BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.

Subject: BS: Joe is making the case.
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 11 Oct 12 - 10:03 PM

Smiling and politely calling out the lies. That is what we need!! Joe speaking truth to liar!

Subject: RE: BS: Joe is making the case.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Oct 12 - 10:13 PM

Eh, what? Where?

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Oct 12 - 10:23 PM

Well, Ryan has his Party Line down very well. I think I prefer Biden, who's unafraid to think for himself.
Can't say either one has been particularly polite or gentlemanly. The last Presidential debate was far more civil.
I really liked the one of the last questions about the negativity of the campaign, and whether the candidates were embarrassed about that. Too bad the candidates didn't answer.
In general, I'd say that Ryan sounded like a Tea Party apparatchik, and Biden sounded like he knew what he was talking about.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: GUEST,mando-player-91
Date: 11 Oct 12 - 10:33 PM

Joe Biden is the man.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: Jeri
Date: 11 Oct 12 - 10:35 PM

Ryan's smarm factor is off the chart. He sounds like he's playing some role, involving him being the patient, superior adult talking to children... which would turn me off even if I agreed with what he was trying to say.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 11 Oct 12 - 10:41 PM

I think Biden clearly pointed out the BS and changed positions. It is Extremely hard to call a man a liar 40 or 50 times without appearing to be very rude. I think that Joe did that. He used facts and charm to do that. Great performance for Joe.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: GUEST,David
Date: 11 Oct 12 - 11:52 PM

Agreeing or disagreeing with the Vice President's positions aside, is this what now passes in America as "polite" and "charming"? I thought he was just as rude and juvenile in his behavior as Romney was last week, no actually, this was worse. All those faces and eye rolling and exasperated sighs. Obviously he was going for the teenage vote. Maybe we should have Judge Judy moderate future debates.

Getting old...
David E.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Oct 12 - 12:13 AM

Can we agree that Martha Raddatz was masterful?

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Oct 12 - 12:14 AM

Romney did all of those things last week and he bullied an old man, the moderator. I'm seeing the so called liberal media complaining about Romney-like behavior from Biden. When Romney did it he was "passionate" and "aggressive" and "ready." When President Obama stuck to the issues and patiently made his case he was "lackluster", "tired" & "unprepared." I'm thinking the fix is in. But again Joe pointed out about 40 lies without saying "liar" or even "untrue". That's as much a break as we can expect.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Oct 12 - 12:15 AM

No, she was a little better than Leher, but there is no way to excel in that job.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Oct 12 - 02:57 AM

In my opinion, she kept control, even when she had to wrest it back, which she did swiftly and effectively. Another person - and I DO like Jim Lehrer, just not in that role - could easily have lost it. She also asked some excellent questions, including the question of abortion.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Oct 12 - 09:13 AM

Boy oh boy, did Biden ever put a butt whup on the kid... Didja see how much water the kid drank??? I mean, he musta gone thru a gallon or two of water... He was sweating bullets...

Hope Obama was watching 'cause this is how it is done...

BTW, watch for a bump from Biden's victory...

B~ (on the road in Richmond)

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: Elmore
Date: 12 Oct 12 - 10:12 AM

Biden did a fine job. My wife met him at a campaign breakfast, and says he's the real deal; a liberal democrat.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: Charley Noble
Date: 12 Oct 12 - 10:23 AM

Martha Raddatz did an excellent job as moderator, and with regard to experience in Afghanistan, hers exceeds both candidates put together by a factor of ten.

Ryan did a good job with a bad hand for his Party. Biden did a masterful job with his facts and experience, and humor. Keep 'em on the run!

