BS: Alternative to Science??

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 05:22 AM

Well....maybe the 'concept' of God has been distorted by 'religion'...
God, however you conceive God to be, is regarded as God, as the origin of life. 'Religion', on the other hand, is trying to recruit people to be like-minded believers....usually to control them 'downward' sorta like 'guessing do-gooders'..but still guessing....perhaps those who have a profound respect, and hold in awe, the wonder of it all, and safeguarding their 'thought life' to preserve the information they receive as a result of their focus, are given greater sensitivities, to that dimension..and because of that are entrusted with even greater insights and power...being as they hold those things in high esteem!...Imagine what they could come into, to affect change, on this little ball spinning in space...both spiritually AND physically...especially if the information being received concerns not only life, but the very elements that make matter....and because of their focused respect for it all, ya' think they could be allowed to alter realities, to include more love...being as they also connect that as an element in the substance of life???

Ever considered that?

Beethoven was onto something....and it manifested itself into SOUND!

Next!

GfS

P.S. I am really sorry for you if you cannot conceive what I'm saying...if you can, stop fucking around and being obnoxious....the two side by side makes your manifestations mind numbingly boring!
No insult intended.

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 05:39 AM

Ever considered that?

I seldom have time to try to dissect the disconnected, inchoate ramblings of a madman, to be honest. Perhaps you could convey to me, in a sentence or two, what things I'm supposed to put side by side. Have a massive espresso then get back to me... :-)

Ps. Try real sentences. No insult intended. Irony, maybe.

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: BrendanB
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 06:12 AM

'You are fairly typical of the attack-mode type of believer who appears to feel threatened by atheists who state their views from the hip'

That is bloody silly. I am assuming that in your eyes anyone who disagrees with your views in this area is an 'attack -mode type of believer'. You are beginning to sound paranoid. I do believe that you have a closed mind but that is your problem, not mine.

I note you described yourself as a pagan in an earlier post. As the term pagan covers a variety of belief systems to which do you give allegiance?

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 07:09 AM

I said pagan because I have a sense of humour. Rediscover yours.

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: BrendanB
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 09:11 AM

I have. I'm laughing at you.

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: Stu
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 10:32 AM

"My enjoyment of art in all it's forms is not tempered by the artist's beliefs or lack of belief."

That's not such a good analogy about how you feel about science. The fundamental truth present in art is not the quantifiable, testable, observable truth that it is in science. Art in all its myriad forms represents our expression of the human (or animal, if the artist is a gorilla, for example) condition. It doesn't speak to us in absolutes.

Science, to a degree does, although any scientist worth their salt stands to be corrected when new evidence presents itself. For a scientist, moving on our knowledge of the who we are, where we're from and our place in the universe through reproducible research is the key motivation for what they do.

Imagination? Creativity? Science has all this, and more. A genuine sense of awe in the universe, and a desire to find our how and why it is as it is. Ethics? Morality? To think science doesn't struggle with these issues demonstrates a profound ignorance of what science is, and I've pontificated many times on this site on how science provides a solid moral standpoint more powerful and profound than any religion, as it's truly inclusive of all living beings. None of this 'dominion over all living things' arrogant, evil rubbish.

The scribblings of a band of desert tribesmen thousands of years ago are presented today as unquestionable fact, policies affecting the lives of billions are formulated on the writing of a people long lost to history. Accepting these writings as a fundamental truth to impose on the lives of those who don't think they represent the word of a 'God' is not really very nice.

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 12:08 PM

Excellent.

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: BrendanB
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 12:20 PM

I did not intend the sentence you quote to be an analogy about how I feel about science. I was trying to indicate that any beliefs I may have do not stop me from appreciating art in all its forms.   I also stated that that I am able to find delight in science, again, regardless of any beliefs I hold.
I am in agreement with the rest of your post although I hope that your last paragraph is not intended to suggest that I attempt to impose my beliefs on anyone. I don't; I find such attempts obnoxious - whether from those with a religious faith or with none.

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 12:54 PM

I was trying to indicate that any beliefs I may have do not stop me from appreciating art in all its forms.

