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BS: American 'Can't do'... (gun control)
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Subject: BS: American 'Can't do'... From: Bobert Date: 22 Dec 12 - 10:11 AM I've been reading the words of hand-wringing pessimists who say that we can't have sane gun control because, well, we just "can't do" it and it occurred to me this morning that America has become the "Can't do" nation... No matter what people want the there's someone with more microphone time than the people telling us we "can't do" this or that... Here we have a working class whose productivity has increased 100% since 1982 but whose incomes have stagnated because when it come to sharing the bounty with labor we "can't do" that... We have had 8 major mass murders in the country in the last 12 months but we "can't do" anything about creating sane policies... Over the last 30 years we have had a number of weather monitoring satellites circling the globe and warning us of storms but we are down to just a couple that are on the cusp of burning out and we don't have any to replace them because we just "can't do" it... Cost too much... You go to work for a defense contractor building something that needs to hold up in a war zone and see that corners are being cut that jeopardizes its serviceability and if you bring it to the attention of your supervisor and he tells you to "shut up or quit" so you think that you'll take it to the press or your congressman but you look around at how other "whistle blowers" are treated so you "can't do" that... I mean, the examples are all around us... They permeate or psychic and, frankly, this "can't do" is making a lot of people very rich while everyone else suffers because when it comes to even changing the manner in which our democracy works or doesn't work if we try to change it we find we "can't do" that either... Me??? I grew up in a "can do" nation where things such as going to the moon were possible and I am deeply saddened to see an entire generation being told, "sorry, we 'can't do' that"... End of Bobert's mini-rant... B:~( |
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Subject: RE: BS: American 'Can't do'... From: Pete Jennings Date: 22 Dec 12 - 10:27 AM And over here we have the bloody opposite: the "must do" brigade, exemplified by every crackpot European diktat made up by some un-elected bureaucrat in Brussels. So what happens? Here, we appoint hoardes of inspectors to make sure they are obeyed, e.g. can't sell unwrapped foodstuffs from an uncovered shelf, smoke in bars etc, etc. Meanwhile, away from any major town in Europe, nobody gives a stuff and gets on as normal. It ain't difficult to find a cafe in rural France with unwrapped food on a counter or even the locals enjoying a Galoise with a glass of rouge... I dunno which is worse, but they're both bad. End of Pete's mini-rant!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: American 'Can't do'... From: Jack Campin Date: 22 Dec 12 - 11:18 AM Since the same rules apply to France, you're blaming the wrong bunch of lawmakers. Making up oppressive legislation of their own and then blaming Europe for it is SOP for British governments. It's much more serious when they get together with the US to create oppressive laws. It isn't European legislation that's had people imprisoned without trial for years. |
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Subject: RE: BS: American 'Can't do'... From: Rapparee Date: 22 Dec 12 - 12:06 PM Yup, Bobert. Yer right. "Let's just give up" seems to be the national mantra. |
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Subject: RE: BS: American 'Can't do'... From: Pete Jennings Date: 22 Dec 12 - 12:50 PM Aarrgh! Just realised I'm guilty of threadjack. Need a Mod an' quick before Bobz spots this: Start a new thread call British "Must do"...and put me and Jack's posts in it. Pleeeeeeeeeze! Bobert's got a gun!! Pete |
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Subject: RE: BS: American 'Can't do'... From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 22 Dec 12 - 12:51 PM Maybe if someone developed a "CAN DO!" app for i-Phones.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: American 'Can't do'... From: Greg F. Date: 22 Dec 12 - 01:04 PM That's right - the techno-addicted, self-centered idiots will save the U.S. apps-R-us. 'Cept they won't (can't?)get their noses out of their electronic toys for any reason whatsoever. |