Charley Noble, back in Maine

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: Arkie
Date: 12 Oct 12 - 10:23 AM

Regarding Biden's smiles, eye-rolling etc., they seemed like natural reactions to outright lies and misinformation. They were signals to the audience and I can see where someone might want to dismiss them. I thought Joe to be very polite, though he did interrupt a bit. And I know what malarkey means. Joe was great. He may have tired a bit at the end and Ryan stuck to his speeches. I was impressed when he said that his ticket would not blame others for their failures. The big like among many. All the campaign has done is blame someone else for Party failures and this campaign is about cleaning up the horrible mess left by years of Republican leadership. And the Republican congress has openly admitted that their goal was make Obama a one term president. And they have done their best to block any effort to improve on the economic situation that citizens face. One of the advantages of wealth is that you can endure the hard times, while others suffer, and hopefully wear down the little folk to where they appreciate those who are born to rule.

Favorite Tweet: 9-1-1 - Help. There's an old man beating a kid on TV.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Oct 12 - 11:46 AM

Please, Elmore, not a liberal democrat. Look at the mess they have helped make in the UK.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 12 Oct 12 - 12:31 PM

You guys saw a different debate from the one I saw.
I saw a Joe Biden who began the debate with a most disingenuous (I'd call it a lie) answer about the administration's time-line and rationale for the Benghazi debacle. Obviously the buck doesn't stop with them...it stops at a different place each day.
I saw a cheshire cat, who smirked and chuckled his way through the debate...a sign of weakness in my opinion, a sign disrespect according to David Gergen and other pundits...and interrupting Ryan numerous times.
Whatever good Biden might have done himself in his answers, he undid himself by his boorish demeanor.
JotSC

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Oct 12 - 12:51 PM

Yep, I get it JotSC, Romney's, smiling and interrupting and bullying of the moderator was passion and preparedness, Joe Biden's was "boorishness."

When President Obama, politely let the would be liar in chief rattle off whopper after whopper, he was rolling over and according to NBC's "chief political analyst," Chuck Todd and other, showing us that he no longer wanted to be President.


Sigh............

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: Arkie
Date: 12 Oct 12 - 01:10 PM

Honesty. That's what Ryan brings to the campaign. At least that is what he says. Since practically everything else he has said has been a lie in various forms, I assume that is one more of his lies.

Since this Republican campaign is based upon the false premise that Obama has failed and that the country is in worse condition that when he took office I more or less expected a campaign based upon falsehood and deception.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Oct 12 - 03:47 PM

Paul Ryan.

The Lyin' King.

Don Firth

P. S. I'm hoping Obama takes a clue from Biden for his next debate with Romney and goes for the throat. "Polite" ain't gonna work against these folks!

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 12 Oct 12 - 04:12 PM

FOX News viewers saw exactly the debate Fox News told them to.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: Charley Noble
Date: 12 Oct 12 - 05:19 PM

"the Benghazi debacle"???

Lots of luck, Republicans, raising this incident to the level of a major international crisis. Yes, the incident is unfortunate, and perhaps measures might have been taken to make the Embassy better able to resist the attack. But this incident does not rise (or sink) to the level of what George W. Bush did to engage us in Iraq, nor do the costs in terms of loss of international integrity seem at all comparable. And overall, the Obama Administration has made the right calls with regard to intervention in Libya. And it is the militants in the Benghazi area who are now on the run, not our Embassy staff.

One wonders what Ryan and Romney would actually do with regard to intervening in Syria, a considerably more complex set of issues.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: GUEST,999
Date: 12 Oct 12 - 05:34 PM

"One wonders what Ryan and Romney would actually do with regard to intervening in Syria, a considerably more complex set of issues."

They would do exactly as the industrialists told them to do.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Oct 12 - 05:35 PM

Romney already said he would arm the insurgents.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: Ed T
Date: 12 Oct 12 - 05:44 PM

Comparing it to a boxing match:

I saw a lot of close in fighting, body punches, head butts and clinches, a bit of "rope a dope".

I saw very little strategic jabbing, no decisive or interesting power punches thrown, and very little footwork. The referee did an ok job keeping them apart and fighting, considering the fighting styles.

