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BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012

Jack the Sailor 19 Dec 12 - 05:20 PM
gnu 19 Dec 12 - 05:27 PM
Henry Krinkle 19 Dec 12 - 05:31 PM
bobad 19 Dec 12 - 05:36 PM
Henry Krinkle 19 Dec 12 - 05:39 PM
Henry Krinkle 19 Dec 12 - 05:52 PM
Richard Bridge 19 Dec 12 - 05:55 PM
Bobert 19 Dec 12 - 05:58 PM
Ron Davies 19 Dec 12 - 05:59 PM
Henry Krinkle 19 Dec 12 - 06:01 PM
Jack the Sailor 19 Dec 12 - 06:32 PM
Ron Davies 19 Dec 12 - 06:35 PM
Henry Krinkle 19 Dec 12 - 06:37 PM
bobad 19 Dec 12 - 06:38 PM
Henry Krinkle 19 Dec 12 - 06:44 PM
Amergin 19 Dec 12 - 07:07 PM
Amos 19 Dec 12 - 08:41 PM
Stilly River Sage 19 Dec 12 - 09:00 PM
Ron Davies 20 Dec 12 - 12:06 AM
Ron Davies 20 Dec 12 - 12:10 AM
Ebbie 20 Dec 12 - 01:27 AM
GUEST,999 20 Dec 12 - 09:58 AM
Jack the Sailor 20 Dec 12 - 10:47 AM
Amos 20 Dec 12 - 10:59 AM
Bobert 20 Dec 12 - 11:27 AM
GUEST,999 20 Dec 12 - 11:54 AM
Jim McLean 20 Dec 12 - 12:27 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 20 Dec 12 - 12:39 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 20 Dec 12 - 12:45 PM
Pete Jennings 20 Dec 12 - 01:15 PM
Jack the Sailor 20 Dec 12 - 01:19 PM
Jack the Sailor 20 Dec 12 - 01:29 PM
Greg F. 20 Dec 12 - 01:39 PM
Dave the Gnome 20 Dec 12 - 01:50 PM
Jack the Sailor 20 Dec 12 - 01:53 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 20 Dec 12 - 01:54 PM
Greg F. 20 Dec 12 - 02:06 PM
gnu 20 Dec 12 - 02:07 PM
Jack the Sailor 20 Dec 12 - 02:10 PM
Jack the Sailor 20 Dec 12 - 02:11 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 20 Dec 12 - 02:18 PM
Jack the Sailor 20 Dec 12 - 02:21 PM
Greg F. 20 Dec 12 - 02:34 PM
Jack the Sailor 20 Dec 12 - 02:53 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 20 Dec 12 - 03:02 PM
GUEST,CS 20 Dec 12 - 03:10 PM
Dave the Gnome 20 Dec 12 - 03:17 PM
Bobert 20 Dec 12 - 03:44 PM
Little Hawk 20 Dec 12 - 04:10 PM
Jack the Sailor 20 Dec 12 - 05:10 PM
Little Hawk 20 Dec 12 - 05:32 PM
gnu 20 Dec 12 - 05:33 PM
gnu 20 Dec 12 - 05:35 PM
Jack the Sailor 20 Dec 12 - 06:06 PM
Greg F. 20 Dec 12 - 06:07 PM
Little Hawk 20 Dec 12 - 06:22 PM
Jack the Sailor 20 Dec 12 - 06:36 PM
GUEST,CS 20 Dec 12 - 06:44 PM
Elmore 20 Dec 12 - 06:49 PM
Jack the Sailor 20 Dec 12 - 06:55 PM
Amos 20 Dec 12 - 06:55 PM
GUEST,Lizzie Cornish 20 Dec 12 - 07:02 PM
Little Hawk 20 Dec 12 - 07:04 PM
Mrrzy 20 Dec 12 - 07:31 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 20 Dec 12 - 07:47 PM
Greg F. 20 Dec 12 - 07:54 PM
GUEST,CS 20 Dec 12 - 07:58 PM
gnu 20 Dec 12 - 08:17 PM
Jack the Sailor 20 Dec 12 - 08:32 PM
GUEST,Lizzie Cornish 21 Dec 12 - 03:55 AM
Jack the Sailor 21 Dec 12 - 04:16 AM
GUEST,Lizzie Cornish 21 Dec 12 - 07:04 AM
Amos 21 Dec 12 - 08:32 AM
Bobert 21 Dec 12 - 09:45 AM
Amos 21 Dec 12 - 09:58 AM
Dave the Gnome 21 Dec 12 - 07:16 PM
Jack the Sailor 21 Dec 12 - 10:41 PM
number 6 21 Dec 12 - 10:51 PM
Dave the Gnome 22 Dec 12 - 09:45 AM
Ron Davies 23 Dec 12 - 08:25 AM
Henry Krinkle 24 Dec 12 - 05:59 AM
ollaimh 14 Jan 13 - 11:44 AM
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Subject: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 19 Dec 12 - 05:20 PM

