BS: Healthier chicken?

Subject: BS: Healthier chicken?
From: Ed T
Date: 04 Jan 13 - 07:07 AM

There is a clear demand for healthier chickens (and produce) on our plates. This initiative may have potential to reduce antibotic use in food?


Oragano chicken

Subject: RE: BS: Healthier chicken?
From: ranger1
Date: 04 Jan 13 - 07:11 AM

How about we just do away with factory farms?

Subject: RE: BS: Healthier chicken?
From: Ed T
Date: 04 Jan 13 - 07:26 AM

Unfortunately, the way some big food retailers (food stores) buy is through large sources, versus small producers. This reinforces the factory-farm model.

Locally we have two main supermarket chains. One will only buy from producers who can supply all of it's stores. The other allows it's stores to purchase products from small suppliers.

There are a few small meat/produce markets. And there is much marketing talk about buying local and from small producers. But, mMost of the small outlets do not do well at getting and keeping regular customers, as many people seem to prefer to purchase all their food at one source, often a large supermarket. Possibly price is also a factor?

Subject: RE: BS: Healthier chicken?
From: Charmion
Date: 04 Jan 13 - 12:45 PM

Price is always a factor, but I believe the most influential factors are time and availability.

If I did all our grocery shopping at one supermarket (the one that does not buy from small suppliers), I would save myself a great deal of driving, looking for parking, and hiking around snow-clogged streets and/or parking lots. Of course, if I did that, we would eat only what the supermarket sells, such as bland, unripe strawberries from California, even in July, and flabby, greasy chickens that just don't taste of anything much in particular. I can take the time to go to the market and the specialty butcher who buys from local producers because I don't have other obligations to eat up what my job leaves of my life.

I also live in a big city with several farmers' markets (and more to come), surrounded by a significant agricultural area full of forward-looking, entrepreneurial farmers and market-gardeners who bring their products to market close to me. If I lived in, say, Timmins, Ontario, my options would be considerably less opulent -- in fact, it would be the supermarket or nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: Healthier chicken?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 04 Jan 13 - 01:35 PM

When I lived in both the NWT and northern Alberta the only store in town was the Northern Store. All meats were sold frozen--nothing fresh. A small beef roast (5 lbs) would run about $50. A chicken (3 lbs) was about $25. Of course, tomatoes, oranges, apples and bananas were $1 each. We ate lots of fish, caribou and moose. I would buy a whitefish for $5 or fresh caribou/moose for whatever the hunter and I decided on. Hunters' prices were fair. The same can't be said for the Northern. These days I buy as much local produce as possible because supermarkets gouge, imo. YMMV.

Subject: RE: BS: Healthier chicken?
From: gnu
Date: 04 Jan 13 - 02:04 PM

Since our local plant (family business) was bought and is being slowly shut down by Maple Leaf, our chickens are trucked to Quebec, processed and trucked back. $$$ But, I can buy Nfld chickens or local chicken legs for $1.99/#. Ed, I understand Larsen's will be shut down by Maple leaf too. We have a Farmer's market and small butcher shops but the prices are too high for me.

Local farms and some factory farms here sell to the guys that Maple Leaf bought out because they kept their first "plant" as a family business. None of their employees at that plant were unionized. The union at the large plant demanded wages that the owners just were not able to pay. They opened their books and said the union had a choice as the owners simply couldn't compete with bbig boys like maple leaf. The union chose to strike and towners sold out. Maple Leaf products still sell well here and it pisses me off.

Same thing happened with a huge bakery here. The family opened the books... the union went on strike...

Subject: RE: BS: Healthier chicken?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jan 13 - 05:10 AM

I work for one of the big Supermarket chains. We produce most of our own produce in one way or another and slaughter most of the livestock ourselves - With the exception being poultry! There are so many complications about keeping and slaughtering poultry it has been deemed uneconomic for us to do it.