IMO, it was close to a draw, thus the different views on who won. It was not a good spectator match and was the kind of fight that was not memorable, though people were eager for a "home town" win.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: Ed T
Date: 12 Oct 12 - 05:48 PM

In the match that I saw, my assessment is that either does not have "knock out power".

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: Jeri
Date: 12 Oct 12 - 05:50 PM

Heard on some news channel today: [something along the lines of] Biden was who Democrats wanted Obama to be.

There's a time for mincing of words, but there's no respect from Republicans, and it's about damn time liars are called liars. I thought the non-verbal comments were at least as good as the verbal ones.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: gnu
Date: 12 Oct 12 - 05:56 PM

Just watched it on You Tube. So far, if Romney and Ryan prevail in this election, Yanks are too lazy to watch these debates or inform themselves or vote.

Joe tore that little pup a new asshole in my books. A 42 year old teenager who don't know squat and spouts idiotic crap and won't answer a direct question? WHEN ASKED TWICE because he didn't answer it the first time?

Cat'lic? Ryan? He doesn't even come close. I am ashamed for him and for how some people must view Cat'lics after watching that insolent little turd say he is a true Cat'lic. What I am REALLY upset about is when he said you can't separate the candidate from his religious beliefs... his boss is a Mormon. As a Cat'lic, how can he say that Mitt should run the USA? Logic dictates that he should smite Mitt. No?

Did I miss something?

I mean, besides the fact that Biden kicked his sorry ass. It was embarrassing, to say the least.

I said it before... I hope you Yanks get yer shit together because the rest of us are gettin nervous.

Oliver Cromwell said he never met an Irishman that he couldn't pay to roast another on a spit... one of them is running for VP of the USA, the two-faced Lyin Ryan. Smarmy (that post has disappeared, I think?)? That twit is beyond "smarmy", gone past liar and is on his way to be in pergatory for eternity. Not to hell... that would be too good for that little crook. Sorry, but I am upset at his representation of himself as a Cat'lic. I ain't all that religious but that was TOO much.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Oct 12 - 08:06 PM

Question: How many gallons of water did Ryan drink???

I mean, lets get real here... Big Media was all over Obama's body language... Why not Ryan's???

B~ (on the road)

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: Charley Noble
Date: 12 Oct 12 - 08:16 PM

Bobert

"How many gallons of water did Ryan drink???"

You are being unfair. Ryan was only sipping his glass of water. It's his soul you should be worried about: is it half empty or half full?

Jeri-

"There's a time for mincing of words, but there's no respect from Republicans, and it's about damn time liars are called liars."

Ayup!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: gnu
Date: 12 Oct 12 - 09:33 PM

And I hear the various media saying, "They each "held their own."... wtf? Joe Biden for the next president of the Good Old USA (if you read the "Tuesday" thread you understand). Yeah, if I was a Yank, I would vote for him... in a heartbeat.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Oct 12 - 09:40 PM

I saw one headline which said over 54 million people watched last night's debate. I hope a good share were from the US.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: GUEST,songbob
Date: 12 Oct 12 - 10:14 PM

" Ryan was only sipping his glass of water. It's his soul you should be worried about: is it half empty or half full?

Actually, I prefer the engineer's answer to the "glass half full/empty" question -- "The glass is larger than it needs to be."

Ryan is far too large for his soul.


Bob

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: Songwronger
Date: 12 Oct 12 - 10:40 PM

Joe Biden is insane. His manic behavior demonstrated that in spades--mugging for the camera and laughing when his opponent was talking about literal life and death issues. It's spooky to think that a man who's "a heartbeat away from the presidency" could behave like that.

They both lied, of course, but then you'd expect them to.

The moderator was obviously siding with Biden, but I wish she had talked about the nature of fascism. Both of those candidates are fascists. Biden's home state is the center of the credit card industry in the U.S. Delaware has no usury control to speak of, so that's why your credit card rates have 30% interest rates. Biden helped make that happen. He's a fascist.