I think "Time" made the logical choice. He has made a lot of news this year. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/12/19/obama_named_times_person_of_the_year_for_2012.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: gnu
Date: 19 Dec 12 - 05:27 PM

I'd agree, even tho I am not qualified on your level, JtS. I still hold out great hopes for what he can for the world in his next term.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 19 Dec 12 - 05:31 PM

Uh-huh.
Yay!
*snicker*!
=(:-( D)


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: bobad
Date: 19 Dec 12 - 05:36 PM

I agree and if he can do something about changing the gun laws he may get another Peace Prize.

BTW, the runner up was Malala Yousafzai, the young Pakistani girl shot in the head by a Taliban coward for her campaign for girl's education. Here's some of what Time had to say about her:

"In trying, and failing, to kill Malala, the Taliban appear to have made a crucial mistake. They wanted to silence her. Instead, they amplified her voice. Since October her message has been heard around the world, from cramped classrooms where girls scratch out lessons in the dirt to the halls of the U.N. and national governments and NGOs, where legions of activists argue ever more vehemently that the key to raising living standards throughout the developing world is the empowerment of women and girls. Malala was already a spokesperson; the Taliban made her a symbol, and a powerful one, since in the age of social media and crowdsourced activism, a parable as tragic and triumphant as hers can raise an army of disciples."


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 19 Dec 12 - 05:39 PM

Yep.
A real stampeder.
*hehehee*!
=(:-( 0)


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 19 Dec 12 - 05:52 PM

You know, Lincoln is on the one cent coin and the five dollar bill.
I think we should put Prez Barack Hussein al-Obama on one of them.
But which one?
I say the one cent coin.
Penny for your thoughts?
=(:-( l)


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Dec 12 - 05:55 PM

Fuck off Krinkle with your insane racial slurs.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Dec 12 - 05:58 PM

Forgive him, Richard, for he knows not of what he speaks... You do... I do.. Everyone else does but...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Ron Davies
Date: 19 Dec 12 - 05:59 PM

So, Mr. Krinkle, you are a stalwart "green" voter?   Interesting.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 19 Dec 12 - 06:01 PM

Don't use foul language.
Children come here.
Respect the Mudcat.
=(:-( X)


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 19 Dec 12 - 06:32 PM

You know, if you don't respond to him the thread will be shorter and to the point.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Ron Davies
Date: 19 Dec 12 - 06:35 PM

So tell us, oh pristine Mr. Krinkle, what makes you a "green" voter.    Let's see, bigoted, subject to rather dubious assertions ( e.g. afraid of fluoride in the water), determined to hang on to all his guns and defend the outdated ( for anyone who can think) right of all Americans to be armed to the teeth--AK-47's and other automatic weapons included, proud of his ignorance and determined to do nothing about it ( e.g. against reading about a topic he likes to run off at the mouth about so that he'd stand a chance of making some sense).

Gee, I didn't know that was a typical 'green" voter.

I remember a bluegrass group where the leader used to say "we believe in aggressive ignorance in bluegrass music".    But he was kidding. You appear to be serious in your aggressive ignorance.

You learn something new every day.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 19 Dec 12 - 06:37 PM

Words of wisdom.
They never cease to amaze.
=(:-( ))


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: bobad
Date: 19 Dec 12 - 06:38 PM

Please - don't make this a thread about him, can't you see that is what he wants?


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 19 Dec 12 - 06:44 PM

Wellll now.*leans back in chair* Tell me about all the warm and wonderful things your boy has done.*taps foot* I'm waiting.
Other than being the Republican's patsy.
=(:-( ))


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Amergin
Date: 19 Dec 12 - 07:07 PM

That little girl from Pakistan deserves it more than him. He's a president, it is nothing for him to speak. She showed raw courage and continues to do so.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012 jts
From: Amos
Date: 19 Dec 12 - 08:41 PM

Well-deserved after pulling off that campaign! Among many other things.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Dec 12 - 09:00 PM

If each of Krinkle's posts was removed (they are just air, he adds no content) the conversation would be shorter and on track. Bobad is correct, it really is best to resist the temptation to acknowledge the inane and insulting things he does post. It's all about Krinkle all of the time, adding little "me, too!" remarks just to keep his name in sight.

From here forward, please remember to stop feeding the troll.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Ron Davies
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 12:06 AM

I disagree in this case. I'd actually like to know why he considers himself a "green" voter--which I think is different from being an aggressive crackpot (though please correct me if I'm wrong on this).


