BS: selling America

Subject: BS: selling America
From: kendall
Date: 26 Jul 12 - 04:34 PM

Today I went to my local Ace Hardware store to buy hacksaw blades. They have a variety of blades from China, at $2.29 for 2.
There were others made in America for $4.29 for two. I bought the ones made in America.
I own three motor vehicles, two Chevrolets and a Ford. Are we going to wake up in time to save us from being second to China?

Subject: RE: BS: selling America
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 26 Jul 12 - 04:47 PM

Same problem here in UK kendall. Market flooded with cheap Chinese goods. They're sending massive quantities of containers on ships, loaded with everything we like to buy, at prices no-one here can compete with. You have to admire their acumen. BUT the quality is often not nearly so good. And the Customs investigators and Trading Standards frequently discover basic rules are not adhered to. For instance children's toys which don't conform to safety rules; cheap and illegal copies of designer clothes etc. And I imagine their poor workers are paid a pittance and work in terrible conditions. I try to but British if I can.

Subject: RE: BS: selling America
From: GUEST,(left handed guitar)
Date: 26 Jul 12 - 04:54 PM

I bought one vegetable peeler after another, and they broke or malfunctioned constantly. Finally got one at Zabars, not made in America, but made in Switzerland- works elegantly and have had it for years now. Couldn't find any similar housewares made in USA, tho. Alas.

I have been very wary of the Chinese label, as most things I've bought made in China are junk.

And like you I mourn the passing of the US making things!!! We DID make wonderful products, with pride and longetivity in their workmanship, not JUST attention the bottom line.

Subject: RE: BS: selling America
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 26 Jul 12 - 04:57 PM

iPhones are made in China. To a US design. Guess which Apple Inc subcontracted the work to them?

Subject: RE: BS: selling America
From: kendall
Date: 26 Jul 12 - 05:03 PM

I read labels on everything, and I avoid anything from China or Japan. Their continuing slaughter of whales is appalling. Scientific research, sure, and the left over meat is worth $50.00 a pound.
If it's made in Canada or the UK I'll buy it without a second thought.

Subject: RE: BS: selling America
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Jul 12 - 05:18 PM

The grapevine from Beyond has it that when Steve Jobs passed over, he learned that there was indeed such a thing as reincarnation. And Karma.

He is now an eight-year-old Chinese lad working on an assembly line in a factory in China.

Assembling iPads.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: selling America
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 26 Jul 12 - 05:23 PM

Another worrying trend is the widespread 'investment' by the Chinese in many Afircan countries. They set up factories promising many benefits to the indigenous people. But the dosh goes straight into the pockets of the corrupt few, the benefits never materialise, and the workers are exploited dreadfully. Working hours and conditions are appalling and the Chinese seem to have taken over whole communities for their own ends. Not good. That's another reason I avoid their goods.

Subject: RE: BS: selling America
From: kendall
Date: 26 Jul 12 - 07:16 PM

I expected more interest in this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: selling America
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Jul 12 - 07:20 PM

Vote Democrat then...

The Repubs are all about busting American industry and it's workers...

Goes back to Ronnie Raygun...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: selling America
From: gnu
Date: 26 Jul 12 - 08:32 PM

Well... the US decided to delay the Keystone Pipeline long enough that the Chinese are about to buy Nexen. So, you might buy Canadian oil from the Chinese in the not-so-distant future... unless the Chinese decide to use it or sell it elsewhere.

Yes, I know it was delayed because of environmental reviews required by a re-routing but fer gosh sakes eh???

Where is Pierre when ya need him?

Subject: RE: BS: selling America
From: Songwronger
Date: 26 Jul 12 - 11:55 PM

Both national parties are participating in the selling out of America.

I needed a multimeter for electrical work. Looked at the Chinese crap sold through Radio Shack, seemed all the other options were Chinese too. Then I remembered a brand called Fluke. NATO uses them. Made in America, lifetime warranty. I found a used one on eBay for 40 bucks. Sells new for 150-250. Never thought I'd own one but now I do. Got it a couple of days ago. Looks brand new, a beautiful tool. A reminder, too, of how things have gone to hell.