I guess watching debates like that is better for your brain than watching pro wrestling, but not much. I heard a radio ad today promoting Obama vs Romney 2. Made it sound exactly like some wrestling rematch.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: EBarnacle
Date: 12 Oct 12 - 10:49 PM

OK, I'll bite. What have credit card rates to do with Fascism?

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: gnu
Date: 12 Oct 12 - 11:49 PM

Dunno how I got to
here from there, but after reading a post above I had to get back to reality. That link is to Part Two of the Festival.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: Stringsinger
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 07:00 AM

On the issue of "good manners" in a debate of this nature, derision of false ideas is called for without impugning the character of the opponent. I think Biden did this very well. He should laugh derisively at the nonsense that Ryan was parroting. He was cordial and polite to Ryan when not debating.

You can like the other person and at the same time think his/her ideas really stink and
are laughable.

Biden (in Lakoff's terms) showed a nurturing compassion for the middle class suffering and presented a moral point of view in contrast to Ryan's authoritarian babbling, mostly misinformation and downright lies.

Afghanistan was treated by Biden with his personal views in a serious manner by saying we need to be out by 1214 and hand the country back to its government.

Ryan equivocated on this issue suggesting a continuation of that war.

Biden, whether you agree with him or not, came off as a real person and reacted accordingly to the rehearsed Ryan speech. Ryan came off as a used car salesman with no passion or compassion in his speech. He was Ayn Rand cold as ice.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: Ed T
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 09:07 AM

""This is a big fucking deal!"" --Joe Biden, caught on an open mic congratulating President Barack Obama during the health care signing ceremony, Washington, D.C., March 23, 2010.

Finally, a politician who speaks my kinda language - it could not be clearer :)

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: GUEST,nobody in particular
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 05:37 PM

Let's take a look-see

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: Charley Noble
Date: 13 Oct 12 - 08:55 PM

Guest, nobody in particular et al-

Why should anyone pay any attention to a link from an anonymous guest? Is it because you have no credibility, or is it because the link has none?

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Oct 12 - 06:09 AM

Anybody looked up Joel B. Pollack? He appears to be a complete nutjob who does not even know what the word "lie" means.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: gnu
Date: 14 Oct 12 - 02:55 PM

Yes, it appears so.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 14 Oct 12 - 03:44 PM

Breitbart.com...
Same Breitbart who pulled the ACORN scam.
Same Breitbart who pushed the heavily edited Shirley
Sherrod video clips.
And we should trust Breitbart why?

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Oct 12 - 04:34 PM

Because he's a TeaPublican icon, that's why. And a real piece of crap.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: gnu
Date: 14 Oct 12 - 05:46 PM

Tou mean there are T-shirts that are not?

Yeah. But I don't think it's too far. I think it's bang on the money.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: GUEST,nobody in particular
Date: 14 Oct 12 - 07:39 PM

Mr. Noble, If you were delivered a newspaper, would you disregard the news in it, because you didn't know the newspaper boy who delivered the paper??

To all the others, check with any other fact checkers, and you will find that Biden was sorely in error when dealing with the truth. He was massively misleading, unless of course you are already predisposed to believing the nonsense he was peddling.
His lying during the debates is all over the news. Even the political spinners are having problems justifying his 'misstatements'.
And that is the truth.
That is not saying Ryan was completely honest either, but come on, that is no excuse to be a gullible pimple on the butt of your political preference!!