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Ron Davies
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 12:10 AM

That question is actually more intriguing than the thread topic, since Person of the Year is often a media beauty contest.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 01:27 AM

As I recall, Richard is a 'greenie' because, although he didn't know who was running in the name of the Green Party, he said that's who he was voting for. Did he actually vote? I have my doubts.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: GUEST,999
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 09:58 AM

I agree with Amergin, but I have no problem with President Obama being the recipient for a few reasons.

1) President Obama answers my emails; The Hair doesn't.

2) I think knowing he has a majority of the American people behind him--not necessarily the ones who buy TV, news and social media time--will lead to some overdue change.

3) In terms of the American people--referred to in reason #2--the most important year will be in 2014 when 1/3 of the senate, 36 state governors and the entire 435 house representatives are up for election or reelection.

May you live in interesting times.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 10:47 AM

Time basically awards this to the most Newsworthy person. President Obama made a lot of news this year. Great campaign, lousy debates performance, taking a much more aggressive stance with the GOP?Tea party, and so on leading to the call for anti=gun laws the other day at Sandy hook. Who know how it will work out? But he is making news.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Amos
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 10:59 AM

Thanks for the kind wish, Bruiser, but it is already well-taken-care of! :D

The PErson of the Year is selected on the basis of how much impact the electee has had on the world. One year it was the personal computer, back when typewriters were beginning to panic. Obama has made some important difgferences. For one thing he has forced the right wing reactivists to pull in their horns. For another he has salvaged the economy, if slowly, from a precipitate collapse. For a third he has moved the cause of rational health care forward in this country. For a fourth he has articulated a rational vision of economics being driven by the middle class, not the upper class, which is brilliant in its simplicity and (IMHO) accuracy and which has defanged the insanity of the plutocratic model of economics. For a fifth he has continually demonstrated a sense of compassion and intelligent leadership, and generally steered things in the right direction despite the best efforts of our less-than-sane minority to prevent it. For a sixth he has enhanced the repute of the country internationally, by actual survey. For a seventh he has backed down the rabid jingoistic militarism of the John Wayne crowd and re-aligned our national purposes away from invasion and militant world policing, while balancing this with a firmness in policy.

So overall, I think he has done as well as any ordinary man could do in the position, and has improved things. I would like to see an end to the combat posture in Afghanistan, but for the sake of those who live there, not at the cost of turning the whole region back over to the psychos in the Taliban. And I would dearly love to see a national Board of Enquiry investigate the gradual corrosion of constitutional freedoms in the United States and see steps taken to rectify them by restoring freedoms of speech, assembly, and the right to un-invaded privacy in homes and personal communications.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 11:27 AM

Yes, if there is one thing lacking in this country these days that Obama exemplifies it is *grace*...

A lot of grace-less people were like spectators watching gladiators during the first debate and were quick to give Obama a "thumbs down" for showing grace... That's sad... He didn't lose that debate... He refused to lower himself to the crassness exhibited by Romney with Romney's pit-bull tactics of repeating lies over and over and over...

Lotta people could learn something by re-winding and re-watching that debate...

Lotta people could also re-learn that when America started it's decline is when there always had to be a loser and a winner... If we treat the running of the country as combat then we are going to end up bloodied and far less able to compete in a global economy...

Good for Obama to continue to show compassion and grace...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: GUEST,999
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 11:54 AM

"And I would dearly love to see a national Board of Enquiry investigate the gradual corrosion of constitutional freedoms in the United States and see steps taken to rectify them by restoring freedoms of speech, assembly, and the right to un-invaded privacy in homes and personal communications."

Bravo, Amos, bravo!


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Jim McLean
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 12:27 PM

What is Obama doing about the Israeli Anschluss of Pastinian land? Absolutely nothing except continual support for Israel.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 12:39 PM

Sorry...I disagree with this.
Obama is still killing civilians in Afghanistan, due to an invasion which should *never* have taken place. My country too is totally wrong to be there. He sanctions drones too, some of which have killed children and trust me, ALL Mothers cry the same tears, no matter where they come from.

Also, he continues to keep Leonard Peltier in prison, scared, I'd imagine, of the FBI and what they would do to him...It was, imo, the very first thing he should have done on first being elected, or at least, on being elected second time around....

I have NO respect for him in this matter.

Person of The Year 2012?

Leonard Peltier, who should actually win it EVERY year, for he has endured Absolute Hell these past 37 years...and even now is STILL being made to suffer, not receiving the correct medical treatment to this day.....

At least his friends and those from 'Democracy Now' have given him much support recently..

