BS: 1/2 of voters think Obama may be Muslim

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think Obama may be Muslim
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 04:59 PM

"I'm more inclined to hope that some benign providence might prevent them from breeding!"

LOLOLOL

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think Obama may be Muslim
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 04:39 PM

One of my favorite novels when I was in my early teens was Sir Walter Scott's Ivanhoe. In 1952 Hollywood came out with a lavish movie based on the book, starring Robert Taylor as Ivanhoe, a breathtakingly beautiful twenty-year-old Elizabeth Taylor as Rebecca, and Joan Fontaine as Rowena, with George Sanders as the heavy, Brian de Bois-Guilbert.

Early in the movie, a group of Norman nights seek lodging in the home of Cedric the Saxon (Ivanhoe's father). Cedric is not happy about their presence, but courtesy demanded he provide sanctuary to wayfarers on a stormy knight, so he offered them his hospitality nevertheless.

As Cedric's household, along with the Normans, were sitting at the long table and eating, a herald announced that one Isaac of York and his daughter Rebecca were outside requesting sanctuary for the night.

Bois-Guilbert objected to their being allowed in, saying "Isaac of York is a Jew!" and further objected to their presence among a group of Christian knights recently returned from the Crusades to free the Holy Land from the infidels.

Wamba, Cedric's jester spoke up. "Sir knight, for every Jew you show me who is not a Christian, I can show you a Christian who is not a Christian!"

The Normans didn't think it was funny.

I think there's a moral in there somewhere.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think Obama may be Muslim
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 04:32 PM

Sorry, Don - no chance at all.

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think Obama may be Muslim
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 04:16 PM

""Lets just hope they don't find their way to the polls, Bill......""

I'm more inclined to hope that some benign providence might prevent them from breeding!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think Obama may be Muslim
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 01:40 PM

Lets just hope they don't find their way to the polls, Bill......

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think Obama may be Muslim
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 12:20 PM

Article 2, Section 1, Clause 8 of the Constitution states:

"Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

It says NOWHERE that a bible must be used.

Theodore Roosevelt didn't use a bible


long article on oaths, affirmations and presidents

(Note- it is not even required to take an 'oath'... even though Obama did...twice....and using Lincoln's bible the first time.)


-------------------------------

And that 17%? There are millions who simply WANT to believe any negative information about Obama... and polls are designed to find them. They sure found songwronger....

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think Obama may be Muslim
From: Charley Noble
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 11:59 AM

This reminds me of when I was watching the movie Ben Hur as a youngster and the lions were chasing and attacking Christians in the Coliseum. One lady behind me was heard to say, "Oh, that poor little lion hasn't got a Christian!"

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think Obama may be Muslim
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 11:37 AM

Its not simple ignorance, Lighter. Its very complicated and involved ignorance, carefully nurtured and tended and supplemented until it can burst forth as full-blown criminal stupidity.

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think Obama may be Muslim
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 10:18 AM

Technically, artbrooks, you're correct, but statistical "meaningfulness" isn't the same as sociopolitical (and psychological) "meaningfulness." I believe that including the troubling 31% with the scary 17% reveals the "abysmal ignorance" yet more clearly.

At best, about one-third are clueless about an issue that's a lot less complicated and subject to clever misrepresentation than, say, global warming.

Those who think they "know" he's a Muslim may be afflicted more by hatred, paranoia, and gullible acceptance than by simple ignorance. If so, that would make the overall voter profile even more dismaying.

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think Obama may be Muslim
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 09:46 AM

Just 17% - Oh thank God!

Only 52 million and change fuckwits out there out of a population of 308 mil.

I was worried there for a moment.....

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think Obama may be Muslim
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 09:37 AM

The scary part of this story is the "B word": Believe...

Seems that Tin Foil Nation is getting bigger and bigger... These people would rather believe lies that they know are lies then to believe truths that they know are true...

This reality disconnect is one for future anthropologists, sociologists and psychologists to sort out because it really makes no sense at all???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think Obama may be Muslim
From: artbrooks
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 09:29 AM

Based on the results of the poll, it is as accurate to say that 81% of potential voters (50% + 31%) think that Mr. Obama is or may be a Christian as it is to say that 48% (17% + 31&) think that he is or may be Muslim. The only really meaningful numbers ares 50% vs. 17%.

Of course, since he and his family attend a Christian church, he says he is a Christian and he swore his oath on a Christian Bible, even the 17% figures demonstrates abysmal ignorance.

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think Obama may be Muslim
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 08:14 AM

Damn it! Many of our founding fathers were not Christians either. Why don't they just bring back the inquisition? The rack, the Guillotine?