One of the things that surprised me most was the cost of a chicken to us - You know those barbequed chickenns that smell so good as you wander round and you buy for, usualy, not much more than a couple of quid? The cost us around 30p each. Funnily enough it is something I had never bought anyway but if I had I think it would have put me off. How can that be economic for the producers or good for the chickens?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Healthier chicken?
From: sciencegeek
Date: 05 Jan 13 - 07:22 AM

this is the tip if the iceberg we call food production...

agribusiness has the lobbyists that help push through legislation that cripples the small producer and is often ignored by the big guys & the underfunded government regulators.

the only way most consumers can get access to affordable, healthy food is to locate local producers through CSAs ( community supported agriculture ) or farmers markets. not perfect or easy for many areas.

www.localharvest.org/

www.alotresults.com?farmers_market

you can Google around for local suppliers or you can grow your own, if that fits your circumstances. but we need to take back control of our food supply from big business & their political lackies.

Subject: RE: BS: Healthier chicken?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 05 Jan 13 - 10:06 AM

I have two friends who once filled in for two people who ran an organic chicken farm. My friends' baby got a salmonella infection. I saw her a few weeks later, and the baby was thin, silent and unresponsive. Luckily for her, her parents had education and health insurance.

Is it worth it to expose people in the chicken industry to the salmonella microbe?

Subject: RE: BS: Healthier chicken?
From: sciencegeek
Date: 06 Jan 13 - 04:59 AM

"Is it worth it to expose people in the chicken industry to the salmonella microbe?"

sorry, but there are very simple sanitary guidelines for such situations that include the same ones you see in the washrooms of every restaurant. WASH YOUR HANDS AND DON'T FORGET THE SOAP!

By your thinking no one should work store check outs because standing by doors that are constantly opening in all weather conditions, handling filthy money and being exposed to sick customers is a sure fire way to get sick yourself. I know this from personal experience.

Life is not safe. That's why ignorance can get you killed. Risks can be managed rationally... we do it all the time.

We overreact to unfamiliar situations. There are plenty of improvements I want to see in food production... but knee jerk reactions are not helpful.

Subject: RE: BS: Healthier chicken?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 06 Jan 13 - 05:23 AM

". . . but we need to take back control of our food supply from big business & their political lackies."

Indeed we do.

Subject: RE: BS: Healthier chicken?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Jan 13 - 07:33 AM

I know what you mean, sciencegeek, but all the same there are good reasons that we do not get involved in poultry 'production'. I don't know all the ins and outs I'm afraid but I am sure is it was as easy as just washing your hands we would not be averse to doing so and making an extra penny or two. But we don't and I believe it be due to over-complex legislature.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Healthier chicken?
From: Ed T
Date: 06 Jan 13 - 10:11 AM

An interesting local produce site:

what is good and what is bad?

Subject: RE: BS: Healthier chicken?
From: sciencegeek
Date: 06 Jan 13 - 07:30 PM

Poultry production has undergone incredible changes over the years... thanks to factory farming for eggs and meat. Especially with the absurd overuse of antibiotics and overcrowding of the birds.

But you also need to consider that one cow will dress out to around 800 pounds as opposed to one bird at less than 6 pounds. And those are the ones that make it to slaughter age. Stress is a big factor and can cause big time losses.

Your company probably decided that they didn't need the hassle. It's sure not my favorite chore.

Subject: RE: BS: Healthier chicken?
From: Ed T
Date: 06 Jan 13 - 09:35 PM

Chicken production info-USA

Subject: RE: BS: Healthier chicken?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 06 Jan 13 - 10:31 PM

Never had a healthy chicken. They were all dead before I ate 'em.

Subject: RE: BS: Healthier chicken?
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 07 Jan 13 - 10:59 AM

We are outnumbered - both numerically and by sheer biomass- by micro organisms. Most are benign, but then there are those that cause problems. As I said before... life is not safe - get used to it. And then get educated about it.

You can get salmonellosis by eating food contaminated with salmonella. This can happen in the following ways:

Food may be contaminated during food processing or food handling.

Food may become contaminated by the unwashed hands of an infected food handler. A frequent cause is a food handler who does not wash his or her hands with soap after using the bathroom.

Salmonella may also be found in the feces of some pets, especially those with diarrhea. You can become infected if you do not wash your hands after contact with these feces.