Then I hope you can also accept that it is unsafe in the extreme to claim that the imagination, creativity and poetry of any art are driven, or significantly influenced, by religious faith. The most that could ever be claimed is that some art is inspired to be produced by religious subject matter. To claim any more than that would be to claim that you could read the minds of artists.

I'd add that commenting, no matter how directly, on people's religious beliefs in no way amounts to an attempt to impose anything. On the other hand, imposing religious belief on people is rife. It happens in every faith school. It even starts with the christening of tiny babies.

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: BrendanB
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 02:00 PM

I have never claimed to be able to read anyone's mind, I have been explicit about that in previous posts. Your post implies that I may be guilty of this. Why do you believe that you can read my mind?

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: Stringsinger
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 02:51 PM

Sugarfoot, I love it.

"The scribblings of a band of desert tribesmen thousands of years ago are presented today as unquestionable fact, policies affecting the lives of billions are formulated on the writing of a people long lost to history. Accepting these writings as a fundamental truth to impose on the lives of those who don't think they represent the word of a 'God' is not really very nice."

This is eloquently stated and as far as I'm concerned, the final word on the subject.

Religion should stay the hell out of science. That is so medieval!

To restate: the alternative to science is ignorance and the destruction of civilizations, despite the hydrogen bomb and weapons of warfare (many used incorporating religious views).

We live longer today because of science, not religion.

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 04:51 PM

Regardless of what you might think of the theological content, "scribblings of desert tribesmen" is an absurd characterization.

Is the Book of Job a mere "scribbling"? How about Ecclesiastes? How about the whole notion that human beings have overriding moral responsibilities regardless of wealth or social status?

Is there much early poetry more skillfully polished than the Psalms?

Scribblings (like "Surfin' Bird") aren't very interesting.

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 06:02 PM

"How about the whole notion that human beings have overriding moral responsibilities regardless of wealth or social status?"

It's comforting that that "whole notion" has a long pedigree. Interesting to note that it doesn't really require a belief in God though. We agnostics and atheists can embrace it quite comfortably.

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 06:24 PM

Not to suggest that the Old Testament invented "the whole notion" for everybody else, merely that it plays a significant role there.

That notion, however, is absent from, say, the Iliad and the Odyssey - which hardly count as scribblings either.

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 06:24 PM

Exactly, Shimrod. I refer back to the example of my friend, who lived a virtuous, non-religious life for the many decades I knew him, yet who was claimed so tastelessly by religion at his funeral because he'd been such a good chap. Lighter does appear to typify the attitude of so many believers that the "moral code" set by their own particular faith is the only one that is valid. Phooey! They'd better watch out just in case I invoke the devout catholicity of Sir Jimmy Savile...

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 06:52 PM

Steve, your dodge wasn't even a good one. It is obvious to anyone that you have an ax to grind....but you cannot differentiate between 'religion' and God. That's YOUR problem, not everyone elses.
..and the claim you couldn't understand my last post, is further indication that you'd rather claim stupidity than the ability to consider another person's.
My, you ARE blocked!!...no wonder intelligence evades you!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 06:55 PM

And you're pissed up. Or drugged. Or very upset by something. By the sound of it. You are a festering carbuncle on the arse of mudcat. Go away.

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 07:22 PM

So all ethics is interchangeably relative and artificial? Interesting.

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 08:11 PM

Ethics derive from the innate goodness of people, in which I actually retain some faith. If one should ever claim that ethics derive from some exterior, imposed source, religion for example, one is a liar and a scoundrel. The evidence is seriously stacked against that bogus claim. There is nothing more unethical than claiming that one's faith, acquired through nothing other than the accident of the place of one's birth, is the one true faith, a typical claim of both Christianity and Islam. Except, perhaps, for inflicting that faith on children, which major faiths are signally inclined to do and which many an ordinary, decent Christian, for example, is minded to justify. It ill behoves persons of faith to preach to non-believers about ethics, frankly. You might as well try to prove that, due to lack of belief, we're all thieves, rapists and murderers.

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 02:31 AM

So Steve, Do you have 'faith' that your resentment towards the unseen is indeed your religion???