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Subject: RE: BS: American 'Can't do'... From: Bobert Date: 22 Dec 12 - 05:36 PM Yeah, I reckon what we have now is more "American Won't Do" but given the app-gen these kids literally will be the "American Can't Do"... I mean, their muscles will atrophy... Those toys aren't exactly like weight lifting... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: American 'Can't do'... From: gnu Date: 22 Dec 12 - 06:31 PM Bobert.... Well, I been sayin that for a LONG while and not just in my posts... in PMs and emails. I could cite even more examples of stuff I said that seem to get turfed aside or ignored and then brought up again by others as brand new but I expect that's on accounta people need to absorb things slowly... think about them a bit... ruminate... chew that cud and see if it tastes good... pick da bones outta dat fish an see if they can get n down dere troat eh me zon? I had what I would call a run in with a VERY good friend of mine here at Mudcat that I respect to the nth degree about this exact issue and he was one of several others by PM and/or email. I posted about it... again, it was ignored. But, I am glad it was brought up again. So... like I said in previous posts, I can't lead any movement (as you asked) to wake up you Yanks because I am a Canuck. It's up to you Yanks to stop your fucking BULLSHIT weening and get the job done. Fer fuck sake... this is a blues and folk site FULL of wise and sage people who have ACCESS to OUR collective knowledge, wisdom and expertise... from computer whizzers to poets to sages to musicians to... you NAME IT! Ya wanna save children from being shot? Type. TYPE! POST! GET THE FUCKIN JOB DONE! And stop weening and sayin ya "Can't". The keyboard is mightier than the sword. |
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Subject: RE: BS: American 'Can't do'... From: number 6 Date: 22 Dec 12 - 06:44 PM Hey gnu ..... well said indeed ! and I repeat what gnu said ... " It's up to you Yanks to stop your fucking BULLSHIT weening and get the job done" biLL |
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Subject: RE: BS: American 'Can't do'... From: gnu Date: 22 Dec 12 - 06:59 PM sIx... ya know that will piss off a lot of them. I sure hope so. It hasn't worked in all my past post, PMs and emails. Oh, it pissed them off, but it made them ignore my calls to action. Maybe it will turn from anger to actual action this time? On the gun thread, Dec 12, I said this ... Wellll... back briefly... I got three emails and on PM in response to a PM I sent. Here is my response to two of them, FWIW mmm... just to be clear. Are you saying, for the reasons given, another amendment cannot be made? I would have to think carefully about the words to describe my intent, but, off the top of my head - Amendment 2a : Listen up. In the interests of all of youse, and in the name of common sense, anyone who wants to bear arms gotta take an arms saftety course and pass it and have a background check before you can bear arms or ammo. None a youse can bear arms a) if yer too stupid to pass the test b) if ya got a crimial record or warrants or restraining order(s) c) yer a nutbar d) if yer civil union partner says, "A gun? Fuck NO! That asshole would probably use it to rob a corner store to feed his crack habit." e) if you bought a Built Ford Tough F-150 four wheel drive and and then you found out it was a pussy machine and the fuckers at Ford give you a hard time when you try to get shit fixed during the warranty period. I can't think of any others off the top of my head on accounta a lot of ideas slip off since I lost my hair. MERRY HO HO! ********************************************************************* HO fuckin HO. Lock and load... YOUR KEYBOARDS! Get the job done. You have everything you need to get it done here at Mudcat. Please... pretty please? with sugar? Do yas need salt on yer asses too? |
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Subject: RE: BS: American 'Can't do'... From: gnu Date: 22 Dec 12 - 07:08 PM Oh, BTW... my truck was under factory warranty until four days ago... I now have a message on it's computer that my tire pressure sensor has a fault. $70 plus 15% tax just to check it. MUCH more to replace the bad sensor and it "should" be replaced because such a fault could cause more problems. So, I need my guns so that when Ford takes all of my money I can feed myself by hunting rabbits. (That's from another thread.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: American 'Can't do'... From: gnu Date: 22 Dec 12 - 10:13 PM Oh oh. Did I say to much? Have I said enough? |
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Subject: RE: BS: American 'Can't do'... From: Bobert Date: 22 Dec 12 - 10:17 PM I think yer okay, gn-ze, so far... No more for tonight on the truck... There's always tomorrow, right... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: American 'Can't do'... From: GUEST,Backwoodsman Date: 23 Dec 12 - 03:51 AM Fuck the tyre pressure sensor. Get a tyre pressure gauge, 6.99 Canadian at CT, and check 'em yourself. That's what I do, they can shove their techno-shite sensors up their arses. :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: American 'Can't do'... From: gnu Date: 23 Dec 12 - 10:21 PM I don't rely on the computer for ANY of it, Backwoodsman. I DO, however, get VERY pissed off when a bright yellow light flashes on my dash 4 FUCKING DAYS after the warranty is done on my Built Ford Tough truck. BTW, about two weeks ago, when the weather turned COLD!, I inflated my tires to reflect winter temps. And I did that with my pressure guage that I keep in the glove box. Not only the guage... I look at my tires often. I don't need a computer and a sensor... my point is that THEIR computers and sensors scare the crap outta me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: American 'Can't do'... From: GUEST,Backwoodsman Date: 24 Dec 12 - 01:55 AM Gotcha gnu, I guess I'd be pissed off too. I was scared shitless when the oil pressure light came on in my VW, only to be told it was a fault with the warning light, oil pressure was fine. Grrrrrrr! |