Subject: RE: BS: selling America
From: kendall
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 07:25 AM

GNU, 1000 miles of pipeline through rivers, earthquake zones and the nation's breadbasket is not to be jumped into.
How does Canada plan to get their oil to China?

Classic case of NIMBY. "Not in my backyard"

Subject: RE: BS: selling America
From: gnu
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 06:47 AM

Ahhh... actually, the pipeline WILL be in our backyard. From AB thru BC to the coast to tankers to China and wherever else, like,say, west coast US ports. Make yer cheques out in Yen (Yens?).

Subject: RE: BS: selling America
From: GUEST,Kendall
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 08:07 AM

What we really need is to get off oil altogether

I remember when the Defense dept. announced that they were going to test Cruise missiles over Maine. We raised hell, with good reason.

If that pipeline breaks in Canada's food producing areas you can alyays buy corn and wheat from us.

Subject: RE: BS: selling America
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 09:43 AM

Market flooded with cheap Chinese goods.

Be sure to send a big "Thank You!" to WalMart & the Walton family - good "Christians"[sic] that they are.....

Subject: RE: BS: selling America
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 10:02 AM

Keystone...

Now here is the worst deal the US has ever considered... The US is not guaranteed one gallon of oil from it yet risks the water supply for 2/3s of its population???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: selling America
From: gnu
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 08:53 PM

"The US is not guaranteed one gallon of oil from it..." I didn't know that. I only took notice when Nexen was up for sale to the Chinese.

Subject: RE: BS: selling America
From: Elmore
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 09:33 PM

Had Chinese food tonight. It was good. No Nexen, though.

Subject: RE: BS: selling America
From: gnu
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 10:23 PM

Here's an article BURIED in the "Job Market" section of my local newspaper today...

U.S. Senator warns China on trade in review of oil deal


Schumer says China must agree to resolve complex trade issues

REUTERS

WASHINGTON - Senator Charles Schumer said yesterday that the United States should use a bid by China's state-run CNOOC for Canadian oil company Nexen Inc as a chance to take China to task for long-standing trade and investment issues.

Schumer, who has made criticism of China's economic policies a hallmark of his career, laid out a powerful political warning that many U.S. lawmakers expect China to open its doors to reciprocal investments, even as he made it clear that he does not object to CNOOC's $15.1 billion bid on its merits.

In a letter to Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner, Schumer suggested the United States should withhold its blessing for the deal unless China addresses complex disputes over government procurement, foreign investment reviews and intellectual property rights.

The Obama administration gets to weigh in on the U.S. portion of the deal because Nexen has about 10 per cent of its assets in the U.S.

Gulf of Mexico, and U.S. law requires a formal national security review when a foreign company buys energy and other sensitive assets.

'It is rare that we have so much leverage to exert upon China,' said Schumer, the Senate's No. 3 Democrat, who has argued that China fixes the value of its currency too low, creating unfair trading conditions.

Schumer, of New York, was among the most vocal critics in Congress of a proposed 2005 merger between CNOOC and the oil company Unocal, which was withdrawn under pressure.

His statements have been the strongest criticism thus far of the CNOOC-Nexen deal, but overall the deal has not yet produced a reaction in Washington anywhere near the Unocal controversy.

Yesterday, a federal court froze assets of traders the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission said illegally reaped more than $13 million in Singapore and Hong Kong accounts trading on inside information, buying up Nexen shares ahead of CNOOC's announcement.

The Canadian government will review the bid, and Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper has said there should be no assumptions about whether it will receive approval.

But Schumer's request to intervene in a deal involving a Canadian company caught many off-guard.

Canada's Foreign Minister John Baird side-stepped questions yesterday about Schumer's statements, saying his government would work to negotiate lower trade barriers in China 'independently' from its decision on the takeover.

'Decisions about the Canadian economy, about our relationship - our economic relationship with China - will be made in Ottawa and not in Washington or New York,' Baird told reporters in Ottawa.