But whilst Obama continues to keep Leonard in prison, he has not an ounce of respect from me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 12:45 PM

From just a very few days back and there are now other very recent videos about Leonard from Democracy Now out there too, following the concert for him in New York on the 14th December 2012 with Jackson Brown, Pete Seeger, Harry Belafonte and many many others, from all generations.

Leonard Peltier, PERSON OF THE LAST 37 YEARS!

Amy Goodman from 'Democracy Now' speaks to Leonard Peltier


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 01:15 PM

Does the US President have the power to order the release of a prisoner?


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 01:19 PM

Hitler was named "Man of the Year" It is not awarded for humanitarian reasons.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 01:29 PM

According to this Leonard Peltier fled questioning and had a shootout with police, possibly three shootouts, over the theft of a pair of cowboy boots. How does that make him worthy of respect? I am at a loss.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 01:39 PM

Take a pill, Liz. You need to up your dosage.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 01:50 PM

Sorry chaps, you've had it now. I suspect an uprising of Indians, led by Geronimo, Sitting Bull and their close facebook friends will bring the American nation crashing down. Leading the way for those who know nothing of the American people, apart from what the internet feeds them, to take over the world, cover it in thatched cottages and introduce compulsory 'Listen with Mother' on the radio at 2pm every day...

:D tG


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 01:53 PM

Dave, LOL! Shouldn't this be on the 2012 thread?


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 01:54 PM

Yes, Pete, he can grant him clemency in an instant...Clinton WAS going to do this but the FBI threatened a countrywide strike. They probably also threatened Clinton too, being that they have files on everyone of importance..(to be used at a later date, I've no doubt)

Jack:

'Who Is Leonard Peltier ' - Official Site for Leonard

This very new video is BRILLIANT!! So much information here:
New & Excellent 'Deomcracy Now' interview with Peter Coyote on Leonard Peltier

There is NO evidence to convict Leonard of killing either of the agents. Myrtle Poor Bear, on whose testimony he was extradited from Canada, was threatened by the FBI that she would have her child taken away from her unless she said what they wanted..

Also, please do not take ANY notice of a site called 'No Parole Peltier' as this is run by Ed Woods, retired FBI agent. He, and a small group of other retired agents and their supporters spread many lies and much confusion about this case all over the internet...They also seek to use the FBI COINTELPRO tactics of 'neutralizing' Leonard's reputation. They took full page adverts out in major papers when Clinton was thinking of releasing him...It is one of the most horrendous miscarriages of justice and this man has sat in prison for nearly 40 years now!

In all this time, Leonard has refused to turn his face to the wall, doing all he can to help his People, raising awareness of Native American issues and problems...

Personally, I have NO idea how he keeps sane. He's also, throughout this time, been beaten, survived an assasinaton attempt, been moved thousands of miles away from his family, friends and legal team..and has spent many months in Solitary, the last time being just last year, for four months, in searing heat, being fed just ONCE a day (he's diabetic, severely so)..after being found to have a £20 note in his cell. It had come from a lady in Scotland, who'd put it in her letter to him. ALL mail is checked by the staff before being given to prisoners, ALL mail...Make of that what you will....You'll find a former prison guard on Youtube also talking about Leonard's time in Solitary, saying how badly he's so often treated.....

'Incident At Oglala' full documentary made with the help of Robert Redford


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 02:06 PM

That's right, Liz - only what YOU say or approve of has any validity whatsoever.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: gnu
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 02:07 PM

Re Leonard Peltier... there is a thread discussing his case for all to read. It should not be discussed here. Along with some of the other stuff, obviously.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 02:10 PM

I don't in any way condone or excuse the shooting of Federal officers. According to that article he says he shot at them, but did not kill them, this statement contradicts his previous provided alibis. Maybe he got a harsher sentence than is just. But it seems that he is not as innocent as you claim. If it were up to me, shooting at a federal agent would justify a very harsh sentence. It is a crime akin to insurrection, maybe treason.

I think you could easily find a more worthy "Person of the last 37 years."

Start with those who don't shoot at cops over cowboy boots.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 02:11 PM

Good point Gnu.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 02:18 PM

Jack, this case is *very* complicated. There was shooting going on everywhere. One of the Native American men who was also there, Joe Stuntz, was shot through the head. No murder investigation was ever launched for Joe. I can't go into all the details here, but if you are REALLY interested then do the research YOURSELF and do not let yourself be swayed by others.

gnu is very anti-Leonard, which is why he's asked for me to not mention him. I can mention anyone I so choose in here, because I do NOT agree with President Obama having been voted Person of the Year. Other people in here also disagree, yet they are not told to keep quiet and not post their opinions. You asked for info on this case, therefore, I provided it, above. There is a wealth of information out there, including videos by Robbie Robertson too....