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 04:02 AM

Hey Steve..(or anybody) read this carefully....and go back to Beethoven's quote...."Ludwig van Beethoven: The vibrations on the air are the breath of God speaking to man's soul. Music is the language of God. We musicians are as close to God as man can be. We hear his voice, we read his lips, we give birth to the children of God, who sing his praise. That's what musicians are."

Alternative to Science??..and lo and behold, from ABC News.........

...and then explain it all away, from your lack of experience!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: Musket
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 04:06 AM

If science could be seen as irreligious, then could religion be without the benefit of science?

Just a thought..

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 04:48 AM

""...and then explain it all away, from your lack of experience!""

You do have a certain amusement value "Guest from Sanatorium", but you are straying seriously off beam.

We don't have to prove or explain anything to you, science is its own explanation, tried and tested and always prepared to take on board new evidence.

Not so religion, dreams of heaven, or the hyperbole of an admittedly genius musician from a time when religion was almost compulsory.

No evidence, no willingness to consider any such, and a fixed and determined intention to make the facts fit the desired result.

In short the antithesis, not only of science, but also of common sense, established over millennia by MEN with nothing on their minds but a desire to control others.

Belief in a deity (designer)?.....OK, but that doesn't mean that he/she/it needs us to conform to the wishes of self appointed and self important control freaks, nor to pray to him/her/it for guidance or forgiveness.

That is akin to praying to the builder of one's pre war semi D.

Don T.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 05:19 AM

Well, Gusty, I looked at your link. As ever, one has to point out that witness is not evidence, any more than tradition, hearsay, ceremony, preachings, stories or suspect ancient manuscripts are. What nailed the silliness of the whole article for me was this:

Alexander said he is scientifically certain that his stricken brain could never have produced the images and ideas he experienced -- or remembered them.

"Scientifically certain", eh? The irony of that remark was totally lost on Alexander, eh? Not an awful lot to "explain away", then, really!

As for my alleged resentment towards the "unseen" (keep the Aunt Sallys coming - I love 'em!), how can I resent something for which there is no evidence and whose existence is so improbable?

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 05:51 AM

"How about the whole notion that human beings have overriding moral responsibilities regardless of wealth or social status?"

It would appear that this concept pre-dates Christianity by 100s of millenia. For 3 days this week there has been a 3 part series on BBC2 (British TV) called 'Prehistoric Autopsy' in which scientists attempted to reconstruct the lives, life-styles and appearances of 3 hominid species from their fossils. The middle episode was about the human ancestor, Homo erectus who lived in Africa several 100 thousand years ago (can't remember the exact date). A particular skull of this species was found to be toothless - and was deduced to have been toothless for some years before he/she died. The programme concluded that such an individual would have struggled to survive without the support of its fellows - prehistoric altruism long, long, long, long, long before the invention of religion. Did H. erectus have a religion? We'll never know, of course, but because H. erectus populations were probably widely dispersed and unable to communicate with each other it probably wasn't a universal religion like Christianity would be in that far, far, far future.

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: Stu
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 10:15 AM

"...and then explain it all away, from your lack of experience!"

This is hearsay, not evidence.

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 10:20 AM

Without meaning to undercut the tremendous significance of the H. erectus discovery, I think that it more likely suggests no more than the existence of love and loyalty to one's family members.

That would be a huge first step beyond animals, who care just for their young (and for a limited time), but it would be only the first step.

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: Stu
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 12:09 PM

"That would be a huge first step beyond animals, who care just for their young (and for a limited time)"

That comment comes across as anthropocentric arrogance, the kind displayed in the vile, evil, murderous . . .

"[1:26] Then God said, "Let us make humankind in our image, according to our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the wild animals of the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth."

. . .crap spouted at the start of the Bible. Whichever desert tribesman scribbled that bitter little bit of fiction is deserving of a whole heap of contempt and pity. Hmmm. Did He say 'us' back there? I copied this from the Vatican website.

