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BS: 'Gay marriage' question
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: Don Firth Date: 04 Jan 13 - 08:05 PM Goofus, like I've been saying all along: Evidence for homosexuality geneDon Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: Bill D Date: 04 Jan 13 - 06:59 PM GfS... that link quotes an opinion of a contributor to the "Catholic Medical Association" (in 2003) It ends with suggestions about 'what good Catholics can do' You got any corroborating stuff (with or without lots of red underlining) from recent, unbiased sources? |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 04 Jan 13 - 06:23 PM TIA, Gladly.....but at this moment, time does not permit..because some musicians showed up...but I SHALL. ..and like I said, prior, I did not fully agree with the source..as you also noted. Will be back. GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: GUEST,TIA Date: 04 Jan 13 - 06:08 PM Ah, so you are in fact willing to accept the burden of proof for your own position. That is a start. Thanks. But it is an opinion piece - an interview of an openly anti-gay (and not surprisingly devout Catholic) pyschiatrist. No *proof* at all. Get me something from the peer-reviewed literature, and I promise that I will read it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 04 Jan 13 - 06:08 PM I'm neither hysterical or anything like your over active imagination may wish...shit..I'm even doing your homework FOR you...you expert, you! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 04 Jan 13 - 06:06 PM ...even though I have disagreements with the source...there is some factual evidence. Oh, and the closest, for all those who can't come up with it, or didn't know, and just spouted nonsense, the closest thing they have to a 'genetic link' is 5 genetic markers on section of the X-Chromosome called Xq28. Oh, I know...you 'knew' it all along...but they are ONLY indicators...NOT the determining 'gene'....unless, of course, you wanna' stretch the truth...which I'm sure some of the more outstanding, outspoken ASS-umers, may wish to do...and probably will... ...but it ain't the 'gene'. That issue will lie in the subject of 'receptors'...formed during the gestation period. (That is for all those who make the claim that they were that way since birth). GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: Don Firth Date: 04 Jan 13 - 06:05 PM Try not to be a TOTAL ass, GoofuS (Oh, sorry! I really shouldn't be asking you to do the impossible!) No, I do not know the "queer gene's" mailing address, apartment number, and zip code, but geneticists agree that there is more than enough evidence extant to indicate that homosexuality is genetically determined, probably by a combination of genes, and they are currently seeking further data. Don't bitch at me, take your whining to them!! AND why are you getting hysterical!?? Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: John P Date: 04 Jan 13 - 06:02 PM Here's a number: go find 100 gay people and ask them whether any of them had a choice about who to get turned on by. Here's another number: go find 100 straight people and ask them whether they had any choice about who to get turned on by. Here's another number: You will find 100% agreement. You should consider using common sense. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 04 Jan 13 - 05:57 PM Here, TIA....this is just for starters: Here, (just for starters)TIA, read up on it... GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: GUEST,TIA Date: 04 Jan 13 - 05:18 PM Just not getting the subtlety are we? What is your "proof" that it is behavioral? I do not accept the burden of proof. I say it is yours. Don't like it? Tough. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 04 Jan 13 - 05:17 PM bobad, and your source was???? Give me a name of a researcher..a lab, a date....ANYTHING, that goes beyond 'suggests', 'seems to indicate' 'may suggest'..give me a FACT! ..and yet there are some ridiculous Bozos who INSIST that it is a fact(some of them right here on Mudcat!) ..and no matter how much they INSIST...they have NOTHING to back up their claim. Go figure! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 04 Jan 13 - 05:12 PM Yeah..and one in a thousand (true number) can roll it backwards!...but I'm sure with all these 'experts' on here who specialize on 'homosexual genes', would have THAT number..you'd think it would be dear to their hearts. Fact is..it doesn't exist! Oh??..you say it does??..Post it! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: bobad Date: 04 Jan 13 - 05:01 PM The cause of many conditions was identified as being of genetic origin before the technology to identify the specific gene responsible was available. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 04 Jan 13 - 04:38 PM GFS, I know for an absolute fact that the ability to roll one's tongue is a genetic trait, but I could not give you a catalogue number. Further, like most genetic traits, it is not under the control of a single gene but a complex interaction of several. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 04 Jan 13 - 04:21 PM Number, please?? Don?? TIA?? Don T?? Musket?? Saul?? Steve?? Without it your rap falls completely down! So just come up with a number for the 'gene'..if you can't Google it up, you can always rely on your delusional imaginations. Number??????? GfS P.S. Maybe a 'new' thought may dawn on them, when they can't find it! |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: GUEST,TIA Date: 04 Jan 13 - 04:07 PM "Well, children..that's all fine and dandy...but you CAN NOT post ANY proof that homosexuality is {...} behavioral.." On whom lies the burden of proof? And no LH, we may not change any minds, but fear and loathing of those who are different must be opposed whether you think you will "win" or not. You love to say that some of us are in these discussions "to win". Not true, because as you point out, there is very little chance of "winning", and we are well aware of that. But principle sometimes dictates fighting even when there is no possibility of a "win". |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 04 Jan 13 - 04:05 PM Number please. GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: Little Hawk Date: 04 Jan 13 - 04:00 PM This is a lot like watching the WWF, only less sweaty and not so noisy. Keep it in good taste, guys! |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: Don Firth Date: 04 Jan 13 - 03:45 PM Yeah, yeah, yeah. . . . How come you and Ake spend so much time obsessing about what other people do in private? You two have sure devoted a lot of verbiage to it. Do you ever think about anything else? I didn't think so! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 04 Jan 13 - 03:43 PM Don Froth: "...Both of those "homophobes," especially GfS, are scared spitless of their own genes." Care to give me the number of that 'gene'??..They DO catalog them..surely the 'gene' in which you speak has a designation number..go for it! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 04 Jan 13 - 03:43 PM And why do you call Ake homophobe? He has said nothing against the gay community, merely pointing out the huge risks that MSMs run from infection. He actually cares about them. If STIs did not exist he would have no objection to same-sex marriage or anything else. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 04 Jan 13 - 03:38 PM Don, I'm NOT 'homophobic'...that's just the name the idiots use when they can't substantiate their opinions with facts!..so they resort to stupid, inane name-calling... I guess it's easier that to correct one's self-willed delusions..and want to 'sound educated'..of some sort. It's a load of crap! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: Don Firth Date: 04 Jan 13 - 03:34 PM That, Little Hawk, is why I'm not arguing the point anymore. I have GfS and Ake pinpointed, and no reasonable argument or mountain of facts is going to change their minds. Both of those "homophobes," especially GfS, are scared spitless of their own genes. They'd probably be a lot happier if they came out of the closet to themselves. Little point in arguing. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: Little Hawk Date: 04 Jan 13 - 03:13 PM Why are you folks getting so worked up over this? Do any of you imagine you're going to change anyone else's opinion here? Or prove for all time how bad and how wrong they are? And even if you did prove it, then what? There's no Inquisition around anymore, see? So you can't have them arrested and burnt at the stake for not seeing things your way. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 04 Jan 13 - 02:53 PM Well, children..that's all fine and dandy...but you CAN NOT post ANY proof that homosexuality is anything else but behavioral..to the point that, (in reality), is nothing more than being reproductively IMPAIRED!..and being that ALL living things on the planet have two attributes in common, the will to survive and reproduce(you should have learned that in your first biology class), then I would have to say, that heteros do not make that choice..but homosexuals THINK they cannot....and that is really a shame..because there are some homosexuals that I've known, who were really pretty talented and sensitive people...and the bummer is, we ALL lose that...because those traits that they have in them, is removed from the gene pool...because they FEEL they can't pass it on...and have CHOSEN (for a number of reasons..usually emotional), to hold onto various resentments toward a parental figure, who may have unjustly or unthinkingly offended them, and emotionally they FEEL, either a lack of confidence, or as a matter, of mutual familiarity, to have sex with someone of their own sex....and that my dear pubic brothers and sisters is the plain TRUTH..unlike those who grab an OPINION, and try to turn it into a 'fact'...which evolves to a delusion...and you know what??...'schizophrenia' is a condition that one cannot distinguish reality and fantasy(or delusion)....AND THAT happens to be a true FACT! So I'm sure to some of you, your 'passions', have become your opinions, (and vice verse) and to you they appear to be facts...but they are not.... Just like those living things on the planet, try procreating by believing your illusionary delusions...NOTHING HAPPENS!!!..