Pete Seeger's doing all he can for Leonard, and to promote the new film due out next year 'Wind Chases The Sun'...on which ex-FBI agent, M Wesley Swearingen is also helping.

Leonard is the Mandela of America and Nelson himself has called many times over for Leonard to be released. Leonard has now been in prison way longer than Nelson.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 02:21 PM

Please do not discuss this any more on this thread. I am not interested. As I said, the fact that he admitted shooting at FBI agents is plenty for me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 02:34 PM

Leonard is the Mandela of America

There is bullshit, damned bullshit, and then there is Liz bullshit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 02:53 PM

Greg F that was a personal attack and it was not called for.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 03:02 PM

Well, A while ago I DID mention that he should win the Academy Award nomination for actor in the film category of best fictional Docu-Drama.

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 03:10 PM

Not convinced Obama has made any substantial impact on the world this year. However in view of the US's history re: the world, I am tempted to believe that that's a very good thing!


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 03:17 PM

Thanks, Jack. It should probably be elsewehere but it is pretty apt don't you think :-)

I re-read your opening statement

Time basically awards this to the most Newsworthy person.

I think this probably indicates what this award is really for and puts Obama well to the front if not in the lead. The only other person I can of who think who generated more news was Osama bin Laden. But his newsworthyness was cut short somewhat! I agree with your sentiment of 2:21PM as well.

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 03:44 PM

I'm sorry, Lizzie, but I think you are not fully in touch with what the president of the US can and cannot do... I mean, sure, if he woke up one day with a letter from Congress appointing him for life with full powers and a 55 gallon drum of fairy dust, yeah, I'm sure Obama would have done everything you wanted him to do...

However, if that happened then I missed it...

B;~)


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 04:10 PM

I find the whole concept of "Person of the Year" pretty silly. And usually pretty predictable too. It's a scheduled PR excercise that our political culture goes through once a year in order to reinforce its sense of its own moral grandeur, and that's about as far as it goes. It's no surprise that Obama got it. It's kind of like it would be giving it to Julius Caesar (or one of his successors) if we were living back in the days of Rome.

A standard exercise. Matter of fact, they did do stuff like this in Rome periodically in order to further exalt their leaders.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 05:10 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_Person_of_the_Year

Yeah Hawk. That's why Stalin won it twice.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 05:32 PM

It certainly is interesting looking at that historical list of who won it each year, Jack. Adolf Hitler won it in 1938...just a year before the start of WWII. Ghandi won it in 1930, not surprisingly. He'd have had to win it at some point.

It appears to be an acknowledgement mostly of who is the most newsworthy and talked about person (or people) that year. Sort of like the media confirming their biggest obsession of the moment, just so it's official. Some of them are virtually forgotten now, but they must have seemed very important then, like Chiang Kai-Shek and his wife in 1937 during their war with the invading Japanese. The Baby Boomers (as a group) won it in 1966, the pivotal year of cultural change in the tumultuous 60s.

Mohammed Mossadegh the elected prime minister of Iran got it in 1951, by golly! The Iranians have not forgotten him, but most North Americans don't even know his name. He was brought down in 1953 by a CIA and British MI6-backed coup which replaced him with the Shah....mostly so that Iran's oil would not be nationalized, but would remain in the control of western oil corporations.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: gnu
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 05:33 PM

"gnu is very anti-Leonard, which is why he's asked for me to not mention him."

Fer fuck sake! Are you gonna start this shit again? ANYONE can read the trial transcript as I stated on the OTHER thread! He was IDd as the shooter by a DYING cop in hospital that HE SHOT. BESIDES which... all of it is on ANORTHER thread. Don't try to hijack this one. It isn't about Peltier and it isn't about you. It's about Time's Person of the Year.

Refresh the other thread. Start a new thred. Whatever. I am tired of being called anti-whatever right up to racist because some people can't read.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: gnu
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 05:35 PM

"Other people in here also disagree, yet they are not told to keep quiet and not post their opinions."

Bullshit... I DID.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 06:06 PM

LH, Time Magazine is a news magazine. People who read it are interested in news, therefor they enjoy reading about newsworthy people and things. There is not a damned thing wrong with that.

If it was "The World as Little Hawk Wants it to Be Magazine" No doubt President Obama would not be its person of the year. No doubt it would be on a four year cycle with either small dogs, imaginary apes, prim and proper made up Englishwomen and drunken pseudo-Canadian caricatures as the yearly winner.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 06:07 PM

Greg F that was a personal attack and it was not called for.

Nothing of the kind, Jack. I attack the bullshit, not the person.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 06:22 PM

Jack, I think your point about Time being a news magazine and therefore picking someone who they deem most "newsworthy" is right on the mark. I certainly wouldn't take issue with that. As you say, they are doing exactly what they are there to do.