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Subject: RE: BS: American 'Can't do'... From: GUEST,Backwoodsman Date: 24 Dec 12 - 01:57 AM Too many dials and lights nowadays, oh for the days when all we had was a speedo and a petrol gauge! :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: American 'Can't do'... From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 24 Dec 12 - 06:11 AM ...it "should" be replaced because such a fault could cause more problems. I don't know it for a fact, but I wouldn't be surprised if a bad tire pressure sensor might cause a vehicle's computer to turn the engine off as soon it's put in gear. It's a safety thing. The computer's not going to let you drive off if it "thinks" the pressure in one of the tires is unsafe. I recently retired my GMC van for a similar reason. Not a tire pressure sensor, but a bad anti-theft module. The vehicle doesn't even have an anti-theft package, but the computer still has the module in it. It's gone hinky and when it "thinks" someone is trying to steal the van, it shuts off the fuel injectors. Only a dealer can fix it, and the repair would probably cost more than a 12 year old van with 150K miles is worth. |
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Subject: RE: BS: American 'Can't do'... From: kendall Date: 24 Dec 12 - 07:11 AM Ok, do we all believe in democracy? majority rules? What if it turns out that the gun nuts are in the majority? As long as we keep electing candy ass politicians that do the bidding of the NRA instead of our bidding, we will get nothing done.I repeat, guns are not the number one problem; our law makers are! |
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Subject: RE: BS: American 'Can't do'... From: Greg F. Date: 24 Dec 12 - 09:30 AM What if it turns out that the gun nuts are in the majority? They're not, Kendall, and never have been - all 4 million NRA members equal about 1.4% of the population. Time to tell 'em to get stuffed. And if "we" keep re-electing 'em, the candy-ass politicians aren't the problem - "WE" are. (Greg, firearm owner, hunter, and recovering ex-NRA mamber) |
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Subject: RE: BS: American 'Can't do'... From: Bobert Date: 24 Dec 12 - 09:33 AM Yo, gn-ze... Black plastic electrical tape over the idiot light and guess what??? Peace, brother... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: American 'Can't do'... From: GUEST,kendall Date: 24 Dec 12 - 10:06 AM I'm also a recovering NRA dupe, and I have no way of knowing which group is in the majority. Those million or so members of the NRA surely are not the total of the gun freaks. |
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Subject: RE: BS: American 'Can't do'... From: Greg F. Date: 24 Dec 12 - 11:16 AM Plenty of studies done, Kendall, that put the gun nuts both NRA & Non-NRA in the small minority of the overall population category. Also, FYI, Survey done May 2011 by Republican pollster Frank Luntz, 82 percent of gun owners -- and 74 percent of NRA members -- said they support requiring criminal background checks for gun purchasers; 74 percent of NRA members believe concealed carry permits should only be granted to applicants who have completed gun safety training; 68 percent of NRA members believe concealed carry permits should only be granted to applicants who do not have prior arrests for domestic violence; 63 percent of NRA members believe concealed carry permits should only be granted to applicants 21 years of age or older;. 75 percent of NRA members believe that concealed carry permits should be granted only to those applicants who have not committed any violent misdemeanors. So, there's gun nuts and then there's wacko gun nuts. |
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Subject: RE: BS: American 'Can't do'... From: GUEST Date: 24 Dec 12 - 11:40 AM And, there's the first amendment. |
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Subject: RE: BS: American 'Can't do'... From: Elmore Date: 24 Dec 12 - 11:56 AM And, there's big shots(sorry} in the NRA prostituting themselves for the gun manufacturers. |