Ignorance breeds fear and fear breeds hatred.

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think Obama may be Muslim
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 08:01 PM

"With regard to Obama, the poll found that misperceptions about his faith persist.

About half of registered voters correctly say Obama is a Christian. Seventeen percent misidentify him as a Muslim, 3 percent say he adheres to some other faith and 31 percent say they are unsure."

That is quoted from an article that speaks about the poll. The misunderstanding? Look at the last phrase of the quoted stuff: the 31 percent are not saying they don't know whether Obama is a Muslim; they are saying they have no idea what his religious faith is. The only people who misidentify him as Muslim are the 17%.

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think Obama may be Muslim
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 07:30 PM

Really, Joe, the headline is shocking because I was shocked by what I could deduce from the story.

I sourced it with links to reputable sites, I answered questions, I explained my reasoning. I've avoided sarcasm and I haven't called names. If I've reasoned erroneously or provided incorrect information, please specify.

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think Obama may be Muslim
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 06:57 PM

It's not what gets said in this place. It's who says it. That determines its popularity and its reception. It's kinda like that everywhere else too.

- Chongo

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think Obama may be Muslim
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 06:24 PM

Agreed, Don- but the real problem is that the U. S. of A. is filled with many MORE fuckwits- and not just your amateur Mudcat fuckwits, but olympic-class, professional fuckwits.

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think Obama may be Muslim
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 05:22 PM

Spaw has a remarkable knack for cutting to the very core of the matter.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think Obama may be Muslim
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 05:17 PM

Amen, Spaw.

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think Obama may be Muslim
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 05:08 PM

MUDCAT CAFE FILLED WITH FUCKWITS

............data in my previous post.


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think Obama may be Muslim
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 04:44 PM

Lighter, "tabloid headlines" are still misinformation, and misinformation feeds much of the hatred and prejudice in our world today. I think there's a virtue in always speaking the truth, not twisting it to manipulate people.
Posting a tabloid headline is manipulative and deceptive.

Not good. Mudcat is a classy joint, not a Murdoch publication.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think Obama may be Muslim
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 04:30 PM

Let's not jump to reassuring conclusions, SRS.

From the Huffington Post:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/26/obama-muslim_n_1706522.html

As Yahoo News indicated, the survey is by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, a division of the Pew Research Center, a well-known and well-established polling organization cited by both Republicans and Democrats.

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think Obama may be Muslim
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 04:08 PM

Lighter, you picked up a story from Yahoo news. They're about as reliable as FOX on many things - did there happen to be citations in that story, or was it an opinion piece? I thought not.

I liked a little epigram making the rounds lately, called Hitchens' Razor - "What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

It seems we can comfortably discard this statistic as nonsense.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think Obama may be Muslim
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 03:37 PM

Any war leader can be deemed a mass murderer by them that don't agree with the aims or methods of the war he is leadin'. He becomes a mass murderer not by virtue of killin' anyone with his own hand, but by bein' the commander in whose authority the killin' was done.

This was the logic used against a buncha top government people at Nuremberg, and they was convicted on that basis. The same logic could be used against Obama and Bush...providin' there was a military power out there with the strength to defeat the US military and arrest its top commanders and put 'em on trial for war crimes.

The fact that there is not such a military power out there at present means Obama don't have to worry about the accusation. If there was, though, then he'd hafta worry about it just like George Bush would hafta worry about it.

- Chongo

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think Obama may be Muslim
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 03:27 PM

"Obama's a proven mass-murderer."

Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof.

Which Right-Wing web site did you get that from, Songwronger, or did you just make it up--along with the rest of your propaganda?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think Obama may be Muslim
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 11:54 AM

Well, if it don't matter what at least 17% (one in six) of voters think, it don't matter.

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think Obama may be Muslim
From: kendall
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 11:42 AM

That could apply to 90% of our posts.

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think Obama may be Muslim
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 10:59 AM

Anyone starting such a dumbass thread is a fuckwit. Anyone reading this dumbass thread including me is a fuckwit. Posting a reply also means you're a fuckwit too, just like me. Reading and posting is sorta' like fucwit squared whereas starting, reading, and repeated posting is fuckwit to the 10th power.


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think Obama may be Muslim
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 10:25 AM

Joe, the tabloid headline was meant to get attention, but I believe my previous post shows that it's literally true: 48%, according to the poll, believe he is or *may be* a Muslim.

17% are sure he is. That is a big percentage of voters who are convinced of an outright lie that has been exposed by the media many, many times. As Kendall says, even John McCain and other Republicans have said so.

If we were talking about a randomly chosen person, and 31% said they "didn't know," it would be reasonable to assume that they'd never thought about it and didn't care and had no way of knowing.

