Explain the BS rules

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: The Shambles
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 08:06 AM

LOL. Does Shambles REALLY think Mudcat's general population will tolerate an official PRAYER???????????

No mention here of the word OFFICIAL anything but this verse of Wesley's S' remains simple common sense.

The general Mudcat population are seemingly prepared to toletate many things. Given my recent experience on our forum - no - I do expect such basic common sense to be tolerated and encouraged. It is no way near as much fun as encouraging folk to just posting to pass judgement on the worth of the contributions of others.

I have found that common sense is one of the rarest of all qualities - possibly and sadly as there are no college courses or degrees to be earned in the subject and very few qualified teachers?

Subject: RE: No Explanation needed
From: GUEST,no khookie khandu
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 06:37 PM

"Like the fool I am & I'll always be
I've got a dream, I've got a dream
You can change my mind but you can't change me"

&

"I been upside down & all around & back again
And found myself right back where I started again"

Jim Croce..."I've Got a Name" & "Age"

k

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: wysiwyg
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 05:04 PM

I'm glad you got some comic relief from the thought, brucie, but I for one hope not to see such a thread or the results of one. As I explained to you once before, this is a very, very sore subject for a lot of Mudcatters, particularly me.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: Peace
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 04:51 PM

WYSIWYG,

That is VERY funny actually. Imagine trying to develop a prayer that would be accepted by all Mudcat people.

1) Reference to God, G-D, Divine One, Creator, god, gods, non-god, no-god, maybe-god, only on Tuesdays-go. Oh, yeah, I love to start that thread. LOLOLOL

Afetr the first 79 posts arguing whether the site NEEDED an official prayer and whether Joe or a clone should delete the thread alltogether, then Shambles getting in with something to do with censorsip--sorry Shambles, I love you but that was a funny notion I had to let out--and then the sciece types debating whether or not a prayer could actually FIT into the allocated space in BS, and the occasional remark about how stupid it all is--LOLOL

This is the first belly laugh I have had in two weeks. Thank you. I have tears in my eyes. I am gonna start a thread.

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: wysiwyg
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 04:40 PM

LOL. Does Shambles REALLY think Mudcat's general population will tolerate an official PRAYER???????????

~S~

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: Peace
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 03:25 PM

Shambles, or whatever name YOU currently choose to use:

Thank you for explaining. Now I don't have to ask again.

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: The Shambles
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 06:41 AM

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: Max - PM
Date: 26 Oct 99 - 12:40 AM

Since you are with us, you get to help us make the rules. Of late it seems that it is used for non-music related questions, comments, thoughts and stories. It may be like just a light conversation piece, or just killing time, or getting through a bad day, or anything non-academic (if you will). Or, just don't use it. It is what you make it. Don't sweat the rules, cause there aint none.

Wesley S came up with the following [posted in the latest 'hug and prayer complaint thread]- it says more in a few lines than I can ever manage, in my long-winded way.

Grant our members and guests the serenity to accept the things they cannot change - the courage to change the things they can - and the wisdom to realise that this is a forum open to the public and that they have no control over the posts and ideas of others.

Brucie (or whatever name you currently choose to use). The above is the answer. The only real control you, I or anyone else has here - is over their own actions.

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: Peace
Date: 18 Sep 04 - 08:14 PM

"Fair enough and thanks for keep bringing this thread back to the top."

Welcome.

Now, how's about an answer?

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Sep 04 - 08:02 PM

Shambles:

you keep quoting:
"Max said:

Don't sweat the rules, cause there aint none."

Having seen your rants on the subject of PELs (Some of which were necessary) you pointed out that our politicians seemed unable to understand the English in which they were written, and that the legislation didn't say what the politicians seemed to believe it said.

You appear to have the same lack of understanding. In the case of the above quote, the standard rule of English would read it as meaning there are rules (double negative).
However, I am willing to accept that Max was using the American idiom of using 'ain't' as an intensifier. Even in this case, the quotation was in the present tense, which means that as of 1999 there were no rules. It clearly did not mean that there would never be a need for any rules.

Nigel

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: The Shambles
Date: 18 Sep 04 - 07:45 PM

Fair enough and thanks for keep bringing this thread back to the top.

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: Peace
Date: 18 Sep 04 - 04:06 PM

Shambles: That doesn't answer my questions. Por favor.