The provincial government of Alberta, home to Nexen and its oil sands operations, is also watching the development closely, officials said.

CNOOC has already informed the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States (CFIUS), chaired by Geithner, that it will submit a for mal filing for review.

That process involves an initial 30-day review, during which the Director of National Intelligence does a detailed analysis that goes to key cabinet members, said Benjamin Powell, a partner at law fir m WilmerHale.

Because China's government controls CNOOC, U.S. law requires an additional 45 days of investigation, said Powell, former general counsel to the Office of the Director of National Intelligence.

The study focuses on 'what you more traditionally consider as national security concerns' in contrast to Canada's more broad 'net benefit' standard, which examines the economic impacts of foreign investments, Powell told Reuters.

It's unclear whether the CFIUS review of CNOOC's bid for Nexen would look at the broad trade issues identified by Schumer, he said.

'This does not have the hallmarks of something where they're buying sensitive telecommunications assets, or large portions of our domestic energy supply,' he said.

The committee has the power to ask companies for 'mitigation steps' to address security concerns, such as divestitures or security control agreements with the U.S.

government, Powell explained.

'It's rare that the committee has not been able to resolve national security concerns,' he said, also noting the president has the ultimate decision on whether to block a takeover of U.S. assets.

If the administration took a hard line against China, following Schumer's advice, Nexen conceivably could choose to divest its U.S. assets, a process that could hold up the deal and annoy U.S. allies, said Michael Levi, an energy policy analyst with the Council on Foreign Relations.

'It's more likely that Nexen would sell off its U.S. assets than that China would change its entire foreign investment policy,' Levi said in an interview.

'The United States does not have a lot of leverage here,' he said.

Still, Schumer's criticism is 'laudable,' Levi said, noting China does not provide the same kind of access to U.S. companies that the United States provides to Chinese companies.

Subject: RE: BS: selling America
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 10:31 PM

Shumer is right...

Bad deal for the US...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: selling America
From: gnu
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 10:33 PM

Bad deal for us. China is already in our oil patch big time.

Subject: RE: BS: selling America
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 10:44 PM

At least ya'll gonna sell some more oil...

We here in the states are just water (oil) boys carryin' ya'll's oil thru our heartland risking our water so the Chinese get lap it up...

This is the stupidist deal ever for the US...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: selling America
From: gnu
Date: 29 Jul 12 - 05:19 AM

Surely the deal must have been economically fesible for the US? I doubt if anyone would simply let a pipeline be built in their backyard without compensation.

Interestingly enough, at the ongoing premiers conference, amid the spat between AB and BC, the premier of our province has suggested that the pipeline be built eastward to benefit the rest of Canada. Some raised eyebrows and some people thinking, "Saaaayyy now... hmmmm." Big markets and the pipeline(s) could end up at two oil refineries on the Atlantic coast for shipping to big markets.

Kendall... you could be buying gas at the Irving refined in NB from AB tarsands oil and not have to worry about any pipes in the US' backyard.

Subject: RE: BS: selling America
From: kendall
Date: 29 Jul 12 - 06:34 AM

I buy Irving gasoline frequently. I also buy Shell, Hess and Texaco. I would almost rather walk than buy Exxon or Mobile.

Subject: RE: BS: selling America
From: Alice
Date: 29 Jul 12 - 10:41 AM

I joined the Made In America Movement when it started.

TheMadeInAmericaMovement.com

Join their site, their Facebook page, and spread the word!

Subject: RE: BS: selling America
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 29 Jul 12 - 10:45 AM

...I thought this might be about Alaska to Russia for a song?!

Subject: RE: BS: selling America
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 29 Jul 12 - 02:46 PM

Quite some time ago, in the early 70s, someone gave my son a kit for a model car. The box carried the telling words " Japanese quality at American prices"

Subject: RE: BS: selling America
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Jul 12 - 08:38 PM

Japanese quality nowadays is second to none as far as I'm concerned.

Subject: RE: BS: selling America
From: gnu
Date: 29 Jul 12 - 08:44 PM

Quality ain't Japanese or American or whatever... it's Robotic.

