a Glorious twelfth!!!!!!!
From: Megan L
Date: 12 Jul 12 - 03:47 PM

I do wish people would stop throwing verbal blankets over people not all protestants think the same way and neither do all catholics.

Start building bridges stop building walls

Subject: RE: Battle of the Boyne: Have a Glorious twelfth!!!!!
From: Joe Offer
Date: 12 Jul 12 - 04:23 PM

The Office of Public Works of Ireland has an interesting Website for the battlefield, which is now a national park. The Website links to a secondary education pack, which has interesting information on the battle.

The Battle of the Boyne

The Battle of the Boyne was fought on the 1st of July 1690 [Julian calendar] and was a very important battle in Irish, British and European history. The two Kings who were present on the battlefield were James II of England and his nephew William III of England (William of Orange). Although not present on the day a third king Louis XIV of France was also involved. The battle was a power struggle between these three monarchs, the victor would hold the balance of power in Europe. The armies of the rival kings, which numbered between them more than 60,000 men, were by far the largest forces ever assembled on a Irish or British battlefield. The Williamite side comprised of 36,000 troops made up of 12 nationalities, among them, Dutch, Danes, Germans, French Huguenots, English, Scottish, Irish, Swiss, Italians, Norwegians and Poles. The Jacobites numbered 24,000 men of five nationalities, Irish, English, Scottish, French, and German. There were three issues at stake at the battle: 1: The Throne of England 2: French Dominance of Europe 3: Power in Ireland On the eve of the battle, William held his Council of War in the ruins of Old Mellifont Abbey. He listened to the advice of his Generals, Duke Schomberg and Count Solms. The battle plans were then drawn up, a flanking manoeuvre towards Slane and a full frontal attack at Oldbridge. So in the early hours of the 1st of July the Battle of the Boyne began. The flanking manoeuvre drew two thirds of James' army towards Rossnaree leaving only one third at Oldbridge against the might of the Williamite army. The Williamite army crossed the river at low tide onto the south bank of the Boyne at the little village of Oldbridge which was to be the core battle site. The Jacobite and Williamite armies engaged in battle for approximately 12 hours and 1500 men lost their lives, 1000 Jacobites approx. and 500 Williamites approx. James retreated from the battlefield via Duleek, crossing the Nanny river, and returned to Dublin. From there he went to Cork and set sail for France, never to set foot in Ireland or England again. William, the victor, made his way to Dublin where he celebrated his victory in St. Patrick's Cathedral. The two armies remained in Ireland and a number of other battles were fought including the battle of Aughrim, the siege of Athlone and two sieges of Limerick. The Williamite wars in Ireland ended with the signing of the Treaty of Limerick on 3rd of October 1691.

Main Characters of the Battle James II of England James II inherited the throne of England from his brother Charles II. He converted to Catholicism and he showed favour to his Catholic subjects. Some of the English Protestant nobility objected to James' policies and were unhappy with his rule. He believed in the absolute right of kings and had little time for parliament. William of Orange William was the Stadholder of the Dutch Republic and Prince of Orange. He was James' nephew and also his son-in-law. William was at war with King Louis XIV of France over territory. He was invited to take the throne of England by some of the English nobility. He accepted and arrived in England in November of 1688 with 15,000 troops. He and his wife Mary were crowned King and Queen of England in April of 1689. England was then part of the Grand Alliance against France. Louis XIV King Louis XIV of France was James' cousin and the most powerful monarch in Europe. He, like James believed in the absolute power of kings. He was expanding the boundaries of France and claiming territory beyond its borders including part of the Dutch Republic. He was an ally of James at the Battle of the Boyne. The Duke of Schomberg Duke Schomberg was second in command of William's army. He had a distinguished career in several European armies before joining William's army. William became impatient with him as he felt the campaign in Ireland was moving too slowly. William came to Ireland himself in June 1690 and took command of his army in person. On the morning of the battle Schomberg rallied the Huguenots over the Boyne and was killed on the south side of the river. He is buried in St. Patrick's Cathedral in Dublin. Count Solms Count Solms was born in Utrect in 1638. He was a kinsman and advisor to William. He served in the Dutch army as lieutenant general of the infantry. After the Battle of the Boyne Solms remained with William and returned to England with him after the first siege of Limerick. Richard Talbot, Earl of Tyrconnell Richard Talbot was appointed Lord Deputy of Ireland by King James. He was in command of the right wing of the Jacobite army at Oldbridge on the day of the battle. The Comte de Lauzun The Comte de Lauzun was the commander of the French forces in Ireland. He was advisor to King James at the Battle of the Boyne. He over-reacted to William's flanking manoeuvre and issued the orders which led to the majority of the Jacobite forces moving to Rossnaree, away from the main site of the battle.

Subject: RE: Battle of the Boyne: Have a Glorious twelfth!!!!!
From: kendall
Date: 12 Jul 12 - 05:05 PM

Will, I see it as remembering a piece of history, not celebrating all that carnage.

Subject: RE: Battle of the Boyne: Have a Glorious twelfth!!!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jul 12 - 06:22 PM

What could be celebrated: The heroic resistance of the ordinary people of Londonderry, who wouldn't let the soldiers surrender to save their own skins, at the expense of the civilians.

What shouldn't be celebrated: the colonial oppression of Irish people by British colonialism, using the fears of poor descendants of the Derry Prentice Boys as a battering ram.

Subject: RE: Battle of the Boyne: Have a Glorious twelfth!!!!!
From: framus
Date: 12 Jul 12 - 06:52 PM

We Prods prefer remembered to celebrated.
Surely the "ordinary people" ARE the civilians, and the British are still, to an extent, persecuting both sides over here when it suits them.
Lundy was probably very nice to his Mammy and Daddy.
Haven't heard as much as one 6 key flute all day!

Subject: RE: Battle of the Boyne: Have a Glorious twelfth!!!!!
From: framus
Date: 12 Jul 12 - 06:55 PM

And thanks, Joe, for pointing out the date "anomaly". Sorry Kendall!

Subject: RE: Battle of the Boyne: Have a Glorious twelfth!!!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jul 12 - 09:58 PM

The "Glorious 12th", as far as I can recall, is the term used for the start of the grouse shooting season.
Nothing glorious about this sort of crap!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-18823292

Subject: RE: Battle of the Boyne: Have a Glorious twelfth!!!!!
From: Charmion
Date: 13 Jul 12 - 09:02 AM

I grew up in an Orange village in eastern Ontario.

I dislike suburbia and the effects of urban sprawl in the Ottawa Valley, but I don't regret for a minute the disappearance of the Orange Lodge -- part of the old rural culture of this area -- from the Ottawa region.

Subject: RE: Battle of the Boyne: Have a Glorious twelfth!!!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jul 12 - 10:37 AM

I still think that all organized religions should be banned. They have caused more deaths than all the wars put together.
Thank god I'm an atheist.