(you know why?....it's not a FACT of life!) Now I guess I've become the 'bad guy' breaking the 'bad news' to you...but so what?....Somebody had to do it....to be faithful to the truth! Good Luck.....but in REALITY try raising a child of your own blood, and nurture it, to become full of the things that you were unjustifiably denied...use what you know to avoid the hurts you have experienced along the way..because those 'wrongs' seemed to have never been righted...and THAT is the shame of it all...and the hurt that many homosexuals live with.....and in knowing that,they really have SO MUCH to offer! ...and if you are going to counter my statements, try doing it with a FACT...at least once in a while, instead of an OPINION that is becoming the popular delusion, of the reproductively impaired!!!!..and their pompous self-righteous promoters of bad science, and other assorted bullshit they like to spout! Don't like it?..tough! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 04 Jan 13 - 12:19 PM I see that pointing out odious attitudes is seen as demonising apparently. If you find some-one's attitude odious, you should say so. If someone makers a reasoned statement of fact, it is wrong to say they must have odious attitudes based only on that. I do not believe anyone has made an odious statement, and see no evidence of odious attitudes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: GUEST,TIA Date: 04 Jan 13 - 12:04 PM From GfS in the course of a single post: "… homosexuality is BEHAVIORAL!...not genetic!" … … … "ALL THE INFO IS NOT IN YET'?????????????????????...AND YOU ARE CALLING IT A FACT?????????!!!!!!" The irony, hypocrisy, ignorance,... (you choose) displayed by making these two statements in a single screed is funny-sad. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: John P Date: 04 Jan 13 - 11:06 AM Guest from Sanity, since you clearly have decided to behave as a heterosexual, I have to assume that you are bisexual. For me, and for everyone else I know who is firmly either heterosexual or homosexual, there wasn't a choice. You are one of the lucky few who get to choose your sexual partners based on who they are, without also having to take into account what gender they are. I'm sorry you have chosen to limit yourself to women. That must be difficult for you sometimes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: Musket Date: 04 Jan 13 - 10:18 AM Civil partnerships are and always will be discriminatory. I said it at the time and every one I have been a guest at, (four or five I reckon) I have felt that one day I will be telling my Grandchildren one day about when in my living memory, people could have signs outside pubs saying no blacks, no dogs, no Irish. How some women had the word "obey" used at their marriage vows and how Gay people weren't even allowed to have marriage vows! Eventually, till reason overcame, there was a system of apartheid called civil partnership. I see it as a stepping stone and events appear to bear that out. I also see bigotry being exposed both within religion and secular. I see how every politician who says we should strive for equality is waking up to what that simple statement means. I see religions having to yet again alter their understanding of their translations in order to appear somewhat relevant. I also would like to yet again point out that the thread title, Gay marriage question, is a question for gay people to consider, usually about the time they want to get married.. I also would like to point out that we have European conventions and courts that will correct any political pandering to right wing idiots. Most of all, I see that pointing out odious attitudes is seen as demonising apparently. I'm a fucking demon, that's what I am. zzzzzzzzzz if you don't like being a bigot, stop speaking as one. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 04 Jan 13 - 09:04 AM impute! |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 04 Jan 13 - 07:26 AM Gnu. In response, ake, let me re-quote you more fully... "Many people of all colours and genders are discriminated against.....some rightly," YOUR words, written and posted for all to read for eternity.Completely and utterly wrong...... Many people of all colours and genders are discriminated against.....some rightly, some wrongly Those were not his words. You selectively edited his words to change his meaning. He said, "I do not discriminate against Blacks, Women or Homosexuals, but I do stand against obviously stupid legislation." It was clear from his previous statement that he was referring to criminal behaviour being rightly discriminated against. Why do you all need to demonize anyone who does not share your views? Why not just challenge the actual statements? No need to impugn a nasty motive behind the statement, just attack the statement. I suppose the problem is that many statements are factual. Attacking the messenger does not change the message. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 04 Jan 13 - 06:12 AM Keith has been quiet because I have been away. Flip flop? I have been consistent. When I said everyone was happy, I meant in Parliament. However, I do not remember there being any outcry against Civil Partnerships. Was there? Did Musket, Don T, Steve, Gnu post anything here decrying them as discriminatory, or were you quite pleased with it at the time? Please remind us all boys. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 04 Jan 13 - 05:22 AM Guest from Sanity? Far from sanity. If sexual orientation is a lifestyle choice, as you mistakenly believe, then you will have no difficulty in telling us exactly when you chose to be heterosexual. You are the one who should seek help. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 04 Jan 13 - 05:01 AM Don Firth: "Saulgoldie has the right of it. Yeah, verily!" What a load of crap!..He would have it 'right' IF you could tie race, creed or color into it..but homosexuality is BEHAVIORAL!...not genetic! Now look at this PERFECT EXAMPLE of what I posted previously: From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 23 Dec 12 - 06:22 PM "It means NOTHING to them..THEY DON'T CARE! What they have done is taken a 'political' position, unsubstantiated by anything factual...and then resorted to how the FEEL about it...in other words, they have adopted delusion, as reality." NOW LOOK AT THIS!! From: Don Firth Date: 27 Dec 12 - 03:23 PM Lesbianism? Quite possibly it, too, is genetic. But so far, more research has been done into male homosexuality and although there is speculation that the same thing is true for lesbians, all the info is not in yet. 'ALL THE INFO IS NOT IN YET'?????????????????????...AND YOU ARE CALLING IT A FACT?????????!!!!!! Don Froth: "I'm sorry if it cuts into your income as a snake-oil salesman, but those are the FACTS!" What FACTS????..You haven't presented ANY in support that homosexuality is genetic!!..NONE!!! ZIP!!! NADA!! Once you posted a study done by a homosexual researcher out of Massachusetts,..AND YOU BANTERED THE ARTICLE.....BUT IN THE ARTICLE, EVEN THE RESEARCHER SAID THAT NO GENE HAD YET BEEN FOUND....BUT YOU INSISTED THAT HE FOUND THE GENE! Don Froth: "Unlike you, I've done the research on the matter." ...and you deluded yourself...JUST AS I POSTED!:..."It means NOTHING to them..THEY DON'T CARE! What they have done is taken a 'political' position, unsubstantiated by anything factual...and then resorted to how the FEEL about it...in other words, they have adopted delusion, as reality." ....someone who chooses what preference they want to imitate....and all the imitation on the planet, will NOT cause a man to bear a child or a woman to provide a seed...and that stuff comes with the mental and emotional circuitry to do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Delusion defending delusion! You should seek help! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: GUEST,Musket sans cookie Date: 04 Jan 13 - 03:08 AM I assume this is the point where I push my glasses up the bridge of my nose with a self satisfied smirk? After all, Akenaton has just admitted to his rather transparent hate and bigotry. Thing is though I'm not. Mainly because he still stands by his position. In fact it appears to be on the basis of having a hernia and envy of those who seem to have had a bigger lick of the pudding biwl than him. In that case he always will feel bitter and twisted. So not much point in debating with him. Keith on the other hand has gone quiet. Possibly to think through his previous position but possibly to check Nigel Farage's latest position before giving the rest of us the benefit of it. Discrimination is wrong and inequality may be impossible to eradicate but that doesn't mean you have laws to promote inequality. I'm married and it has nothing whatever to do with lawmakers whether it is consummated or not. Human rights legislation is higher than law on grounds for divorce. So there is no argument for differentiating other than promoting an obscene form of apartheid. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: gnu Date: 03 Jan 13 - 10:33 PM In response, ake, let me re-quote you more fully... "Many people of all colours and genders are discriminated against.....some rightly," YOUR words, written and posted for all to read for eternity. There. Can I be any more clear? Except, of course, to say, fuck off, eh? |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 03 Jan 13 - 07:51 PM ""I have endured three hernias, numerous broken bones, punctured lung and countless cuts, bruises and strains.....all work related. I have only a basic standard of living, as I know most of my customers struggle to pay the going rates and I charge accordingly.....but the hierarchy of our financial system who have caused so much misery by their greed and avarice continue to enjoy a standard of living far beyond anything I could even dream of."" So, instead of fighting your inequality of life, you use it as an excuse for discriminating against those who fail your elevated criteria for consideration as equal human beings. Nuff Said! Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: akenaton Date: 03 Jan 13 - 06:47 PM Discrimination, like equality, is a "liberal" buzz word..........completely meaningless in our society. I have worked hard all my life, and still work hard, tho' i am well over retiring age. I have endured three hernias, numerous broken bones, punctured lung and countless cuts, bruises and strains.....all work related. I have only a basic standard of living, as I know most of my customers struggle to pay the going rates and I charge accordingly.....but the hierarchy of our financial system who have caused so much misery by their greed and avarice continue to enjoy a standard of living far beyond anything I could even dream of. Is this equality? Will it ever change under this system? No! this system depends on inequality, no one down here wants to be equal to Joe next door.....most of us when we are young dream the dream......and when we grow up (a little) we just suck our thumb. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: akenaton Date: 03 Jan 13 - 06:23 PM Oh, so you think that there should be no curbs on human behaviour? That some people should not be criminalised for what they do? This world is full of positive and negative discrimination. If you do not understand that, go back to sucking your thumb. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: gnu Date: 03 Jan 13 - 05:59 PM "some rightly, some wrongly"???? Nuff said. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: akenaton Date: 03 Jan 13 - 05:51 PM "Discrimination against ANY people is wrong in most moral codes" Completely and utterly wrong...... Many people of all colours and genders are discriminated against.....some rightly, some wrongly I do not discriminate against Blacks, Women or Homosexuals, but I do stand against obviously stupid legislation. If Society discriminates in its legislation towards those who wish to avail themselves of group "marriage", "marriage" to a close relative,or any other proscribed pairing, why do they wish to redefine the institution to include a sexual minority with such horrendous health figures? As always the answer is political......a sop to the media and celebrity, which contains a huge over-representation of homosexuals and represents huge political power |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: gnu Date: 03 Jan 13 - 03:39 PM Ake, your "facts" suck, big time. Saul's don't... especiaslly about dinosaurs. Fact is, you and the other bigots are the ones sucking their thumbs. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: Don Firth Date: 03 Jan 13 - 03:22 PM Saulgoldie has the right of it. Yeah, verily! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 03 Jan 13 - 11:24 AM So, since you did make both the statements ""It just emphasises what a sudden and dramatic out of the blue surprise this has been to everyone."" Dec 31st 01:20 ""Just to show that it has not just come out of the blue"" Dec 31st 05:53 We can assume that you ALSO have suddenly changed your mind. That would be a good idea if either mind were working properly. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 03 Jan 13 - 11:18 AM ""Or pick a fight with folks with folks who are not in possession of most of the facts. Being abusive, or parroting "it just isn't fair" bill earn you no Brownie points."" NO! I prefer to fight with people who are using misinformation in a feeble and unsuccessful attempt to hide their homophobic agenda. Or to put it another way, you and "Flippy Floppy" Keith. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: GUEST,saulgoldie Date: 03 Jan 13 - 10:31 AM Ake, It wasn't so long ago in human history that people with dark skin were not considered people. It also wasn't so long ago in human history that women were considered second-class citizens who had no expectation of being taken seriously when they said they were abused or raped, or had a reasonable expectation of employment on par with men. Also in recent memory and still today but less so, homosexuals were/are not treated as full human beings. It mattered not that Blacks have a higher propensity to sickle-cell anemia, or that women have an, um, greater tendency to become pregnant than men. It also matters not whether homosexuals carry 90%, 70%, or 20% of the cases of HIV. Discrimination against ANY people is wrong in most moral codes. Discrimination against Blacks is racism. Discrimination against women is mysogyny. And discrimination against homosexuals is homophobia, plain and simple. It walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck; it is a duck. If you replace any of the reasons for discriminating against Blacks or women with "homosexuals" you can see how very silly it sounds. You can come up with all kinds of statistics trying to "justify" your hatred/fear of certain people. But that does not entitle you to treat them as anything less than human beings. Fortunately for the rest of us, Ake, dinosaurs like you are becoming fewer and fewer. Saul |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: Steve Shaw Date: 03 Jan 13 - 10:08 AM Had "everyone been happy" we wouldn't be having this conversation now, would we? Some applecarts just need upsetting. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: akenaton Date: 03 Jan 13 - 10:04 AM Steve.....Keith is referring to the manner in which this legislation is being foisted on the public, without due process. He has never stated that he is agaist Homosexual "marriage" or Civil Union in principle. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: Steve Shaw Date: 03 Jan 13 - 09:52 AM Everyone IN. Sorry. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question From: Steve Shaw Date: 03 Jan 13 - 09:21 AM everyone was happy. Self-evidently untrue, Keith. Everyone is your tightly-closed and prejudiced circle, perhaps. |