Copyright status on some lullabies

Subject: Copyright status on some lullabies
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 05 Nov 12 - 07:58 PM

This is for the lullaby cd for traumatized children. I know I should do a search myself but I am very short of time and perhaps others have researched these already...could you please let me know if there are copyright holders, legitimate ones, not ones that changed a few words and stole the songs...well, tell me about those too. Please and thank you.

ar hyd y nos
wind of western sea
October winds
lavendar blue
coulter's candy
ban breen (one Paddy sang at Rainycamp)
snow one (David, this is the one you sang at Rainycamp)
baloo balerie
Oh..the Russian one about blue skies...I a pretty sure there would be by our rules but perhaps they ahve different rules.

Subject: RE: Copyright status on some lullabies
From: Bert
Date: 05 Nov 12 - 08:37 PM

Not an answer to your question, but you might be interested in Terry Woodford's work with lullabies. Here

Subject: RE: Copyright status on some lullabies
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 06 Nov 12 - 04:43 AM

from This thread:
The tune was first recorded in the Musical Relics Of The Welsh Bards (c. 1784). The Welsh words are by the prolific poet John Ceiriog Hughes (1832-1887).

So clearly words & music both out of copyright (UK Rules)

Sweet & Low (wind of the westen sea) words by Alfred Lord Tennyson (d.1892) so the words at least are out of copyright.

Subject: RE: Copyright status on some lullabies
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 06 Nov 12 - 04:55 AM

This Messgae Lists the contents of the popular Sheet Music archive, with the assumption that anything therein is out of copyright.
Sweet And Low is on that list, so, presumably, out of copyright.

Subject: RE: Copyright status on some lullabies
From: MMario
Date: 06 Nov 12 - 05:29 AM

Lavender Blue is another out of copyright.

Subject: RE: Copyright status on some lullabies
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Nov 12 - 12:05 PM

Baloo baleerie (Bressay Lullaby) "was collected in 1951 by the American folklorist Alan Lomax from a recording in the BBC Glasgow archives made on January 22, 1949 on the Shetland island of Bressay. An English version "Go Away, Little Fairies" has been published" [Carlin, Richard, 1985, The Lullaby Book, Amsco Publications].
Above from Wikipedia.

I would guess that the Carlin translation is copyright, and I would suspect that anything published by Alan Lomax is copyright.

I had heard this song on a recording recently (Twinkle Trax; this recording also presumably copyright), and looked for information.

Yes, I know this doesn't answer the question; but the above may interest lullaby collectors.

Subject: RE: Copyright status on some lullabies
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 06 Nov 12 - 01:06 PM

Thanks..bad news about Baloo Baleerie..that is one of the key songs...but I suspect it is much older...mg

Subject: RE: Copyright status on some lullabies
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 06 Nov 12 - 01:36 PM

MG, I think I learned 'Baloo Baleerie' and 'Lavender's Blue' from the book 'Folk Songs of England, Ireland, Scotland & Wales' by William Cole.

That's pretty famous book, and your local library may have it. You could look up the lullabies in it and see if they are public domain or not.

I have a Lutheran hymnal with Ar Hyd a Nos in it, and the only credit they give is "Welsh". That has to mean it's public domain, because in other cases they list copyright data.

Subject: RE: Copyright status on some lullabies
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Nov 12 - 01:48 PM

I can't quite envisage why the copyright status of any lullaby could be relevant when it is being sung in a situation that is appropriate to lullabies.

Subject: RE: Copyright status on some lullabies
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 06 Nov 12 - 02:04 PM

It is to produce a CD that is infinitely copyable so we can not have any chance of lawyers coming after us because someone copyrighted rockaby baby..which they would have probably stolen from public ownership unless ownership is known. mg

Subject: RE: Copyright status on some lullabies
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 06 Nov 12 - 03:09 PM

Does anyone have this Cole book and would you be able to check out the copyright status? What I saw from googling the book said Trad, with a Namouth?? listed after trad...

Does anyone know what year the Cole book was published?

Subject: RE: Copyright status on some lullabies
From: Jack Campin
Date: 06 Nov 12 - 03:43 PM

Google finds a reference to Cole's book as published by Hansen in 1961.

Subject: RE: Copyright status on Coulter's Candy
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Dec 13 - 07:54 PM

Please respond to Dianna Genning at:

[e-mail]

I've written a book. It will soon be available. I need to know if Coulter's Candy is in the public domain.

Thank you.

Subject: RE: Copyright status on some lullabies
From: Jack Campin
Date: 10 Dec 13 - 08:00 PM

Look it up in Ewan McVicar's "Doh Ray Me When I Was Wee". There is a chapter on it. The story is not at all straightforward.

Subject: RE: Copyright status on some lullabies
From: Howard Jones
Date: 11 Dec 13 - 04:38 AM

You probably need a Limited Manufacture licence from MCPS, this will cover royalties for any copyright works and shouldn't be very expensive. Or if you send them your track list with as much information as you know they will tell you what royalties, if any, are due, which might work out even cheaper if most are non-copyright. If they're all non-copyright you won't pay anything.

Subject: RE: Copyright status on some lullabies
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Dec 13 - 01:25 PM

Baloo Baleerie- Several sites show or list sheet music labelled "Traditional," also a choral arrangement. But be careful of copyright adaptations and arrangements.

Coulter's Candy was written by Robert Coltard, 1832-1880 (Song also called Ally bally bee). See Wikipedia.

Subject: RE: Copyright status on some lullabies
From: Jim McLean
Date: 11 Dec 13 - 01:41 PM

Sean McCarthy, the Irish folk song writer, once apologised to me for stealing my tune Coulter's Candy. I didn't enlighten him, just let him buy me a few drinks!