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Subject: RE: BS: American 'Can't do'... From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 24 Dec 12 - 12:14 PM It's not that the gun-nuts are in any way a majority, but they're a big enough slice of the electoral pie to guarantee that a Republican legislator is going to toe the NRA party line. The gun-nuts may be only 10%* of the consistently Republican voting electorate but that 10% is the winning margin in many elections. No gun-nut is going to vote for a Democrat, but no Republican politician is going to risk pissing him off enough that he doesn't vote at all. * 10% is just a toss-out figure. I have no idea what it really is. |
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Subject: RE: BS: American 'Can't do'... From: GUEST,kendall Date: 24 Dec 12 - 03:56 PM My Senator and my rep. to the house know how I feel about automatic weapons, how about yours? |
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Subject: RE: BS: American 'Can't do'... From: gnu Date: 24 Dec 12 - 06:13 PM Kendall... "What if it turns out that the gun nuts are in the majority?" IF they are, CHANGE it! CAN do. CAN'T do is unaccptable. Am I just being a Canuck here? |
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Subject: RE: BS: American 'Can't do'... From: kendall Date: 24 Dec 12 - 07:37 PM Change it? How? |
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Subject: RE: BS: American 'Can't do'... From: GUEST,999 Date: 24 Dec 12 - 11:40 PM "We are being shot at. Multiple firemen shot, I am shot. I think it's an assault rifle. We have multiple firemen down, working fire ... I'm pretty sure we have 2 DOAs in the street ... I am under cover of the fire truck which I have tried to move down the street, which has crashed. I am concerned about leaving the safe area I'm in, trying to move down the street, but I need immediate EMS ... I am struck in the lower back and lower leg, both can be deadly so I need immediate EMS ... The two victims hit have not moved since they've been struck." The full radio transmissions including the 911 dispatcher. (The firefighter who sent that call is #125 for radio use.) This is one cool dude! |
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Subject: RE: BS: American 'Can't do'... From: number 6 Date: 24 Dec 12 - 11:50 PM More than 31,000 Americans have signed a petition calling for British TV host Piers Morgan to be deported. Piers Morgan: Thousands petition for deportation It seems the pro-gunners are organized and speaking loudly ... why can't the advocates for gun control take more action, organize and speak louder ... instead of whining against the NRA and the government. I'm with ya gnu, ... and yes, another Canuck demanding action for gun control in the U.S. biLL |
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans sure as hell can, and will! From: GUEST,999 Date: 24 Dec 12 - 11:51 PM I think America will ban automatic and semiautomatic assault rifles. Even the half of congress that received election cash from the NRA will have to back away from the party line because if they're up for reelection in 2014, they won't get the usual votes. They will go by-by. By refusing the NRA gambit and supporting the ban they can at least look concerned for their electorate while holding sacrosanct the Second Amendment. What the USA will do about those already in people's possession I don't know. |
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Subject: RE: BS: American 'Can't do'... From: kendall Date: 25 Dec 12 - 07:55 AM If we would stop minding other people's business and starting wars on our credit card, we could afford to buy those assault rifles. I also told my Republican Senator to ban them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: American 'Can't do'... From: dick greenhaus Date: 25 Dec 12 - 11:13 PM Just what is an assault rifle? |
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Subject: RE: BS: American 'Can't do'... (gun control) From: Joe Offer Date: 26 Dec 12 - 02:52 AM That's a problem, Dick. If you see an assault weapon, you know right away that's what it is. It looks like it's meant to kill people at close or medium range, and it doesn't look like it would be accurate enough for long-range shooting by hunters. Look at the Bushmaster Website - you can tell right off that those are assault weapons. Trouble is, how do you come up with a definition that people can't weasel around? I think these are the gun control restrictions we need:
If people want to keep and use firearms on their own property or place of business, I think that arguably a legitimate use - although I don't like it. I don't think that civilians should have to carry firearms in areas where other people are likely to be. Leave that to sworn law enforcement officers. Yes, I know gun owners will disagree, but my feeling is that they threaten my safety, and they have no right to do that outside their own property. Doesn't my safety supersede their wish to carry firearms? -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: American 'Can't do'... (gun control) From: Richard Bridge Date: 26 Dec 12 - 04:07 AM That still does not go far enough, Joe. There should be strict storage regulations (like in the UK). There is no legitimate use (save law enforcement) for a pistol. It's not accurate enough to hunt with. It's only purpose is to kill or injure (or threaten) another human. The exception is target shooting AT A LICENSED and rigidly controlled target range. Like the UK. There is no legitimate use for concealed carrying. Firearms should only be transported in such a way that they are not readily available for use. There is no legitimate reason to carry a loaded rifle anywhere except for pest control or licensed hunting (on own land, the land of another who has given written permission, or registered and monitored hunting grounds. |