Many animals have very strong extended family bonds and many care for juveniles evenn if they're not related i.e. meerkats, wolves. Animals are known to grieve (elephants, some corvids), laugh and have culture (many primates, some corvids), laugh, use and make tools (primates and corvids) and have the ability to recognised themselves indicating self-consciousness (apes and cetaceans). They have the ability to reason (many birds, some cephalopods), they sulk and throw tantrums (Orang-utans).

Given they show the gamut of emotions, I would suggest they can love too.

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 12:46 PM

Alternative to Science??

Hey, just ignore what the scientist witnessed...we got your opinion!!!

Stevie: "...As ever, one has to point out that witness is not evidence,.."

Yeah witnesses are not relevant... and being as you haven't witnessed ANYTHING, I guess your OPINION should be valued!...(what a self absorbed idiot!).

Think about it...but don't hurt yourself!

GfS

P.S. Come to think about it, go ahead, hurt yourself...there would be no effect whatsoever!

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: Musket
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 12:46 PM

In the beginning Man created god.

He then set out to try and understand the world around him. Lo! He said, I shall call this process science. And he saw that it was good. (Apart from the bits where he noted his science was capable of doing his bidding, then he remembered his other toy god, and thought, "They are both useful for the same end. No wonder I get confused.."

You could go on for hours, but why bother.....

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 12:59 PM

Musket, On another thread I posted this one..not unlike yours.."In the beginning God created man in his image and likeness..and ever since man has been trying to return the favor!"

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: BrendanB
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 01:34 PM

There is no intelligent alternative to science, certainly not religion. I do not understand the difficulty that some people have in recognising that some people can accommodate both.
With regard to the quotes from Genesis given above I am sure that thinking Christians recognise that the Old Testament does not represent a rule book or a history lesson. The creation myth that begins Genesis is a poetic way of expressing a belief in a creator, not a statement of fact. (I did say thinking Christians). There are some fairly hideous sections in the Old Testament. There are also some hideous elements in the histories of every country. For example, alleged witches were sentenced to state sponsored murder in both England and the USA. This should not be seen as defining modern Brits or Americans. I know there are people who believe that the Bible is factually true - there are also people who believe that the world is flat. Most Christians that I know demonstrate a rational approach to both their lives and their faith, they should not be judged as the same as the lunatic fringe.

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 02:01 PM

Near-death experiences (including those in which the patient was pronounced dead) have been recorded frequently.

What's interesting is that except in a very vague way they don't much resemble one another. Somebody sees heaven, somebody sees hell, somebody sees light, somebody sees a tunnel, somebody sees relatives, somebody sees himself dead, somebody sees friendly strangers, somebody hears a voice, somebody hears music, etc.

The inconsistencies don't prove anything, but neither do the similarities. The most encouraging thing is that most (though not all) of the witnesses say they felt good throughout the experience.

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 04:47 PM

Hey, just ignore what the scientist witnessed...we got your opinion!!!

Stevie: "...As ever, one has to point out that witness is not evidence,.."

Yeah witnesses are not relevant... and being as you haven't witnessed ANYTHING, I guess your OPINION should be valued!...(what a self absorbed idiot!).

Think about it...but don't hurt yourself!

Some scientist, eh, who can talk about being "scientifically certain." Heheh. You do know what science is, do you, Gustiferous One?

And bear in mind that I said witness, an abstract noun, not "witnesses." I've witnessed all sorts of things in my life, but only for some of those witnessed events could I provide evidence. That would be on several levels: did anyone else witness it who could corroborate? Was that person independent? Have I got peer-reviewed documentary evidence? Could I get you to repeat my witnessed experience with the same result? Did I get photos or video??