Subject: RE: BS: selling America
From: Janie
Date: 29 Jul 12 - 10:36 PM

"Made in America" ain't a simple concept these days. In most instances, the label means "assembled in America" (and while we are at it, define "America." USA? Canada? Mexico? Brazil? Argentina? Last I heard, America is part of the name of two large continents in the western hemisphere encompassing more than a score of countries.)

Lots of vehicles sold under foreign brands are actually assembled in the Americas. Parts and assemblies for both USA and foreign brands of vehicles are manufactured all over the world, including the USA, regardless of where the vehicle is assembled. Same is true for clothing. I don't know much about the electronics end of things. North Carolina, where I live, has losted and gained jobs in the tech manufacturing industry and I can't keep up with the balance.

If you want to buy purely "Made in America", assuming you mean "Made in the USA", the surest way to do that is to buy all your food, including meat and seafood, at your local cooperatively organized (as opposed to state Dept. of Agriculture organized) farmers market, and ask lots of questions of the producer, one of whom will usually be in the booth. Or subscribe to a local farmer's CSA.

Your Ford or Chevy probably has as many components manufactured overseas as does a Toyota or Volvo. Chances are good your Toyota or Subaru were either assembled here in the USA, or include a significant number of parts manufactured here.

It ain't so easy, these days, to "Go figure."

Subject: RE: BS: selling America
From: Alice
Date: 30 Jul 12 - 12:10 AM

You can build an entire house with made in America supplies and fixtures. A man in my town proved it. It's in the neighborhood not far from me.

http://theallamericanhome.com/tag/montana/

------
"An economist turned builder, Anders Lewendal, is building an entire home made with only American-made materials and says that other builders should, too.

"Every nail, every screw, every piece of tape," said Lewendal in the news clip. In total, there are more than 120 products from more than 33 states.

Lewendal claimed that if every builder bought only 5% more American-made building products, it would create 220,000 jobs. Economists interviewed by ABC asserted that his estimate is true."

Subject: RE: BS: selling America
From: Alice
Date: 30 Jul 12 - 12:17 AM

all American home builder interview

Here is a construction supply list of products. Share.

http://theallamericanhome.com/the-list/

Subject: RE: BS: selling America
From: gnu
Date: 30 Jul 12 - 05:01 AM

Well, as far as the vehicles are concerned, "Your Ford or Chevy" are American companies and "Toyota or Volvo" are not. Given the fact, as pointed out, that parts for all vehicles come from all over the world, I don't care if Hank outsources the hubcaps from Akihito or supplies the hubcaps to Carl but I do care where Hank lives. Seriously, it's that simple when you boil it down to the last detail.

As far as food goes, I buy as close to home as possible but I think most everyone does. Perhaps some buy from away when items are not in season "locally" but I don't. I buy watermelon from NA in season and I do not buy from elsewhere during the rest of the year. Same with cherries. Same with apples...

The groceries stores here are loaded with stuff from FAR away at "somewhat" cheaper prices than local stuff. Fact is, the far away producers are making low profits but those profits are gravy for them while they are killing the profits of local producers. Seafood and fruit from China? Not this little black duck. Even when Chinese garlic is 50 times cheaper than California garlic.

Subject: RE: BS: selling America
From: GUEST,donuel
Date: 30 Jul 12 - 12:57 PM

Neal Parsons beat me up in the High School locker room after someone told him I said something good about Red China in Social Studies Class.

Today I am beaming with schadenfreude to know he now works at Walmart.

Subject: RE: BS: selling America
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Jul 12 - 02:06 PM

DId you know that China is making private deals with American farmers to sell their entire crop directly to China?

As the global crop failure continues, inside deals will become the norm.

Wall St is currently financializing food the same way they did with mortgages by bundling derivitive deals and swaps of every description.
With Wall St. as the middle man to manipulate, skim and corrupt the availability of food, the spectre of man made famine will be added to the existing looming crop failure famine.