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Subject: RE: BS: American 'Can't do'... (gun control) From: GUEST,999 Date: 26 Dec 12 - 04:46 AM "define and then prohibit assault weapons" How 'bout semi auto and full auto weapons? |
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Subject: RE: BS: American 'Can't do'... (gun control) From: Bobert Date: 26 Dec 12 - 08:25 AM Fully automatic guns are outlawed, brucie... Semi-automatics are legal, be they pistols or rifles... The point here has more to do with the number of rounds and the type of ammunition than the weapon itself... The bullets that are being sold for the AR15 are designed to do as much damage as they can... They are similar to those fired in war by M16s and have no place in civilized society... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: American 'Can't do'... (gun control) From: GUEST,999 Date: 26 Dec 12 - 10:02 AM I am aware that fully automatics have been banned. I am also aware that for a few bucks a guy can buy a conversion kit and turn a semi into an auto in short order. I likely know as much about firearms as you do. So relax a bit. |
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Subject: RE: BS: American 'Can't do'... (gun control) From: GUEST,Don Wise Date: 26 Dec 12 - 10:06 AM Bobert- I think you forgot to add the argument killer," We can't do...........'cos it's unamerican!" |
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Subject: RE: BS: American 'Can't do'... (gun control) From: beardedbruce Date: 26 Dec 12 - 11:14 AM " The bullets that are being sold for the AR15 are designed to do as much damage as they can... They are similar to those fired in war by M16s and have no place in civilized society..." Point of fact- the military rounds are solid point, and designed to NOT fragment- International law. They may tumble, but are designed to exit in one piece. They figured out it takes 4 men to bury a body, and 20 to care for a wounded The ones used for hunting are hollow or lead pointed, deigned to expand or fragment, killing more effectively and not leaving a wounded animal in pain. So much for "civilized.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: American 'Can't do'... (gun control) From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 26 Dec 12 - 12:11 PM The idea behind using metal-jacketed bullets in combat is to limit the severity of wounds when a shot isn't deadly. A bullet to the head, heart, or any other vital spot is going to kill whether the bullet is jacketed or expanding. But a shot to, say, the thigh from a jacketed bullet is going to do far less damage than the same shot from a hollow-point. The exit wound from a jacketed bullet is about the same size as the entrance wound, but the exit wound from an expanding bullet is several times larger. The logic for using expanding bullets for hunting is that if a shot doesn't immediately kill the animal, it will do enough damage to disable it quickly so it can be finished off. The last thing an ethical hunter wants to do is wound an animal and have it still be capable of running far enough away that it can't be tracked down. The most humane thing to do for a wounded human is to try and insure that damage from the wound is minimal so he can be treated. The most humane thing to do for a wounded deer is to try and insure that damage from the wound is maximal. Nobody's going to call an ambulance for a wounded deer. He's either going to collapse soon enough that the hunter can finish killing him or he's going to run beyond the hunter's tracking range, lie down, and slowly bleed to death. The only time expanding bullets are legally used aginst humans is by police. The use them because jacketed bullets can pass through a targeted individual's body and still have enough velocity to kill someone else in the line of fire. |
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Subject: RE: BS: American 'Can't do'... (gun control) From: gnu Date: 26 Dec 12 - 04:43 PM BWL... good explanation. But, ya left out one point. It's true that soldiers should be wounded and not killed (fuckin strange to say such a terrible thing) but ya also want a soldier wounded rather than killed because it takes two + soldiers to care for a wounded soldier, thus taxing the resources of an enemy. Like I said... all of that sounds absolutely terrible... but it's the way it is. Hopefully, someday, we can have no need to discuss any of it. |