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Sep 04 - 01:37 PM

Once again, fair enough.

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: The Shambles
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 07:35 PM

Max said:

Don't sweat the rules, cause there aint none.

Joe says:

Abuse of Thread Creation
In addition, it seems are a very few people who create a very large number of our threads - and most of these threads have nothing to do with music, which is the primary focus of this Forum. All of us are concerned about the current political situation, and we all have a need to voice our opinion. However, I can't see why we have to split this discussion into so many pieces, why it is so important for these few people to start so many new threads on more-or-less the same thing.

I've experimented with various methods of controlling this mess, and I haven't found the perfect solution. I'm open to suggestions, and I will continue to try a variety of things. When things get out of hand, you can expect to see threads consolidated or renamed, and frivolous threads deleted.

I count 14 Iraq threads active today. I'm mad as hell about Bush's statement that he "respectfully disagrees" with the millions who protest his Iraq war - but I don't know where to put my comments, or whether somebody else has already said what I have to say.

I'm frustrated. What can we do to put a sense of order into our discussion of the political situation? How can we allow everyone to say what they think, without allowing the Forum to be dominated by a few idiots who overwhelm us with their verbosity?

I'll tell you one thing I'm going to do: if you start a thread with a cut-and-paste non-music article, I'll delete the whole damn thread. The policy on cut-and-paste is clear. Follow it.

Another thing you can expect: if you start more than one political thread in a day, expect them all to be consolidated with others. Your limit is ONE PER DAY, and fewer would be greatly appreciated.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: The Shambles
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 07:31 PM

Copy and paste prohibitions

Thread proliferation control

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: PoppaGator
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 05:35 PM

If you select the "BS" prefix when starting a thread, the thread will appear down here in the BS section.

If you select any other prefix, or no prefix at all, the thread will appear up in the "main" or "music" section.

If you select a prefix inappropriate to your topic, your thread *might* be moved up or down to the other section. Or maybe not.

In extreme circumstances, a thread might be such utter (and offensive) "BS" that someone removes it.

As far as I know, these are the only rules regarding BS.

In regard to all that other stuff, I hereby declare that the times they *did* a-change, but maybe not enough and certainly not in ways that any of us expected.

Hash brownies were and are great, but dosage has always been hard to control/predict -- "Your milage may vary."

I think that about covers it.

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: Peace
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 03:58 PM

Shambles:

What do you perceive to be the solution to whatever the problems is as you see it.

1) In small words, what is the problem.

2) In simple terms, what is the solution.

Thank you.

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 03:51 PM

blar, blar, blar=Stop moaningf!

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: The Shambles
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 03:26 PM

y'know shambles - if things were as whacked as you seem to believe - virtually every one of your posts for the last several weeks would be deleted. But they haven't been, have they? It would be far simpler and certainly less annoying to do so.

Well at least three or more BS threads that I have contributed to have been closed. Mainly for containing just what? BS.

Here we go again - 'Let's all get together and 'scragg' the bearer of the message because we don't like the sound of it and they are annoying'.

But OK - So I am totally wrong. Me being wrong and a pain in the ass does not change anything does it? Threads are still being closed and deleted, along with perfectly acceptable contributions. Posters are still encouraging the monkeys by feeding them back insults and everyone is encouraged to judge the worth of everyone else's postings.

This is now the spirit of the Mudcat? It has not much to with the Mudcat spirit that I have willingly contributed to for so. I have no intention of accepting second or third best - without making my best efforts to remain true the spirit of an open discussion forum that does not make pedantic judgements. One that welcomes all contributions and does not keep trying to encourage posters with different view to 'go somewhere else'.

I can live with all the BS and the insulting monkeys for they are not the one's judging posters, closing and deleting threads. It is the rest that worry me.

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 03:14 PM

Shambles moans too much!
h always making daft threads about censer ship, then moan wehn they get delted or closed!
he should get a dog, then he could spend his time taking it for walks [keep him fit as well]!
or start knitting, [make a few jumpers, [winter is coming soon].

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: Big Mick
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 03:09 PM

Why continue to feed this crap. It is clear that Mudcat exists in an evolutionary way. Go with the flow. Roger just goes off on his tangents when he has nothing else to do.

Mick

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 02:12 PM

Not so much rules as customs. Maybe, even, traditions.