I saw ball lightning once. I was sober and the atmospheric conditions were, allegedly I discovered later, just right. But I was on my own when I saw it. It was in the wee small hours and no-one else was out of bed. I checked with the neighbours next day. I was on my own. No photos, no video. I can give you a very vivid description if you like. I'm certain of what I saw. I wasn't looking for an experience. I was outside trying to get my cat in. I've eliminated all other alternative possibilities. But all I have to offer is witness. I would not ask you to believe me. What I have is conviction (cf. faith) but what I don't have is evidence (cf. faith). So I'm not going to publish my story in a popular faux-science mag (unlike yer man, who went public in a rather dubious publication that is possibly, for all I know, owned and run by a bunch of evangelical types). My mate told me he'd seen a tornado over my part of north Cornwall. Tornados over north Cornwall are like rocking-horse shit. But my mate had his cheapie camera in his pocket and he took a picture. It's a brilliant picture. There is no doubt that it is a picture of a tornado. I can recognise the buildings in the pic as belonging to my farmer neighbours. Right-click on it and it tells you the date and time, and I can check the weather conditions for that afternoon, and they fit. Now that's evidence. Not truth, but good evidence. Have a think about all that, Gusty. I'm so glad to be of use in your continuing education about what science is about.

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 05:00 PM

There is no intelligent alternative to science, certainly not religion. I do not understand the difficulty that some people have in recognising that some people can accommodate both.

Well, I recognise that many people happily accommodate both. That is hardly the issue. What's slightly more difficult is understanding how the self-same people who can happily embrace the rigour of evidence-requirement in science can suspend the need for evidence so completely when it comes to religious belief. That is so wacky that it's no wonder that rational people regard religious belief as deluded.

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 07:49 PM

For dubious publication, read dubious dumbing-down website.

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 08:19 PM

There are also some hideous elements in the histories of every country. For example, alleged witches were sentenced to state sponsored murder in both England and the USA. This should not be seen as defining modern Brits or Americans.

Hmm. Well, my family comes from Pendle in Lancashire. I took my mum for a drive round Pendle last week as it happens. Beautiful country it is, the north of England's best-kept secret. The "witches" from there who were executed a few hundred years ago were hounded by Christians. The church at Newchurch-in-Pendle, the graveyard of which contains burials of many of the witches' families, still has a huge eye sculpted on the tower to ward off evil spirits. The rabid antisemitism that gained currency in the late 19th century in Europe (thanks a lot, Wagner), and which culminated in the Holocaust, was connived in very consistently by the Catholic church. Pius XII (now up for sainthood) knowingly oversaw the removal by the Nazis of a thousand Jews from the Vatican to death camps and facilitated the escape to south America of Nazi war criminals at the end of the war. The Church was silent about Hitler and did dirty deals with Mussolini. There is institutional covering-up of child abuse in the Church that has been going on for decades and which continues to this very day. Your history is more modern than you seem to think, but it doesn't define modern Brits and Americans. It defines, if it defines anyone at all, modern Brit and American Christianity. Unfortunately, it seems that few adherents of such choose to vote with their feet.

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 08:33 PM

***************************NEWS ALERT***************************

Romney, if elected, will introduce legislation requiring the planet
to quit warming...

*************************Details @ 11***************************

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 08:47 PM

This is no time for any git to come on here talking sense, Bobert old chap!

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 08:49 PM

Stevie: "Insult intended"

Yup..had it pegged.....block-headed ignorance IS his religion....and it's still not the same thing as faith. His fingers must be worn out typing all that crap.
Hey Steve, maybe you're feeling guilty because you are confusing a 'religious experience' with some bad memories when growing up in a bogus church.
That's not to say that the thought of it all has escaped you.
I'm not a 'church person'....nor was Beethoven a religious kook.

I can see it now....Stevie laying on the floor, feet up on the couch, his hand down his whitey tighties, firmly gripping the volcano, while the other hand digging in the pumpkin, looking for his lost hat.....reading a quote from Beethoven, panting frantically...."No no, no...Say it's not true, it's not true, it's not true, it's not true he couldn't have..no, no, it's not true, it's not true....(groan)...ahhh.... NOOOOOOO...ahhhhhhhhhhh!!!....ooh God!!!

Oops, what did I say? ....I've been SAVED!!!!...(again).

GfS

If you really want to discuss it seriously...scientifically, let me know. Your rants are too frantically psychotic to take seriously.
Speaking of science...I've got a link that should blow your mind...might even make you THINK....

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 08:57 PM

The sheer erudition of your contributions has me positively cowering, intellectually defeated natch, in a scruffy corner. How can you be so clever? So...clear-headed?