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 14 Oct 12 - 07:53 PM

Bullshit from Breitbart.
Talk about a gullible pimple.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: GUEST,nobody in particular
Date: 14 Oct 12 - 09:03 PM

OKAY, pick another fact checker.It is well known the
Biden voted in favour of the two wars that he claimed he didn't, as well as the embassy lies he told, as to who knew what when.
What is the point in going along with deception, and then claiming to be the 'good guys'? A lie is a lie is a lie!~ unless you enjoy wallowing in them. With the Obama administration there has just been too many of them. Guantanamo, is it still open and populated?? about the State Department lie he told, in regards to the embassy.Cut the budget in half?? and the unemployment figures are a farce, I'm surprised Ryan didn't call him on it, as he could have. I would think that if their political base held them accountable to telling the truth, they might just do it, but telling such blatant lies is only going to hurt them and their chances of being re-elected. Is that what you want? The Republicans are having a field day with this. If you want to win you can't be giving up so much ground by telling such easy to detect lies! At least, if you're going to lie, don't be so obvious that you are!!!
Even today 'giving tribute' to Hillary Clinton, as a way of doing damage control, for blaming her and the State Department for the debacle. On Yahoo news opening page it has a story of a feud developing between the Clintons and Obama. If Obama loses support of the Democrats who like Hillary, he might as well kiss his re-election good-bye!
I did not post anything that was in error. This story is only going to get worse, unless somebody owns up to the truth, because right now as it is, Obama and Biden are completely vulnerable to being exposed at the liars that they are accusing others of being, and THAT will lose them ANY credibility they might have left, even to their supporters.
And if you support their false statements, YOU will lose your credibility as well!

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: GUEST,nobody in particular
Date: 14 Oct 12 - 10:43 PM

and another thing, can anyone explain WHAT his policies are??
He keeps saying "I need four more years". Maybe HE does, but do the American people need four more years of him if he doesn't explain what he wants to do, and how he wishes to accomplish it.
That is, if you can believe him THIS TIME!

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: gnu
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 04:34 PM

nobody... anyone can, including you, by reading what's gone on, goin on and is gonna go on. You have internut access... you can READ all about it, which is why I find such posts disingenuous. If you wish to discuss certain policies or non-policies, do so, but that question is simply bullshit. Do your homework. Otherwise, you might sound like a troll begging a fight.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: akenaton
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 04:57 PM

I think gnu must have slept with a troll one night when he was pissed :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: gnu
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 05:04 PM

No, but that that certainly seems like a troll thing for you to say. Not the first time I have had that observation. Like I said before, I don't like you. I think you are a nasty person.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: pdq
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 05:48 PM

akenation is one of the truly nice people here on Mudcat.

The fact that he is disillusioned by the failures of his beloved Left means he is unlikely to parrot their talking points.

The biggest problem at Mudcat is the obscession with attacking people for their opinions, rather than countering the opinions.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 07:48 PM

Ake ain't no leftest... He is an ol' commie or something that has little or no bearing on the cyurrent left...

As for Biden???

The people calling him a liar are the very same people who think that Mitt Romney, who is so far removed from reality that he lies out of lack of touch to core values, is some kinda hero who will remove a black man from ***their*** whites only house...

If Obama were white he'd be at 62-38 in the polls...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: gnu
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 08:58 PM

"The biggest problem at Mudcat is the obscession with attacking people for their opinions, rather than countering the opinions."

No, it is NOT. It is inane posts baiting and simply pissing people off. People are never attacked for their opinions unless they deserve it because their opinions include intolerence... only for their poor behaviour. Both are unacceptable.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 16 Oct 12 - 12:43 PM

No the biggest problem on the Mudcat is people coming here thinking they can change other people's minds.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: gnu
Date: 16 Oct 12 - 01:58 PM

I retract that last post. All of the problems are big. My bad.

And, once again, I admire Max's dedication to free speech with only one rule... and it does deal with "attacks". I obviously misspoke... misposted?.. misinterpreted is a given. Apologies.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 16 Oct 12 - 02:48 PM

My last post was partly in jest. But a lot of the strife here is from proselytizing.

Subject: RE: BS: Joe (Biden) is making the case.
From: gnu
Date: 16 Oct 12 - 04:07 PM

Yes, JtS, it sure is. Especially when it goes on for thousands of posts over numerous threads.