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: Wolfgang
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 01:00 PM

Some words from Max in 2002.

Shambles, if you are not contented with Max tell him directly.
Mudcat is not run today as it was said in the 1999 quote. So what? You can read innumerable statements after 1999 to another policy. Most of these statements are from Joe. You don't agree with the new policy. That's fine. But what is the purpose of the old quote? To tell Max that he has changed a policy and you do not agree? Or do you think that the change has only be made by Joe against the wishes of Max and without him knowing?

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 12:47 PM

ah, Shambles...I have a little diploma in Philosophy entitling me to answer you!

"from false premises, anything follows"...since "there ain't no rules" IS a rule, IT must be false...ergo...

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: MMario
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 11:55 AM

y'know shambles - if things were as whacked as you seem to believe - virtually every one of your posts for the last several weeks would be deleted. But they haven't been, have they? It would be far simpler and certainly less annoying to do so.

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: The Shambles
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 11:51 AM

If it is - how exactly can you undertake judicious editing/moderating based upon that one rule?

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 11:47 AM

...and is THAT a rule?

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: The Shambles
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 11:41 AM

Max said:

Don't sweat the rules, cause there aint none.

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 11:27 AM

if "anything goes", then judicious editing/moderating goes also...

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 08:49 AM

Shambles. Take a close look back in time. The BS prefix was not created NOT to be used. Joe Clones did not exist NOT to fix threads or Joe NOT to perform some moderation.

It's OK quoting someone, but please give me your reasons why you think these things existed in 1999. Do you really suppose BS prefix was created not to be used or that editing power was not granted not to be used? I mean where on earth would be the point in spending time to create these facilities not to use them. The facts of the forum development speak for themselves.

As I said before, the anything goes is a Mudcat myth. It sounds great but simply isn't true now or in 1999. That most things go and the editorial policy here is very moderate I think is a fair statement.

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: The Shambles
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 06:50 AM

I still feel that way. There are some things that really are matters of life and death, and this isn't one of them.

Perhaps this can be first explained to those who have volunteered to impose pedantic protection measures upon us and in a manner that suggest that these and the imposition of non-exsistent rules, are a matter of life and death?

Sometimes it is difficult to see if something is a matter of life or death. Or when it can grow to be that. Elephants know the things to avoid and to protect their young from. Short of falling down a ravine the world does not present too many obvious natural dangers to an adult elephant - who may as result become a little complacent about their own welfare. However, the smallest insect bite or even smallest bacteria, infecting the smallest scratch - may prove to be a matter of life or death and enough to bring the biggest and proudest to their demise.

That is why human beings think that mass immunisation of perfectly healthy individuals ls - is a matter of life or death. But even then - this is not generally thought necessary to impose upon people against their wishes, even if we may feel it is for their own good.

And many of us still set about doing something about matters that they accept may not be matters of life and death - but they still matter. I tend to have more respect for those who are doing what they think best (even if I may disagree with them) than those who do nothing but pass complacent judgement from on high (on one side only) and who feel that this is a respectable position.   

It is I agree, a matter of proportion. Many (if not all) of the current protection measures are completely out of proportion to the nature of the problem. You have only to look at the words used, to see this. Words like counter-attack, danger, defend, harm and even worse have all routinly been used to justify these measures. And those who do not consider all this to be propotionate are accused of over-reation!!!!

For the point of digging-up this thread is simply to point out that there are NO RULES TO BE IMPOSED! However, that is not the same as not abiding by those we feel are sensible and proportionate to an open discussion forum.

The regular judgement and imposed closure or deltion of entire threads because of a few that may be judged too offensive to remain - because the volunteer does not see that they should make the effort to edit only the offinding contribution - is NOT proportionate.

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: GUEST,Matai
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 03:28 AM

I can't believe this dates from 1999. Where did it go for the last five years?
Noone has mentioned the very fact that there has been a revolution happening all around us.
When my daughter leaves her University Lecturing job on a Friday and goes to the pub she and all her women friends think nothing of it.
Thirty years ago none of us (women)would have been doing that.
And men are home looking after the babies and getting dinner on for when Mum comes home from the pub.
One of the Folk Club presidents proudly showed me a line-up of women guests over two months of the year. A first I reckon. And just last month eight women put their names down for floor-spots at my local Folk-club. In twenty-five years of folk-clubbing I've never seen that happen so spontaneously before.
It is like women have crept up on the world and are out there learning to take it on.
This is Bloody Superlative.