But in this case, Obama's religion has, insanely, been an issue for four years.

But, as I said, the bigger issue is the gullibility or obliviousness of a large portion of the voting public on a simple, ascertainable fact. What's more, if he *is* a Muslim, that would mean not only is he a baldfaced liar, but so are McCain, Romney, and the Democratic and Republican leadership who've also said he's not a Muslim.

Had 9/11 not occurred, false claims about Obama's religion might just be laughable. But it did. And the religion claim usually accompanies claims that he was born in Kenya, is not a citizen, and is thus not legally qualified to be President.

If that many registered voters can't accept am easy-to-remember, established fact that's been in the news for four years, what do they know about more complicated issues - like the economy and foreign policy?

And 40% still don't know that Romney's a Mormon, another issue for   the past four years.

An "informed electorate" should be better informed.

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think Obama may be Muslim
From: kendall
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 07:20 AM

It is so easy to swallow any lie about someone we don't like, it saves us the trouble of thinking. "Romney is a moron". No, he is not a moron. He has focused all his energy into making money and never developed any social skills.
Bush is an idiot. No, he is not an idiot, his IQ is above average. He was smart enough to start two wars to ensure a second term. (See what I mean) I'd like to believe that myself.

"Stereotypes afford us the luxury of not thinking; but in time they will extract the PRICE of our not thinking." (Jean Harris, author of "Stranger in two worlds")

Ronald Reagan was believed, by some, to be the anti christ because he had three names and they all added up to 666.Fools will believe anything about a person they don't like, as long as it's bad.

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think Obama may be Muslim
From: kendall
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 07:12 AM

There was a story on the web that Obama took his oath on a Koran. LIE!

Now, anyone who knows anything about Islam knows that any Muslim that becomes a Christian, or even enters a church is automatically under a death sentence
John McCain declared in public that Obama is not a Muslim.

Songwronger, we will have two choices. If you don't like either, then what? Pissing and moaning will change nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think Obama may be Muslim
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 07:00 AM

I would imagine that 90% of British voters wouldn't be too sure of the religion of their Member of Parliament. And couldn't care less.

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think O. may be Muslim
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 12:37 AM

Well, Lighter, if you were a copy editor and I owned the newspaper, I'd fire you for using a headline like "1/2 of voters think O. may be Muslim." It's misleading, maybe even dishonest.

If the data is correct, then it would be correct to say that 17 percent of voters think Obama is Muslim. That's a defendable headline.

I think I like the 31 percent who don't know Obama's religion. Why should it make a difference? I'm proud of them, that they haven't bothered to inquire.


I gotta say that it pisses me off when people say Obama is a Muslim, especially because it forces me into a difficult position. I don't think his religion or his race or his sexual orientation should make a difference, so why should it make a difference to me if people give false information about those things?

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think O. may be Muslim
From: Songwronger
Date: 26 Jul 12 - 11:15 PM

No, Romney should be disqualified. He's as morally unfit as Obama.

Obama's a proven mass-murderer. He should be arrested. Religion has nothing to do with it. Put him in a cell with George W. Bush.

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think O. may be Muslim
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Jul 12 - 10:25 PM

"He couldn't swear on a Bible if he were Muslim."

Of course he could. There are as many liars in Islam as there are in Christianity. This whole deal ain't about religion, it's about money and more money. You are buttering that bread on two sides--and that's ok, but it makes the bread slippery and difficult to hold onto. If the proposition as put forth is that he's Muslim, and you think he's a liar, then he's fulla shit. If you think he's a Christian and a liar, then he's fulla shit. The guy can't win, so where is the problem?

Let me try to nail it in one: Obama is president of the USA and you don't like it, so you would prefer an idiot like Romney to a man who may or may not be whatever religion? Keriste, find out if he's circumcised. From there we can rule out (or not) Islam and Judaism.

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think O. may be Muslim
From: Songwronger
Date: 26 Jul 12 - 10:02 PM

So what proof is there that Obama's a Christian? He didn't swear his presidential oath of office on a Bible. Remember how he and John Roberts went through that amateurish shuck and jive "flubbing" the oath? Go look for the video on the internet. Legal brainiacs Obama and Roberts both KNEW the flubbed oath would not be binding, but they didn't go back and do it properly. So Obama never took his oath of office. The controlled press reported that he did later, in private, but that's what you would expect a subservient press to do.

At any rate, that was the beginning of speculation that Obama wasn't Christian. He couldn't swear on a Bible if he were Muslim.