You've got a link? Wow! But why threaten me with it? Give us yer bloody link, man!

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 09:08 PM

Watch ALL 7 parts...with an open mind..pay attention to the latter part when they say that what they discovered, has opened up a whole new field of science...that is if you are really interested in science.
In this video, the scientists say, flat out, that what they have discovered (and you'll hear him say it) is "where science and the spiritual come together in a most profound way".
I posted this before for you, but you blew it off thinking you knew everything about it...but it is plainly clear, that you could learn something.
Whether you care to has always been open for debate...

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 09:08 PM

Links and truth don't mix here, Steve... There are thousands of wacko right winger being paid to turn chicken shit into chicken salad and the inter net is filled with them... Might of fact, if you Google anything slightly "political" they will take over the first 2 million pages of your search... This is big $$$ and Boss Hog is out to misinform 'cause if 'nwhen the woekin' man figures it out he'll fuck Boss Hog up...

That's the way it is...

Yeah, Boss Hog, like all the Boss Hogs before him will maintain control and power until that day when he's run out of time...

Bad mouthing science is in today... We see Italy convicting scientists for not predicting earthquakes.... But times change... The right wing, be it here or Pakistan, has things dialed up prudy good for them right now but they are running out of time...

Science exists... The truth exists... Humanity exists... Folks like Hitler and Romney can fool the people some of the time but science and knowledge and change will prevail...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 09:11 PM

Leave it to Bobert to go off course and talk politics.....which by its nature has NOTHING to do with truth!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 09:28 PM

Alternative to science, GfinS???

It's politics, dude... It's politics...

The Koch brothers want to poison yer water and pollute yer air...

It's politics...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 09:40 PM

BTW, my son's mother's late father - my late father-in-law - was a so-called expert on science... Not too sure how he became an "expert" 'cause all he had was a BS in "horticulture" from Cornell (no, not that Cornell) College in Iowa...

He somehow became the "expert" and was hired by API (American Petroleum Institute), a K-Street lobby...

So after the Exxon Valdez he was sent to "The Hill" to testify about the oil that was dumped on Alaska as "the expert" and the underlying theme of what he had to say was...

..."Don't worry, be happy..."

This is what science has become... Liars... Fakes... Snake-oil salesmen... So-called scientists... Paid crooks... Hit men... Thugs, goons and idiots...

Ya'll can talk as much slternatives as ya'll like... No matter... Until we get to a point where we accept that the Earth revolves around the sun we aren't all that different than the apes in "2001, A Space Oddesy"....

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 10:49 PM

> Pius...knowingly oversaw the removal by the Nazis of a thousand Jews from the Vatican to death camps and facilitated the escape to south America of Nazi war criminals at the end of the war.

Evidence for these claims?

Not even Wikipedia seems to support them. Were there ever 1000 Jews in Vatican City? That would be roughly equal to the entire 1940 population.

Some Catholic clergy aided escaping Nazis for reasons of their own, but there is no evidence that the Pope did so or knew about their activities.

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 02:07 AM

Bobert: "This is what science has become... Liars... Fakes... Snake-oil salesmen... So-called scientists... Paid crooks... Hit men... Thugs, goons and idiots..."

AND... "Alternative to science, GfinS???
It's politics, dude... It's politics..."

And somehow they are going hand in hand, and both are 'paid crooks'.

As for me, I'll dial into 'Galactic Central' via the 'Inter-Galactic Space Telephone'.....and stay tuned in. This other crap is too silly to even consider!...Fortunately it's only polluting this dimension!!

Regards, Ol' Bud,

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 03:58 AM

"What's slightly more difficult is understanding how the self-same people who can happily embrace the rigour of evidence-requirement in science can suspend the need for evidence so completely when it comes to religious belief."

Exactly, Steve! I wonder about that all the time.

And yes, Bobert, I agree with you - it is all about politics.

And GUEST,GfS I haven't got the faintest clue what you're talking about!

Subject: RE: BS: Alternative to Science??
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 05:15 AM

The amazing thing, Shimrod, is that he thinks we're supposed to understand him.