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Sep 04 - 08:25 PM

And I thought over again
My small adventure
As with a shore-wind I drifted out
In my kayak
And I thought I was in danger

My fears,
Those small ones
That I thought so big
For all the vital things I had to get and to reach

And yet, there is only
One great thing,
The only thing:
To live to see in huts and on journeys
The great light that dawns
And the light that fills the world.

That came from a great book called "The Unwritten Song - Poetry of the Primitive and Traditional Peoples of the World" edited by Willard R. Trask. This particular song comes from Canadian Inuit - "Copper Eskimo - Victoria Island; Kent Peninsula; Bernard Hrbour", and was apparently taken down and translated back in the Twenties.

I think stuck it in there as a reminder that a sense of proportion in these matters is not a bad idea, and I feel this song sums that up pretty well.

I still feel that way. There are some things that really are matters of life and death, and this isn't one of them.

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: The Shambles
Date: 16 Sep 04 - 11:03 AM

Perhaps some of us need reminding that there are no rules.....?

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: Max - PM
Date: 26 Oct 99 - 12:40 AM

Since you are with us, you get to help us make the rules. Of late it seems that it is used for non-music related questions, comments, thoughts and stories. It may be like just a light conversation piece, or just killing time, or getting through a bad day, or anything non-academic (if you will). Or, just don't use it. It is what you make it. Don't sweat the rules, cause there aint none.

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Oct 99 - 04:22 PM

And I thought over again My small adventure As with a shore-wind I drifted out In my kayak And I thought I was in danger

My fears, Those small ones That I thought so big For all the vital things I had to get and to reach

And yet, there is only One great thing, The only thing: To live to see in huts and on journeys The great light that dawns And the light that fills the world

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 28 Oct 99 - 06:45 PM

Fortunato... it was eighteen bucks and you won't see any of it til I get back my copy of Abbey Road.

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: MMario
Date: 28 Oct 99 - 12:04 PM

thosp! where ya' been! drop over into the Tavern and have a drink, some seafood, and put your feet up!

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: thosp
Date: 28 Oct 99 - 11:47 AM

home at last - home at last- great god almighty - home at last !!!!!

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: WyoWoman
Date: 28 Oct 99 - 11:04 AM

Fortunato, was that YOU? You haven't changed a whit.

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: Fortunato
Date: 27 Oct 99 - 01:43 PM

Moonchild: I'm sorry about night at the Red Fox.

LonesomeEJ: where've you been man, don't you owe me 20 bucks? That's alright, forget it.

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: harpgirl
Date: 27 Oct 99 - 01:24 PM

...ah LEJ...such diamonds, emeralds ,rubies spilling from those handsome lips!!! really though...I think you've hit on something about the 'cat... though I'm hardly the effusive type, I agree with you...harpgirl

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: WyoWoman
Date: 27 Oct 99 - 11:00 AM

Sorry LEJ, I was just feeling a little shy. (Hey. It happens!)

I had originally written "Me, too," but decided that was insufficient. Go ahead, though. Pop a bubble. It'll make you feel better...

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: Allan C.
Date: 27 Oct 99 - 07:46 AM

Leej, I thank you for your words. I think in one short paragraph you summed up many of the thoughts I have had floating around about the people of this wonderful community.

The bond is all the more special when it is experienced in person. I recall the feeling of arriving at an old friend's house on the evening I drove up to Annap's first gathering. We all sat around and talked and sang together without reservation or pretension until the wee hours of that Friday night. And in the morning Bill Sables and I were the first ones up. We sat on the steps while Bill had his morning cigarette and we talked together like people who had known each other all our lives.

This same kind of feeling came over me time and time again at the Getaway. I know I was not the only one to feel intense connection with so many.

I feel it often when I am here at the Mudcat. It is a feeling beyond compare. Does it get better than this? Yes. When you see this bunch in person the emotions are deeper and wider than can be expressed by my choppy ramblings.

People of the Mudcat, I love you.

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 27 Oct 99 - 01:34 AM

aw garsh!? I spew forth an emotional testimony to the honesty and sincerity of this place, and what do I get from Wyo...aw, GARSH?? If you were standing here, I would pop at least six bubbles in your blister-pack fer that..