I just don't take it that seriously, that's all. It's more noise.

People Magazine and some other mags like that are fond of picking the "Sexiest Man of the Year" and the "Sexiest Woman of the Year", they do it every year, cos that's part of their job...I see it at the grocery checkout, and my reaction to it is much the same.

"Oh...right....that again...."(shrug).

Whatever it is, it ain't gonna last too long, but hey, they have a job to do! They're there to entertain. And why should I object?

Who would I pick as "Person of the Year"? Well, I probably wouldn't do that in the first place. My job doesn't require me to.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 06:36 PM

" They're there to entertain. And why should I object?"

And yet you DO object! LOL!


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 06:44 PM

Amos earlier said it was to do with the person who'd had the *greatest impact** in the world* that year, so which is it? Actual impact of that person, which affects genuine change in the world at large (for good or ill), or hot air pumped out by the MMS about that person? If the latter, then surely the Beckhams or Justin Beiber would win?


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Elmore
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 06:49 PM

Anybody who has to put up with Boner and mc Donnell should get a medal.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 06:55 PM

Person of the Year (formerly Man of the Year) is an annual issue of the United States newsmagazine Time that features and profiles a person, group, idea or object that "for better or for worse, ...has done the most to influence the events of the year.

How Time decides on the person is here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Amos
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 06:55 PM

The Man of the Year award goes to the person who has had the most impact on events. Not the most number of lines of press, although obviously to a news magazine that might seem to be an intersecting set.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 07:02 PM

Well, bobert, you'd best talk to Leonard's legal team, for they've been pushing for Clemencey now for a long time. He *does* have the power to grant it. I doubt he'll do it until he's about to leave Office for good though....but even then, he has his children to think about.....and trust me on this one, the FBI will stop at nothing to keep Leonard locked up. He should have been freed years back under 'normal' circumstances, but ain't nothing 'normal' about this case whatsoever....

>>>>As I said, the fact that he admitted shooting at FBI agents is plenty for me.<<<<

Many people shot AT them, the agents shot AT many people too, as did all the other agents, one of whom shot Joe Stuntz in the head, killing him immediately, but hey, Joe was 'just an Indian' right, so he didn't deserve a murder enquiry at all, whereas the agents got the biggest manhunt in the history of the USA...

And Jack, if you're the kind of person who'd stick someone in prison for near on 40 years already, with another 28 still to go, merely for shooting AT someone, bearing in mind the judge in the first trial, at which Leonard wasn't present, said the FBI brought it all on themselves because of their atrocious behaviour on Pine Ridge, then you need to look deep into your Soul....

Also, check out what was happening elsewhere on that very same day, that being the illegal sale of hundreds of thousands of acres of Pine Ridge to the U.S. government, for they wanted the Uranium, you see. It was sold to them by Richard Wilson (spit!) who got himself into power (illegaly) on Pine Ridge and who then oversaw the Reign of Terror, bringing in the FBI-backed GOONS to cause mayhem, havoc and deep fear amongst the People..

The FBI, who just happened to be there in vast numbers, all appearing only AFTER the shooting, were there, it is said by many people, to cause a diversion that day, thus taking the spotlight away from the jerk who was selling off the land of the Lakota to the Greedy Corporate Bastards and U.S. government...

Leonard was ONLY at Pine Ridge that day because he'd been asked to go there to help protect the women and children...

Sorry if you don't want to hear all this, and I know it upsets a few folks on Mudcat, but because of this shite going down an innocent man's life has been turned into a living hell.....

Had Leonard been at the first trial, he'd have been set free, as were the other three men arrested. And the judge said that even if they HAD shot those agents, the FBI were still hugely responsible for what happened, due to causing all the problems they had in the first place...

You should check it all out....
Then check out your President, who knows ALL about Leonard, but still refuses to do a damn thing...I'd be fuming, no matter which President it was...

And for your information, when Obama was first elected I sat over in England with tears running down my face, feeling this was the man who do so much good for America, but he kept up the Wars, he kept up the Drones, he kept Leonard locked away. And he silently signed America into Deep Fear one New Year's Eve......He even signed an apology to the Native Americans, but it was hidden amongst a ton of other 'stuff' so no-one got to hear about that, not even the Americans themselves, for the most part....Nowt as insulting as a Hidden Apology is there...."Hey, we're TRULY sorry for the Holocaust, but we'll just whisper about it, here in this little padded room where no-one will see us squirming and filling our apology with words that protect us from legal redress and have to return land, for heck, we're not THAT sorry!"

So, you'll excuse me if my tears have now dried for Obama and are shed, instead, for the Native Americans and for Leonard, in his 37th year of a 5'9" x 6' cell.....