Reptiles, baby chicks and ducklings, and small rodents such as hamsters are particularly likely to carry Salmonella. You should always wash your hands immediately after handling one of these animals, even if the animal is healthy. Adults should also be careful that children wash their hands after handling reptiles, pet turtles, baby chicks or ducklings, or small rodents. **My update is that wild birds will also carry the pesky devils.**

Beef, poultry, milk, and eggs are most often infected with salmonella. But vegetables may also be contaminated. Contaminated foods usually look and smell normal.

Subject: RE: BS: Healthier chicken?
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 07 Jan 13 - 11:42 AM

I forgot a link

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/25/business/25vaccine.html?pagewanted=all

One area that I differ from many in the organic movement is the consideration of using vaccines and antibotics in case by case situations.

The organic movement ( a true oxymoronic name because some of the most toxic substances are organic molecules and how anyone can equate the presence of carbon in a molecules as any assurance of purity/safety or whatever fuzzy feeling is popular at the moment is beyond me) has some entrenched fears about modern science and technology that sound more like the fanatic Christian right than sane rational folks. imho - but feel free to take umbrage if that floats your boat.

Subject: RE: BS: Healthier chicken?
From: olddude
Date: 07 Jan 13 - 11:54 AM

Ya gotta find the ones that go to the gym on a regular basis :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Healthier chicken?
From: Ed T
Date: 07 Jan 13 - 08:28 PM

This is a story switch:
Yum Brands (parent of KFC), which is scheduled to report earnings on Feb. 4, defended the quality of its food in December following customer backlash when food regulators in China said certain samples of its KFC chicken contained unusually high levels of antibiotics.

The public relations blow to the company's image comes in the highly competitive, fast-growing Chinese market where KFC faces intense rivalry with Taiwanese-owned fried chicken chain Dico.



Read more: http://www.foxbusiness.com/industries/2013/01/07/yum-brands-cuts-outlook-citing-chicken-probe-backlash/#ixzz2GgPZqMor



Chinese chicken

Subject: RE: BS: Healthier chicken?
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 10 Jan 13 - 01:10 PM

couldn't remember the name of this link to grass fed/free range critters

http://www.eatwild.com/basics.html

I think that we need to concentrate on sustainable practices... and not just in food production... but in economics and the all the rest

Subject: RE: BS: Healthier chicken?
From: Ed T
Date: 10 Jan 13 - 01:40 PM

What they feed and expose chicken to when they are alive is one thing. But, it does not end there. After they are processed,there are a number of agents that can use, for a number of reasons. One is
Sodium tripolyphosphate. you can recognize it because when you wash the cuts, often you see foamy suds coming up in the bowl - and if you boil chicken, you see the foam forming on top.

They use it as a preservative, as a colourant and to keep the product moist (AKA, to increase product's weight through added water). Why does it foam like soap? Well (STPP) is used in a large variety of household cleaning products, (regular and compact laundry detergents and automatic dishwashing detergents, toilet cleaners, surface cleaners, and coffee urn cleaners, industrial cleaning processes and ceramics manufacture) - but it is also (FDA approved) in human foodstuffs, and animal feeds.

In addition to some scientific suspician that it may not be healthy for you, do you want to pay extra chicken price for added water? Does this help the consumer, or someone else?


Interesting reading:Food Safety News
International Food Additive Council

Subject: RE: BS: Healthier chicken?
From: gnu
Date: 10 Jan 13 - 05:24 PM

Dick... "Never had a healthy chicken. They were all dead before I ate 'em."

Hahahahahahahahaaa!

Subject: RE: BS: Healthier chicken?
From: Alaska Mike
Date: 11 Jan 13 - 05:00 AM

I've got chickens in a coop in my yard. I know exactly what they eat, I know they get to run around in the enclosed run during the day, and I know what their names are when we eat them. We have eggs that are incredibly fresh and tasty. We wash our hands EVERY time we handle them, and we have NEVER gotten sick from contact with them. We plan to raise a couple of turkeys this year. You are all invited to Thanksgiving dinner.

Subject: RE: BS: Healthier chicken?
From: sciencegeek
Date: 11 Jan 13 - 06:38 AM

Mike... I hope you go with a heritage breed of turkey... because the more common ones are dumber than stones and can get themselves dead in truly bizarre ways, lol