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: WyoWoman
Date: 27 Oct 99 - 12:48 AM

Aw, garsh.

I remember when we used to wear costumes to class for no good reason. Feel like wearing a top hat and tails? Wear 'em to American History. Feel like dressing like a monk? Go ahead to the coffee house -- someone will think it's fun. One day the man who was to become my husband showed up in a suit and tie, which hardly anyone really *got* at first. His statement was that it's ALL costume, it's all perspective, and that's elastic. It doesn't really mean anything, except what we say it means, but we all act as if there are clay tablets somewhere saying what we may and must not wear, how we may and must not act...

Not a bad line of thinking for a bunch of kids...

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 27 Oct 99 - 12:33 AM

You know, my friends, that sometimes I make a connection between that strange and beautiful time, and all of you in this strange and beautiful place. And it's a bit like we all knew each other as starry-eyed, or righteously angry, or tragically cynical kids in that long-ago time. As if we had sat together in honest discouse; the marchers, the soldiers, the weekend hippies, and the young republicans. And it is as if we spread far and wide in pursuit of our grown-up lives, and struggled, and were loved, and created, and lost, and found enlightenment, and were made bitter, and flew, stumbled, or dreamed our way into this surprising place. It seems that I have had these discussions, bared these feelings, lost my temper, wept, with all of you before as I am doing now. And I do not mean that you remind me of people that I knew in that time, but that my overwhelming impression is that you are in fact those people.

And I'll tell you the truth- I missed you all badly. And I am glad to have found you again.

LEJ

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: _gargoyle
Date: 27 Oct 99 - 12:09 AM

Moonchild...if your had truly, "tuned in, turned on, and dropped out...." you Never would have been concerned about anything "that became popular."

It is the plastic "culture" which is "like a wind tossed wave."

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: WyoWoman
Date: 26 Oct 99 - 11:56 PM

Nah, Moonchild. It wasn't all for nothing. It was a wonderful time, and it continues to be -- just doesn't fit our pictures of how it was supposed to look. I think the Internet, and lovely folk like Max, are actually the hope of some sort of fruition of many of those dreams and visions.

It was also an awful time. I've thought of writing my memoirs from those years and calling it "Everything You Know is Wrong," because much of that time was like that for me. The values my parents so carefully inculcated me with were passe, much of the new set of values we were experimenting with didn't really work for me, and I often didn't have a clue what was right to do or even to want. And so much of it seemed to turn to shit before our very eyes.

But life is always like that. It's never clear-cut, never all one way. It's always a process of sorting out, winnowing, stumbling. We lurch toward Paradise, we never ride the bullet train. But we do keep moving ahead, poco a poco. And this gathering is at least some evidence that something lasting happened/is happening. Here we are, and this is outrageous. Unimaginable, and absolutely in its infancy.

Here's my credo, born in my Jimi-days and held in my heart: I stand for a bullshit-free world, where human beings treat each other with honesty and respect, where each of us dances according to the music that sings to us and shares what's in our hearts to share, and where we give thanks ceaselessly for the profound joy and delight of getting to be a human being.

Who stands with me?

I am Spartacus...

ww

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 26 Oct 99 - 10:23 PM

The salad bar was amazing Peter T. But I really didn't get to take advantage of it until the mid 70s.
Little Neo

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: bbelle
Date: 26 Oct 99 - 05:51 PM

Well ... I remember the 60's and early 70's and I smoked pot and engaged in free love and had long straight hair that I rolled in beer cans every night to make it straight and I believed the words of all the peace and love songs I used to play and I played in coffee houses and smoked cigaretts and drank coffee sweetened with honey and ate hash brownies and I was sent to a finishing school after college to learn to take shorthand because in order to get a job I had to type 90 words per minute and take shorthand at 120 words per minute and had wonderful boyfriends and we believed we were going to change the world and I marched across the 14th Street Bridge in Washington DC with a lighted candle for peace and I dodged tires and chicken shit on May Day 1970 trying to get to work and then everything changed and disco became popular and I decided it was all for nothing ... moonchild

Subject: RE: Explain the BS rules
From: Corwyn
Date: 26 Oct 99 - 05:25 PM

It's been said that you didn't live in the sixties if you remember them. If so, not only was I there, but I met Robert Burns! He may of told me to say hi to you all, but I can't remember.