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 07:04 PM

I believe you've got it right, Amos. It's the impact on events (or at least the perceived impact on events) that mostly matters. G.W. Bush got mamed for it twice, as did several other American presidents.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 07:31 PM

People are full of hope - hope he'll earn his Peace Prize, and this honor too.
I'm in favor of hope. Beats a lot of alternatives.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 07:47 PM

How can he deserve a Peace Prize? Don't get that...his soldiers are blowing hell out of Afghanistan. And any man (or woman) who can allow drones to be used is beyond my comprehension...How terrifying must they be for the population....

Yeesh, the British had to put with similar nightmares from Hitler...yet now we too are in Afghanistan....

Peace Prize should go to someone who is for Peace,shouldn't it? Or have they rewritten the rules and moved the goalposts?

I think Pete Seeger should get it...
Leonard has also been nominated for it too...
Chief Raoni's also out there on a petition for it and just back from his last ever European visit (he's in his 80s and feeling very tired now) trying to get the world to wake up..

I expect they'll give it to some government though, for the flippin' European Union got it this year..and if that's not Insanityand Corruption, I've no idea what is...


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 07:54 PM

Take a pill, Liz.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 07:58 PM

With you on that one LC.

Albeit, from what I understand (little enough) the US prez has in fact a pfflingly small amount of genuine power over either domestic or international policy - at least that's what we hear when he's criticised, I really don't have a clue!

Still, Obama has resisted increasing pressure to bomb Iran and for that I give him props! I hope he can keep up the good wirk and avoid yet another military incursion of a foreign nation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: gnu
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 08:17 PM

So... Obama is The Person of the Year according to Time mag, eh? Cool.
Anyone care to comment on that again or in the first place and leave all the other thread drift for other threads that already exist or you can start?

Second time I said it. Can't be arsed with it again. Gnightgnu.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 20 Dec 12 - 08:32 PM

Liz you are a troll now better than Krinkle, ranting and raving and looking for attention. KINDLY, PLEASE, If you must piss and moan about an unrelated topic, start your own thread.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 21 Dec 12 - 03:55 AM

Tell you what, Jack, you tell everyone else off who's mentioned folks who've won it in the past, or disagree that Obama should win it, or who've nominated others they think should win it, as have been mentioned in this thread, and then, *I* won't regard you as one of The Lizzie-Bashers, who only picks on my posts and no-one else's.

I don't agree that Obama should win this for the reasons I've stated above.

But now, I'll leave and Greg, my Pet Stalker, to pontificate about this post too.

Stop being so pompous and...dare I say it, so sexist too, being miffed because a woman dares to come in to *your* thread and not only disagree with you, pull your hero to pieces, but also dares to recommend that someone such as Leonard Peltier should have been nominated for this every year since he has been wrongfully imprisoned...

After that, you can put your cleanly washed 'I Love The FBI No Matter WHAT They Do!' T shirt on..and take my Pet Stalker out for a drink....

Thank you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 21 Dec 12 - 04:16 AM

I don't know that you are a woman. I sure as shooting do not care. I do know that you have not read the thread. "Person of the Year" is not an award for good deeds. They way I see it, you can continue to display your ignorance the way a baboon shows its shiny red arse, or you can find something else to do.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 21 Dec 12 - 07:04 AM

Well, if the blokes you know are called Lizzie, then maybe your arse is redder and shinier than ANY baboons, Jack.

Have a good day... :0)


And now, back to TIME magazine, Awards and Obama, who does't need an Award, but who needs a bloody good talking to!


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Amos
Date: 21 Dec 12 - 08:32 AM

Actually, the editors of Time are misguided. The entity that has had the most--by FAR!--influence on events this year is the Higgs boson. But they couldn't put a picture of it on the cover...


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Dec 12 - 09:45 AM

I liked the picture that is on the link, Amos...

As for Obama being man of the year??? Hey, given the low-grade civil war that is underway in the United States the fact that he has survived a first term without being shot or shot at is quite an accomplishment... Then throw in being re-elected in a down economy magnifies his accomplishments...

And he hasn't started any new wars and is doing his best, under constant opposition fire, to wind down the two il-concieved wars that he inherited...

Like I've said, if the opposition party would get out of the way, Obama could and would take care of alot of the beefs that Lizzie has but...

...Obama is operating with more opposition headwind than any president since Lincoln so give the man a break...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Amos
Date: 21 Dec 12 - 09:58 AM

Liz:

Your impassioned summation of Leonard Peltier's situation is persuasive and compassionate in the extreme.

Please note there is significantly less warfare going on since Obama took office than there was before and he is trying to wind down the second front (Afghanistan). As for his position on Leonard Peltier, I do not believe Obama lacks the compassion necessary to act, but I suspect he has been focused on louder and more urgent or important issues.