And that poll says "voters CORRECTLY say Obama is a Christian," and "Seventeen percent MISIDENTIFY him as a Muslim." The pollsters pre-judge for you. Crap polling.

Obama's definitely not a Christian, but he might be Muslim. Personally I think he's amoral beyond the point of any religion. He's a beast. He lost his humanity long ago. Maybe all that crack burned it out of him. He's an animal that watches snuff films of children he kills with drone bombs. He's even sub-animal.

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think O. may be Muslim
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 26 Jul 12 - 08:27 PM

I wrote a detailed reply, Wesley, but I see it hasn't gone through.

Maybe I can simplify it further. 17% think Obama is a Muslim. Period.

31% say they "don't know." But realistically few of those can be thinking, "I don't know, but I *do* know that he is *not* a Muslim."

So unless they're ruling it out completely, they're open to the possibility that he *may be* a Muslim. Thus the 48% figure, which admittedly may be a little too high for reasons I'm too tired to write out again. But not way too high.

But the real point isn't precisely how many people think O is or may be a M. The point is how incredibly uninformed roughly half of registered voters really are. Especially since O was being raked over the coals four years ago, repeatedly, for going to the wrong Christian church for too many years. That should have at least proved he was a Christian.

And how about the 40% who don't know Romney is a Mormon? Where have *they* been?

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think O. may be Muslim
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 26 Jul 12 - 08:26 PM

""And how many Jews have even been nominated for national office in the history of the nation?""

Or for a Golf, or a Country Club?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think O. may be Muslim
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 26 Jul 12 - 08:24 PM

""That's 48%. And only 60% know that Romney's a Mormon, which should tell you how much attention they're paying.""

More importantly what percentage know Romney is a MORON?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think O. may be Muslim
From: gnu
Date: 26 Jul 12 - 08:21 PM

Idaho? They would call Idaho?

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think O. may be Muslim
From: Wesley S
Date: 26 Jul 12 - 07:25 PM

I think you're playing pretty fast and loose with the numbers. When I read "and 31 percent say they are unsure" that means to me that they are unsure what religion Obama belongs to. Not that he might be a Muslim. Those are two different things.

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think O. may be Muslim
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Jul 12 - 07:22 PM

However, it matters where they accessed those 1500 voters. Makes a BIG difference whether they are from Alabama or Alaska, Mississippi or Michigan, California or Carolina, Dakota or Delaware, Idaho or Indiana...

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think O. may be Muslim
From: kendall
Date: 26 Jul 12 - 07:20 PM

When I ran for the state legislature, I lost. My brother asked why I lost and the best I could do was, "Half the voters didn't know me, but, the other half did."

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think O. may be Muslim
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 26 Jul 12 - 06:15 PM

Statisticians use something call a "stratified random sample."

How they create one is too complicated to describe here. However, the math and procedures are so well established that reputable polling organizations can often predict the winner of a state in a presidential election even if only a small percentage of the votes have been counted.

They only have to interview about 1500 people.

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think O. may be Muslim
From: SINSULL
Date: 26 Jul 12 - 06:08 PM

"Half of registered voters"? They asked all registered voters? Who asked? Whom did they ask? Where? When? How? and how many?

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think O. may be Muslim
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Jul 12 - 05:50 PM

Let me see if I can clarify a point for some of our friends overseas or up north:

When you say, "you Americans," let me point out that a substantial number of Americans don't care if Obama is a Christian, a Muslim, or doesn't go to church at all. There ARE, however, SOME Americans who would not vote for someone who is not a member of their particular denomination, for example, say, a Southern Baptist who would not vote for a Methodist or a Lutheran.

And there is a substantial percentage of Americans who don't give a hoot if Obama—or any other candidate—is black, white, or purple with yellow polka-dots. They want to know what he thinks, what he's for, what he's against, and what he is going to do about it.

Unfortunately, there are some who care very much. But the same prejudices prevail all over the world, they are not unique to Americans.

I just wanted to make that clear.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think O. may be Muslim
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Jul 12 - 05:35 PM

So long as he's not a Scientologist...

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think O. may be Muslim
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 26 Jul 12 - 04:46 PM

Yeah, you're right. I was thinking of Alf Landon. Smith ran in '28.

But he did lose.

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think O. may be Muslim
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 26 Jul 12 - 04:43 PM

I'm not really a GUEST. I'm cookieless. Check my Mudcat record.

Subject: RE: BS: 1/2 of voters think O. may be Muslim
From: beeliner
Date: 26 Jul 12 - 04:43 PM

Al Smith lost by an huge landslide, but that may have been because he was running against FDR

I'd check my history book on that one if I were you.

I seem to remember that his opponent was that vacuum cleaner guy.