Subject: RE: BS: selling America
From: MarkS
Date: 30 Jul 12 - 11:44 PM

Once had a part time job selling mens clothing. Store stocked pants from China and some made in USA with the ILGWU union label.
Fellow walks in one day and looks at the Chinese pants. Price was
$19.99. Says to me that he is a union rep and only wants to buy union made products. No problem says I, take him to the rack where the union made pants are. Show him the ILGWU label. Show him "Made in USA" label.
Show him the price. $ 49.99.
Care to bet what he says next?
"I'm not going to spend THAT much!"

And congrats to Kendall for walking the walk in addition to talking the talk. Great example for all of us to follow.
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: selling America
From: GUEST,Kendall
Date: 31 Jul 12 - 07:13 AM

I know that many of the parts in my Chevy were made in Canada, but that's ok as far as I'm concerned.

I went to make breakfast yesterday and I noticed that the eggs come from Illinois! Why? we have egg farms here.

Strawberries from Florida, or California. I raise hell with the store managers but it does no good. All I can do is refuse to buy any imported food.

Subject: RE: BS: selling America
From: kendall
Date: 31 Jul 12 - 07:50 PM

I bought a weed whacker today and it ran 10 minutes before it quit. I took it back and complained that it was Chinese junk. The clerk looked at the box and he said it was made in Canada. I had to eat Crow.

Subject: RE: BS: selling America
From: gnu
Date: 31 Jul 12 - 08:20 PM

What's the brand name and model, Kendall? I am très curious.

Subject: RE: BS: selling America
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Aug 12 - 12:34 PM

Subject: RE: BS: selling America
From: GUEST,Howard Jones
Date: 01 Aug 12 - 02:28 PM

"Well, as far as the vehicles are concerned, "Your Ford or Chevy" are American companies and "Toyota or Volvo" are not. Given the fact, as pointed out, that parts for all vehicles come from all over the world, I don't care if Hank outsources the hubcaps from Akihito or supplies the hubcaps to Carl but I do care where Hank lives. Seriously, it's that simple when you boil it down to the last detail."

But is it that simple? Ford and Chevy may be based in the US but they are global businesses and will carry out operations wherever it suits them best. Which benefits the American economy more, an American car maker which imports hubcaps from overseas, or an overseas car maker which gets its hubcabs from Detroit?

We live in a global economy where none of these things are simple anymore.

Subject: RE: BS: selling America
From: kendall
Date: 01 Aug 12 - 04:54 PM

Gnu, Black & Decker, I don't remember the model.

I just had to replace my blood pressure monitor and NONE of them are made in America. I took Walgreens survey and made it very clear that I do not appreciate having no choice.

Subject: RE: BS: selling America
From: gnu
Date: 01 Aug 12 - 09:00 PM

Kendall... B&D is an American company. They manufacture products in 11 countries. If their product sucks, no matter where it is made, complain to the head office.

Subject: RE: BS: selling America
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Aug 12 - 07:37 PM

The way things are now you can never tell where anything is made.

Subject: RE: BS: selling America
From: kendall
Date: 03 Aug 12 - 01:53 PM

People used to complain about the poor quality of American cars, so they started buying Hondas, Hundai Nissans etc. Then the American companies wised up and started building good cars but it was too late. The buying public has not caught up with the times.

Toyotas are assembled in America and they are every bit as good as those that are assembled in Japan. That tells me that our unions are getting a bad rap. Quality starts with the designers.

Subject: RE: BS: selling America
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Aug 12 - 02:07 PM

Kendall, I don't think that any Japanese car company has a unionized assembly plant in the USA. That's why they put them in "right to work" states.

Also I think we all know that the fact that the Asians and Europeans have assembly plants here can be credited to "big government", bilateral trade agreements and tariffs, if it were up to the Ayn Randians and Romneys of this country, everything would be made where labor is cheapest and unions are weakest.

Subject: RE: BS: selling America
From: kendall
Date: 03 Aug 12 - 04:10 PM

I never meant to imply that the Toyota plants are non union.
"Right to work" that phrase always pisses me off.

Subject: RE: BS: selling America
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Aug 12 - 04:11 PM

Me too Kendall, me too.