I would like to see Peltier's sentence suspended and see him freed, myself.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Dec 12 - 07:16 PM

But now, I'll leave and Greg, my Pet Stalker, to pontificate about this post too.

Damn you, Liz! I thought I was your pet stalker. You don't half flirt with us. Oh, sorry, I just remembered. Anyone who disagrees with you is labeled either a bully or a stalker aren't they? Employ screaming and shouting along with smoke and mirrors rather than face the reality that other people have valid opinions?

Look at -

and not only disagree with you, pull your hero to pieces,

I have seen no evidence whatsoever of any reasoned logic that, under the rules of Time Magazines person of the year, Obama does not deserve to win. Bearing in mind that hysterics, the inability to speak coherently on the radio and patronization of ethnic minorities are no substitution for sensible argument. JtS has quite rightly suggested that Obama is indeed a newsworthy chap. Times magazine had sold lots of copy due to his activities. Peltier has not sold anything for them this year. Tough but true.

Now please go away and let people discuss what they want without trying to make every thread about your own pet projects.


DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 21 Dec 12 - 10:41 PM

Little Hawk is not a hawk or little. Dave is not a Gnome. I am not a sailor.

Looking at the name "Lizzie Cornish, I'd have thought I was talking to a gecko/game hen hybrid.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: number 6
Date: 21 Dec 12 - 10:51 PM

and I'm not a number .... I'm a free man !!

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Dec 12 - 09:45 AM

But who is number one..?

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Ron Davies
Date: 23 Dec 12 - 08:25 AM

Just found this again.

Jack, your post of 20 Dec 2012 6:06 PM is right on target.   Couldn't have done it better myself.   I always applaud a waspish (note lower-case)--but a rather gentle wasp-- sense of humor. Delightful.

And like you, I can hardly wait til LH does indeed win the contest. I'd love to read that article.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 24 Dec 12 - 05:59 AM

The prez can pardon anyone in prison and get them out.
Slick Willie pardoned his coke head brother.
Ford pardoned Nixon for anything he did his whole life.
The prez can get Leonard out anytime he wants. With one penstroke.
=(:-( D)


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: ollaimh
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 11:44 AM

the real story about leonard peltier is to be seen from the first trial / the one where several co accused were aquited by and all white jury.

the jury found that the fbi were acting illegally on native land. that they were not legally on ythe property and refused to leave and began the shooting. of course this was their standard behavior on the pine ridge reservation at the time.

the agents were breaking the law and it cost them their lives. the second jury trial was a stitch up. the jury was barred from hearing most of the defense testimony, which was successfull at the first trial.

the fbi and bureau of indian affairs conducted a murderous terror campaign on pine ridge reservation during thoase years. they and their proxis the goons--and thats what the armed gangs the fbi armed and trained were called(guardiand of the oglala nation) killed over 600 hundred people . these murders have never been investigated.

maybe people don't like this being discussed on this thread but the facts are stark. the american government conducted a terror campaing against the natives of pine ridge. against some of the poorest and least powerfull in the world for speaking up abiout their experiences in the generations long genocide.

peltier deserves to be pardoned, the fbi should be charged criminally for their involvement in the terrorist murder of the 600


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: ollaimh
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 11:46 AM

and greg f, your endless personal attacks are unwarranted and despicable. your clearly the one who needs medication


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Elmore
Date: 16 Jan 13 - 07:53 PM

O'Leary, O'Reilly. O'Hare and O'Hara, There's no one as Irish as Barack O'Bama.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Ron Davies
Date: 17 Jan 13 - 02:52 AM

We want information.

And don't tell me we won't get it.

We always get it on Mudcat--then we just have to figure out if it's based on anything but the imagination of the poster.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Elmore
Date: 17 Jan 13 - 08:08 PM

Sen. Paul of kentucky compared Obama to FDR today. Cool. 4 terms for obama.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Ron Davies
Date: 18 Jan 13 - 12:31 PM

Sen. Paul, GOP, if I'm not mistaken.   And therefore always reliable to put Obama in the best light.   

Just how naive are you?


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Elmore
Date: 19 Jan 13 - 10:07 AM

Damn. Sen. Paul compared Roosevelt to the President in a negative way, saying that both desired an imperial presidency. I plead guilty to making lame jokes, but not to being naive.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Ron Davies
Date: 19 Jan 13 - 11:14 AM

Problem is that on the Net we can't see your expression or hear the inflection. So humor is sometimes lost.

It was a reasonable guess that you were one of our unstable Obama-haters whining about Obama becoming a dictator.

Sorry about the misinterpretation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pres. Obama, Person of the Year 2012
From: Elmore
Date: 19 Jan 13 - 11:51 AM

Peace.


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